>>8883806
>a thread to discuss the influence of religious upbringing on lolita/jfash/cosplay could be interesting, anon
>make the thread and folk shall post therein.
Making this thread for anon. Any other anons had crazy religious upbringings? How does dealing with family affect your hobby?
What does this have to do with cgl
>>8883901
Family pretty religious but they also don't give a shit as long as it's not murder.
>Thanks uncle you crazy bastard, you!
>>8883905
>What does this have to do with cgl
Catholic themes in lolita garments? Revealing outfits in cosplay or gyaru fashion? Trying to incorporate, for example, a hijab into your coord?
Stuff that's legitimately caused some ruckus in the community. Lurk more.
>>8883901
I live in a muslim country and I wear gothic. I don't really care what others think but I only use small accessories like cross shaped necklaces and earrings. I'm also into revealing cosplays and it created some problem with my family even though they are not religious at all, they are just conservative. I also get interesting remarks from my peers on my revealing cosplays but nothing too bad
>did you have underwear under that lol I bet you didn't
>wow how'd you get those boobs?! you dont have boobs like that!
>etc
My family is basically a-religious so I feel super awkward wearing anything with crosses or nun themes. It just feels wrong and I hate it because there are so many good designs with crosses.
Also I grew up in Mormonville which definitely impacted how I feel about showing skin.
>>8883901
I think my dad is skeptical about lolita, but my mom's cool with it. She's super happy about the whole modesty thing. (As am I!)
They think cosplay is weird, though. It'll take a bit of time for me to convince them it's OK. They're not the Westboro Baptist Church or anything, but they're definitely weirder out by it. It's funny, because they're completely fine with me larping.
>>8883901
I'm from a Muslim background. My parents aren't that strict and they take a "well we can't control you now you're an adult but you know how you should behave by now" so I just try to keep things on the slightly more modest end, long sleeves etc, and avoid crosses. I've noticed that while my mother doesn't voice outright disapproval about me wearing knee-length dresses (complains if something is short for lolita though), she always compliments me more when I wear something of a slightly longer length or wear boots. I'm not sure if that's only because of the modesty thing or because she prefers me to look elegant and mature.
I have a Catholic grandma as well and she really likes nonprint pieces, especially anything white. She thinks it looks like Communion dresses.
Of course my family would kick off if I wore an even slightly revealing cosplay. Another relative wanted to wear a cosplay of a generic school uniform character and got vetoed because it featured a miniskirt.
My grandparents went nuts over me wearing lolita despite it being a completely cute, innocent and modest fashion. All they could think about was that it was so superficially non-sexual that it must be totally sexual, I am pedophile bait and GLBs are blasphemous because they contain the word 'bible'. They were freaked out majorly by religious themes and percieved obsession with Virgin Mary. I am serious, they had a blazing row with my parents and I (I was 12-13) for 4 hours over this when we visited them one Christmas (we never see them) and here I was trying to explain that you can sexualise a doorknob for example, it doesn't mean the doorknob is a devil worshipping slut.
My boyfriend's mother is a vicar and is weirded out by it, but at least my boyfriend pointed out at one gathering that I was dressed more classily than her, who judged my black, pinstriped jsk (it actually looks more like a normie) and secretary blouse as 'childish' and 'embarrassing' when she had her cleavage out and wears brightly printed skirts.
I gave away my first volume GLB because it causes so many fights in the house whenever I left it lying around and it upset someone. All my Pokemon collectibles got thrown out when I was younger because church members said it was demonic and I'm still bitter about it at 23. They fucking sent someone over in white robes and incense to 'cleanse' our house and made me fast every month and go to bible study with that woman and her son. If they were so sanctimonious maybe her spawn wouldn't have molested me at that stupid bible study. As soon as she guilt tripped us made us throw out hundreds worth of books, clothes, cds etc. she fucking renounced christianity herself.
People think of cosplay/other hobbies and of lolita as 'crazy' endeavors and a lot of lolitas had odd or difficult upbringings, but I'm convinced we gravitate toward these things because we figured out it's actually all the 'normies' who are crazy
>grew up my entire life catholic
>catholic school, catholic friends, etc.
>around ~20 started to question faith with logic and reason
>realized how oppressive the church has been towards certain things in general and didn't want to be associated with that
>realized how fucked the world is and how little organized religion helps
>realized a lot of organized religion is egocentric
>by ~22 completely dropped organized religion
>still saw a lot of beauty and history behind religious themes
>I still like cathedrals, stained glass, and most religious symbols
>can't fucking STAND seeing crucifixes on prints
>really don't like nunlita either
What do people like about crucifixes? I can obviously see why religious lolitas want them, but I have non religious friends who wear them too. Is it just the fact that they're execution devices like guillotines, so it's kinda trendy to wear them ironically or..?
Same thing with nunlita. I can see why religious lolitas would like emulating that but I really don't find it too stylish (it's not supposed to be). Woe to the person who hasn't lived in a catholic system who believes nuns are moralistic and pure like what lolita should be.
>>8884090
I'm super non-religious and I like nun dresses. Not symbolism or anything, I just like the pattern and general shape.
as for crucifixes, I'm not sure, is a cross a crucifix or is it cross with jesus? I like gothic feel of crosses but I wouldn't want to carry a picture of a dying person on me honestly. Well this goes for all painting dresses with faces actually. I don't want a person on my dress in general.
>>8884101
I'm from a catholic background so for me I always conflate the two regardless, but in general: A cross is just the symbol whereas a crucifix traditionally has jesus hanging off it. For me I can't really splice them because of what they represent, so I just consider them the same thing.
When I took copyediting for awhile I felt better defining the cross as a 'dagger' in typography, but still. It just bothers me.
>>8884106
Well, actually cross symbol is much older than christianity, you can think like that if it makes you feel better about them.
I was raised in a Catholic household, My mom is fine with cosplay, she just doesn't get why people want to wear revealing costumes. As for Lolita and EGA, she's fine with it. She says she would rather see me dressed up nice than how I used to dress in my teenage years.
I don't really see an issue with nun Lolita, church, stained glass prints, other religious themes, ect are used.
>My question is, why are crosses widely accepted in Lolita, when penticles are not.
>>8884114
The reason I think that anon is because again I was brought up catholic and then only ever knew them secondly as a torture device. Please educate me on other origins.
>>8884028
How come your head hasn't been chopped off yet? Like how are you getting away with it? And how come you don't encounter radicals?
>>8884119
That particular cross is a Druid symbol. It was around before Catholicism was introduced to Ireland.
>>8884195
They might be in Malaysia where Muslims are held to a different standard than the rest of the country.
>>8884201
I like it, but I think my point still stands that the crosses on prints are mostly indicative of christianity. Though I'd love to see a celtic print.
I grew up in a super christian household, but both my parents were pretty chill when I was 14 and told them I've never really been interested in religion. I guess they thought I was just being rebellious, but I'm still not religious. I do have an obsession with crosses, though. Every year for christmas, my mother got a new cross necklace and they were all so beautiful and sparkly to me. I associate crosses with my mother more than anything else. I recently asked her why she was cool with my thing for crosses when I wasn't religious, and her reply was really sweet.
>"Well, as long as you are wearing a cross, He's able to watch over you and it makes me feel better."
>>8884076
>People think of cosplay/other hobbies and of lolita as 'crazy' endeavors and a lot of lolitas had odd or difficult upbringings, but I'm convinced we gravitate toward these things because we figured out it's actually all the 'normies' who are crazy
THIS
>>8884203
Oh I didn't know that, thought maybe they were in a place like Europe where Muslims are just really common but yeah, I just immediately thought of all the places considered Muslim countries where women can't go out or do things, etc.
>>8884210
My name is an old celtic name, literally everyone butchers it and no one's ever heard of it. I'd love some celtic prints too.
>>8883901
Anyone got the kawaii bible study secret that was posted on btb a while back?
I kind of want to be friends with all the other ex JW lolitas in the general thread, it's so rare to meet others
>>8884210
>crosses on prints are mostly indicative of christianity.
Christianity's influence on art, literature, and fashion is strong and inescapable. Goths often reacted against the more oppressive aspects of cultural/political Christianity (the Religious Right of the Cold War era) while appreciating some of the more dark and beautiful symbols it inundated culture with, thus the romanticization of symbols like devils, vampires, churches and graveyards, and yes crosses.
even now, modern horror films still use Christian symbology because the associations are so culturally powerful that you don't need to be a believer or to have been raised by them to be familiar with and affected by the language and visuals of faith.
many Christian symbols are emblems of power. using a cross to me is not unlike using a crown. i don't need to support monarchy to feel the artistic power of a crown or scepter, and i do not need to believe in the Christian god to appreciate the aesthetics of a cross, stained glass, or Bible. lolita is a very artistic fashion and religion and art have a long and rich history.
>>8884260
Here's my email anon! I really like talking to other people about their experiences with this religion because growing up in that ridiculous strict environment really caused problems for me and when people find out, they always talk about how great all the JWs they meet are and I have to hold my tongue because their gimmick is being nice to people.
>>8884276
Even so there's people who appreciate aristocracy and regality while finding crowns tacky. As I can appreciate what symbolism modern society has adopted from christianity while still finding specific symbols distasteful.
>raised IFB, homeschooled
>traditional "homeschool uniform" for girls was a denim jumper with a modest shirt underneath
>totally divorced from current fashion trends, might have cute motifs but overall very plain and often frumpy
>pic related
the effect of my childhood dresscode on my current lolita life is undeniable.
>>8884293
wrong pic! meant this one. that one is more kooky.
I was raised the worst Christan household.
I never knew happiness until I was free of them.
>>8884370
it's funny because, as someone who like >>8884367 was raised in a Christian hell, when comm members mention being Christians i get a bit fearful of them. logically i know most Christians are decent, but i feel threatened by them because of past religious abuse.
in lolita: seeing crosses on prints has no affect on me, but somehow rosaries feel wrong. the more accurate they are the more out of place they seem as a fashion accessory.
>>8884373
I am the same way, anytime I find someone who is religious and openly talking about it makes me nervous. The only time it doesn't bother me is when the person is gay or they do something obvious that separates them from whatever religion they're apart of.
However finding ex JWs is always super exciting.
>>8884418
>The only time it doesn't bother me is when the person is gay or they do something obvious that separates them from whatever religion they're apart of.
*a part of, "apart" has the opposite meaning, fyi.
and i feel the same way. i need assurance they are empathetic, nonjudgemental human beings who are not out to take rights away from good people before i can relax.
I was a goth / gothic lolita as a teenager while my extended family were all hardcore straightlaced Southern Baptists. Luckily they just kind of saw me as the black sheep of the family and only really made comments on what I wore. I was cool with that since I didn't have to put up with that all the time.
Now I've mellowed out to otome while my Baptist cousins have all left the church, gotten tattoos, piercings, dyed black hair or have gone super slutty. Plus, I'm the only one with degrees and a good job. The irony.
I like crosses because I like religious artwork, though I do have to be careful not to wear them around religious members of the family. Other than that it hasn't really messed with how I view them.
>>8883998
Go to fucking /pol/ with this bullshit
>>8884253
>I literally know nothing of the world
Found the Burgerclap
>>8884050
Oh, forgot to mention that my extremely Methodist grandma loves the fashion! She tells me all about how she used to wear similar dresses when she was young.
>>8884101
I would like painting dresses if they weren't so Europe-themed all the time
>>8884259
I'm tempted to throw some Jesus memes in here but that's too far OT
>>8884090
I don't like the fad of nunlita but I do like the understated elegance of Nameless Poem, however I'm scared of how I might feel when I wear it- that it's sacrilege, I'm unworthy and all the guilt will haunt me. Then there's the association with the type of nuns from Magdalene Laundries and the convent my grandma grew up in. Then there's offending my bf's mother who is a vicar and often feels I'm outdressing her and that dres is basically a sexed up version of her robes. But it's so cute and simple to coord.
>>8884082
Seriously, thankyou. I'm still sore about the 3D ceramic pikachu coffee mug that I never got to use because my mother said it might be worth something one day.
I'll never know. But I did manage to save some cards, a burger king keychain and my Pokemon Red. Mother hid it from me in a jar full of crap for 10 years, then I found it and hid it again immediately.
May your path be lined with hugs, anon
>>8884592
>*a part of, "apart" has the opposite meaning, fyi
I was on my phone, but thanks..
I grew up in a very conservative Christian town. I was openly nonreligious and got a lot of shit for it...like people I barely knew would come up to me screaming that I was a devil-worshipper. It was pretty bad.
Now I appreciate the beauty in religious prints and symbols, but I just can't feel comfortable wearing them. I actively try to avoid any overt religious symbols in what I wear, even small things like cross jewelry. I mean, if I love a print and there's a tiny cross in the background, it's not a big deal, but I still try to avoid anything noticeable. It's kinda dumb, but I just don't feel like I should be wearing the symbols of a religion I am not a part of. For me it's like wearing the t-shirt of a political candidate I don't support. Even if I liked the design, I wouldn't feel right doing it.
Nothing against other people wearing them, through. Because I really do think they can be beautiful.
>>8884118
Crosses = mysterious gothic association, brings to mind misty churches and romance more than just religion most of the time
Pentacles = trashy mallgoth with bad makeup, associated more with 3edgy5u tweens than religion or romance. Also, crosses have been around in Japan a lot longer than pentacles, and then there's the obvious devil worship association, which isn't really what most people would want to associate with lolita fashion.
I'm religious and conservative about it and it really annoys me when people who claim to be "swamp witches" (you know the kind of pagan I'm talking about, yes, the annoying kind that thinks bagging on all religion is a cool thing to do) wear nun Lolita and crosses.
>>8884618
>Southern Baptist
I feel your pain, and I wasn't even brought up as one. Craziest aunt of the family 'was reborn as a true Christian' when she stumbled across a SB church in her area, even from a distance she managed to become 100x more insane than she already was.
Also, are all SBs hellbent on being holier than thou at every opportunity? Half of any conversation with her is 'As a devoted Christian who loves Jesus with all my heart I feel that if you converted and saw the light your life would change because Jesus and God help all believers' and ended with 'Lol you don't believe welp guess it's Hell for you then'. No matter the topic, it was the same damn formula.
She doesn't like lolita either, she freaks the fuck out about my sinful fetish wear and surreptitiously checks any stained glass stuff I have for depictions of sin.
She also had a massive freakout when I showed her Nameless Poem, and made the pastor's wife call me to make sure I wasn't being tempted by the devil to wear something that 'openly mocked her faith'.
I'm Jewish so even though I think some cross themed dresses are beautiful I cant ever get myself to buy them. My parents wouldn't be mad, but they'd definitely try and make me feel weird or guilty over it, and even without that I'd just feel uncomfortable. That's probably the only way my religion affects my jfashion though.
>>8884367
This makes me sad, anon. I know that feel. I'm glad you're free.
All Christianity ever did for me was choke me and suffocate me. I've never experienced abuse, but it feels almost like Christianity was in and of itself, the root of all issues I ever went through.
>>8884987
I'm starting to see some pastel goth stuff using the star of david - how do you feel about that?
>>8885036
Eh, maybe. I'm not really into pastel goth though.
I really can't see the star of David fitting into lolita at all, I think it's too sharp or something. And I'd probably feel even weirder wearing a star of David in an alternative fashion, it would kind of feel like I'm disrespecting it or like showing off"lookie me I'm Jewish" Not that it would be wrong to, just feels weird to me.
>>8885071
Or y'know, it hearkens back to that awkward time period in the 1930s.
>shit did I just invoke godwin's law
>>8884698
We really do need some Murica pride lolita dresses. I'd love to see this beaut on a JSK.
>>8884195
Basically this >>8884203 not Malaysia but very similar
90%-80% of people are muslim but most of them say they are muslim when they are asked and that's all. Only small percentage of them are extremists.
Also I believe situation is worse in rural areas but big cities are mixed enough so you can get away with stuff. I also have bright green hair so cross accessories are smallest of my problems I suppose.
>>8884090
It's just pretty. Crosses are pretty. I am as atheist as you can get (most of the people here are atheist/agnostic or really lowkey religious), but I love holy symbols of every religion, temples and religious art. Maybe it's because I was raised in a historical city and learned so much about gothic architecture as a child ? Plus I find religious symbolic (cross, moon, star etc) soothing because it evocate calm, empty places and meditation.
Though the whole torture device way of thinking is pretty accurate for rehular goth, and if I actually get crosses tattoo it will be with this kind of aesthetic in mind.
I think this is an interesting thread, so I'd like to chime in to share my personal feelings and experiences!
I don't have any religion (I guess that makes me atheist but I prefer not calling myself that). I live in a predominately Christian area. My family went to church through my childhood but I never felt any connection to the religion and for the most part my family isn't religious. So I learned about Christianity as a child and understand the symbolism and stories, but that's as far as it goes.
I think religious and cultural symbolism is beautiful even though I'm atheist. My feelings are along with >>8885354, and >>8884276 and they've put it more eloquently than I can. I think that even if you don't have the same faith, you can still find a sense of solace in the symbols and places, just because they are so beautiful and rich in history and culture.
I LOVE crosses (I don't like crucifixes). I think the are gorgeous and elegant and like some others have said, they are a very old symbol that's not necessarily Christian. I was given a few very beautiful cross necklaces by a Christian friend of my family, and I really cherish them despite my lack of faith. I love the look of Rosaries, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable wearing one because I'm aware they are used in ceremony. I also think Nun Lolita is beautiful but I can understand why some may be offended by that and I'm not sure I would be comfortable wearing it.
Because of my lack of faith, I do feel uncomfortable with religious symbols or themes in Lolita when they are very attention grabbing. I have no problem with anything that's simple or understated though. For example, in >>8884718 I would be okay with all the dresses except for the top left.
>>8884852
Boo. My coworker told me his poor disabled brother was pretty much taken advantage of by some old JW lady. She was throwing away his video games and stuff and the family had to step in and tell her to knock it off.
>>8885160
>Also I believe situation is worse in rural areas but big cities are mixed enough so you can get away with stuff.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the explanation!
>>8885419
Yeah, they'll do that. Growing up I had a lady actually yell at me because I forwarded some chain email to her kid (a friend of mine). She was ass-pained cause it mentioned "good luck" and everybody knows that Satan is the "god of luck" and so that chain email was demonic. And then she told me I wasn't allowed to talk to my friend (her kid) anymore. I was eleven.
Whoever mentioned their shtick of having everybody act super nice is spot on- it's like an actual tactic they encourage. It hides the crazy.
>>8885563
>Whoever mentioned their shtick of having everybody act super nice is spot on- it's like an actual tactic they encourage. It hides the crazy.
Haha that was me too. I know about that because for like 7 years I had to go door to door with them. They rehearse speeches and stuff and at their kingdom hall meetings they do special "talks" where two people get in stage and pretend to have a bible study and they act out situations so they can be fully prepared to cover their assessment when dealing with people who seem skeptical of their religion.
It's so cringeworthy and kind of creepy honestly.
>>8885577
>assessment
I said asses but this makes sense as well? Thanks phone once again for making me look dumb.
I grew up Jewish in a Jewish area, so I really laughed when I saw this print. It's lovely, but the Hebrew is totally mixed up on it so it's pretty much nonsense.
>I would love to wear it just to see everyone look confused trying to read it.
>Can only imagine people who can't read it thinking how mystic Hebrew looks.
I don't consider myself Jewish anymore (She says posting on shabbath night) but I'd never wear prints with obvious crosses on them because it'd feel too weird. Which is a pity because I love stained glass prints and 99% of them have crosses on them somewhere.
>>8885071
I'm holding out for something like Meta's Dim Light featuring a Menorah. I agree the star seems to sharp or pointy or something to quite work in a print.
>>8883901
How many times do we have to have this same conversation.
>>8884367
this. well, i had some happiness, but mostly despair and fear.
i was only allowed Christian entertainment as well. i went from Steven Curtis Chapman and Newsboys straight to Dir en grey and Malice Mizer when i got Limewire and a measure of privacy.
i escaped at age 20 and have been playing catchup ever since. i cannot relate to people my age who grew up with Pokemon and Harry Potter and other things which were forbidden to me. i was homeschooled so i had no social skills and believed i might be autistic, because i could not understand or interact with others.
when i began to cosplay, i chose shy and skittish characters and felt exposed in my first cosplays that did not have masks. wearing bright colors felt strange and my jfash is all muted, dark colors without prints or words. my closet looks Puritan.
The only real problems I've run into as a Christian who's into cosplay and Jfash:
>Trying to find modest characters to cosplay
>Trying to find modest skirts and dresses outside of lolita
>Not being able to weeb out with my friends, who are more conservative.
They're definitely not awful problems like some anons itt have, though.
>>8885784
Also, modest clothing outside of Jfash is piss easy. You're probably looking in the wrong shops.
>>8885764
Yes! Exactly! I was beaten because Pokémon "endorsed animal cruelty". There was no winning in that household. It was just pain ontop of pain of never being accepted, especially with peers thanks to no internet being allowed. It took about 12 years to get my own life under control but once the dust settled they got cancer and I hit the lottery. Karma's a bitch. As an adult I just cringe at all their failures and try not to make the same.
>>8885080
Dang, how could I not realize that this was where my subliminal negative feelings about wearing a star of David came from
>>8885683
Would you wear a print with correct hebrew on it? I think that might be pretty. Ive pretty much forgotten how to read it since learning Japanese which is probably sacrilege or something lol...
>>8885834
If the Hebrew on it was correct I'd seriously consider getting the dress because it's a lovely print&design. I don't mind the extra strange looks I'd get for having Genesis quotes all over me, lolita get's enough looks and questions either way.
>A part of me would've loved to wear it to religious family events.
>>8885824
>Believe that something endorses cruelty
>Better beat them to show them the error of their ways!
Jesus christ.
>>8885577
The fun thing is the "special talks" where they act out how to convert people are only for women. The men get to actually give sermons, women are only allowed on stage to play act out things. It pissed me off.
My entire family- like, generations and generations and all the branches of my cousins even- were all born and raised in that religion so I was pretty much forced into it from birth until I was old enough (read: 18) to fuck off.
I think it bypasses cringeworthy and creepy and goes straight into cult- they do a lot of thought and behaviour control and try to isolate people.
Some of the fun things I've been told by people in the religion: Dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to trick people, sleeping naked will invite demons to rape you, God won't allow anyone to be sad in his paradise so if someone you love doesn't make it, then he'll just make you forget them so you won't be sad.
>>8885904
>if someone you love doesn't make it, then he'll just make you forget them so you won't be sad
this is the creepiest thing I've ever heard.
btw quran's heaven description is pretty shitty too, it's filled with 1000 virgins, there are lots of rivers and "shades" and who cares for that stuff? my heaven is watch anime read sci-fi/fantasy errday and all the burando
lol quran also says that if you are female and you have sex in heaven, you immediately turn back being a virgin again. so everytime you have sex, you are a virgin. WHO DA FUCK WANTS THAT? I SPENT 6 MONTHS TRYING TO HAVE SEX COMFORTABLY, VIRGIN AGAIN? NO THANKS.
>>8885904
>Dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to trick people
Oh, I was told this too!!
>God won't allow anyone to be sad in his paradise so if someone you love doesn't make it, then he'll just make you forget them so you won't be sad.
I wonder if this is what they told my mom when she started questioning her faith. Her first daughter died and I think that played a part in her being impressionable when someone knocked on her door. She was just casually studying the bible when she read something that made her worry she wouldn't get to see her dead baby in the paradise on earth... it's really fucked up but I was hoping she'd leave the group but she just stayed strong. They always get to her.
As I got older I became really creeped out by the whole "paradise on earth" thing. So I have to spend eternity on a world wide commune picking berries with a bunch of stuck up JWs? None of the music or books or video games or movies i like? No one I actually like will be there? No fucking thanks
>>8884972
I've been to churches for a lot of denominations (thanks to my parents making do with the only English speaking church in whatever area we moved to, it was kind of a losing battle) and definitely noticed that the SBs do have a real tendency to be more judgey and in-groupy than a lot of the other mainline Protestant churches, at least the predominantly white Gulf Coast-area SBs I knew. It's like the Regina George of Calvinism. And new converts to the cause are always the worst. Luckily my family is all generations-old hands at the SB thing, so the worst I got was the ambient disapproval, decorative Jesus tabletop fountains, Christian Contemporary in the car, and Baptist stories (like at one of the weddings, the preacher spent the entire time talking about wifely submission. ENTIRE TIME.).
Episcopalians, however, didn't mind me around, and I actually learned a ton about world religion and got to debate doctrine at a Presbyterian church. The Lutherans had the best food, though. The stereotype is true.
Going back to Lolita and religion, thinking about it again, I think I don't have a bad association with crosses because Lolita cross design is really, really different from the clean, contemporary looks a lot of Protestant jewelry favors. Which might be where I developed a dislike for department store-looking jewelry instead...
>>8884639
It's a discussion about religion and how it affects your cosplay and/or jfashion.
Not the other anon, but why is that so hard to understand? How many people in /pol/ are going to give a fuck about jfashion? Cgl is so fucking dumb sometimes,
I swear to god(now my post is relevant)
I was raised a Catholic but like, not in a crazy repressive or even mildly strict way, more in a "we're going to make you sometimes go to church and have a First Communion because it'll make the grandparents happy and everyone does it" kinda way. And I went to Catholic school for three years, so I can't help but to agree with everyone saying that nuns are definitely not... pure and virtuous.
I guess I feel like it has some influence on how I dress? I'm not religious, or even remotely spiritual, but I really like visiting churches, reading hagiography or theology and learning about the history of the Church. I do find that a lot of catholic inspired Lolita pieces are a bit tacky, not because they're sacrilegious or the likes but just because slapping a crucifix onto something seems a bit like a sloppy attempt to be edgy to me. I would, however, totally wear a Saint-Francis of Assisi print if that ever was a thing.
>>8886105
I tried to explain this to my mother so many times but she just doesn't get it. It's part of what makes it a religion full of gullible idiots. They can't grasp that not everyone would want that.
Reading these stories makes me sad...I grew up in a strict-ish Christian home, and I'm still a Christian, but I was always taught to love your neighbor...
I do have some angst about not being able to read/ watch Harry Potter, or Pokemon, or things of that sort. Like, if I brought home a book that's cover was too "witchy" or magicish, I would be banned from it. But it was really inconsistent, so I read tons of fantasy books and was obsessed with Greek mythology and Percy Jackson, and would talk about Greek gods aaaaalllll the time. They weren't even necessarily stereotypical other than that though--I went trick or treating every year, listened to secular music, and watched more than my fair share of tv and movies. I'm sure my parents would have wanted me to be more interested in Christian fiction (Is Evangelion and Supernatural close enough...?) and music, but instead they got a weeb who listens to musicals and jpop.
Honestly overall I had a really great childhood, even if I do regret not taking part in some popular things at the time. But I do think that their faith, and now mine, have helped rather than hindered overall.
Catholic-raised, still very much so.
My parents were always fine with me liking what was popular. My older brother read all the Harry Potter books, and I've played more dozens of hours of Pokemon than I can count. We aren't out in the country, so evangelical hivemind never really hit me that hard. I do think that there are certain problems with American Christianity, but that's a different discussion.
I'll put it like this. I'm a guy, and a relatively small one; so I could maybe pass if I crossplayed and put enough effort into it. I've entertained the thought before, and I've already cosplayed male versions of girl characters before with no problem. If I ever did do a full crossplay, I think that I'd be concerned more with how it'd just be awkward and embarrassing in general to explain should someone find out, as opposed to it being "sinful" in any real way. The end-all wouldn't be the religious aspect, nor would it even really present an objective issue.
Religion is something I was basically doing for my parents. I'm a doubting Thomas and have made my own peace with whatever influences my intuition. I can't say I'm not religious because I carry much of the same values growing up Methodist and have added a lot of Jewish knowledge from my best friend.
I have no problem with religious themes as long as I find it tasteful and not gaudy.
>>8886524
Same here, my mom didn't let me read Harry Potter until one of my friends (who I can only describe as "pastor's daughter" even though she isn't) read it. Then she was alright.
I was raised Catholic and both sides of my family are Catholic. My father's side is definitely more low key about it but my mother is a mass every Sunday (and holy days of obiligation) kind of person.
While at first I went along with everything, I began to question a lot of the teachings of the Catholic Church when I got older. Still I was forced to go through confirmation or be kicked out. (I thought it was disrespectful to "confirm" a belief you don't really have)
My mother is very sensitive when it comes to crosses and religious symbols. No clothes with crosses. No religious symbols. Definitely no wearing a rosary. That's sacreligious. So I've been wary of wearing anything with crosses/religious motifs even though I don't agree with her. It's sort of how I was raised.
The other reason why I wouldn't do that here is that I live in a heavily Christian area. I really don't want any unnecessary attention from heavily religious people.
I was brought up in a Christian home. And it was mostly my mum who didn't like me doing things like reading Harry Potter or playing Pokemon.
I actually thought it was pretty normal as a kid so I didn't think much of it. But when I became a teenager I started to get into anime seriously and this started with Deathnote. And I remember I really wanted to cosplay Misa, and I had bought lots of Deathnote merch like figurines and manga (probably around $100 worth?). When my mum found it she threw it all away and forbid me to never have anything to do with anime and cosplay ever again. But being the rebellious teenager I was I wanted to do what made me happy. So I kept my love for anime and cosplay in secret. And when she found out again she beat me several times saying it was the devils work, or take me to a Christian counselor to tell me that I will go to hell.
I know that she was just trying to protect me but growing up in a Christian household was really hard, it limited me from making friends and doing things that I like without being afraid that I would be punished for it. So I am not a Christian now, I guess I probably would be if it wasn't shoved down my throat.
My parents are Roman Catholic, and I was raised Catholic, had to make my communion, confirmation, made to go to church every sunday. But my parents aren't very conservative, they let me do mostly everything that was "normal," they were just a little more strict when it came to certain standards of respect and good behavior. Didn't go to Catholic school or anything. I was made to dress a little more modest than everyone my age, but it wouldn't have been noticeable. My mom also worked in fashion and didn't let me follow kid/youth trends she thought looked ugly or trashy.
Now I am agnostic, but I'll still wear crosses if it's on a print like AP's Horror Garden. The cross as a symbol is so widely used. I wouldn't wear nunlita, just because the aesthetic does not appeal to me. I really want to coordinate a mantilla, a Spanish Cathoic lace church veil into Lolita, with a JetJ dress, a lace hand fan, and shawl. As much as I'm not Catholic, never really connected to my religion, I'm Spanish, connect very much to that.
Everyone in my family (including myself) is Lutheran, and we definitely have good food (like an anon from above said, lol). We're pretty relaxed, like my parents were cool with anime, pokemon, Harry Potter, etc.
As for lolita, I wear toned-down classic coordinates to church all the time, and I'm our church's organist/pianist so I'm at the very front of the church. The congregation is probably 95% elderly people and 5% their grandchildren and they seem to really like my outfits, especially because I made the dresses myself. The church itself is a tiny country church, so a lot of the ladies sew/quilt/craft things. It's cool.
>>8886629
>she beat me
>she was just trying to protect me
Man, what??
>>8886629
>she was just trying to protect me
>clear abuse
>>8884069
>it looks like communion dresses
comming from a roman catholic household this is actually what got me into this genre. I loved my communion dress back then and wanted to wear it more some day. But that's all how it affected me. I'm not that religious anymore but I remember my ultra catholic childhood as very happy days. I was in a stable, healthy community, we had our songs, and rituals, everything was organized and everybody was kind. But I still have problems getting into relationships, I never even held a guys' hand. I had to turn away so many guys, because I still can't deal with the possibility of being labeled as a slut or being less worthy the more relationships I had or sexual experience. Even though I'm a pretty reasonable person otherwise. Other then that, I like the modesty of lolita fashion and I like the clean, simple look of nun themed lolita. Since I like only minimalistic prints crosses/stained glass patterns don't do it for me though.
>>8886930
>>8887049
I grew up in a similar situation, religious conservative parents in a religious conservative area going to private religious conservative schools. Kids got beaten at home for bad grades or liking the wrong things or wearing the wrong clothes, and then got paddled at school for acting out or "tattling" on their parents or bullies to the teachers. As long as you didn't have a broken bone or obvious scars it was just building character and discipline. It wasn't until I was 21 and moved in with my gf to a different state that I really was able to admit that I was abused. Shit gets into your head.
>>8886629
It wasn't to protect you anon, she was wrong. It's not your fault
>>8887084
>and then got paddled at school for acting out or "tattling" on their parents or bullies to the teachers
jesus. there is no way to win in these environments.
>be me, young boy at conservative fundamentalist church
>spot a pedo
>tell my mother about the creepy redfaced panting guy who's always giggling and trying to touch us kids
>she tells me, "make sure your younger siblings aren't alone with him." and that there's nothing we can do about it because we can't involve police in church business
>genuinely believe police and government employees are agents of Satan, so hope a church authority will remove the pedo before he goes too far
had to overcome a lot of learned helplessness when i became an adult.
>>8887084
This is really awful. But I never understood this mentality and I say that as someone who started getting extremely rough spankings from my mother only AFTER she became a JW.
There were other kids in my congregation that were getting a lot worse than me before my mom went full blown beating the shit out of me. I tried to tell these kids what was going on was wrong and what was happening to them was wrong and they didn't care. They didn't want me to get them help. They didn't give a shit that their mother was literally chasing them around the house with a wooden spoon (I saw her do this once, they said it would happen often).
But they also weren't really strict JW's so maybe that's why they just thought it was normal violence.
My mom eventually completely lost her shit came outside one day, yanked me from my kiddie pool and pulled me by the wrist where she then swung me into a near by picnic table. When I fell on the ground she whipped me with a towel. Her roommate had to run outside and tell her to stop.
I think a lot of hardcore extremist type religions breed violence. There was a lot of sexual dysfunction in a lot of the kids I went to hall with too. We even had a resident pedophile old guy that my non-JW grandma was always telling me to stay away from.
>>8884076
OMG my life in a nutshell
I grew up with very conservative chinese parents, like.. my mom was very religious and my dad worshiped his ancestors, idk how to say it properly but we always had a spot near our balcony that had a table with guan shi yin/buddha and some other gods. we light incense sometimes but honestly I've seen way more religious people here than our family
but when I was about.. 15-16 I started getting into visual kei and dressed in brands like algonquins and hellcatpunks etc. chopped my waist length hair into hair like ruki's from gazette (though I kept it black and didn't dye it)
my parents freaked out and my mom accused me of worshiping the devil and tore down my hxh poster of kurapika (with his red eyes and chains out) from my room and said he was evil wtf? then my dad sat me down and asked if I was taking drugs because I started using swear words when I got angry at my video games
anyway they're totally cool with me wearing lolita now because I'm not a fakeboi anymore and I'm actually trying to be like a 'proper lady' (of course there's still ouji but yeah). casually wearing otome and mori as well, no one bats an eye if you wear it on the street here.
but other than that I'm still personally weirded out by wearing anything with crosses on it because of huge family drama.
when my grandpa on my dad's side passed away, there was a split between deciding on a traditional chinese burial or a christian one. my grandpa hated christians when he was alive but my christian aunts insisted that they baptized him while he was delirious in the hospital a few years back and that he's a child of christ now.
it split the family in half with negative emotions, everyone was angry and in grief at the same time, it was a horrible experience.
>mfw christian aunts couldn't afford to pay for the funeral so.. we did it the chinese way because the traditional chinese side of the family had enough dosh to do what my grandpa wanted
anyway that is why I don't wear crosses on my jfash stuff
>>8887660
My dad ended up choking me in the middle of the mall and nobody did anything, and I can remember my mother dragging my sister into the street naked and beating her with a belt and nobody did anything. It was just how it was. We weren't being abused, just disciplined, we did something wrong and needed to be punished.
The cops would have little demonstrations on abuse at school sometimes, and the basics of it was if your parents aren't breaking your bones every day then you can't get help. You'd get made fun of for talking about it to other kids because "lol my moms spanked me before it doesn't hurt that bad". When everything you've been taught tells you the problem is in how you act and think and who you are there's not a lot you can do to escape it. My current gf is the first person who ever told me I was abused, and severely at that.
I agree with you on the religious people, but I think it's more cultural. My mother never went to church despite her faith, though she did make sure to put me through a christian education. But physical discipline of kids was the norm there, and the extremes of it were a little too blurred. Even now I've told people and sometimes their only response is "what did you do to make them so mad?" or "how could you just run away from her? shes your mother!"
>mom raised Latin-chanting Catholic
>dad raised southern Baptist
>because of their shitty religious upbringings they don't pressure me into any religion growing up
>turn into atheist
>feel gross wearing anything with crosses on it because I'm not a Christian
It's not like I fear it's disrespectful or whatever, it's just weird? Why would you wear a cross if you aren't a Christian?
>>8885087
I'd wear the shit out of this. I'd love something with an Old Glory instead of the Union Jack. Yeah, I get that America. Pride is definitely not fashionable outside of the States, but idgaf. I'd rock out some painting prints with Revolutionary imagery.
>>8884987
>A Jew not liking crosses? Must feel guilty for killing Jesus then, eh?
Sorry.
Shitty joke. Lol
>>8889360
don't be it was funny
if you can't laugh at yourself you're probably a boring person
>>8884195
Not every country with a high Muslim population is Saudi Arabia. Contrary to western misconceptions, most countries where Islam is the dominant religion aren't this barbaric. There might be a decent amount of misogyny in regards to women's fashion or ire towards flashy things in some countries, but you really aren't going to see people getting their heads lobbed off for things like this.
>>8888058
Crosses have sort of detached themselves from religion for most people. It's like stained glass. I'm not religious despite coming from a very Catholic background, and I wear cross prints because I like the look of them. None of the non-fedora atheists I've met have had any qualms about wearing cross jewellery, either. Wearing something more religious, like a crucifix, would feel weird, but to me crosses are just the fancy, ornate things on my dresses that look good.
>>8889339
American history simply isn't as kawaii as European.
Orthodox Christian here, Family and I are quite devout in our faith. For the most part they are fine with my cosplay, so long as I don't become completely obsessive. My beliefs do influence my choice of cosplay.
>>8885683
Is there an actual translation of this or is it simply backwards? Could you just invert the file and be able to read it?
>>8892265
It's a passage from Genesis which honestly wouldn't make sense with the print even if it wasn't backwards. And yes the text is backwards, not mirrored, so inverting the picture would make it completely illegible.
>>8891957
>Crosses have sort of detached themselves from religion for most people
Don't talk out of your ass.
>>8886615
Interestly, my rejection of religious things and decision to stop going to church is also out of a warped form of respect/conviction. I was convinced that I was so heathenly than there was no way I could meet the mark, stay in line with the customs or be sanctimonious enough, so I can't swan around calling myself Christian or flaunting Christian symbols. It's a go hard or go home sort of thing. The verses warning you not to be a hypocrite or take communion unworthily or go to hell put me off majorly; I'd rather not call myself christian at all than risk making a mockery of the religion or being damned for trying! That being said today's christianity is full of hypocrites, cherry-pickers and child molesters. The hierarchy and customs of all these sects has been plucked out of thin air to suit their founders (don't get me started on the Church of England). The whole point of religion is rejecting your atheistic lifestyle and self-sacrifice in line with the teachings of God (taking up your cross etc), so I am torn/conflicted seeing vicars getting drunk and advocating Harry Potter when I get accused of being devil spawn for having been sexually assaulted or wearing a t shirt with a tiny skull motif on it. I wasn't even allowed to say 'oh my god'.
I'm just glad that I've desensitised my parents to lolita. I think wearing it insistently has made them understand it's weird but isn't actually hurting anybody. I had a bad reaction from my dad wearing The Little Mermaid as the mermaid in the print is topless and smirking. I haven't told either parent the name of my favorite dress (Vampire Requiem) and so far they haven't seen me in it long enough to notice there are coffins on it... Yet.
>>8892284
Well if they'd have left it at just the first few days of creation with the sky and stars it would make a kind of sense, but they're quoting the whole seven days of creation.
>>8892305
Actually in Japan, the center of j-fash trends, crosses have very little religious significance, YOURE talking out of your ass for not having a global perspective and applying what you see in spain, france, etc some shitty oldworld euro place to the whole world.
>>8892305
They have, though. You don't see someone wearing a t-shirt with a cross and assume they are flaunting heir religion. There's cross jewellery everywhere, even places like Claire's, which you really can't say are religious. You sound pretty upset about something you can't really deny.
>>8884028
>did you have underwear under that lol I bet you didn't
>wow how'd you get those boobs?! you dont have boobs like that!
I am so sorry you have to deal with creepy comments like that, anon. iirc, there was also another anon from South America who had to deal with men like that at her local con. They would scream at cosplayers to take their clothes off because they were modestly dressed compared to people like JNig.
Con creeps are the worst.
>>8892815
>"your views are too centric"
>as you talk about fucking Japan and proceed to ignore more populous countries like Europe
>>8893587
>*populous countries like in Europe
Saging this horseshit like a stew.
>>8893587
>"Countries"
>"Europe"
"Countries like Europe"
U wot m8
>>8883998
>hijab
Is cosplaying even halal? You can barely even take a step in Muslimistan without getting stoned
>>8893828
/pol/ pls leave
>>8888044
holy fuck what country/state are you in. do people live like this where it is accepted? what the shit
>>8895150
Not that anon, but if your community is small and religious enough, shit can get crazy real fast. People divide into groups of holier-than-thou and complacent/terrified followers, essentially, and if the batshit ones decide that choking a kid out in public is acceptable then it's not seen as abuse, just necessary discipline.
If you tried to do something differently when/where my parents were growing up, you and your family would end up being ostracized pretty fucking quick. They were from a very secluded rural area, so the crazy just kept building up. The police and teachers were all brought up in similar conditions and believed that yelling at kids and beating them raw was the best way to ensure that they grew up to become upstanding Christian citizens. If you complained, you got beaten for being ungrateful. If you tried to run away, you got beaten for being ungrateful. If you couldn't go to church because your loving family had lovingly broken your bones, you got the nearest holy person to come yell at you for being ungrateful and then made you listen to a shortened version of the service, with special emphasis on how disobedience leads to every bad thing that has ever happened to you and you are personally to blame for it all.
The worst part is how they're clearly traumatized themselves. It's like a huge community of Javerts- as long as you follow their rules they're on your side; as soon as you start to question their incredibly skewed values, you get a range of reactions from screaming rants to breaking televisions 'so the Devil can't rot your brain and you get back to the true path' to extreme emotional abuse and manipulation.
I've gone to see my grandparents a few times, because my parents are trying to make them see that this way of life is about as terrible as you can get, but they seem genuinely terrified of being wrong about anything. If they weren't so shitty I'd feel bad for them.
My mother was one of those hippy types that believed in crystals and fairies etc. Then she went crazy and eventually turned into a JW. After that things went downhill.
She threw a huge fit cos I put nailpolish on my brother when I was like 10. I mean this is what big sisters do, no huge deal. But no went crazy and told me I was "turning him into one of those". I assumed she meant gay or something similar. I once wore coloured jeans and she called my an embarrassment to the family and said I was trying to tarnish her name. So j-fashion? Yeah no way in hell I'm showing her that stuff.
>>8892340
What is wrong with living good with the Lord? A lot of the world is messed up due to sin. Jesus came down to die for our sins. Coming into the light is hard but truly asking for true repentance is beautifully. we know you can't be perfect like once you're saved, you won't sin again. That is impossible and the bible says it. Its living a good christian life for Christ by doing God's will. You will mess up but Jesus is there to catch you and bring you back up. You got to faith.
>>8899622
I know a lot of people won't like you saying that, but I really needed it today. Thanks, and may the Lord bless you. :)
>>8899622
The idea of original sin is super fucked up imo. Let's not tell people that there is something wrong with them from birth. There's good people, there's bad people, how about we all just try not to be dicks.
>>8900255
>the devil is tricking us
You literally sound like an insane person to me so I don't think we can actually have a conversation. Sorry. I'm are you're a sweet girl.
