Let's have a cheap wine that doesn't suck thread.
No australian wine, but I think that's understood from the "doesn't suck" part.
>>7229406
Do Australians really have no good wine?
>>7229414
'good' wine is just a meme. You pseudo's couldn't tell the differences between the cheapest australian, vintage aged old world or luxury USA wine. Just drink the cheapest possible wine without to many additives.
>>7229414
Most wine producing countries are *capable* of making good wine, but certain countries choose to make their everyday wines terrible. Australia and NZ are a prime example, Argentina and Chile are also somewhat guilty of this though not as bad as the shitpost kings.
Honestly the best cheap wine comes from Europe, particularly the less famous parts of France, Italy, and Portugal. America makes good cheap wine too, from the Central Coast of CA and the Finger Lakes in NY.
The only place to get good, cheap wines is Costco.
>>7229419
>implying you'd know the difference between a wine with a fuck ton of additives and a wine without
It's funny how you discredited your own opinion in one line like that.
>>7229433
You haven't drunk bottom of the line wine before? The stuff that goes for $2-3 per litre? The only thing I can taste are the preservatives buddy.
>>7229441
>all wine is the same
>except wine that I personally don't approve of, THAT wine is different!
Sure thing buddy. Definitely not backpedaling :)
>>7229419
Sommeliers can't tell the difference either. It's a completely fictional expertise to have. They literally just lie and say they taste things others cant, and the people who can't taste them believe what they say. When it reality the qualities they can't taste don't even exist.
It has been proven time and time again in studies that licensed sommeliers often can't even tell when they are drinking the same bottle of wine over and over if you tell them they are different
It's literally just grape juice
>>7229449
So the licensing exam is faked?
>>7229459
I'm not going to tell you there aren't different types of wines, but to claim you can taste the year something was bottled, be able to determine what the weather was like, or even the country the wine originated is complete nonsense.
Here's a fun recent anecdote with a wine expert raving about this bottle from southern California, the soil really does give a unique characteristic....except the wine I have him was Chilean
>>7229475
Chip manufacturers bin out their product based on hair-splitting differences that even an experienced user wouldn't be able to tell without sophisticated equipment.
By your logic, anyone who dares suggest two chips might be different is peddling nonsense because an expert might guess the wrong chip under real-world circumstances.
>>7229490
again, wine has slight differences, the same way coke and pepsi taste different and a layman can taste all of them. There is nothing proprietary about what a sommelier does.
It's a meaningless title, literally a job, just like an dish washer or prep cook, they are the bartender that serves the wine.
They don't have some kind of refined palate and sophisticated tasting skills, they are lying to you.
Want to be certified? Pay $400 to a certification agency and they send you a paper with your name on it. Congratulations you are now a wine expert
It's just a remnant of archaic meaningless classic french snobbery to try and scam the wealthy out of money and make the poor feel excluded
>>7229509
>It's a meaningless title, literally a job, just like an dish washer or prep cook, they are the bartender that serves the wine.
Dish washer and prep cook are not "meaningless titles", they describe the function the person serves at a restaurant, same as sommelier.
>It's just a remnant of archaic meaningless classic french snobbery to try and scam the wealthy out of money and make the poor feel excluded
Someone is butthurt.
>>7229490
Not that guy but your analogy isnt really accurate at all.
We arent talking about experts mistaking the 2001 Petrus for the 2002 Petrus here. Studies have shown that if you present these 'experts' with a white wine and the same white wine, but coloured red, they will describe them completely differently. Or 3 glasses of red, from the same bottle, and they will describe them and score them very differently.
Is it possible to taste differences between wine types? Yes. Is it possible to detect certain smells and flavours in different glasses of wine? Yes. Are sommeliers likely exagerating their abilities and has this been shown in studies? Yes.
>>7229523
Nahhhh it's just a brown person who doesn't understand sophistication or European traditions. It's okay.
>>7229526
Dye has flavors.
Super tasters do exist, that's why most small children avoid heavily spiced foods and prefer a more bland diet. Their palates become overwhelmed with flavor.
>>7229526
The food coloring analogy doesn't show what you think it does. All it shows is if you manipulate the data, people draw incorrect conclusions. No surprise there.
>Are sommeliers likely exagerating their abilities and has this been shown in studies?
Exaggerating your own abilities for professional gain is basic career advice. A successful person knows how to do this in a way that won't put them in a bad spot. Most people are pretty good at this. A few fuck it up. Welcome to the real world.
>>7229532
If you are saying a drop of red dye is all it takes to give a white the rich full body of a red then you have just proven wine tasting is bullshit
You are making excuses. Wine is grape juice
>>7229547
>Wine is grape juice
A very special kind of grape juice that contains alcohol and makes people like you feel culturally inadequate.
>>7229538
That isn't a manipulation of data, it's an experiment that conclusively shows the perception of wine tasters is entirely a placebo
>>7229554
So you're saying if I perceive a wine those French assholes call a dessert wine to be different from a wine those French assholes call a dry red as being sweeter relative to the dry red, I'm just being scammed by a wealthy arrogant sommelier?
Got it. You're a moron.
>>7229532
They used a flavourless colouring agent. Check out the study rather than just guessing at why it might not be right.
>>7229538
Except the food colouring analogy shows exactly the lack of ability these people had when describing the flavour of the wine.
The colour has no physical affect on the flavour. It does not change the properties of the wine. The same smell and taste remains. Yet it completely changes the perception of the wine. Clearly what these tasters were basing their description of the flavour on wasnt the flavour of the wine, but some perception of what they thought they should be tasting.
No doubt there are studies where the same wine is placed in two different bottles - a cheap looking and expensive looking bottle and the descriptions are wildly different. The actual taste of the wine is clearly not relevant.
>>7229572
>Yet it completely changes the perception of the wine
http://www.culinarylore.com/food-science:apples-potatoes-and-smell-experment
This is something educated people learned in kindergarten.
Does wine cheese?
>>7229576
You really are quite fucking stupid.
>>7229598
>I'm out of arguments so I'm just going to stamp my feet and scream insults
You know that feeling you get of being "beneath" the nice cultured people? The one that says those meanies just want to exclude you from nice things?
It's because it's true. You are beneath us and we don't like your smell. It detracts from the subjective pleasure we get out of eating and drinking nice things.
>>7229616
I'm actually loling at this kid right here. He's actually sticking his fingers in his ears nonononono you're wrong!! Wines are different!!! Science isn't reaaaalll!!!
You're the one getting scammed here. Guarantee you couldn't tell the difference between cooking sherry and the $60 bottle I got as a gift and haven't even opened
>>7229616
No, you posted a link that clearly you havent read, that is barely relevant and is mostly full of shit. If you had some actual ability to construct a reasonable argument, then perhaps it would be worth continuing this conversation. But you havent done that and you arent able to.
Darkhorse Big Red Blend. Usually under 10 bucks anywhere.
Op here, I opened the wine. It's really good for a cheap wine. I can definitely taste the terroir, it tastes exactly $3.75 better than the slightly cheaper wine that was next to it. And I'm glad I went for the 2013. It was a good year for Mendoza Pinot Noir, or "Pinot" as I call it.
Pretty much confirms what everyone already knew: more expensive wine is better wine.
It's not that hard to taste the difference between wine. Different grapes and processes yield a different taste and an analysis of the chemical composition can show the compounds that make them taste different. It is scientifically provable that wine is not "just grape juice."
As for whether expensive wines are better is something else entirely. There are certain characteristics that are generally agreed to be undesirable that occur in spoiled or corked wine and tend to turn up in cheap wine.
Furthermore cheap wines of different types tend towards generic flavor profiles. It's not necessarily bad tasting as in spoiled but it can be considered bland which is an entirely different culinary sin.
>>7229414
We have good wine, but you'd probably struggle to find a good export for the sort of prices that would count as cheap. Domestic on the other hand, some real bargains can be picked up relative to the minimum wage.
OP said cheap wine, but the blanket statement of "Australia has no good wine" is common on /ck/, it must be driven by memesters that only drink bargain basement shit like Yellowtail or burgeoning snobs that have only had fruit bomb warm climate shiraz: or perhaps simply as a way to try and get back at Australians who are seen as shitposters in a similar way to how yuropeens meme over sections of the craft beer market in the US.
>>7229406
chile wine > california > aussie >>>>>>>>>>>> argentine watery grape juice
>>7229811
>implying the problem with argentine wine is that it's "watery"
Someone has never had Argentine wine before
Are you the all wine is the same guy? How can wine from a certain country even have distinct characteristics? It's literally grape juice.
>>7229830
It's amazing how hell bent you are at destroying your own thread by acting like a cunt to everybody who replies to it
Not surprising you pay out the ass for overpriced grape juice. We are all laughing at your stupidity
>>7229880
So you haven't then. That wasn't really necessary, since it was obvious, but it's the thought that counts.
I like south african pinotage
>>7229888
You are on the wrong side of history
>>7229950
Let me guess, you graduated top of your class in the navy seals?
>>7229830
well, i tried to just shitpost but well,
depends of the argentine province, for personal experience i like the wines on the mendoza area, and some moscatel, but my preference is the mistela variety, not wine but good for sharing and for some coctel or a table.
what i like of chilean wines vs argentine is the tickness of chilean, in comparation to argentina, from simple chicha or pipeno wine to just regular "boxed" wine sold both on argentina and chile.
also, fernet is a shit and your choice of wine isnt as good as you think, even if its cheap
>>7229968
>he thinks I'm from Argentina
It's not as good as pinot noir from real countries but it's not bad for south america. You arr rook same to us
>>7229984
its ok, i'll have a toast for you and your inferior taste :D
>>7229811
I kind of feel that those that really have a thing against australian wine are mainly americans. I found while I was in america that you really only got australia's shit wine. I mean no one drinks yellow tail here. I found it absolutely insane that a bottle of yellow tail bubbles in the states was 14 dollars where here in australia you could easily get it buy one get one free for 7. Thus its practically sparkling boxed wine. I also saw you guys got some Jacob's Creek but even that wasnt the good stuff. I honestly feel that americans need to travel more before making too many suggestions about things outside of their own sphere. Also, america gets the shit french wine as well. So Im glad that doesnt even make the cut here.
Ultimately, I believe that americans need to tavel before saying tha californian wine is the best in the world. It really shows how closed minded americans are. And before I get told off for being a europoor or a britbong or an ausfag. Im a american who just so happened to live in upside-down-land.
>>7229449
So then how do the sommelier olympics exist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juM68dibIBY
>>7229568
No, he's saying if you perceive a $50 dry red as being objectively superior to a $15 dry red you're being scammed.
>>7230273
It's all just grape juice. "Red" and "white" is just a hallucination on the part of snobs.
Going to a BYOW party where people will be tasting from each bottle.
Looking for a tasty Petite Sirah. Any suggestions? Doesn't have to be expensive, just good tasting.
i like Reisling and they tend to be cheap anyway. though to me they are more of a spring summer sipper. winter time an inexpensive red blend for under $15 is hard to find by me in jersey
>>7229799
I don't know for sure, but it also feels like our local reds cater to the perception that they need to be served at room temperature. Australia generally having warmer room temperatures than the rest of the world, I find that during summer local red tastes great at room temperature while imports will need to be very slightly chilled to be at their best.
If so, maybe people overseas need to warm our reds slightly. Not Yellowtail, though. Nothing's going to save that trash. I don't even understand how they manage to export it while keeping it at an appropriate price.
*ISNT hard to find sorry
>>7230114
Pretty much this.
And it is also fair to say that most of the wine producing world has a good laugh over American self love for their "amazing Californian whyne"
because no one outside of the mighty USA really gives a shit about Napa Valley.
>>7229406
>"No australian wine, but I think that's understood from the "doesn't suck" part."
nice meme man you memed us good
>Implying you're not all a bunch of angry frogs, annoyed that Australia has cheaper, better wine and we're putting your entry to mid level wine makers out of business
>>7230998
>Implying that centuries of over production, pesticide abuse and recently shifting climactic conditions hasn't affected French wine quality
>Implying that Australia isn't becomming the world superpower in wine production because of the pristine natural environment and incredibly varied topographical, geological and micro-climactic regions, with new wine regions being discovered almost every year due to the sheer scale of the land
>Implying that old-world winemakers aren't migrating to Australia by the boat load because of the above
>>7230942
Why do flyovers think Napa Valley is the only American wine? Is it because they only know about wines from Hollywood films?
Aussie wine is good, but overseas you can't get anything decent for under 30 USD.
I tend to avoid drinking wine in non-producing countries as it can be really tough to find a good value drop, and the locals normally have something else to offer.
>>7231181
Yes, most Americans also think French people want to kill them because the French snob stereotype is popular in Hollywood.
Mogen David is p. good for the price if you're not one of those kinds of people who instantly wince at the mere mention of a concord wine.
I really can't get into any other wines than ports. Everything tastes so watery or sour. What are some good, rich wines, /ck/?
Pic related is like $20 and my go-to. Their late bottle vintage is about $40 or $45 iirc, and I have a 2006 of it sitting on a shelf.
>>7231282
Sherry is rich and prolly the closest thing to port, plus you'd probably also like cabernet sauvignon and bordeaux.
I just want to be able to go to a restaurant and know the best wine for my meal.
Similarly i want to know the best wine for all meats/cheeses, because i'd love to be able to throw better parties
How deep into this do i honestly need to go?
>>7231494
Any restaurant where the wine is good enough to matter, there will be someone working there who can advise you. Poorfriends who subsist on hamburger helper will insist otherwise, but it's actually a good strategy to ask, and specify your budget.
>>7231509
Interesting, thanks
But for more independent learing, i'm guessing it's courses and books - not to mention just trying the different wines?
>>7231640
Pretty much. Generic pairing formulas until you know what you like.
basically any bold red from argentina, malbecs especially
>>7229624
I don't think you can objectively rate different wines based on price range. A cheap one might fit you better than an expensive wine. If you read any wine review, there will be both cheap and expensive wines at the top and bottom. Just try different brands and grapes and enjoy the experience.
Also, I thought sommeliers are supposed to guide you towards a certain type of wine, not be some kind of tasting robot.
>>7231181
Because muh Opus One
