Is raw honey worth the premium price?
Healthwise, for humans, all honey is nearly equivalent to high fructose corn syrup.
>>7530539
Yes.
Honey is like gold to me, I brew Mead all year round and am lucky to have a local seller who sells to me in 20L batches.
I didn't know there was such a thing as non-raw honey
>>7530539
if you like the taste and think it's worth it. you're asking a subjective question like it's objective.
any way you buy honey should support local farms, though, bees are important and local/organic bee husbandry is great for the ecosystem
>>7530556
Really? What did you think the pasteurization process was?
>>7530564
I thought it was restricted to high speed milk to be honest, fang.
>>7530546
This comment will go largely ignored.
>>7530560
It often really isn't...
>>7530573
Because it's untrue?
>>7530581
yes because its a load of bollocks.
Natural honey has so many health benefits.
>>7530539
propolis bro, propolis
>>7530585
It's all placebo. Sugar that does't come with fiber and associated nutrients is not good for humans.
>>7530630
But fiber is an anti-nutrient.
>>7530630
So the many different flavours I can easily detect in the many different floral honey's I've tried mean nothing, health wise?
>>7530556
When you harvest the honey, you have to put it in a heating machine to kill off the yeast, otherwise the honey will start to ferment (which isn't great)
No, but buying more expensive honeys from produced from specific locations are worth it. It can make a big difference when brewing mead.
Pic related. 40-year-old mead made from clover honey.
>>7530712
why is it being aged so long? and have you tried it? who originally started it?
>>7530718
Oh fuck, I mistyped. It's mead made from 40-year-old clover honey. The honey was apparently sitting in someone's house since the 70s.
>>7530585
>Natural honey has so many health benefits.
such as?
>>7530649
Honey mead....
Varietals are important. Where the honey was made is important.
There is nothing wrong with pasteurization, and everything right with it. There's nothing particularly wrong with raw honey, either. Maybe avoid raw foreign honey, as it could contain something your immune system has never encountered. Just don't fall for the unpasteurized milk bull shit. That's disgusting.
>>7530546
>americans actually buy products full of government subsidised high fructose corn syrup
>>7530635
Friendly reminder that this is completely correct and I have already provided the exact scientific explanation as to why it is true.
>>7530539
I like mine medium rare
>>7530539
>tfw grandfather was a beekeeper
buckwheat and basswood honey is to die for
>>7530914
>not drinking warm milk freshly squeezed from a cow
pleb
>>7530539
The bees are dying man, we are dying man. Don't you get it! It's not the zombie apocalypse it's the bees man! Save the fucking bees otherwise you are a retarted ass hat. The more honey we make the more we can do to up the population which causes flowerisation which we need to have bio diversity. Buying expensive honey is good for us because otherwise humans might go extinct.
>>7530638
Why would flavour be related to health?
Why is 4chan so fucking retarded? Raw honey is still better for you than pasteurized honey. This is the equivalent of those memetards who constantly spout the "fruit is bad for you because it has sugar" fuckwads. Literally kill yourselves.
>>7531111
How is it better?
>>7530539
no, its essentially just HFCS with a little pollen added
>>7531111
Quads of truth.
seriously though, /cl/ has to be the most retarded board on here except for /b/. So many spergs that don't know shit about what they are talking about trying to play experts all the while unironically discussing how awesome cup noodles are.
>What is pollen
>What are beneficial microbes
>>7531140
That like saying "if I just add a little pollen to my soda it is good for me now".
Sure this honey has a few healthy components in it, but it is still almost 99% HFCS
>>7531148
Enough.
>>7531136
And here comes another retard on the sped train.
HFCS:
>min 42% fructose
>rest glucose and water
>Plus industrial contaminants (including mercury in the past)
Honey:
"The carbohydrates present are the monosaccharides fructose (38.2%) and glucose (31%); and disaccharides (~9%) sucrose, maltose, isomaltose, maltulose, turanose and kojibiose. There are also some oligosaccharides present (4.2%), including erlose, theanderose and panose, formed from incomplete breakdown of the higher saccharides present in nectar and honeydew.
Proteins and Amino Acids
Honey contains a number of enzymes, including invertase, which converts sucrose to glucose and fructose; amylase, which breaks starch down into smaller units; glucose oxidase, which converts glucose to gluconolactone, which in turn yields gluconic acid and hydrogen peroxide; catalase, which breaks down the peroxide formed by glucose oxidase to water and oxygen; and acid phosphorylase, which removes inorganic phosphate from organic phosphates.
Honey also contains eighteen free amino acids, of which the most abundant is proline.
Vitamins, Minerals and Antioxidants
Honey contains trace amounts of the B vitamins riboflavin, niacin, folic acid, pantothenic acid and vitamin B6. It also contains ascorbic acid (vitamin C), and the minerals calcium, iron, zinc, potassium, phosphorous, magnesium, selenium, chromium and manganese.
The main group of antioxidants in honey are the flavonoids, of which one, pinocembrin, is unique to honey and bee propolis. Ascorbic acid, catalase and selenium are also antioxidants. Generally speaking, the darker the honey, the greater its antioxidising properties.
Other compounds
Honey also contains organic acids such as acetic, butanoic, formic, citric, succinic, lactic, malic, pyroglutamic and gluconic acids, and a number of aromatic acids."
But they are totally the same right faggot?
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/loveridge/index-page9.html
>>7531159
so they are both primarily mixtures of fructose and glucose?
Honey is just HFCS with some other stuff added, mostly other sugars which are no better for you than fructose and gloucose
>>7531148
>Nice strawman.
No one is saying eating globs of honey is good for you. But honey (raw honey), in general, is the healthiest sweetener you can use as it is biologically active and contains not only many important trace nutrients as I detailed below, but also the pollen which does in fact reduce allergy issues and increase immune strength provided the honey is local.
>>7531167
Another fag that thinks all sugars are metabolized the same.
https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S26/91/22K07/index.xml
>>7531167
"Basically the same (plus some other stuff)"
Yeah, kind of like how water and vinegar are basically the same, excluding the typical 5% acid found in vinegar right?
Certain types of Raw honey also have strong anti fungal and antibacterial qualities. It's excellent for wound healing, especially Manuka honey. It's popular in some hospitals to treat MRSA and wounds. It's the active leptospermum that helps it work so well.
>>7531188
I have a friend with Lyme disease that uses Manuka honey. Shit is fucking POTENT.
>>7531193
It's good stuff.
>>7531171
they are not metabolized the same, but they metabolized similarly and there is no evidence that the other sugars in honey in trace amounts are healthier than the fractional amounts of fructose/glucose they displace
>>7531169
Its not a strawman, its literally analogous to saying soda is healthy if you add a few mL of something that is healthy to it
>>7531188
>Certain types of Raw honey also have strong anti fungal and antibacterial qualities. It's excellent for wound healing
lol, why would you ever use honey instead of actual products designed for that usage?
The cheapest honey I can buy here, melts in boiling water, leaving no sweet taste.
Thats the point where the honey is too cheap for use in tea.
>>7531111
Fermented honey > Pasteurized honey > raw honey
But since Fermentation changes the taste? Yeah, there is a lot you can't use it for.
>>7531282
says the guy saying his sugar is healthy because it has small portion of sugars not present in HFCS in addition to the HFCS sugars. You must have an excellent grasp of food babe tier 'science'
>>7531279
The actual product isn't sticky.
So trying to make it sticky will in most cases ruin the properties you need for wound healing.
The entire point of using honey is that you don't need to make a weird mix of bandages, liquids and some paste. You just need the honey, and then something over it to avoid people touching it.
>>7531273
It is a strawman, because that is not what we are saying. No one said Honey was healthy. Only that it is not the same as HFCS and undeniably has more pluses than HFCS does. You are the person that introduced the word healthy into the mix.
It is the definition of a strawman argument.
furthermore you have failed to provide a single academic source for what you are saying while several of us have provided multiple that do not support what you are saying. You have no ground to stand on here.
>>7531288
I don't recall anyone saying it was outright "healthy", simply healthiER than HFCS.
>>7531291
>furthermore you have failed to provide a single academic source for what you are saying
You want me to post an academic source that states honey is mostly made of fructose and glucose?
>>7531288
"Hurr durr vinegar is no different than water! Just because vinegar has only 5$ different chemicals than water doesn't make it different durr!"
Perhaps speaking down to you like this will help you understand the stupidity of what you are saying better?
>>7531304
Post the source that says it's as "healthy" as honey since you keep harping on that.
Is there really a noticeable taste difference between supermarket honey and the more expensive raw honey?
All this shitposting, trolling, and arguing over honey.
You've outdone yourself, /ck/
>>7531288
I'll take Princeton scientists over you.
>>7531305
Your arguement would only work if water was bad for you and the argument was that adding a little acetic acid to suddenly made it not bad
The presence of acetic acid in no way makes the water present in the solution less like water, just as the addition of trace amounts of other sugars doesn't make the bulk of honey any less HFCS-like
>>7531314
Sure, I know it's Eurofag trolling but really, I can't help but try to correct it.
>>7531320
Did you even read the study? They were not comparing honey with HFCS. It is entirely unrelated to your argument
>>7531325
All surgars are the same.
>>7531326
No one is arguing all sugar is the same. The whole point is that honey is mostly the exact same sugars in the same ratio as HFCS, not that HFCS is metabolically equivalent to other forms of sugar
Unless you are trying to argue that adding trace amounts of other sugars makes you metabolize the fructose/glucose present in it differently, I don't really get what you are trying to say
>>7531321
>>7531321
As other have stated you are probably just a fucking Aussie shitposter. But man on the off chance you are not you have really outdone yourself with retardation this time.
Behold as several drops of a compound change contaminated water to potable water.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:CcdYcdW4siUJ:www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/emergency/09_202278-B_Make_Water_Safe_Flyer_508.pdf+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Anyway again, the only person making the retarded statement that soda+pollen is healthy is you.
>>7531321
Why is HFCS your equivalent to water? All sweeteners are "basically the same, with a few differences" you autist.
>>7531341
"Mostly the same"
you keep saying this. Again, I argue that vinegar is "mostly the same" as water. both are 95% H20. that 5% acetic acid probably really doesn't make THAT much of a difference anyway.
>>7531341
>whole article is how HFCS cause obesity even at the same calorie intake
Sure, guy. They're all the same.
>>7531342
>Behold as several drops of a compound change contaminated water to potable water.
Jesus fuck man, you are not changing the water, you are killing microbes in the water when you add bleach
>>7531306
I'm still waiting.
>>7531347
>both are 95% H20
um, water is 100% H2O
>>7531351
Are you really that stupid? Okay let me spell it out for you because you lack the mental capacity to process information at a higher level
"Both are at least 95% water, with vinegar containing an additional 5% acetic acid and water containing an additional 5% H20 because it is water".
Need me to help you with your math homework too?
>>7531347
>>7531348
How do you misunderstand this so badly? Adding chemicals to a solution dos not change the chemicals already present in the solution unless some reaction is taking place which is definitely not the case here.
Take for example if we took HFCS and added some 10% water to it, that wouldn't change how you metabolize the 90% remaining HFCS, just like with honey the addition of small amounts of other sugars and pollen does not change the fact that the vast majority of the solution is fructose/glucose that is metabolized just the same as any other fructose/glucose solution of a similar ratio
The Princeton news article about a study you posted (not sure why you do not post an actual study) very strongly suggests that honey would be worse for you that other non-HFCS sweeteners
>>7531351
water is full of trace minerals you dumb fuck.
>>7531362
You're the guy that said it makes no difference healthwise between honey and HFCS. So, you admit that there is a difference now? Great. That's all I wanted. :^)
>>7531367
water by definition is H2O. It is a good solvent and many things can dissolve in it, but thats unrelated to the fact that H2O is literally water
>>7531350
No seriously. I'm still waiting.
>>7531373
are you genuinely this confused or is this a ruse?
>>7531378
not who you were talking to, but man do you come off as a pathetic loser. still waiting!!
>inb4 you try to say that I am them
>>7531378
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2015/09/02/jn.115.218016.abstract
>>7531380
Yeah, I'm sure you're that guy.
I hear raw honey is good for tempering summer allergies because it contains pollen, so you are doing exposure therapy on yourself every time you eat it
more importantly I don't understand why it costs more than regular honey. It's less processed, you literally have to do less work from hive to bottle. Why does it cost more when there are less steps in producing it?
>>7531382
Damn, you caught me.
STILL WAITING!!!
>>7531388
Still waiting.
>>7531386
>Why does it cost more when there are less steps in producing it?
marketing. They can market it as a natural healthy organic buzzwordy product, and people will pay more for it
>>7531362
No one has said anything about changing the "already present chemicals" than you. More strawman arguments as you continue to make assertions with any scientific sources to back you up.
I also notice you keep bringing up ratios. Ignoring that HFCS has a minimum ratio of 42:68 Fructose:Glucose, aka a ~ 2:3 ratio and Honey has a ratio of 38:31 fructose to glucose, aka a ~5:4 ratio, which proves you lack basic understanding of math, the fact is that a ratio means nothing here.
By your logic drinking a single drop of equal parts gasoline and water, which would be unpleasant and bad for you but you would live, is the same as drinking a gallon of half water and half gasoline, a serious medical emergency, because they are in the same proportions.
>>7531386
It's not expensive where I live. Maybe it's just the area where a person lives or the store they buy it from. We get it straight from the source from a local beekeeper. $10 for a quart jar. They've been around for years. Almost everyone out here gets their honey from them.
>>7530649
>honey
>yeast
Uh? your post sounds wrong.
>>7531386
It can be good for that but you want to buy the local honey.
>>7531397
well the problem you are running into is that there are several different commercially available forms of HFCS with various ratios between the two. Honey is well within this range, you are just looking at one end of the spectrum with your posted ratios
>>7531381
>Using a trial that lasted 2 weeks to counter along term study
>>7531402
there is wild yeast on pretty much everything in the wild
Though I am pretty sure honey doesn't have enough water for the yeast to start fermenting spontaneously, it would have to be diluted with water first
>>7531416
Are you just intentionally misunderstanding the first study?
>>7531390
Still waiting!
>>7531428
Still waiting!
>>7531411
You are correct. The 55:45 ratio used in soft drinks is approximately the same ratio. I got too used to referencing the 42:68 as the bottom line offender because of it's already grossly high fructose content.
that does not change the rest of my argument. The ratio itself is meaningless.
100% water is the same ratio as 100% water. But if you consume too much water it can and will kill you. An extreme example, but an example of why quantity is much more important than ratio.
>>7531421
Are you saying that honey does not contain pollen which helps the immune system? Are you saying that that, in itself, makes it healthier than HFCS?
>>7531431
STILL WAITING
>>7531440
Still waiting.
>>7531442
wanna know how to keep a retard in suspense?
>>7531447
You should know since you're the expert.
>>7531433
um, yeah if you eat less of it its less bad for you? Is that really all you are trying to argue?
>Are you saying that honey does not contain pollen which helps the immune system
I am saying that assuming your one study you posted saying HFCS is bad is true, then honey would have a very similar metabolic effect as it is mostly a fructose/glucose solution, the addition of pollen is entirely unrelated to its metabolic effects. I've never read any studies on the effect of pollen on your immune system, sounds kind of bullshitty though
>>7531451
I know you are, but what am STILL WAITING
>>7531453
>honey would have a very similar metabolic effect as it is mostly a fructose/glucose solution
Nobody is disagreeing with that.
But there's more involved that just metabolic effect here, and that would clearly differ between honey and HFCS.
>>7531455
>wanna know how to keep a retard in suspense?
Exactly.
>>7531433
>The ratio itself is meaningless.
If it where, it would not be a issue, and nobody would care.
But since somebody cares, there is a issue, and there is something there.
>>7531453
Im sure it sound like bullshit to you because you have zero idea how the immune system works. "T-Cells? Aren't those from Resident Evil durrr?"
Again, you keep making your own stupid statement and straw-manning them onto us. Only you are stupid enough here to believe that Honey=HFCS+pollen. Only you are stupid enough to believe that eating honey makes you healthy all of a sudden. Only you are stupid enough to believe that a similar ratio means it has the same quantity per volume.
You fail to understand not only complex scientific concepts like immunology, but also basic concepts like the difference between a proportion and a quantity. You have also provided a single source, a 2 week long trial, to argue against a long term consumption trial.
Get the hell out of here with your retarded opinions.
>>7531457
surely there are better ways of obtaining those benefits than eating them with concentrated sugar
>>7531475
YES. that is what everybody has been trying to tell you! No one here thinks eating lots of honey is good for you! But by god if you do decide to sweeten some tea or something, honey is objectively the healthiEST option.
Has it finally clicked in your head now?
>>7531473
so how the fuck does eating honey help your immune system?
That sounds like something right out of the organic food lobby's marketing book
>>7531475
Of course, but that's not the point of the discussion. The point of this discussion is whether or not a difference exists, not to debate alternatives.
>>7531475
That wasn't the argument. The argument was both HFCS and Honey were equally (un)healthy for you. You ignoring all the beneficial things in raw honey other than its sugars.
>>7531473
>Only you are stupid enough to believe that a similar ratio means it has the same quantity per volume.
Do you seriously think diluting it with maltose makes it healthier? Do you have any study that suggests maltose is better for you metabolically than fructose or glucose?
>>7531480
The immune system is very complex, so I will simplify things a bit. But essentially, when the immune system encounters something unfamiliar, it may decide to mark it as dangerous and begin attacking it. By ingesting pollen, you force your body to get used to the pollen and deem it less and less unfamiliar, and less and less likely to go all out at war with the little foreign particles causing allergy symptoms.
>>7531501
you are literally breathing in pollen every time you breath outside during the spring, summer, and autumn (and much of the time indoors too). Surely the small amount consumed in honey is completely insignificant compared to this
There is no way this has a meaningful effect on anything. Plus, allergies are not correlated with being underexposed to stuff
>>7531480
I can't find the actual study right now but this is a good explanation. It's from a
natural probiotic found in flowers.
Raw honey is honey (nectar from flowers) that is pure, unheated, unpasteurized and unprocessed. Small amounts of pollen from these flowers found in the honey help to stimulate your immune system.
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/raw-honey-contains-probiotic-boosts-immunity
>>7531516
>Plus, allergies are not correlated with being underexposed to stuff
What are peanut allergies?
>>7531495
You moron. Maltose is a dissacharide of two glucose monomers. The only difference is that it has a single extra step involved for maltase to break it up into two glucose. The issue here is the metabolization of the simple sugars, which as the study you have already been provided proves.
>>7531522
thats exactly my point
>>7531517
>greenmedinfo
yeah, no way I am going to take that as a legitimate source
>>7531535
Says the guy who has not source for anything.
>>7531516
Now you are delving into dangerous territory, MY territory, because that is exactly what most leading theories on allergies believe.
There is also a huge difference between breathing and ingesting something, as the vast majority of your immune system is located in your gut.
You know nothing of anatomy. Nothing of immunology. Nothing of nutrition, biology, or hell even basic chemistry. Why are you still here trying to argue that you have a clue what you are talking about?
>>7531540
>There is also a huge difference between breathing and ingesting something, as the vast majority of your immune system is located in your gut.
Your oral and nasal cavities are lined with mucus and saliva that drains into your gut, so you have that going for you
>>7531530
Ah, so you agree that the differing compositions of basic sugars is an issue with your statement, and that because they vary there is a difference, ignoring the multitude of minerals and enzymes that honey also contains. Gotcha.
>>7531535
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3758027/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385631/
http://www.m.webmd.com/diet/features/medicinal-uses-of-honey
>>7531540
I am literally a chemist, and have a strong background in biology, specifically biochemistry. Haven't read much about allergies though
>>7531559
And yet you fail to understand the difference between a ratio and a volume quantity. You mt be one piss-poor chemist.
>"Anon what the hell happened here?"
>"Durr I dunno boss. I added the 23% acid solution likes youz told me to boss"
>"..How much di you add anon?"
>"Durr I dunno youz said one drop but I added in the whole bottle durrr"
I think eating the pollen thats in the honey helps with allergy problems.
But thats just, like, my opinion, man.
>>7531584
>And yet you fail to understand the difference between a ratio and a volume quantity.
except this never happened
>>7531612
"Durr they have the same ratio so they must be the same even thought the quantity is different durrr"
>>7531341
"The whole point is that honey is mostly the exact same sugars in the same ratio as HFCS"
>>7531362
"the vast majority of the solution is fructose/glucose that is metabolized just the same as any other fructose/glucose solution of a similar ratio"
>>7531411
"ratios"
>>7531491
"Muh ratio only dilulted"
And so on. You have this weird fixation on the ratio of fructose and glucose which is largely irreverent.
Feel free to add some extra minerals, biologically active enzymes, and complex sugars to your next experiment though. Just make sure you keep the proportions of your initial solution the same and you will be fine right? :^)
>>7531651
Thats like saying soda is good for you because it is more dilute than straight HFCS
Its a ridiculous arguement you are making because these products are used to alter other products to a certain level of sweetness, so if honey has less sugar by volume more of it would be used to sweeten. Such a silly thing for you to focus on
>>7531664
You continue to strawman that any of us think any form of sugar is healthy to begin with. You saw that as if this is a religious cult where you must consume 16 ounces of honey everyday to be healthy.
Soda=not healthy
Soda made with HFCS = not healthy
Soda made with Honey = not healthy
Soda w/ Honey HealthIER than soda w/HFCS
Its called being relative. Getting stabbed in the leg is bad. But it sure a hell of a lot better than having all of your limbs sawed off.
Yet another simple scientific concept that you fail to understand "chemist".
>>7531705
>Soda w/ Honey HealthIER than soda w/HFCS
How though?
>>7531714
The honey contains trace nutrients, enzymes, etc, that are not found in the HFCS. That means two things:
1) you're getting more nutrition
2) you're getting slightly less sugar
Splitting hairs? Absolutely.
>>7531714
I'll repost since you have already forgotten
"Honey contains a number of enzymes, including invertase, which converts sucrose to glucose and fructose; amylase, which breaks starch down into smaller units; glucose oxidase, which converts glucose to gluconolactone, which in turn yields gluconic acid and hydrogen peroxide; catalase, which breaks down the peroxide formed by glucose oxidase to water and oxygen; and acid phosphorylase, which removes inorganic phosphate from organic phosphates.
Honey also contains eighteen free amino acids, of which the most abundant is proline.
Vitamins, Minerals and Antioxidants
Honey contains trace amounts of the B vitamins riboflavin, niacin, folic acid, pantothenic acid and vitamin B6. It also contains ascorbic acid (vitamin C), and the minerals calcium, iron, zinc, potassium, phosphorous, magnesium, selenium, chromium and manganese.
The main group of antioxidants in honey are the flavonoids, of which one, pinocembrin, is unique to honey and bee propolis. Ascorbic acid, catalase and selenium are also antioxidants. Generally speaking, the darker the honey, the greater its antioxidising properties.
Other compounds
Honey also contains organic acids such as acetic, butanoic, formic, citric, succinic, lactic, malic, pyroglutamic and gluconic acids, and a number of aromatic acids."
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/loveridge/index-page9.html
>>7531725
>2) you're getting slightly less sugar
you are only getting less sugar if you add less sugar, this is not an inherent property of honey
>>7531742
If two beverages contain an equal volume of either HFCS or Honey, then the one containing the honey will contain slightly less sugar because Honey is not 100% sugar whereas HFCS is.
>>7531731
the key to that is trace amounts. Not significant to thee human diet
>>7531751
>If two beverages contain an equal volume of either HFCS or Honey
It is not given that they have the same volumes, this is just an arbitrary assumption on your part
Also, HFCS is about 25% water, pretty sure that honey has more sugar by mass
>>7530539
>Is raw honey worth the premium price?
In most cases, no.
1) If you need it raw for making mead.
2) If you need it raw for an attempt to get above a particular allergen that blooms near you and affects you, but that also varietals of honey exist (such as malaleuka, mango, ragweed). In some cases, just wild honey from your specific region is thought to be inclusive of your allergen pollens too.
For everyone else, who might be going after the enzymes or other healthful possibilities of honey, you can try your luck, but I wouldn't put much faith in it.
I think the main issue with most of the argument is using the word healthy in the first place. It is a natural product. Put whatever stock you want into that word, as thinking it's glorious untouched and unpasteurized. But, when you start to equate natural=health and ignore common sense about what portion of your diet should be straight up sugar, than you'd be wrong. As a substitution for table sugar in places you'd be using jam, or table sugar to flavor and sweetened something, then great, switch to honey. But, should it be a part of your diet every day? Should it be a big part of your diet every day? Absolutely no one makes that claim with any common sense. The word healthy should be about something you should absolutely be doing, such as eating vegetables, or getting your daily protein intake, or making sure you aren't deficient in trace vitamins from some unhealthful balance in your life (like cancer, chronic pain, picky veganism or smoking). For the sugars in your life, whether you use agave, honey, sorghum syrup on your pancakes, demerara sugar....it's primarily a small part of your overall diet, as it should be, not just for it not being great for your teeth, but that some of your sugar should be slower release, not immediately available.
/stop arguing about HCFS
>>7531754
You only need trace amounts of vitamins for it to be significant to the human diet.
Anyway, all of this is moot: raw honey is worth the premium price in the same way certain select alcohol are worth the premium price. There are people who pay for it because of the depth of flavour they prefer and can discern. If that person is not you, there is no more reason bitching about how all sugar is the same anyway, which is a lot like bitching about how all alcohol is the same anyway and which is why white lightning' moonshine is clearly the same as a bottle of Macallan's.
>>7531760
Again, even if you assume quantiies are portioned out to equal the sugar content in both, the fact is one provides your body with enzymes and minerals and amino acids, the other does not. There is no way for you to honestly argue that they are the same.
>>7531775
The taste is a legitimate factor, but you are disregarding the original point that according to the very Princeton study you posted glucose/fructose solutions like HFCS and honey are worse for you metabolically than table sugar
>>7531808
well they are surely portioned based on the sweetening power, which would be generally proportional to the sugar content rather than the volume of raw material used
Also, your gut destroys enzymes so not sure what benefit those are supposed to provide with consuming honey, and it is not a significant source of amino acids, you are not going to be able to replace legitimate sources of dietary protein with honey
>>7531815
You seem to have me confused with someone else: that was literally the only post I made. Nutrition has nothing to do with metabolic benefit.
>>7531826
And again with the strawman that you seem to believe we are advocating relying on honey for your protein consumption.
Not even lying here, you are either the biggest autist I have ever met trying to shitpost this hard, or a genuine moron.
>>7531760
>It is not given that they have the same volumes, this is just an arbitrary assumption on your part
Yep, you're 100% correct about that. It is absolutely an assumption. But it seemed like a reasonable one to make given that honey and HFCS have comporable sweetness. So if you were formulating a soda for a given taste it makes sense that an equal amount of either would be used.
>>Also, HFCS is about 25% water,
Honey contains a similar amount of water.
>>7531846
>honey and HFCS have comporable sweetnes
Can't say I have ever tried straight HFCS, but surely if your contention is that honey is better for you because the sugar is more dilute it must be less sweet than HFCS and more would need to be used
>>7531856
Which again means nothing because all using more honey would do is increase the amount of other nutrition it provides.
>>7531866
the original contention was that honey si better because it is more dilute, which is very much not a benefit if more is required
These 'nutrients' are so fucking dilute though that it is ridiculous to even consider them when making a decision of which sweetener to use
>>7531856
The perceived sweetness of a product does not relate to how much sugar content it has. Lemons contain more sugar than strawberries, however strawberries taste sweeter than lemons.
>>7531881
If you took lemon juice and added more sugar it would be perceived as more sweet
Sure if you add tertiary ingredients it can effect your perception of it, but we are talking about 2 slightly different sugar mixtures used for sweetening, so I don't think that is relevant to this discussion
>>7531159
From a macro-nutrient perspective they are pretty much identical. That's the part that matters. The trace micro-nutrients are pretty well meaningless.
Honey tastes better though.
It gives me a buzz
>>7530539
>honey
Just a reminder that the Global Corporate Nobility and their fellow nobles in China are fucking us over again…
>>7531918
>>7531918
>Just a reminder that the Global Corporate Nobility and their fellow nobles in China are fucking us over again…
What does this mean? It's fake?
>>7531926
There is some fake honey coming out of China, yes.
>not buying raw California honey from Costco
Just buy local honey from your beekeepers. Buying it from the grocery store it will always be pasteurized unless it states "raw" on the label. If you want raw honey then either look for that on the label or buy it from a beekeeper. " Natural" doesn't mean anything and isn't a regulated term.
>>7531926
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Classification
Adulteration of honey is the addition of other sugars, syrups or compounds into honey to change its flavor, viscosity, make it cheaper to produce, or to increase the fructose content in order to stave off crystallization. According to the Codex Alimentarius of the United Nations, any product labeled as honey or pure honey must be a wholly natural product, although different nations have their own laws concerning labeling.[67] Adulteration of honey is sometimes used as a method of deception when buyers are led to believe that the honey is pure. The practice was common dating back to ancient times, when crystallized honey was often mixed with flour or other fillers, hiding the adulteration from buyers until the honey was liquefied. In modern times the most common adulteration-ingredient became clear, almost-flavorless corn syrup, which, when mixed with honey, is often very difficult to distinguish from unadulterated honey.[68]
Isotope ratio mass spectrometry can be used to detect addition of corn syrup and cane sugar by the carbon isotopic signature. Addition of sugars originating from corn or sugar cane (C4 plants, unlike the plants used by bees, and also sugar beet, which are predominantly C3 plants) skews the isotopic ratio of sugars present in honey,[69] but does not influence the isotopic ratio of proteins. In an unadulterated honey, the carbon isotopic ratios of sugars and proteins should match. Levels as low as 7% of addition can be detected.[70]
In one country, the USA, according to The National Honey Board (a USDA-overseen organization), "honey stipulates a pure product that does not allow for the addition of any other substance...this includes, but is not limited to, water or other sweeteners".[71]
>>7531929
the fact that people can't even tell the difference between honey and HFCS without advanced laboratory equipment is all we need to know
>>7531949
>people
People like you, you mean. The fact that "people" (and I use this term loosely) buy fake saffron and green-tinted machine oil labeled as italian olive oil and wouldn't know the difference if I put it in a bucket and bashed them over the head with it isn't a good reason to buy garbage shitfood.
>>7531954
they are the same thing no one can tell them apart
>>7531958
Speak for yourself
>>7531169
Whole date syrup is way better.
>>7532435
How way?
>>7532438
It has waaaaaaay more nutrients, such as fiber and other stuff to slow sugar absorption, and antioxidants to deal with the free radicals resulting from the never-perfectly-balanced reactions of metabolizing it.
>>7532438
Bing the nutrition information for both. For dates, you'll see some nutrients, while honey will be mostly just a bunch of zeros.
>>7532455
>fiber
>better
>>7531958
Are we applying the Turning test to food products and people now?
>>7532494
There is no upper limit for fiber from whole foods. If you're eating anything other than whole plant foods, your fiber intake is less than ideal.
>>7532531
thats a ridiculous thing to say, your body does not particularly much fiber
I love buying natural/local whenever I can.
The natural honey has a deeper, more complex flavor to it, like you can actually taste the fucking flowers that went into making it.
>tfw you cut off a little piece of the comb and chew on it
Always support your local beekeepers
