Why do vegans feel the need to control the diets of others?
There were worldwide talks about climate change recently and there were SO MANY BUTTHURT VEGANS.
They could not stop wining about meat and fish being served.
Global warming is real, but no one has the right to tell NATURAL OMNIVORES to go fucking veg/vegan no matter how much it effects the planet.
Fucking tyrants.
>>7165153
Moral superiority is the only thing that gets their malnourished cocks hard.
they are the prototypes of SJWs
>>7165153
>no matter how much it effects the planet
You don't really condone such a viewpoint, do you?
Veganism is an ethical, moral, and environmental stance. All of which are inherently important, involve everyone on the planet, and mutually beneficial.
Of course people (vegans) are going to be all over it. Doing better shouldn't be punishable via verbal flogging and hyperbolic emotions.
>>7165163
They're all such elitist pretentious fucks.
Acting live saviours of the world.
>>7165174
>Ethical
Debatable
>Moral
Debatable
>Enviromental
True, but as individuals people should have a right to choose what they want to eat. Freedom is the most important thing to an organism and studies have already shown veganism is not as healthy as it seems, especially in growing bodies.
Meat eaters need to start standing up for our own beliefs. We like meat, so we need to start telling factory farmers to go fuck themselves and start producing the better quality meat that comes from animals that led a tolerable life. Better meat at a higher price would be far preferable to the shitty mass tortured meat we get at cheap prices.
>>7165181
Ultimately improving the standards for cattle would almost entirely remove beef/pork from the lower class outside of maybe organ meats.
the poor would be limited to the organ meat of ancient milk cows pretty much, which would taste terrible.
You could probably keep chicken low enough for poor people.
But the poor would not be happy about the removal of beef/chicken from their diets, you'd need to overthrow multiple government to re institute taxes on the rich to allow the poor to afford beef/pork.
>>7165179
>Freedom is the most important thing to an organism
Why does that not apply to the animals that are slaughtered?
By that standpoint I wonder where you would draw the line on those fronts, and not from status quo.
Vegan diets have been around for centuries, they are nothing new, just the buzz about it is in media and word of mouth. Quite the opposite has been found for vegan diets, however because veganism is not a "diet" it varries very widely, and thus cannot simply be used as a blanket statement saying it's all bad. People can fuck up their diet no matter what they are eating, that's not a fault of eating plants.
>>7165194
Why do other carnivores and omnivores get the FREEDOM to kill and eat but not Man?
Because we can think and choose? we can also choose to continue living as omnivores, what gives vegans/vegs the right to try and lord over NATURAL OMNIVORES and tell them what to eat?
>>7165181
I like your style. I also wish more people hunted for their meat.
I'm a vegetarian, but vegan is a bridge too far for me. If I had a good local farm with happy animals I wouldn't mind eating them again.
>would you eat "X" if it tasted like your favorite meat recipe?
nah. the animal sacrifice is what gives it the flavor
how come veggie food doesn't taste good on it's own they gotta masquerade it in pseudo meat flavorings?
>>7165198
Pretty sure it is their right because of that FREEDOM thing you keep spouting.
if vegans really wanted to help, they would try to get cultured meat made more quickly and cheaply than traditional meat instead of going full retardrambo MEAT EATERS ARE LITERALLY THE DEVIL DESTROYING THE EARTH
>>7165181
Scientists should focus a lot more on creating GM meat and poultry while society gets over the fear-mongering attached to GMOs.
>>7165174
Do you check the fluids in your car weekly? Are your tires properly inflated? Do you check your brake pads?
Premature wear from improperly maintained vehicles means vehicles that could have been used for years longer are junked prematurely resulting in a significantly more environmental impact and a larger carbon footprint. Improper maintenance can result in hundreds of hours of wasted labor and thousands of dollars for parts for the want of a $5 metal gasket or a $2 rubber hose. Improper maintenance can also result in significantly worse fuel economy and the production of additional greenhouse gases.
In the worse case scenario improper maintenance can result in automotive accidents and injury or death. Damage has to be repaired, cars have to be replaced, and the resource cost of medical attention, lost productivity or even the loss to society from a lost life.
So tell me, considering that cars are ubiquitous with approximately 8 cars for every 10 people and that on average people spend about 50 years driving, do you perform all your routine automotive maintenance on a weekly basis? It's all part of doing better.
>>7165211
How could they, none of them are STEM.
They all do liberal arts degrees and such,
>>7165192
None of what you said is true. Changing the horrific conditions of factory farms wouldn't increase the price so drastically that they wouldn't be able to eat those things anymore. Poor people can afford humanely raised meat from smaller farms right now. Before grass fed became a meme it was cheaper than grocery store beef.
>>7165198
Because animals products are not necessary for our health, survival, and over all well being.
We have options, animals in their wild and natural habitat do not. Our species can thrive off of plants, therefore any animal products are a luxury dietarily speaking.
Assuming we are talking about standard modernized civilizations, not niche places like Antarctica or bumming it up with Eskimos.
While it is a common trope of the vegan zealot, again that is not something that is exclusive to vegans. But just by putting yourself in their view can you blame them? Countless lives suffering some of the most gruesome "lives" imaginable, only to suffer the hands of their overlords (humans) for a cause that is in vain. There needn't be any blood to live a happy and healthy life.
If you really believe meat is murder, obviously you're going to try to get other people to stop doing it.
>it's none of your business if I beat my kids!
>it's none of your business if I own slaves!
>no one has the right to tell NATURAL OMNIVORES to go fucking veg/vegan
well, at a climate change summit it's about the best suggestion you can make.
>>7165207
It doesn't. . .
Faux meats are for people who grew up with those animal products. Your brain doesn't forget the taste, texture, etc. It's for people who still want to experience that in their foods, but without the unnecessary suffering and death. A lot of vegans don't even eat faux meat, and there are a ton of great tasting and nutritious vegan foods, without any meat influence.
>>7165212
We just need cultured muscle grown in vats -- no animal required, just pure meat. That's very different from gene-spliced animals.
I am veggie and I look forward to the petri dish meat.
>>7165174
Nonsense.
Motte: "factory farms are very cruel and immoral"
Bailey: "killing and eating animals is fundamentally wrong"
The first statement is true and uncontroversial. The second statement is indefensible, especially to the kind of utilitarian who flocks to these events.
It's nothing more than naturalistic fallacy. The mistake being made is to think that the choice is between animals being killed versus animals not being killed, rather than the reality, which is a choice between animals being killed by humans versus animals being killed by disease, predators, injury, exposure, starvation, or something else equally unpleasant. Also, more generally, an overly optimistic view of what life in the wild is like, plus an attribution to animals of human traits, such as a concern for freedom as an abstract concept.
>>7165235
I'm guessing you aren't veggie for health reasons.
It's probably not worth going back to meat, unless maybe they could manipulate the level of saturates.
>>7165237
>which is a choice between animals being killed by humans versus animals being killed by disease, predators, injury, exposure, starvation, or something else equally unpleasant
you're dumb.
99% of those animals wouldn't even exist if we hadn't caused them to be born for the purpose of eating them.
>>7165249
saturated fat is good for you brah.
>>7165213
I would if I had a need for a vehicle, but I live in a very cycling friendly city so there's no reason to have to go through that, and even if so I can catch a taxi.
But yes, for myself anyway I do agree with that, and I would perform all of those tasks. Betterment in all feasible forms is something I advocate, I see no problem with this.
While car emissions do contribute to the overall issue, it is paled by animal agriculture, which is far simpler to manage via where people decide to spend their money.
>>7165153
>Why do vegans feel the need to control the diets of others?
This is a loaded question. I've never heard a vegan trying to make me stop eating meat. People like the ones ITT on the other hand...
>>7165229
>without the unnecessary suffering and death
Suffering, sure - although I hope you agree with me that that's a consequence of factory farming and not inherent to farming in general. But the phrase 'unnecessary death' seems dishonest. It's not like we're talking about humans dying in a war. These chickens or cows or whatever only got to exist at all because they were going to be eaten. It's not like we took a bunch of happy cows and chickens minding their own business and killed them.
Try replacing death in this phrase with life, or lives. 'Unnecessary lives' sounds a lot less like a bad thing to be avoided, but is just as accurate a description, perhaps more accurate.
How is going vegan going to stop global warming, exactly?
>>7165257
No.
>>7165251
I fail to see how that's an argument against creating them. In fact if they're net positive utility, which I expect animals raised in decent conditions will be, that's an argument in favor of creating more of them - it makes meat eating that bit more moral. If you are choosing between two ways to produce a meal, both costing the same, but one involves a happy chicken getting to exist for a while and the other one doesn't, the first is the more moral choice from a utilitarian perspective.
>>7165266
Factories and transportation produce a lot of pollution.
But ultimately higher demand for produce in a vegan society would still require both those things, the change in pollution would likely be less significant than people say.
Arguably methane from farts too, but that's bullshit.
>>7165235
>I am veggie and I look forward to the petri dish meat.
hey asshole
theres a lot more to an animal than just muscle
blood (no, halal meat does not get rid of all the blood, don't be fucking stupid), membranes, tendons, fat, vitamins, amino acids, vital minerals (iron, potassium, all sorts of iodides)
Animals put a shitload of effort into being edible, and you have the balls to think some square in a labcoat can just shove some protein in a vat and make nutritious meat come out. Fuck you. And get a goddamn job.
>>7165265
Because regardless of the conditions of the animal, they are still being slaughtered in the end.
The same could be said for any human. Total dominion over something that has a yearning to live and experience emotion doesn't sit right, nor is it needed or wanted by the recipient.
Even in some science fiction standard where the animals were in complete bliss before their demise, and they felt no pain, fear, anguish, we are still removing their lives, and that will to live.
I personally don't want to die, I don't think the majority of people do, especially not in deplorable conditions, and neither do those animals.
>>7165268
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6538617
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942407
Maybe you don't care about testosterone, but saturated fat in healthy quantities (which isn't a ridiculous amount, mind you) are very important for hormone production
I'm not a vegan but I see people like OP doing this type of thing a lot. Starting threads about how "winy" (whiny btw.) Vegans are not seeing the irony in their own statement. I see vegan threads derailed by people saying that they hate preachy vegans while they themselves are preaching about how man was supposed to eat meat due to having canine teeth. Using that argument ultimately opens up to debate as to why we have tail bones and organs that our body no longer needs. Live and let live. It's not hard.
Why don't hunters get their meat at the grocery store like everyone else, where no animals are harmed?
>>7165301
Why don't people bait with oc instead of regurgitating the same old shit?
>>7165307
How was that bait?
>>7165308
(YOU)
>>7165308
When you pretend to ignore even the most basic of logic, you're a troll. It's bait. Your attempts are so fucking sad that you literally have no defense except "oh well show me where I went wrong" rather thank continuing your attack showing actual illogical arguments others use
just shut the fuck up and quit lowering the quality of posts on this board
>>7165317
I didn't make that post. I just think people like you who claim troll every time they see a piece of obvious satire (even if it isn't particularly funny) are sad and pathetic. Just as bad as trolls. You need to smarten up.
>>7165298
Rather than risk all the horrible diseases that come with a diet of saturated fat, you could just eat more fats that are good for you. Not that you actually need the minimal testosterone boost.
>>7165327
It is a copy pasta troll post though...
>>7165327
Nah. You need to shut the fuck up and quit pretending your superior or teaching any lessons here.
>that wasn't me
You're a shit poster. You're all the same. Acting as if you're doing a service isn't the same as doing a service.
>>7165341
You should return that knobby dildo. It's really making your ass hurt.
>>7165347
No you're just on the wrong board.
>>7165295
I'm very glad I got the chance to live, even if I do die at some point. No reason to think a chicken would think otherwise if it was being kept in decent conditions. Also, many of the reasons we consider death a bad thing when it happens to humans don't apply to animals. Chickens and cows don't have hopes and dreams, they don't have relationships to the extent we do, they don't care about freedom.
Do your antinatalist views extend beyond the animals that humans create? Would you advocate killing all animals, wild as well as captive, so that the number of them that have to suffer death is minimized? If not, why not?
>>7165355
You definitely are on the wrong board. It doesn't say food, cooking and hurt pussies
>>7165366
Don't you have a Ramen thread to start newfriend?
>>7165361
I assume you mean modern factory animals, because otherwise they do feel those things. While exceedingly rare, there are places that house these animals not for food, but as companions. And they certainly do look forward to life day to day, and taking that away is awful.
>They don't care about freedom
I'm sure they don't want to be confined at all, especially in the manner they most commonly are, otherwise we wouldn't have to contain them to begin with because they "wouldn't care."
I don't advocate we kill any of them. Animals are going to die, that is a certainty, just as ourselves. The issue is that we don't need to have our hands forcably at such a disservice.
>>7165258
Car emissions are only a fraction of a problem. Consider all the factories to manufacture cars and parts, the components that make up those parts, and the raw material that goes into those components. Think of all the energy that goes into their manufacture, shipment, warehousing, and the support infrastructure and all of it's attendant costs.
Although it is not an exact correspondence there is a correlation between the dollar value of an item and the resources that were investing into it's creation and availability. Lets say that a $25,000 car has approximately 10 year use life. The difference between neglect and proper care in years is thousands of dollars, easily on the same scale as yearly expenditures on food. If everyone took proper care of their cars and thus extended the usable lives by 5 years the cost savings and the environmental impact would be tremendous.
>>7165391
I whole heartily agree.
the pendulum has swung the other way, there are more people complaining about militant vegans than militant vegans
>>7165402
That's what I've seen.
>>7165398
This is one of the reasons I discount environmental concerns as arguments for veganism. Although I will not argue that there are real environmental benefits from veganism, based on behavioral patterns it is obvious that for most vegans this is an incidental benefit and not a primary motivation, if there was no benefit there would likely be no change in behavior.
Actually while researching agricultural land use and productive yields I found that consumption of penned pork and goat actually improves productive yields because they don't need forage or to free-range. That can make use of unfarmable land that can't be used for crops, to grow fodder or as pasture land. The problem of course is this leaves ethical concerns on the table.
>>7165153
>global warming is real
>>7165211
>thinking anyone would let cultured meat invalidate the farming industry or become a viable alternative
>>7165277
Vegetables don't produce shitlakes.
>>7165153
vegans being retarded? wow color me shocked.
>>7165456
>it won't happen because of my greentext and reaction image
>>7165466
vegetables dont fertilize land
>>7165484
i'm not a vegan but... compost
>>7165518
Composting that much plant matter would be insane. Feces is the best natural fertilizer you can get.
>>7165518
i would use vegetables to farm vegetables thousands of pounds of vegetables compost to grow vegetables millions of vegetables on vegetables from vegetables just vegetables forever forever vegetables
>>7165181
This.
I am perfectly fine with paying more for good, quality meat.
>>7165388
>taking that away is awful.
You're taking it away after giving it to them in the first place.
I would rather get to exist for a while than not get to exist at all.
Again - why is an animal being killed by a human any different than it being killed by anything else, other than that the human has the ability to make its death more swift and painless than, say, death by starvation, or being eaten alive by a predator?
Soil degradation is a far far bigger issue than ABLOO BLOO WIDDLE DIDDLE MAMMAL SUFFERING
>>7165179
I think having a habitable planet is more important
>>7165277
Methane is a strong greenhouse gas
Nice denial
>>7165225
I can understand vegans who are all preachy about it for this reason, and I can understand street preachers for the same reason. If you believe this is true, then it logically follows that if you have any moral fiber you'll try to stop people from doing this shit.
I don't agree with the viewpoint but I can respect it on that level.
>>7165174
>Veganism is an ethical, moral, and environmental stance.
>>This is what vegetarians actually believe
Ethical stance - Bullshit.
Plants have a different set of survival tools, but they can recognize when they are in jeopardy, and try to extricate themselves from danger, just like animals do. Try placing a heat lamp right on top of a plant, and it will try to avoid it, because like animals, they don't want to die either. Vegans are simply using the same moral arguments for plants that people use to justify eating animals....
"Yea, but it's a cow, it's not human, so it's morally right."
"Yea, but it's a plant, it's not an animal, so it's morally right."
No.
Difference.
Whatsoever.
Moral stance - see above.
Environmental stance - Bullshit.
The land clearance required to create enough space to grow crops is detrimental to the environment, as it destroys countless indigenous plant, animal, and insect species. The water requirement is excessive and wasteful, as are the chemical fertilizers used to replenish and fortify the soil. Throw in the chemical pesticides required to ensure a harvest, and the notion that farming vegetables is less detrimental to the environment than raising calorie dense animals for meat is delusional, at best.
Regardless, I don't care what you eat, but don't pretend you're not killing something to survive, or having an impact on the environment, because you are. Just like the rest of us...
