Just finished my first rye. And the wheat starter did phenomenally!
Now I realize you're supposed to feed your starter wheat and rye mix if that's what your bread will be made of. However I just got 3 bags of rye and had only wheat before. So rather than wait weeks I gave it a shot. And it went great.
I'm not sure why. Could be the yeasts found enough wheat to ignore the rye. Could be the culture already likes the stuff. I raised it from whole wheat. And there are rye fields near wheat fields.
My mix was pretty pedestrian: about 1 part whole rye, 1 part whole wheat, and 4 parts cheapass industrial bleached white wheat. I let it proof for a few hours before mixing in the 4 parts wheat and some sunflower seeds. Forgot the salt... Then I let it raise over night and put it on a 250°C pizza stone for 30 minutes. I checked with a toothpick after 20 but the inside wasn't done yet.
Now it has been cooling for over an hour and the first slice is heaven! Super fluffy texture, no big bubbles, divine fragrance. Dark brown and chewy but never crispy crust with a huge crack from further raising in the oven.
Some salt on the butter and a mental note to stop forgetting the salt every other time. Also: I am never buying bread again. This is so much better! I liked the wheat, but with a little rye it blows any bakery or industrial bread processing right out of the water.
Do you have recipes for sourdough?
What are your experiences?
I let a 1:1 mixture ferment at room temp overnight. Then I add any white flour in the morning
to get the dough down to the right hydration. And then it's all kneaded together in a bread
machine. Then i put the dough in a regular bread pan, proof for 4 hours or so, then bake.
Any wheat or rye flour is added before the overnight ferment, so it can absorb the water.
I
![11390455_10206844177253363_3091182253821466670_n[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JhxTsJI.jpg "11390455_10206844177253363_3091182253821466670_n[1].jpg")
I follow the levain method outlined in the book Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast. This is a country blonde. Thats white with a touch of rye and whole wheat in the mix.
>>7466756
Looking really fucking good, OP. My wife makes a similar loaf that has spoiled the shit out of me as far as bread goes. Her starter is all white flour, then she uses varying ratios of whole wheat and rye flour that she grinds herself for the bread. She came to her process over years of trial and error.
>>7467024
Pic's not mine. Don't have a camera that makes images worth showing.
It's a process. I have only taken the first few steps of a long journey.
I love how well sourdough stores. I can bake once a week and nothing gets stale or dry.
>>7467042
>images worth showing
well...
>>7467042
>It's a process.
Absolutely. The loaves my wife makes require two days to do. She's doing a couple today - I can hear the Electrolux mixer running in the kitchen.
The levan I use at work is 3 years old and smells amazing. Like nail polish and vinegar, pungent and sour.
>>7467152
My wheat grown culture has been dried out and stored for months twice in the last few years. It takes a week or two to perk up again, but then it's good as ever.
The only problems I have encountered are infection and too much alcohol. The infection was easy to deal with as it was only on the container, and it doesn't happen any more once the lactobacillus is in full swing. And when I see the culture losing bubble power I water it down to a batter, let it sit for a night, and then pour out the alcohol that has settled on top. Puts it right back in business.
>>7467168
My wife's has been going for 7 years. Only once did it get infected bad enough that she had to wash it, but it came right back after that.
Hungry little starter
How do your starters all do so well? I've got a 1:1 of whole grain unbleached hippie flour that's been sitting for two days and has maybe a few bubbles on top, no height change. The one before sat for 6 days, normal AP white baking flour and when I tried to bake with it, the bread came out almost unleavened even when I left it to rise as sponge overnight.
>>7468784
It usually takes me 5+ days of daily feedings to get a good starter going. Also, if you still have problems, try using bottled or filtered water instead of tap water. If you get your water from a city/municipal supply, he shit they treat the water with can cause problems with yeast growth in the starter.
>>7468784
Is that a commercial starter packet, or a culture you grew from microbes in the yeast over a few weeks or decades?
>>7468805
>they treat the water
Holy crap-
In capitalist Murrica, tap water boil you.
>>7468812
>microbes in the yeast
in the flour
My English went to bed already.
>>7468819
In some places yes. Believe it or not, but many places in the rest of the world treat their water supplies too. This isn't a strictly American phenomenon.
>>7468784
>How do your starters all do so well?
Put some active dry yeast in and be done with it.
Local yeast will take over after a while. But in the meantime, use the yeast growing from the active dry yeast you put in there to leaven some bread.
How many bubbles you see depends mostly on how wet your mixture is. To keep a sourdough so dry as that it would hold bubbles top to bottom is not healthy because alcohol cannot be transported away.
Store bought starters are not the real deal, just an approximation. It is a carefully balanced set of freeze dried yeasts and lactobacillus that needs to be revived. If you have problems make sure to follow instructions closely, especially the timing, use bottled water, and keep your starter a little warmer. You might as well just use yeast and yogurt though because the lactobacillus can barely come to life fast enough to protect the culture with acids and enzymes. It's just there for taste.
It a naturally grown culture it serves the role of protector and defends the yeasts from infections like mold. But it takes weeks to grow that strong. A sourdough is an eco system that has to balance into the niche you give it. The quality of your flour and water, the temperature of your kitchen, how often you feed it, the right microbes for that job have to grow dominant before they will leaven your dough well over night.
>>7468852
Only do this AFTER you have separated your starter for next time. Baking yeast is on steroids and infertile. It kills starters.
>>7468805
Ah, I see, I'd been told only to feed when it increased in size, which it didn't...maybe because I didn't feed it
>>7468812
Just from microbes in the flour, yeah. I added a littlr lactobacillus from a live culture yogurt to help, though.
>>7468852
I've been baking bread for a little while, and wanted to try using local yeasts rather than the super strong commercial stuff, just to see if it really made a difference.
>>7468877
Thanks! I'll make sure to add more water, bottled or filtered for sure. Great info, I really appreciate it
>>7468959
Another method, especially if you are looking for a local flavor, would be to spread flour on a tray, leave it next to a hay plot for an hour, then cultivate that. You might even want to use bleached flour to avoid growing the bought yeasts instead of the ones from the meadow.
If you get mold, throw it out and try again. Or tough it out, sometimes it overcomes contamination, especially if it's early.
Yeast spores are in the air everywhere. Collect at a dry place where grasses grow and you should catch significantly more yeasts than molds.
>>7468959
>added a littlr lactobacillus from a live culture yogurt to help
Doesn't help in my experience. It's not the right microbes. And it's none at all if the yogurt is pasteurized.
Jas Townsend has some great vids if you're into traditional baking methods. He also has a pleasant pace a little removed from the usual YT rabble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q8kNsc3iv8&list=PLF0aRbXYFzmuUbCHcR_1TNdb6IE990eCv
>>7469001
Ah well. It wasn't pasteurized, and it only took a minute or two anyway.
>>7468996
Yeah, I figured water wouldn't do any harm, but good to have confirmation. First starter I just stirred in any clear liquid on top, in hindsight that was pretty retarded and probably didn't help it.
>>7468983
Huh, that doesn't sound like a bad idea with spring coming up. The barn I work at has a lot of hay going through, most of it local, so I may have to try that. Thanks!
>>7469013
Ooh, this looks very neat, as it's not just bread but all kinds of cooking stuff. Looking forward to watching some of his stuff
>>7467152
>nail polish
I thought acetone (nail polish) smells meant the starter is totally fucked and needs to be disposed of?
I'm trying to make my own bread too. How do you get the bread to be lighter? The kind I make is very heavy, like cake, which I don't like for making sandwiches.
>>7470919
what recipe are you using?
>>7470919
Your leavening is insufficient. This can have many reasons. Here's what you can try.
Dough has to be really dry to rise properly. For proofing a little on the wet side is fine, but for rising knead in as much flour as you can. The dough should be hard to push the hand through. It should hold its shape indefinitely before rising.
Knead thoroughly after proofing. The yeasts don't grow uniformly, help them to spread around.
Let your dough's final rise be long enough, mine's usually over night. Sourdough isn't as aggressive as baking yeast. Industrial yeast will raise dough in half an hour. Sourdough needs much longer.
Use a dish shaped like the final product. Bubbles in dough offer virtually no structural support - it's all just surface tension. Without a bowl to conform to, dough might well collapse in on itself. Flour your dish or use a floured basket.
If all else fails raise the dough in the warm oven. Yeasts feel most comfortable just above 21°C. But push them to around 50°C and they will bubble for their lives. Watch the humidity though, don't let it harden. It can be tricky to time it right. You have to remove the risen dough from the oven for preheating and keep it stable for as long as that takes.
Slice your loaf. The bread will expand significantly during baking while the outer crust is already dried and hardening. This can confine the dough. With a cut across the top you give it room.
All in all your dough should just about double in volume.
If all this doesn't help, maybe the culture is a bit weak. If you have a friend who also bakes try their starter.
>>7471174
replace "proof" with initial fermentation
>>7471174
>Dough has to be really dry to rise properly.
come on man when you start off saying stuff like that nobody is going to take you seriously.
>>7471368
Oh, you bake your cupcakes on a flat tray?
That's awesome! How do you do it?
>>7471174
>Dough has to be really dry to rise properly.
Depends on what's "dry".
With white flour I do 80% water for boules that I've final proofed in a bowl and 75% for baguettes and it rises just fine.
>2016
>white flour
>>7466756
http://recipesfinder.com/recipes-category/appetizers-first-dishes-main-dishes-side-dishes-sweet-and-desserts-unique-dishes-tasty-recipes.php?id=2205
>>7473235
>http://recipesfinder.com/recipes-category/appetizers-first-dishes-main-dishes-side-dishes-sweet-and-desserts-unique-dishes-tasty-recipes.php?id=2205
>sugar, baking soda, baking powder, eggs, sour cream and raisins
That's cake, son.
Is my starter ready? Smells good, sour but not enough to sting my nose. Volume hasn't increased that much, but could that be because of it's size?
Also are there any considerations in moving a starter? Mine's in a ceramic bowl right now and I have a larger steel bowl that could accommodate several more days of feeding.
>>7473575
>Is my starter ready?
Looks bubbly
>Volume hasn't increased that much, but could that be because of it's size?
That's because it's too wet to hold bubbles, they just rise and pop
>Also are there any considerations in moving a starter? Mine's in a ceramic bowl right now and I have a larger steel bowl that could accommodate several more days of feeding.
I keep mine in a canning jar. The lid keeps out dust and acts as a valve. I cultivate a much smaller volume. Temperature will be your biggest consideration for storage. You can slow it down by keeping it in the fridge.
>>7473575
Basically what this guy >>7473859 said.
I keep mine in a 2 quart cambro with plastic wrap loosely draped over the top.
I've moved with it probably 4 times now, keep a designated corner for it in the back of my fridge, and move it to a bowl to feed while I wash the cambro every so often.
As long as you don't spill random shit in it I've found it to be pretty hardy.
>>7466756
>wheat starter
>adding yeast
doing it wrong
>>7473575
Looks pretty similar to the starter I started last week, though mine is a bit thicker. Planning to make some sourdough rye on Saturday when I have some friends over for a corned beef dinner.
>>7474178
reading it wrong
So my bread is almost gone.
What next?
Has one of you ever tried mixing in sesame? I've done it with white bread, but sourdough?
Can I raise my bread with early money?
Related, but if I'm going away for a while, can I pack my starter in salt or throw it in the freezer and expect it to come back and do okay? Or would it not be worth it?
>>7477930
Salt is definitely an option.
If you want to store it for longer I'd dry it out completely. Spread it on a plate but don't heat it. Then you can just crumble it up and store it dry. To revive let it sit in water for a night, stir out the clumps, then feed it for a week or two.
>>7477930
I usually just take a few cups of it and stick it in the fridge in a jar. When you want to use it again, take it out, feed it and let it sit overnight to wake up again.
My bread didn't rise today.
I was in a hurry. It was rising over night but then I didn't warm it before baking it. And it just didn't unfold, the cuts just widened a little.
Making my sponge soon and letting it rise overnight. Wish me luck, and I'll post pics!
>>7481225
Luck
Alright, just waiting for them to rise, then popping 'em in the oven! Sorry it's sideways, on Android.
>>7483437
Looking good.
What's the temperature where they're proofing?
>>7483478
Just a little above room temp, had them in the turned-off oven with the light on.
Came out waaay better than my first batch, which I credit my better starter with. Not too shabby considering this is my second time baking bread.
2nd boule
hi can i post my bread here too?
it's speltbread
>>7483728
The more bread the merrier! That looks like a pretty nice loaf, too!
How do you make bread from spelt? Where do you even get the flour? Health food places or something?
>>7483747
supermarkets sell spelt flour here, it's 2-3 euros for a kilo which should be two breads
only problem is it gets dry within two days
>>7483767
slice, bad and freeze it. will stay good for weeks or months that way.
>>7483803
>I always heard that freezing made bread stale faster?
Freezing does not. The bread will remain perfect in the freezer for a long time. When I want bread I remove some slices from the zip lock bag and toast them in my toaster oven.
>>7483816
>claims bread isn't stale
>toasts it before eating, meaning they wouldn't even be able to tell
Bread in the fridge is plain wrong.
Freezing bread isn't that bad, but of course it helps neither flavor nor structure. If I'm not using it for a few days the freezer is better than the bread box though. The only real issue is condensation.
>>7483856
i've frozen bread for as long as I can remember. It tastes fine toasted or un-toasted. The crust is not crispy, but other than that, the bread is fine.
My starter smells like milk and pennies. any tips?
I never thought my mum posted on 4chan...
>>7484092
Next time, don't add milk or pennies to your starter.
Could be a bacterial infection maybe? I know very little about what could cause that
>>7484168
yeah i bet you do.
>>7479998
Turns out it wasn't so bad. It's a bit compact is all. But it tastes great and is just a tiny bit chewy.
People always make sourdough more complicated than it needs to be. In reality, it should be simple to make and simple to use. It's been my experience that people do not have sufficient experience with bread before moving to using a levain, and are too impatient to get good results.
To make a sourdough use a scale and put together a 1:1 mix of whole wheat flour and water. Feed in a 1:2:2 ratio (starter:flour:water) with whole wheat flour every 24 hours regardless of activity, discarding excess starter as needed. When the starter shows activity (leavening and bubbles), transition to feeding twice daily. Bread flour can be substituted at this point if a white starter is preferred. Once the starter is reliably doubling within 4 hours of feeding (assuming ambient temp >70F), continue twice daily feeds for another week and then the starter is ready for use. This process may take two weeks, it may take two months. The starter will go through various stages, sometimes with a pretty funky odor. So long as it doesn't have any abnormal discoloration (green, pink, etc), it's okay to keep feeding. Some dark-colored liquid (hooch) will develop after it hasn't been fed in a while. This is normal. It's important to let the starter fully mature prior to use. An immature starter will result in poor product every time.
Using a starter to leaven bread requires patience. It can generally be used in amounts ranging from 20-100% (baker's percentages). No need to add additional leavening agents. The key with using a natural levain is to bake to volumetric endpoints. What I mean is that it is important to let the dough bulk ferment until doubled and proof until just under doubled regardless of the amount of time it takes to reach these goals. Sourdough doughs are very sensitive to temperature, so if you want to supercharge the process, use marginally warm water in the dough, and bulk ferment/proof at 80F.
>>7485328
Why would you intentionally make a bad tasting beard
>>7466756
Finally got my starter to pass the 'float test'. Going to leaven tonight and bake tomorrow! Any tips for a beginner?
>>7487090
Leaven (on the left) came out great, to be mixed the rest of the dough on the right.
>>7485333
what do you mean
>>7485333
sourdough is delicious
>>7488594
Looking good.
>>7488594
Folding and rising the dough. Haven't fucked it up so far lol. I must say folding and shaping dough is extremely satisfying.
>>7489111
Ready yet?
>>7489111
>a day later
Don't feel bad. Try it differently next time.
>>7467004
Thats probably one of the most beautiful pictures I've ever seen.
>>7494779
It tells a nice story
>grasses
>airborne yeasts
>ground grass seed and yeasts over fire
>>7489111
>>7490999
>>7492633
Lol sorry for the late post. Bread cam out just fine! Could have shaped it a bit better is all.
Crazy how we as a society have gotten away from this. So easy, so simple, and so healthy. But instead people eat commercial breads, gluten free nonsense, etc.
>>7466756
i tried sourdough for the first time last week and either my starter wasn't fully ready or my starter:flour ratio was off because the bread didn't taste very sourdough-like. it still turned out well but not as sour as i wanted.
i used this recipe
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/rustic-sourdough-bread-recipe
>>7498333
Next time cook it a bit longer. And try to score it for a bit more aesthetic bread.
I made a mini loaf today
Basic bitch white bread. Added some olive oil and an egg to the dough.
Tastes pretty good, but I need a healthier alternative considering how often I eat it.
