So it turns out fat was never a problem, never caused obesity or heart disease. It was sugar all along.
Sugar is processed in the kidney and converted into fat where it enters the bloodstream.
The ideas that eating fat/saturated fat makes you obese or contributes to heart disease comes from 3 people back in the 50s, and have been largely unchallenged (and unproven) since then. Those ideas are incorrect
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin
So /ck/ are you obese? will you be trying to cut down on sugar if you are? will you keep eating the fatty foods that cavemen ate 10,000 years ago, and cut out the modern refined sugar that our bodies have yet to evolve to deal with?
Personally my metabolism is good enough I dont give a shit, I have a healthy BMI (not that that means much), and eat a shit load of chocolate regularly. I weight 75kg. Its interesting to see that what we have been told about fat is untrue.
>>7557045
Taking heroin is good for losing weight.
I'm pretty sure alcohol is laden with calories. without sufficient exercise, bad things will happen
>>7557045
This.
Sugar is a horrible evil until it is fermented into what is my daily diet.
As long as that is no longer considered sugar, I'm good to go.
>>7557041
>Sugar is processed in the kidney and converted into fat where it enters the bloodstream.
Are you sure about that anon?
I eat natural fruit sugars
>>7557069
I'm not the anon in the OP, but he is kind of half right. Fatty acid biosynthesis is a consequence of glucose metabolism but that isn't the whole picture. Acetyl CoA is the eventual product of glucose metabolism and it is also a starting material of fatty acid synthesis HOWEVER it is much more likely to be used for the citric acid cycle (you may have learned it as the Krebs cycle in school). Rate-limiting steps in the krebs cycle will determine which pathway the acetyl coA enters (your body is in constant need of energy and so the krebs cycle will the priority, if you have a surplus of energy/glucose - from eating too many calories - more will be used for fatty acid synthesis). Whether you eat fats or carbs your body will convert them both into glucose->fructose->acetyl coA. As a side note fatty acids aren't a bad thing, they are needed by every cell in your body for a whole host of functions, only in excess do they promote disease.
I hardly eat any fat and have never felt better, and I'm no longer a fat ass. I think you're full of it.
>>7557041
Obesity is caused by a surplus of calories, it doesn't matter if it's from sugar, saturated fat or broccoli. The reason saturated fat is linked with obesity is because it is calorie dense and provides no nutritional value beyond basic daily requirements (which most saturated fad laden foods would go beyond). The same applies to sugar.
The only biochemical reaction relevant to weight gain or loss is the use of the energy contained in the food. How your kidneys process it has no bearing on whether you'll gain weight or not, it's a matter of thermodynamics.
Humans are fully capable of eating refined sugar, the problem is that it's essentially nutritionally void and has no place in a healthy diet. And as for metabolism, there's only about a 150-200 calorie per day fluctuation in 99% of people (barring a few very rare medical conditions) so it's rarely, if ever, a factor in weight loss
>>7557041
>The ideas that eating fat/saturated fat makes you obese or contributes to heart disease comes from 3 people back in the 50s, and have been largely unchallenged
Saturated fat causing heart disease, diabetes, metabolic syndrome and hypercholesterolemia is actually scientific consensus backed by thousands of papers from all over the world spanning many decades. Dietary cholesterol increasing blood cholesterol is also scientific consensus because the best evidence shows that to be the case, whereas the worst evidence does not. Sugar being bad for health is scientific consensus for decades and constantly repeated in the media. So this "conspiracy" doesn't even exist outside of the mind of this tool of an author.
Also Gary Taubes and Peter Lustig are/were morons and that article is written by a fucking clown who clearly knows nothing about the scientific process. Yeah, I always get my science news from marketing consultants who write pop science garbage for soccer moms, why the fuck not.
>>7557098
So, I see you know your biochem, but since when did the kidney become the organ where sugars are metabolized?
Also, how do you like 2nd year med.school?
>>7557041
>Sugar is processed in the kidney
what?
calories in vs calories out is all thst matters. stop overeating = problem solved
>>7557041
Fuck yea! I've been paleo for 9 months now. Lost 60 pounds, feel great!
>>7557049
>alcohol is laden with calories
yes but ethanol isn't easily converted to fat by the body it's mostly just processed by the liver
beer will make you fat, hard liquor will not
>>7557207
>beer will make you fat, hard liquor will not
this is true, one of the best decisions I have ever made in my life was to stop drinking beer. I used to drink a 6 pack every night, its part of what kept me fat.
Sugar is in fucking everything.
I crave the stuff like nothing else, and I don't have to go far to get more.
Guarantee if I cut all sugar out of my diet, I'd lose weight. Sugar is in fucking everything though, and my family would throw a fit. I would too, of course, because I'm addicted to sweet lady sucrose.
Fruits are fine imho, people who go on sugar tirades also lump in "human engineered froots" as another sin, but really it's a lot better than 90% of quick-grab foods.
>>7557212
Calories, you ignorant fuck head.
I try to eat a low carb, high fat diet. Lost 8 kg now with it already. Just leave out flour and starches and replace them with vegetables and fat.
It's really easy, you don't have to be hungry and you just lose weight all the time.
>>7557223
Sugar is in almost nothing I buy, you must be doing something wrong.
Sugar is not found in meat and fish, and lactose is less problematic than sucrose, fructose and glucose themselves. Vegetables and fruits contain some, but it's not an excessive amount in relation to how much of them you would actually eat. Nuts, seeds, grains, legumes and fats contain virtually none. If you buy anything besides these things, there's your problem.
This thread will probably get 300 replies and stay on the front page of /ck/ for a month, but fat and sugar aren't a binary. If you're trying to eat better, eat less of the parts of your meals with either one in them, and eat more fibrous vegetables, legumes, and lean meat.
Eat a fucking carrot, nigga.
>>7557041
fried shiet is saturated
>>7557041
Laaaaaaaaaaaate old news
>>7557041
Nutrition is such a fickle and fucked up science, I bet I can find something that refutes your point...
WALA
http://wkrn.com/2016/04/09/professor-loses-weight-on-junk-food-diet/
>Sugar is processed in the kidney and converted into fat
how
>>7557223
>Sugar is in fucking everything.
sure, in america
here we buy our food and sugar separately
>>7557436
where's that?
This isn't profound OP. But, I do think there should be a war on sugar. This refined substance was concocted in a lab during WW2, you're right, it is some synthetic man made shit that our biology doesn't cope with except adversely.
My problem is that they put it in EVERYTHING. We are partly to blame, no? Consumers love sweet shit, not bitter. Its in tomato soup, cereal, added to OJ, dehydrated fruits, pull pork or any grocery store prepared meats have tons in their sauces.
We dont' need sugar, can live without it and probably be in better weight range....its def not good for brain and we know mice prefer it over cocaine. so theres that.
There is a lot of consensus on what is good. Why do we discuss newspaper science and fads instead of the actual authorities?
As you can see, they don't care about inane macronutrient wars. e.g. fruit can be good sugar, nuts/seeds can be good fat.
>>7557444
At least in the UK my broccoli does not come with added sugar.
>>7557469
>My problem is that they put it in EVERYTHING
They don't put it in pic related. What else do you need?
>>7557122
>butter makes me smarter
Fucking kek
>>7557495
>Raw fish next to raw meat
>Fish not on ice
What kind of unforgivable fuckery is this?
Why would you shop there?
>>7557495
>raw meat sitting out in open air
>veggies sitting on top of it
>some kid comes by and coughs all over it
what fucking shithole country is this? might as well be outside unrefrigerated with flies all over it from a street vendor
Sugar is definitely a major contributor to obesity, along with sedentary lifestyles.
Our forefathers weren't drinking 1% milk and cooking with margarine or Canola (tm) oil instead of butter. They weren't seeking out lean pieces of meat either.
I used to think that low fat = healthy, including all the gnarly low fat versions of real food. I started learning a lot more about cell metabolism and started becoming skeptical of marketing and label claims. Now I try to eat mostly unprocessed food for my meals enjoy anything else as a treat. I feel much healthier and my weight has stabilized for many years now.
Let me tell you this - I had so much fun going back and trying the un-fucked-with versions of foods I liked. After I realized low fat food was probably contributing to weight thanks to added sugar, I got to discover all kinds of fancy cheeses, full-fat greek yogurt, the joy of veggies cooked in bacon fat, and cooking in general.
>>7557510
Maybe because it's in a fridge genius. Fun fact: you can open and close glass cases
The bell peppers are what chefs and food prep professionals refer to as "garnish"
>>7557670
>know much about sanitation.
We know that raw fish should stay on ice even while in a refrigerator.
>>7557041
Actually, fat has been a problem too, but it's the lauded hydrogenated vegetable fats that have been giving the negative health consequences.
What about high fructose corn syrup? That shit is twice as bad as sugar.
I've been drinking vodka like water (and water like water) for a few years. I don't eat much generally, I just scoff down milk tea with sweeteners all day and try to fit some food in there somewhere. Am I gonna dead or obese soon /ck/?
Anyone who's not an ignorant chump knew fat wasn't a problem and that sugar, something that's normally pretty low in a diet shouldn't be consumed in the quantities we do.
>>7557660
I saw fat free half and half and my brain kicked into high gear trying to reason out what the fuck that means. Processed food is ridiculous.
>>7557495
These are whole foods. If you only buy whole foods then yes, there is no sugar. But if you cook/carmelize those carrots, beets, root vegetables then they will actually have much sugar.
>>7557122
Stop talking out of your ass. Anti-saturated fat is based on shit science. Anti-cholesterol is shit science. If you believe anything else you haven't been reading. You've just been regurgitating old fashioned rhetoric and feeling good about it.
>>7557041
>Sugar is processed in the kidney and converted into fat where it enters the bloodstream.
as a nurse, this statement could have not been any more retarded.
op kill yourself.
>>7557207
What about wine? Not Moscato or something, but dry wines.
>>7559765
Are you trying to imply that by cooking the vegetables you are adding sugar?
>>7559797
You convert complex carbohydrates into basic sugars instead of letting your body do it.
HFCS and soya derived carbs are feminizing the west
>>7559797
You're concentrating the small amount of sugar that is naturally present by boiling away most of the mass of the plant. One serving of caramelized onion does have more sugar than one serving of raw onion.
Don't play dumb.
>>7559806
Not really, just adjust the portion size
>The ideas that eating fat/saturated fat makes you obese or contributes to heart disease comes from 3 people back in the 50s, and have been largely unchallenged (and unproven) since then. Those ideas are incorrect
None of what you posted is true
>>7557041
Keep telling that to yourself fatty.
>>7557041
biochemist here, you're retarded. Have a nice day.
>>7557041
Literally everyone jumping on the sugar = poison bandwagon.
Everything in moderation people.
There is no need to substitute rice syrup or stevia for all sugar recipies, I actively encourage you not to do it.
Nothing tastes like real brown/white sugar, please do not play into the hands of the 'sugar conspiracy', just stop drinking so much soft drink and useless sugar products. Make a nice cake, giver half of it away etc.
>>7559519
Pretty sure it's non-fat milk, corn syrup, and some weird thickening additive. So healthy!
>Quit soda and sugary shit 8 months ago
>Lost 54 pounds
>Drink a shitton of craft beer and eat home made stuff
>Started drinking coffee black
>Still losing weight
>Mfw sugarfags
>>7560052
It's actually just regular milk, no added sugar whatsoever, and carrageenan.
>>7559881
Holy shit, those nutball sugar conspiracy theorist scientists are at it again! We can't stand for this left-wing propaganda. They thought their filthy, communist anthropogenic climate change and "round earth" theories would dissuade us true believers from the path of the self-righteous, but they were wrong. They can moderate my sugar out of my cold dead hands. The path to salvation is paved with sugar cubes, my brother! Can I get an Amen?
>>7559503
>Am I gonna dead or obese soon /ck/?
No, but I would be willing to bet you are skinny fat / will be.
>>7560070
Fuck you for making me clarify myself. I am 100% positive, with the absolute omnipotent certainty of God Himself, that fat-free half & half contains corn syrup.
![tumblr_mfb4rgKPLE1qe0zpoo1_500[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/KCkZAUu.png "tumblr_mfb4rgKPLE1qe0zpoo1_500[1].png")
>>7557237
I've been doing the same thing for almost a year and a half now, I’ve lost almost hundred pounds and I haven’t had to count calories or anything yet. I don’t fuckin play that carb shit anymore
>>7557098
>half right
means not right. Just like being "kinda right" or "right for me" or "looks right". It's science, not bargain with your mom for 2$ extra allowance.
>>7557472
>potato
>sparingly
there's literally nothing wrong with potatoes. stop eating them triple frieds with cream you fat fuck.
>>7560386
Notice all the things next to potatoes, like white breads and rice, pasta, and sugar. High glycemic carbs are a pretty lousy source of energy.
>>7559881
>stop drinking so much soft drink and useless sugar products.
But in America it's more than that. Check the ingredients of honey nut cherrios, the second or third one is sugar. This is true of many products, so you have to actively go about avoiding it. Easiest method is to cook your own food and avoid buying processed shit from the interior aisles of the grocery store, because it will be loaded with shuga. I've NEVER been big on sugar and I've yet to gain weight in 8 years despite different levels of activity.
>>7557041
1 fruit or less a day
0g added sugar
Eat plenty of protein, fat, and fiber with your carbs
Stuff is the devil
>>7561277
Sugar is in vegetables too. So this demonization of fruits is silly to start
>>7557045
liquor pretty much puts a halt to your body using anything but the alcohols for energy which is how you have a tendency to get fat from drinking a lot of beer and eating while doing so.
>>7557041
the fat you eat is the fat you wear
sugar is stored in muscle and liver as glycogen then burned as body heat then finally 70% of the rest will be stored in case of a caloric surplus, FAT GET STORED IMMEDIATELY as body fat, 100% of it, in case of a caloric surplus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUWcgh5Ju9g
>>7561486
yet most fat you consume ends up getting shit out
>>7561486
Fat is the human body's favorite source of energy for fueling muscle activity and is crucial for cellular regeneration. It also moisturizes your body from the inside out which is why soybean and corn oil cause acne, joint pain, headaches, inflammation, and bowel problems.
And OP, it's the liver that converts sugar to glycogen.
>>7561542
the fat is absorbed by the small intestine. unlike fiber (perhaps things are mixed to you)
the fat you consume is stored on your fatass. take a biopsie of it and they'll tell you what kind of fat you like to eat. that's a scientific fact.
the meat and dairy industry is just doing too much propaganda to hide this truth (like OP)
>>7561566
>Fat is the human body's favorite source of energy
NOPE
either you are a paid shill from the meat/egg/dairy industry or you are ignorant when it comes to biology.
the human body runs on carbs (sugar). in its standard mode, and runs on ketons (from fat) in starvation mode. that's nutrition 101.
that's why athletes load their muscles with pasta(sugar), the body is very efficient at burning sugar for energy. fat however is preferably stored as body fat for the eventual tough winter.
i'm not saying fats like omega-3 aren't essential, but they shouldn't be the main calories source. (that should be carbs)
eat good fats for body maintenance not as energy source.
>>7561566
Soy and corn oil are inflammatory because they are extremely high in omega-6, as many oils are. It is mainstream nutritional advice to avoid oils rich in omega-6 (sunflower, corn, soy, sesame), and to use oils high in oleic acid and omega-3 (i.e. olive, canola, high-oleic sunflower, high-oleic safflower) - for high temperatures all polyunsaturated fats should be low because they're heat-labile.
>>7561607
Please provide a scientific source that states that dietary fat gets stored as body fat, Mr. Nutrition 101.
You'll take my barbecue sauce when you pry it from my cold fat dead fingers!
>>7561689
here you go
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7598063
see the work of Dr Mcdougall, he has been publishing about this for 40 years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUWcgh5Ju9g
>>7561710
That's far too small of a sample size to measure variance. You were calling me a shill?
>>7561693
you'll take my heroine from my cold fingers as well. what's your point ?
meat/dairy internet defense plz go.
>>7561718
ok give me a study with even one person that say otherwise.
and see the fucking video.
>>7561693
>store bought sauce
whats the point of putting all that work into smoking if you're just going to fuck it up with brown corn syrup
>>7561718
It's mainstream medicine that body fat is composed of dietary fat. If you look at a person's body fat, it's going to be composed of the fatty acid that that person has been eating... makes sense. So in some people you find a lot of omega-6s, in other omega-3s, saturated, oleic and so. Fatty acids can be synthesized, but that doesn't typically happen outside of a very low fat diet. Metabolically there is a strong preference to use glucose immediately or store it as glycogen, rather than to synthesize fatty acids to store.
>>7561749
/thread
>>7561726
Here, have a metastudy.
http://www.foodandnutritionresearch.net/index.php/fnr/article/viewFile/1472/1340
>In short-term studies, a modest reduction in body weight is typically seen in individuals assigned to diets with a lower percentage of calories from fat. However, compensatory mechanisms appear to
operate because in studies lasting for 1 year or more, fat consumption within the range of 18
>>7561764
initiate le link war
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3516671/
>>7561764
>PseudoScience shite that isn't even relevant to the point i'm teaching you.
_____________________________
biology 101 : sugar is the body's prefered source of energy, it is literallt calories.
fat is effeciently stored as body fat in case of a calorie surplus.
_____________________________
see this shit above ^
that's what i'm trying to educate you here.
not why people get fat !
people get fat because they get the day's calories from the sugary foods. and then the fat they eat get stored directly in their fatasses because they are in a calorie surplus.
now if you don't eat fat and over eat on carbs you won't store that much fat because sugar is mainly stored in the liver and muscles as glycogen then when those are full it get burned as body heat, and then if all this is done already it is turned to fat via a calorie costly process that require 30% of it to be done.
* the human body is very efficient at storing excess fat as body fat.
* the human body is very inefficient at storing excess carbs as body fat.
>>7561837
*literally.
>>7561837
Now that you clarify, it seems as though we agree on many points. However, the link I cited isn't remotely pseudoscience, it's a metastudy that provides several measures of variance. How is it not relevant? You cited an article stating that 90-95% of dietary fat is converted to body fat and I cited one that provides much more evidence for the opposite conclusion. You're not "trying to teach" me anything, you're trying to weasel your way out of an argument.
>>7561890
the peer reviewed study i provided is a study that clearified how the human body deals with different sources of energy. they used a controlled random inputs and got the outputs for us.
the paragraphe you linked is not explaining how the body works (what we're discussing), it is using some data in a misleading way to prove that fat doesn't get you fat, which is true if you're not on a calorie surplus i agree, but that's just another topic. i can get all the data from keto diets (mostly fat) and write a similar text, but that doesn't prove shit and it is irrelevant to our topic.
go play else where, if you are too retarded to understand a mainstream scientific fact then i have no more time to waste on you.
>>7561918
The feeling is mutual
>>7561956
Nice comeback
>>7561486
It's too late for people like this guy. The lack of fat causes their brains to shrink, because they can't comprehend that the cholesterol they so desperately avoid is the very thing that forms their brain and is necessary for every cell in the body.
>>7561571
>russianchickenofproofs.gif
Citation Needed
>>7561978
your body produces all the cholesterol you need. (FACT)
enjoy your atherosclerosis.
>>7557069
Acetyl-coA is often diverted to lipogenesis because often time thee rate limiting steps have it converted to ketone bodies which makes blood more acidic. So that's probably why refined sugar leads to the wrong amount of FA synthesis
>>7557098
>Acetyl-coA is often diverted to lipogenesis because often time thee rate limiting steps have it converted to ketone bodies which makes blood more acidic. So that's probably why refined sugar leads to the wrong amount of FA synthesis
>>7561277
>1 fruit
yeah if you sit on your ass all day.
