How do vegetarians justify eating mushrooms?
Mushrooms are most certainly not plants...the mycelium is more like a giant organism and the fruiting bodies are it's reproductive tendrils.
>>7196510
Vegetarians can't justify anything. That's why they're women.
>>7196510
Phylogenetically they're more closely related to animals than plants.
Further, they exhibit greater degrees if sentience than mollusks.
That said, picking a mushroom does not harm the mycelium. It's basically like picking an apple from a tree.
>>7196521
>Further, they exhibit greater degrees if sentience than mollusks.
Wrong. Something is either sentient, or it is not. There is no grey area.
>>7196525
Alright senpai, let's be all semantically-inclined. Do you have a better word for getting across what you know I'm saying?
>>7196552
I have no idea what you are trying to say. I just know that the level of cogniscience between two non-sentient organisms is NOT something that can be quantified or qualified. Too many dimensions to compare & significantly different biology.
>>7196521
>mollusks
Retard.
>>7196510
you don't rape, chain up, abuse and kill mycelium
>>7196720
>he hasn't seen the japanese movie where mushroom heads kill everybody
>>7196733
im interested but that would probably give me the creeps
>>7196521
What's so bad about eating invertebrates anyway? They're killed all the time and it's practically impossible to avoid eating them since they're in a lot of natural ingredients.
>>7196720
Mad veghead detected
>>7196510
What do you have against mycotarianism? Besides you are only eating the fruiting body.
>>7196521
>button mushroom
>squid
>more sentience
what the fuck? Toad is that you?
>>7196510
Mushrooms are weird as fuck honestly. It is odd that it is so normal to eat them considering how absolutely bizarre they can be. I mean, I like them a lot, but the more you read about them the weirder it gets.
>>7196517
>That's why they're women.
I love my meat, anon. stfu with that shit.
>>7198353
he's saying that all vegetarians are women, not that all women are vegetarians. dumb bitch.
Because mushroom can't be said to suffer in any sense of the word, that's why.
>>7198354
I know a male vegetarian
>>7197588
When I said mollusk, I might have meant bivalve. Mussels and things like that are certainly animals, but they're far from having thought or feeling.
>>7197595
Actually I'm preparing to teach a class on mushrooms. Feel free to ask any questions you may have, or if there are any sort of facts you'd like to know, I have plenty of fun-gi facts.
>>7198364
He wishes he was a woman, though. Fucking trans.
>>7196720
>using the term 'rape' in the context of animals
Tell me you're joking.
>>7196510
Vegetarianism is defined by what you're not allowed to eat and not vice versa.
>>7198369
>Fucking trans.
Not right now.
>>7196560
>I have no idea what you're trying to say but it's wrong
are you a bernie sanders voter
>>7196720
mad veganfags are the most entertaining vegan fags
it's the only time they have energy, really, is when they need to make shit up about how bad critters are being treated
> mushrooms have some biological characteristics that could be compared to animals if you really wanted to
> thus it's okay to murder billions of thinking feeling animals
Carnist logic, ladies and gentlemen.
>>7198625
>thinking
>feeling
Nice try anon.
>>7198625
Animals will be violently killed no matter whether it's humans doing the killing or not. Argue against factory farms if you like, but the claim that killing animals is inherently wrong rests on the idea that animals without human intervention are living wonderful harmonious long lives before eventually dying of old age. Which is just utterly, comically wrong.
>>7198371
Muslims rape goats all the time in the Middle East. They also keep little boys as sex slaves
>>7198686
Whereabouts in the Middle East exactly???
>>7198692
the
whole
thing
>>7198353
I bet you do
Anybody who wants to learn about shrooms has to buy Mushrooms Demystified. It's a great book, exhaustive, yet hilarious which probably can not be said about any other mycological textbook.
>>7198368
Chances of me finding a poison mushroom in the woods?
>>7196510
They have no central nervous system and feel no pain. On a side note, I hate mushrooms.
>>7196510
>these are the arguments people try to come up with
I mean fuck, I'd never a be a vegetarian, but you people are in fucking denial.
>>7199314
Poison, kill you? Or just poison, shit and or puke guts out?
Very good. Without special knowledge you should not be mushrooming. Find a mentor and read the book indicated a couple posts above.
>>7199321
>They have no central nervous system and feel no pain.
Neither do bivalves, so why don't vegetarians eat scallops?
plants are also giant organisms with fruiting bodies?
>>7199346
Hmmmmm....well I have a baggie o' shrooms I found in the woods this morning. About 6 different kinds. What are the chances one of these will kill me?
>>7199314
>>7199346
>special knowledge
no. Just take a phone with gps, look up the shape and markings of any mushroom you see.
Wikipedia is really good with mushrooms at telling you wether or not there are identical mushrooms that are poisonous.
Sporeprint everything and ask at the shroomery if you aren't 420% sure.
>>7196525
That is wrong. There are degrees to sentience just like their are degrees to sapience and consciousness.
>>7196510
It's even more justifyable than eating certain plants.
Eating the fruiting bodies of them doesn't even kill the organism.
>>7199383
the cock is your fruiting body
>>7199434
my cock doesn't wither and degrade once i make a kid
>>7199372
>no. Just take a phone with gps, look up the shape and markings of any mushroom you see.
That won't work. Wikipedia's inadequate. You need the mushroom Bible and a friend who knows their shit.
>>7198593
Your response took more time and effort than his.
Vegetarians are not logical people, they make their decisions on emotion alone
>>7199496
Have you ever seen an old man naked?
It does.
>>7197595
>but the more you read about them the weirder it gets
Such as?
>>7198371
Seals in the Antarctic rape penguins. If one type of species is known to rape a different one, isn't inter-species rape (excluding humans) not inconceivable?
>>7199600
My point was not that it doesn't happen, quite the opposite. Forced sex is absolutely normal for animals, they don't know any different or care, and using an emotionally loaded term like rape when talking about animal reproduction is very disingenuous.
Consent is a classic example of a social construct - and incidentally an example of why conflating 'social construct' with 'wrong' is really stupid.
Women are fucking stupid
>>7199600
A dog once humped my leg. I'm still in therapy, dealing with the post traumatic stress.
>>7196510
They are neither plants or animals they fall in to the kingdom fungi. Mushrooms are the fruiting bodies of the mycelim, and are a fungus. Op u a fag.
>>7198354
There are male vegheads, faggot.
>>7198713
You know it!
>>7196525
its a grey area as if to whether you will survive a mycelium
>>7198686
>Comparing mud-slimes to actual people.
Come one now.
>>7199314
Very high desu senpai. On any given hunt in most parts of the world, death cap mushrooms will be one of the most commonly found fungi. As few as one of these will kill you dead. Same goes for the "destroying angels."
Amanitas as a genus are not to be taken lightly.
>>7200608
>vegetarian
>male
If that's what you want to call them...
>>7200921
Stinkhorn. The poop-like substance on the end of the dick-like shaft smells awful to attract flies, which spread the mushroom's spores by landing in it and getting them stuck to their tiny feet.
A fun fact is that Chinamen and other orientals enjoy eating this mushroom when it is in its unripe (testicle-like) egg form.
>>7196560
>that CAN'T be quantified or qualified
>there are too many dimensions to compare and significantly different biology
that sounds like a point in favor of differing between them though, reading your post made me more convinced that the guy you're replying to is speaking reasonably.
>>7198683
>it'll happen either way so we may as well just do it a bunch
people in third world countries die in horrific ways all the time, but that doesn't morally justify flying over specifically to torture and kill them. I can't get mad about factory farms because it is entirely true that animals living in the wild have shit lives as well, but I'm not going to justify how I'm propping up a system that leads to much more of that just so I can eat tasty food. I'm just going to eat it.
>>7198625
Pointing out the logical inconsistencies of one group of people isn't that same as claiming that an opposing group's beliefs are logically sound. Sick strawman though.
>>7201082
I think it's entirely probable that the life of animal in a factory farm is worse than the life of an animal in the wild. It does not follow that all farmed animals have worse lives than wild animals.
If it's possible to keep animals in conditions where their lives are net positive - and I think it is, and that most non factory farms probably fit this criterion - then I can see no reason to object to that. If clearing an area of wild land to farm it leads to the farmed animals that live there having better lives than the wild animals that would have existed in their place, that seems to me to be morally good, not bad.
>>7198368
Yea, man. No specific question. Just start talking about what you find interesting. I'm readin.
Mushrooms are tasty, dude!
>>7198369
>not being a transwoman
>not being at the very least a femboy
Apply yourself nigga
>>7201084
That would be a very small subset of vegetarians making a very specific argument. Fungi aren't plants, but they aren't animals either. If the broad definition of being a vegetarian is not eating animals, then there is no problem.
He's trying very hard though, just to tear some people down a peg, because some of their logic isn't completely rock solid, even though most of their intentions are good, all they're trying to do is minimize the harm they're causing.
"Well you're doing better than I am, but you aren't doing PERFECTLY so there I got you! Fuckers."
>>7201082
> I can't get mad about factory farms because it is entirely true that animals living in the wild have shit lives as well
Uhh... Anon, your brain is doing that thing it's not supposed to do...
>>7202553
I think you're projecting too much that this is some sort of a "defense." For some, maybe it is. For me, no. I think vegans are kind of ridiculous with their dietary absolutism. But I don't need to put them down to affirm my desire to eat meat. There's no relation between my scoffing at their beliefs and my ability to eat meat.
How is anyone doing better at anything anyway? I literally have no cares about animals being killed for food.
>>7202515
Yo, I'll make a thread for this soon actually. I'll probs use a trip to identify myself there, as I'd enjoy posting a bunch about mushrooms. By the end of it, perhaps you'll have a solid elementary handle on mushroom hunting too.
I'll be out of town (for a mushroom foray) the next few days. How about watch for the thread on the 29th or 30th?
>>7203030
I guess there's no real point in having moral discussions with the amoral.
>>7203042
Morals and logic don't overlap, honestly.
>>7198683
it actually isn't all that wrong. not to say the wild isn't full of hardship and brutality and zebras running without one of their hind legs, but the way we treat some animals are horrifying in their execution, and ironically this is indescriminate of weather we eat the animal or just keep it around like horses and dogs.
People who don't care about animals are assholes and often show just as much contempt to their customers of meat, updating cleanliness and renewability as little as legally possible. then there are the people who care about animals, and theyre all retarded self obsesseive fucks who can't understand that animals are not human, and infact have different needs and feelings about how reality and life works, and what makes them healthy and sane. just look at peta and people who keep horses, they steal and "Rescue" these animals, only to lock them up and drive them insane in captivity in what little they have, then turn around and kill them when they realize that they don't have a home to go to, or theyre hard to go fetch on the pasture, or they bite or theyre aggressive and don't understand that you love them and are just broken by the big bad animal haters or theyre ruined.
theyre just animals. they aren't people, and the more we remember that, the easier it will be to understand things from their perspective and not ours. and that is what real compassion is; the willingness to care and the dedication and intelligence to do it right
>>7202518
Most of them are poisonous, dude!
>>7198367
Plants can perceive their environment, analyze, produce a complex response and learn too you know?
>>7196521
>That said, picking a mushroom does not harm the mycelium. It's basically like picking an apple from a tree.
The apple is a structure used to carry the seed by being eaten while the mushroom is the reproductive organ of the fungus. It is like how removing a testicle don't harm the animal.
>>7203060
there are environmental and health reasons to stop eating meat too. i'd say people who don't care about animals being killed is a good minority anyway.
>>7199641
This. It's why animal penises are sometimes shaped weird, like barbed cat penises are so the female can't force it out during sex. Or the corkscrew duck penis.
Human penises are shaped in the way they are so they can push other men's semen out of the way.
>>7201134
I don't know about all animals, but dairy cows and meat cows specifically you have to treat really well or dairy cows for example won't even continue to produce milk if they're under a lot of stress. Same with meat cows, they taste better when they're not under a lot of stress and eat more and such. The life of a factory cow is pretty fucking sweet honestly.
>>7203163
The people I've found who respect and understand animals the most are usually people who hunt them or farmers and stuff. All the people I've met who were PETA level were fucking batshit and didn't know anything about animals at all, they would just leave their cats outside to fend for themselves and shit because "it's natural" and the cats would starve to death or get really sick.
Also vets too.
>>7204353
>designed to increase chance of impregnation after sloppy seconds
>evolutionary proof that humans are a cuckspecies
>>7204330
There are more environmental and health reasons to stop being alive.
>>7203444
>The apple is a structure used to carry the seed by being eaten while the mushroom is the reproductive organ of the fungus. It is like how removing a testicle don't harm the animal.
You couldn't be moe incorrect. Read a fucking book. Mushrooms don't even persist for more than a week in almost any species.
Too distant of a species to feel empathy.
With any animal you feel like they're alive and animated. But with plants/trees/mushrooms, they're more like rocks than animated animals.
My take.
Meat eaters limit their empathy to human (mostly)
Vegetarians limit their empathy to plants (mostly)
>>7204363
This is completely wrong
>>7204404
True, but being a vegetarian/ vegan is about reasonably reducing environmental harm and cruelty to animals, not eliminating it entirely. Not buying animal products is easy and feasible, killing yourself to reduce environmental harm is not.
>>7203429
not that one though
>>7198354
I'm a vegan man
>>7196510
how do omnivores justify eating shrimp but "wont eat insects", they're the same shit, shrimp are just insects of the sea. Red meat isn't sustainable at western rates worldwide, so meat eaters all gotta pitch in and eat some bugs sometimes if they want to keep eating the red meat.
>>7204363
because they totally don't drug them out of depression amirite? Breaking an animal mentally doesn't justify harvesting them like plants
>>7196510
Vegetarians have convoluted logic, according to the great Elrond Hubbard tomatoes scream when you slice them.
>>7205131
Sounds fun. If I cut a tomato in two, do both halves scream when I quarter it?
>>7205080
>eat bugs goy
>it's not like we could just have less people, I've gotta sell my wares
>enjoy the crunch, it's good for you goyim. Did you know Africans eat insects? You're already becoming more multicultural goyim, great job.
>Go to bed now goy, you've gotta wake up early tomorrow to work in my factory.
>>7205246
>>7205080
Jews also don't eat pigs. Fishermen used to give Lobsters to the poor because they were looked down upon, not realizing what tasty meat they were giving. Fishermen were only looking for crabs. that attitude changed when they at last tried lobster. :P
Also shellfish and bugs are quite distant and different, if you don't know that then you know nothing of evolution. It's like comparing humans to dolphins.
>>7205328
They did try lobster, it tastes like shit in case you don't know. Rich people saw it as a delicacy since none of us commoners were eating it so they ate it and prices skyrocketed, and the flavor has never improved.
>>7196510
>the mycelium is more like a giant organism and the fruiting bodies are it's reproductive tendrils
That might be a good point if it didn't more or less describe every fruit and vegetable.
>>7205429
You're either cooking it wrong or you are eating the greyish guts that everyone else throws away. Lobster has a much milder flavor than crab and they are both delicious.
>>7205246
There's nothing wrong in eating insects, what's even your point besides /pol/ish gibberish?
Tell me one single thing that's wrong with eating insects aside from "i dun liek"
>>7203034
Rad! Link these posts if this thread is still lingering.
Good luck, man. Take pictures if possible.
I did something I've never ever done before over Christmas. Something that I've always considered terrible. I actually burned a book. In the fireplace. On Christmas night. Why would I do such a thing? Because it was a book someone gave me full of fucking vegan propaganda, that's why. It was supposed to be a book about health (I'm studying to become a nutritionist, which is why this person bought it for me), but about a third of the way into the book, the authors switched from normal talk about health and turned on the "OMG DON'T EAT THE ROTTING CARCASSES OF ABUSED ANIMALS DON'T EAT EGGS EITHER OR DRINK MILK YOU WOULDN'T SUCK YOUR MOTHER'S TITS WOULD YOU SO DON'T DRINK BABY COWS MILK EGGS ARE BAAAAAAAAAD PIGS GET SKINNED ALIVE COWS GET RAPED CHICKENS GET RAPED ANIMAL RAPE ANIMAL RAPE!!!!!!!!!
Yeah....I burned that fucker. Straight up chucked it into the fire.
>>7205429
Just to clarify your backwards thinking, it's actually the opposite. Lobster used to be a poorman's meal which the rich adopted, and it's then when the prices started to increase.
>>7199372
You most definitely need a mentor to go hunting with. And stick to the "safe" genera (i.e. boletes) before you are certain in positive identification.
In my area, about 40% of the shrooms commonly found are "edible", the other half comprises the spectrum from mildly disgusting to death in a few hours. Still, very few are picked commonly, and the more difficult genera (russulas etc.) are picked only by a few skilled hunters.
As a general rule, there are very few toxic boletes, and the ones that are toxic either taste really bad or are very rare. And even those still won't kill you unless you eat a rather large amount. So begin with those and do not touch anything that has gills on the underside, unless you are picking with a very experienced hunetr whom you completely trust.
>>7206605
Oh shit, I forgot the part that's actually relevant to the subject of mushrooms. I also got a mushroom field guide for Christmas. I haven't gone out looking for any yet, and I'm pretty wary of it, really. I want to sign up for field class with an expert first, because I don't want to poison myself.
>>7200925
It's actually quite tasty when unripe. But there's a high chance of misidentification, as it looks almost like any unripe amanita, most of which are deadly.
>>7204829
Still, not picked out of tradition (and fear of poisoning). There are safer and tastier shrooms to pick.
>>7204404
i don't know about you but i'd rather stop eating meat then kill myself.
>>7196510
Shhh, you're going to clue people in to the inherent speciesism of valuing our form of sentience over other kinds.
If we ever foreal meet aliens, we are fucked.
Discussing shit like this moves away from the main reason people are vegetarians. They don't politically agree with the treatment of animals, and following the logic of supply and demand, they attempt to reduce demand by not buying produce conflicting with their viewpoint.
Now people are on japanese cooking forums debating the sentience of mushrooms on behalf of the political choices of vegetarians, while ignoring the main point vegetarians try to point out in refusing to eat meat.
I eat everything, but the topics made from anti-vegan/anti-vegetarian are missing the point so bad that it makes my head hurt. I honestly think that vegans/vegetarians/whateverians are putting more effort into what they do than 99% of people posting against their choices on /ck/
>>7206605
So instead of reading it through and disagreeing with it, you hysterically threw it into the fireplace. Were you afraid the book was gonna hurt you? Were you afraid it was telling you that you were doing something wrong? Were you afraid that it would rustle your jimmies and demand that you take a standpoint in life?
The irony is that you become aware that a book is political towards the subject of food, and as a result you rush to destroy it and then write about it on 4chan in an attempt to gain support. That is so pathetic, lel.
>>7207821
We don't fully understand sentience and consciousness.
>>7207895
I DID read it and disagree with it. That's the point. I read the entire overly-biased, hysterically written propaganda, and decided it wasn't worth being on this earth. Sorry I don't support your hysterical views on food and livestock, you little vegan whore.
>and demand that you take a standpoint in life?
I believe chucking the book in the fireplace GOT MY POINT ACROSS QUITE ACCURATELY.
>>7196510
>and the fruiting bodies are it's reproductive tendrils
And that's the only part you eat. That doesn't kill the mushroom. Vegetarians shouldn't have a problem with that.
>>7204389
>implying its not proof that women have always been sluts
>>7207880
This, sweet jesus this. It's not a fundamentalist religion, you do what you can without making yourself unhappy, you don't have to give away all your possessions if you give to charity.
I don't understand, other species are less important than your own. why would you care so much if they are slaughtered?
I mean, yes we are animals too, but why shouldn't we be greedy assholes with sustainable resources such as meat?
>>7198592
he totally is
>>7203444
that's the definition of harm
>>7209204
Being greedy is generally considered not a virtue.
Do you believe you should eat like a greedy pig and enjoy the most of the life? Or do you believe you should be virtuous man and enjoy foods in moderation?
IMO, being a greedy eater loses out on what it means to savor the taste. If you eat too much of the same thing, you begin to appreciate those things less and less. Mix the menu a bit and you can enjoy those things fully from time to time.
