Help HELP
my cheese went bad...
>>7592164
>Help HELP
>my cheese went bad...
looks fine
don't fuss over the fuzz
>>7592174
but it started growing hair
is it alive ?
>>7592181
>but it started growing hair
>is it alive ?
deliciously alive maybe
>>7592181
not only is it alive, but it is reproducing.
>>7592164
>>7592181
toss that shit right now
the strain of fungus growing out which looks whiter is a penicillum which is good to eat, but the fibrous elongated stuff is a trichoderma and that my friend is not good for you or your kitchen
sanitize the whole kitchen after you throw it out since as you can see from the dark spots that shit has already sporulated and literally all your surroundings now belong to it
t. mycofriend
>>7592207
ignore this worrywort and enjoy that tasty cheese
>>7592164
I'm a queso maker in Cali op. That stuff you got right there is the best you can get. The Europeans wish they could get mold growth like that. Eat it or sell it for top dollar.
>>7592181
it's dead. don't you know hairs grow when you are dead?
>>7592181
holy SHIT
>>7592164
Just cut off all the mold and it should be good to go
Anon, I've got bad news for you; you've got tribbles.
>>7592244
Only for hard or semi-firm cheese. For soft cheese it's better to just toss it.
KILL IT
I
L
L
I
T
>>7592181
That's disgusting. Throw it away.
>>7592164
>>7592181
>fromage
It's probably fine, eat a slice and report back to us anon.
>>7592164
What's wrong with your rabbit?
OP, if you haven't been paying attention, everyone agrees it will be OK and you should eat it.
>>7592312
no some say I should throw it away
i think i will do that t.b.h
>>7592324
pussy
>>7592324
don't let the naysayers prevent you from enjoying some wonderful aged cheese
>>7592164
If anything in my house has mold on it, I throw it the fuck out. Like this is something that you shouldn't even need to ask a weeb board about.
>>7592301
it's square, duh
>>7592337
if you were here , I'd dare you to take a lick of it
>>7592342
would you rather suck a dick or lick it?
>>7592344
depends , it could be a very feminine penis , and i could be extremley intoxicated
no homo
>>7592164
Cut it in half, I want to see the insides.
>>7592356
This.
>>7592164
Eat it. This is when the cheese is at its absolute peak in flavor. Ignore these fucking idiots, the type of mold that grows on cheese isn't pathogenic, in fact it actually has antimicrobial properties that are good for your immune system.
>>7592164
it looks cute
Nigga grind that shit with water and inject it into yourself
You made yourself some penicillin. Free antibiotics nigga, should sell it to your neighbors for a good penny
>>7592207
>the strain of fungus growing out which looks whiter is a penicillum which is good to eat, but the fibrous elongated stuff is a trichoderma and that my friend is not good for you or your kitchen
The white fuzzy mould is definitely a Penicillium but the long fibrous mould is clearly a Mucor species ant not a Trichoderma. You can see the black sporangia at the apices of the sporangiophores in the picture (they look like black pinheads). Mucor plumbeus is somewhat common on cheese and does not produce any mycotoxins as far as I know. Mucorales spp. are an important component of aging meats.
And don't eat unknown Penicillia, it's not a good idea because you do not know what secondary metabolites it is pumping into your food. Although some mycotoxins like PR toxin are detoxified or inhibited on dairy substrates, you don't want to take a risk.
Some people might find that interesting: Penicillium roqueforti, used to make Roguefort cheese, is relatively harmless in cheese but produces nasty toxins on other substrates like hay. There have been cases of goats being killed from eating P. roqueforti contaminated hay.
>>7592429
10/10
>>7592429
highly rating this post, it was worth staying up late
>>7592429
informative as fuck; thanks for taking the time to type all that up.
It's kind of cute. I want to pet it's fur. You should keep it as a pet.
>>7592454
what would you name it ?
>>7592477
Brie.
>>7592429
i looked at the pictures of mucor and i just have to ask:
i microscoped a fungus found at home and it looked kind of similar only the 'sporangia came in pairs like on my extremely fabulous drawing here, like a v sign connected at base
maybe you know, what family it could belong
it's not important, i'm just curious :D
>>7592521
Looks like rhizopus.
>>7592437
>>7592446
>>7592452
Thanks guys. You wouldn't want to meet me IRL - if the topic of mould/mycology comes up I'll talk your ear off.
>>7592521
What was it growing on? It sounds like Rhizopus, a species related to Mucor (same family). Rhizopus also have "rhizoids" or root-like structures at the base, but you may not see these depending how the specimen was prepared.
>>7592429
but can it cure my gonorrhea?
>>7592597
Probably not, especially if you're rocking an antibiotic-resistant strain.
I couldn't say for sure without looking at it through a microscope, and even then it may need sequencing to be sure, but if it is something like Penicillium commune it produces some good metabolites but nothing that would knock out your STD.
>>7592603
haha maybe.... And you didn't believe in my mycological background :)
>>7592164
ITT: stupid Americans who don't know good cheese
Elite Frenchman here. What we have here is a classic tale of Americans not understanding cheese culture
American altitudes are so well adapted for cheese growth that if the cheese industry of france was applied to the untied states, cheese profits would soar through the roof. In fact I've been on many a trip to Wisconsin and Vermont; cheese perceptions are a lot more liberal in these states
That "mold" as you call it is nothing less that beautiful white floss, as we call it in France. It's noted for being exceptionally hard to cultivate, and you've done it by accident in your fridge!
Enjoy it with a nice bottle of merlot with butter crackers, OP, or bag it up and sell it to your local street gypsie. Either way it's too exquisite to waste my American friend. Perhaps spread on a burger may be a fitting end to such a delicacy.
>>7592670
>exceptionally hard to cultivate
anon pls a piece of camembert smear on behind and insert baguette
it is incredibly easy to cultivate
>>7592670
This is so cool! An actual French person commenting on our blog! I have some fuzzy-looking cheese in the fridge and I'll try out your recommendation. Thnx! -Marge
How do you know a French person has been in your house?
Your garbage cans are empty and your dog is pregnant.
>>7592670
>Doesn't actually post any source.
You think someone would just do that, go on the internet and tell lies?
>>7592341
Underrated post.
>>7592164
comb it
>>7592706
what a shitty joke
>>7592706
its not even funny. Try again ameritard
>>7592181
>>7592296
http://vocaroo.com/i/s11uFDrW4Lbr
hey once i overactivated my almonds and they also grew that hair with black tiny spots
>>7592429
say, if i fermented rice with salted water in room temperature, exposed to sunlight, what would i get?
i've been worried about unwanted byproducts produced by whatever grows in the rice, but it's just been such a good way for me to extend the shelf life that i keep doing it. the rice lasts 4 days instead of just 1 if i ferment, and i understand the fermentation reduces phytate content, as well as other things such as arsenic. the smell is somewhat cheesy, the taste just a tiny bit sour, but it seems other cultures take hold when i use non-chlorinated water, probably the less halophilic types. and the smell when that happens is horrible. like literal shit.
i've been doing this for about 6 months now with no ill effects. but would you happen to know anything about what's happening? the good or the bad? how does this carry over to my gut flora?
also, what do you know about peanuts and aflatoxins? is there any way to know from looking if they're contaminated? i'm in a third world country and my peanuts are not regulated by the FDA. i eat a lot.
oh and, how long do yogurt cultures last from production? like, is there a point where there's less than half the bacteria already even before the Best Before date?
>>7594573
Why are you fermenting rice?
This is the best thread on /ck/ right now.
>>7592181
Nah, it just went to the carnival and is enjoying some delicious cotton candy.
>>7592706
you call your wife a dog?
>>7594573
Bacillus cereus grows on cooked rice and causes food poisoning, but if you cook it and salt it enough, I think it'd be OK.
>>7594573
why the hell would you ferment rice
that just sounds disgusting to begin with
>>7592164
Sacre bleu, that's barely ripe! It's like you don't even into cuisine!
>>7592164
i swear i've seen this before
>>7592164
I'd eat that fur burger in a new york minute
>>7592340
this
>keeping sentient cheese
>>7592164
Nigga i dont know what the fuck that is but it not cheese and it alive
>>7594580
>>7594905
the most important part is that it extends how long it lasts. i don't ferment it after cooking (though you can) but before. this makes it last really long for some reason. i live in a tropical country so things rot really quickly here. now i don't have to make rice for every meal and just cook a sizable portion that can last 3-4 days. i eat maybe once a day, so my rice used to rot before i even got to eat it again.
i'm on a college budget, so wasting rice isn't cool.
minor benefits though still decent are reduction in phytate among other things. helps my diet.
>>7594735
you have some tiny bit of information but not a lot. selective environments are how fermentation produces bacteria that aren't pathogens. that's how you make cheese, soy sauce, wine, beer, coffee, cocoa, yoghurt, laphet, kefir, prosciutto, etc. these don't kill you because the microbes involved are not pathogens.
B. cereus will grow in a moist environment exposed to air. correct me if i'm wrong, but submerging rice in water eliminates oxygen exposure and creates an anaerobic environment which makes it a lot less viable for B. cereus as they are only facultative anaerobes. of course, there's still the top layer, but what grows at the top has not reached a stage of development where it can cause harm. it can also be skimmed and will be boiled. there's also competition between whatever else is growing.
the greatest evidence to the fact that B. cereus didn't grow is the lack of any food poisoning over the past 6 months. i would've been puking, nauseated, with diarrhea and fever. certainly, more precise tests exist but they are besides the point. functionally speaking, there's no B.cereus or any food poisoning microbes.
don't get me wrong, i'm not recommending this to anyone. i've just got a budget and have to take care of myself with what i've got. soon as i get back to my hometown, i stop doing it.
>>7597190
Couldn't you refrigerated or freeze the rice? I do that will my brown and wild rice cause it goes rancid.
>>7597194
college budget, and communal fridge. not a lot of space. personally, it tastes the same unless it's been fermenting a while, in which case, it's a bit sour. it's just the smell that's slightly off-putting.
refrigerating has its downsides. too long and it gets hard. can't refreeze either. it's also still exposed to air, despite the slower metabolism of bacterial growth, they'll still grow.
their are a lot of misconceptions about fermenting, but that's fine. wouldn't really want a hipster subculture around it, so keeping away the germophobes works well. for example, i think it was salmonella or e. coli, but canning actually provides a good environment for salmonella since there's really no oxygen anymore. not even surface exposure. although the heating process kills most of them, it also eliminates any other bacteria that can compete with it. add to that the heat-resistant spores that occasionally survive heating, and any dents on the can that provide ideal surfaces for them to grow, and you've ironically got an increased likelihood of food poisoning in comparison to fermenting things yourself.
fermentation was exactly how people used to preserve things before fridges were invented. i'm more or less in that situation right now.
>>7592712
You might actually be retarded
It's supposed to be like that OP. Real cheese is aged longer than most common cheeses and the long fibers are a sign of full maturity. The taste is hard to get used to but after a few blocks it grows on you. Like a good wine the longer it sits the better it will be. Personally I found that Kraft products are not very enjoyable unless properly aged. Usually a few months past experation date works.
>>7598451
you sound le cultured my friend.
>>7594573
>produces arsenic
I bet you did well in high school chemistry
>>7592429
What would inhibit mycotoxin production in dairy? Milk compounds or lowered pH after lactose has been fermented? Or some other cryptic phenomena?
Am I the only one who thinks mold looks really cool? It's pretty how it forms all the colors and textures. There's something very calming and peaceful looking at it.
>>7592164
>>7592181
Nice bro, bring it to my place. I've got just the bread for that...
>>7599171
Oh fuck, how do you grow crystal bread?
>>7599350
soak it in bleach and ammonia, use a straw to blow bubbles in it until it turns purple, then let it dry out
>>7599384
Mustard gas etc...
>>7599391
well at least you got the "bad for you" part right
but it's not mustard gas, anon
>>7599391
>Mustard gas etc...
delicious gas maybe
>>7598707
I believe there are many reasons some mycotoxins are not produced in significant amounts in cheese: lack of carbohydrates required for mycotoxin production, ripening temperature, atmospheric O2, salt concentration, etc. that inhibits mycotoxin production,
I don't think it has been elucidated or anything and is probably the result of various biotic and abiotic factors. Nutritional value of the substrate (e.g.: cheese versus hay) is definitely a big factor.
There have been quite a few papers published on this, try searching "cheese" and "mycotoxin" in Google Scholar. PR toxin (PR = Penicillium roqueforti) is one of the big ones that have been studied.
It's kind of amazing that these things are less toxic on cheeses, because we would probably never have been able to correlate illnesses or premature deaths in the past even if they were resulting from mycotoxin exposure due to cheese consumption. One of those weird flukes I guess...
Although some mycotoxins, such as aflatoxin, can be "spread" via milk, e.g.: a cow eats contaminated hay and the toxin goes through the milk.
>>7599674
>Nutritional value of the substrate (e.g.: cheese versus hay) is definitely a big factor.
You mean hay is such a poor substrate that molds produce mycotoxins to defend themselves? Excuse my colloquial amateurish language.
Also, do you know of any low tech means to detect mycotoxins? I know four aflatoxins are fluorescent under UV light: 2 are blue and 2 are green.
I wonder if it would be possible to grow edible molds on seeds by applying selective conditions (pH, salinity, aw, temp... ) or if we should stick to koji and tempeh.
>>7598592
Yeah, it's great when you get there.
>>7600388
I believe it more like the hay (or other carbohydrate or maybe cellulose-rich substrates) provides a good nutritional profile that promotes the production of certain secondary metabolites. It is also possible that something in these substrates promotes production on a genetic level, e.g.: it turns on genes responsible for production.
There are a lot of papers on this and I don't know much about mycotoxins. For example, adding corn extract increased PR toxins in this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC183623/
I grow a lot of fungi in culture. My go to media are malt extract agar MEA) and cornmeal agar (CMA). Lots of plant-associated fungi are sterile on MEA, but if you put them on CMA or add sterilized plant tissue/filter paper to the MEA cultures then they start to develop reproductive structures. I think it's a combination of nutrition and the fungus "thinking" it is in a natural habitat (e.g.: a plant leaf) because of the presence of cellulose. Natural light often helps too.
I am not aware of any low tech ways to detect mycotoxins. I bet there are people working on this, because it's a huge issue in developing countries (e.g.: peanuts in Africa) and detection/surveillance is costly.
Whenever people bitch about taxes I tell them about this aspect of food security versus other countries and they usually acquiesce that *some* parts of the federal gov. are necessary.
2012 was a really bad year in America for aflatoxin in corn, with a large portion of the harvest unusable. I forget the exact number, but it cost like $1.5 billion. Most people were unaware.
I'd stick to tried-and-tested moulds... you don't want to test novel ones on yourself. The effects are often not acute, so you may not notice until it is too late.
>>7600875
Thanks a lot, it's a pleasure to read your posts. What would you advise to the interested reader on fungus and moulds microbiology?
Holy crap, it turned into a bunny rabbit.
>>7600960
Off the top of my head:
http://mycology.cornell.edu/
http://website.nbm-mnb.ca/mycologywebpages/MycologyWebPages.html
http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/
In terms of books, some of these may be a bit too academic but worth looking into:
Introduction to Fungi by Webster
The Fifth Kingdom by Bryce Kendrick
Mycelium Running by Paul Stamets
Introduction to Food- and Airborne Fungi by Samson et. al. (good for identifying moulds with a microscope)
I have been meaning to build a website/blog the last few years. I often collect interesting things outside or in my home and I think people would get a kick out of seeing these fungi under the microscope, the process of sequencing them, a bit of natural history, etc. Plus, a lot of the better websites (e.g.: Malloch, Tom Volk) have great info but are hard to navigate or very old school. I'd like to build on that.
If you have any more questions, ask away. It's a really great field/group of organisms. The funny thing is they are so important but people go their entire lives without knowing a thing about them; I can't recall learning a thing about fungi in high school.
>>7592181
This thread is dead and I know fungus guy probably isn't still around but I'm super curious..
What would happen to your body say if you ate, insuffalated, or injected that hair like "sporangiophores" or whatever the hell they're called.
>tfw there's probably mold growing in my car right now
I'd like to eat that cheese
>>7602017
>What would happen to your body say if you ate, insuffalated, or injected that hair like "sporangiophores" or whatever the hell they're called.
We inhale lots and lots of spores in our homes and outside. The spore count is particularly high in the fall.
If you have a functioning immune system, the inhaling spores belonging to 99.9..% of fungal species will no affect. Most are incapable of growing in your body, primarily due to the high body temperature in mammals. If you can access this paper check it out, it's really cool, even the abstract is of interest: http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/200/10/1623.full
If you are immunocompromised (on chemotherapy, immunosuppressants, steroids, AIDS, uncontrolled diabetes, etc.) it is a whole different story.
Ever seen that "man without a face" story (Mark Tatum)? He had a pervasive fungal infection in his sinuses caused by a Mucor species. Guess what is on OP's cheese?
Aspergillus fumigatus, which is probably in your house right now, can grow at high temperatures and is particularly nasty in immunocompromised patients. One study found that deaths in marrow transplantees/cancer patients due to aspergilliosis spiked after the hospital ducts were cleaned. Workers were basically disturbing settled spores and the patients inhaled them and game over.
On a related note: true pathogenic fungi often exhibit thermal dimorphism. Basically, they grow as filamentous hyphae but turn into a yeast at higher temperatures, often 37 C (our body temperature)! This allows them to circulate around your body and increase the chance of infection.
In short, stay healthy and you will never have to worry. And avoid bat/bird feces or blastomycosis hot spots.
And keep in mind systemic fungal infections are very hard to treat, there are few antifungal medications available, and antifungal resistance is increasing :)
>>7602182
Just wanted to say thanks for that information fungusbro
>>7592207
A couple things
>trich is green
>there are trich spores everywhere anyways (how did that trich get there?)
Ur dumb
>>7602182
Based fungusbro
>>7592164
It must return to its homeworld.
>>7602182
when my family bought our new house the air felt so thick and I personally felt really dizzy and sick after minutes of being inside it. They thought I was just being a baby, however we later learned the air was in fact highly contaminated with spores.
When we had someone come in to check out the air vents he found the worst infestation he had ever seen, literal the air vents and especially the filter was wall to wall mushrooms, big ass mushrooms too, looked like the side of a tree.
how did it get so bad?
well he tells us you see, this air filter is a temporary one that is supposed to be replaced within 3 months which they would put in when the house was being built. This particular house was built in the 1960s
also found a bag of weed in the closet
>>7592164
Go ahead and enjoy your bad cheese waifu, OP. She wants it
>>7603054
[spoiler]thanks a fucking lot I have a fucking cheese waifu now you piece of botulism filled cheese curd[/spoiler]
>>7594313
what the fuck it is too late for this shit for me
>>7603461
That's good
>>7603604
>>7603607
Why'd you make it smaller, anon?
>>7603617
I thought the 1500x1500 was too big so I resized it
>>7592181
Your cheese so old it grew a beard nigga
>>7601328
>Introduction to Food- And Airborne Fungi 7th Edition
>2 Used from $1,920.97
I'll definetly look into your kind suggestions, probably more in web-based ones, thanks a lot. I'd be happy to follow your website/blog when you're done.
As for tried-and-tested moulds on vegetal-based substrates I think I'll follow http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/15715/InTech-Fermented_tofu_tofuyo.pdf
http://www.soyinfocenter.com/books/149
The fact they 'milk' soy beans and ferment tofu curds instead of whole beans over long periods reminds me a lot of what you said earlier about the fungus thinking it is at home or not.
>>7601328
>If you have any more questions, ask away.
Could you correct me here >>7594573 on anything I'm getting wrong? Unless you're strictly on fungi. I get that it's pretty much random microbes taking hold when you're not in a lab but is there anything you can predict from it? Would you say the dangers of any unforeseen toxins make it a bad idea? Or am I just being retarded. I've made sauerkraut before without any trouble.
There are white flecks that appear at the top, but what I've read from secondary sources is that they're harmless spores from fungi that can make use of the oxygen exposed. Since the rice is submerged, they can't get to that. Now I'm wondering if I should increase salinity and acidity to reduce the likelihood of anything I don't want growing. So far it's been fine though.
>>7592603
>not acquiring doctorate level knowledge on the spot for every topic that pop up on this singaporean woodcarving board to impress people
>>7592429
nigga how do we know you ain't bullshitting?
but if that's bullshit it's quality one, props
>>7604181
>random microbes
Not him, but in anaerobic and saline condition, on a raw (non-sterilized) substrate, you are most likely growing lactic acid bacteria, a bit like in sauerkraut. They are harmless. They "eat" simple sugars and acidify the medium on their own, which helps to preserve food.
Do you know kichk el-foukara? It's a lebanese fermented product made of bulgur, water and salt. You mix it once a day during two weeks so that molds dont grow. Then you season it (cumin, oregano... ) and preserve it under oil. It tastes very close to goat cheese. I'm not surprised you get cheesy flavors.
Microbial ecology especially in food is fascinating. From what I understand, bacteria, yeasts and fungi are at war with their microbiological arsenal. If you grow one, it will defend itself from the others.
>>7604293
So I guess it is probably some species of lactobacillus. That's a bit reassuring. I like how they raise the acidity on their own when they convert sugars into lactate, making it harder for other microbes to grow. Eventually they raise the acidity so high that they kill themselves, leaving room for new microbes to take hold. I learned that to get certain flavors of sauerkraut, you have to let them go through specific stages of succession, with different microbes producing different flavors as they fight to survive.
Ahh, so that's why mixing is important. Is it because it disturbs the film? I'm guessing the oil is to remove oxygen exposure.
SCOBY are pretty neat. Even if you take each and every species of bacteria and yeast individually then put them together, they won't form a community. It's like some ideal environment just happened by chance so they'd work together. It also gives a lot of meaning to the word "culture" since now you have families passing down their ferments from generation to generation, each with their own distinct flavors.
I'm interested in microbes and their effects in immune systems. I haven't picked it up, but I'm reading Missing Microbes by Martin Blaser. I dunno how credible the idea is or how well you can apply it to yourself, but it's interesting. I also like Sandor Katz. He's pretty alright.
>>7604429
>I'm interested in microbes and their effects in immune systems
Read 'The Inside Story of Our Body's Most Underrated Organ' from Giulia Enders. What she tells in this book should be common knowledge.
>>7604455
*It's 'Gut, The Inside Story of Our Body's Most Underrated Organ'
My bad
>>7592429
I come on to 4chan to learn shit I would never put the effort in for to learn in the first place. Quality post
>>7604455
Interesting. Done any reference checks on her? Might just be those types who wanna make a buck.
Actually, just did some. Looks like the book's following the same lines as Missing Microbes. Both authors seem to have decent credentials. I'll get to reading.
>>7592477
Cheesy McCheeseface
>>7604568
What? You've actually eaten the cheese?
>>7604568
Oh God. Don't go to the hospital or else everyone will know you're an idiot.
>>7604568
R.I.P
>>7592590
Actually, this is probably more /sci/ related but what do you think of the claims that mold and fungi are better at breaking down hydrocarbon chains in say, oil spills, than chemical or other forms of biological agents?
>>7592164
Uncultured whore. In La France this is a quality ripe cheese fit for a president (no King cause we a republic now). Look up roquefort - cheese with mold from caves. This is even better tasting. Pair with a full bodied Bordeaux wine
>>7604568
Pics or it didnt happen
>>7592164
Aw FUCK!!! Spores!!! Nice knowing postingwith you OP!
This thread was a wild ride
>>7592164
Cut it in half OP. Lets see a crossection
>>7592276
... how old are you?
>>7592590
Mycoguru, I have a question. What would be the best strain of mould or fungi to introduce to compost to have it better decompose and extract nutrients while not making the compost poisonous?
>>7592429
Wow nerd alert
>>7599391
You just need a long enough straw.
>>7594313
>http://vocaroo.com/i/s11uFDrW4Lbr
>>7592164
nice
>>7598451
>after a few blocks it grows on you
The circle of life(?)
>>7592164
for a moment it looked like pic related.
