What does /an/ think of aquaponics? I'm planning to do this soon (indoors) and It seems very interesting
aquaponics - a system of aquaculture in which the waste produced by farmed fish or other aquatic animals supplies nutrients for plants grown hydroponically, which in turn purify the water for fish
DONT DO IT OP!
I tried it indoors with a 400w lamp and 50 gallons. With a week my appt smelled like shit and was humid enough for mold to become a concern...took it all apart just after that.
Aquaponics is very much an outdoor activity.
It's a stupid, expensive way to take bad care of plants and fish.
It's a retarded meme that will probably kill the fish. Don't do it.
>>2155076
I dont think its expensive, ive looked into expenses of the supplies and it seems reasonable, I think the plants are generally healthy too, For fish though, I can see how it isnt ideal care
>>2155074
I havent heard people complain about this before, but Im sure some people dealt with it too, Ill look into it
Has anyone else had experience with this?
>>2155242
>>2155243
>>2155255
>>2155071
>betta with no access to surface air
>overcrowded, tiny tanks
>several goldfish 10 gallons
>>2155225
>I dont think its expensive
it's more expensive than having separate aquariums and flower pots.
>For fish though, I can see how it isnt ideal care
it's not "not ideal", it's straight up terrible.
>I think the plants are generally healthy too
you would not know a healthy plant if it bit you on the dick
>>2155243
This is aquarium gore. A single goldfish needs at least 15 gallons of water because they shit so much and get so big. A few kale plants will not suddenly enable 6 of them to live in a 10 gallon.
>>2155285
>he thinks bettas need surface air
>>2155498
Gills aren't good enough for bettas, they take breaths of air all the time, particularly a lot if the water becomes toxic. Learn you mongrels, just becuase they breath from water doesn't mean they don't need air
>>2155498
>The Anabantoidei are a suborder of perciform ray-finned freshwater fish distinguished by their possession of a lung-like labyrinth organ, which enables them to breathe air.
>>2155071
Just don't do it. It's just some new age fancy way furniture to brag online or to your friends while, as many pointed out, fucking up the plants and the fish.
Wanna keep fish: get a proper tank for the species you like, plant it, let it cycle, stock it
Same thing with plants. Excess Nitrites/Ammonia will kill your fish, especially if wanna keep goldfish and don't know what you're doing in terms of water maintenance/filtration while at the same time malnourishing your plants due to lack of certain minerals that fish don't produce.
I can see how aquaponics could work in a very specific vivarium environment though, but that could take lots of effort, money and expertise.
>>2155586
same as with gouramis, bettas still grasp for surface air in clean water. It's just a habit because it's effective for them.
>>2155586
bettas drown if they dont have access to surface air you mong
their gills arent made to be used 24/7
>>2155593
lol'd out loud.
you're my favorite retard.
>>2155593
>Labyrinth fish are not born with functional labyrinth organs. The development of the organ is gradual and most labyrinth fish breathe entirely with their gills and develop the labyrinth organs when they grow older.[2]
>>2155601
>The development of the organ is gradual and most labyrinth fish breathe entirely with their gills and develop the labyrinth organs when they grow older
Yes. Betta fry use their gills. Until they are 2-3 weeks old. At which point their labyrinth organs develop and they use that primarily from then on
Denying them surface air will kill them at any point after 3 weeks. Google harder though
>>2155619
>they use that primarily from then on
>Denying them surface air will kill them at any point after 3 weeks
I notice you couldn't come up with a citation for your bullshit.
which isn't surprising, since it's bullshit.
>>2155623
http://www.biofilter.com/CTSA135.htm
>If a labyrinth fish is denied access to the air it will drown because the gills alone will not provide sufficient oxygen to the fish.
http://www.aquariadise.com/what-is-the-labyrinth-organ/
>Obligate air breathers have to breathe air because their gills can’t take enough oxygen from the water. Betta and gourami fall into this category.
Can you guys discuss methods and concepts, not specific models? Those were bump images, of course the models are generic and some commercial, I want some info on the subject. not rating on the pics
anyways thanks for the feedback guys
>>2155665
>blogs
well at least you tried.
>>2155913
It's a stupid fucking concept which has no good models.
>>2155665
here's a real citation:
>Siamese fighting fish Betta splendens are a facultatively air-breathing freshwater fish....
>http://www.hollandbettashow.com/bettas4all_photos/Scientificarticles/Alton-CompBiochemPhysiolMolIntegrPhysiol2013.pdf
>Facultative means "optional" or "discretionary" (antonym obligate),
>Wikipedia
a facultative air-breathing fish is NOT an OBLIGATE air-breathing fish.
it CAN breathe air, it does NOT HAVE TO.
>>2156046
ok that's better then.
we've got one peer-reviewed article in a scientific journal by marine biologists that says Betta splendens specifically doesn't need access to air,
vs
One non-reviewed manual by marine biologists that says a different genus of Gourami do but gives no citation.
take your pick I guess.
At least I now see where the retardation is coming from.
The kits are a dumb, overpriced trend, and they aren't real aquaponics to begin with. Aquaculture typically refers to the farming of edible fish, not "I have a pet betta fish; see pic).
It's also no more effective or convenient than simply sticking a pot with some basil or mint on your windowsill, since these only work with stupidly easy herbs anyway.
If you want to do it "just because," there's no reason you can't make a perfectly acceptable home for the fish that just happens to grow plants. Even OP's pic is a 3 gallon tank. With a proper filter (ie. API Superclean 10), some silk plants and (if necessary) a heater in the tank, it would be almost half-decent for a betta, and certainly good enough for shrimp.
For those of you freaking out about the lack of surface access, there's a layer of air between the water and the grow bed when it's actually set up. That pic is just for marketing.
That said, for a little over $60 (the price of that thing) you can get a 10 gallon kit, a HOB breeder box, and some lava rock and grow plants in that. Just take care of it like a regular fish tank and it's fine.
http://www.petsmart.com/fish/aquariums/grreat-choice-aquarium-starter-kit-zid36-16825/cat-36-catid-300065
https://www.amazon.com/Finnex-External-Refugium-Breeder-Hang/dp/B00KAJEAJS
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Vigoro-0-5-cu-ft-Decorative-Stone-Red-Lava-Rock-440897/100427379
>>2155580
God this, please don't do this. And for love of God do not fucking buy a meme goldfish.
GOLDFISH DO NOT BELONG IN AQUAIRUMS, STOP BELIEVING THIS MEME.
>>2156060
Would the peers be reviewing off-hand statements that have no supporting evidence and are completely unrelated to the subject at hand? That article barely mentions "facultative air-breathing." It's not a study to determine whether Betta splendens are obligatory or facultative air breathers, which is what we should be citing, but the only mentions to such experiments I've found don't link back to the studies themselves (they did say the fish drowned even in highly oxygenated water).
For the record, I'm not the person who started this argument with you and I barely care either way. The way I see it, there's no reason to deny a betta access to the surface in any situation, even if it's "just in case," so it's a pretty dumb thing to be arguing about anyway.
>>2155071
For what it's worth, I have a tank that's just as much "aquaponics" as that thing.
Pet shrimp and ornamental Dracaena.
>>2156218
>the only mentions to such experiments I've found don't link back to the studies themselves (they did say the fish drowned even in highly oxygenated water).
well you've spent more time on it than I have.
Interesting you couldn't find a source for the claim, I couldn't either.
but I'm not saying you should deny a betta access to the surface, I'm just saying that the claim that they'll die without it is silly and demonstrably false. Their gills work just fine, and as the article I cited mentions, every time they come to the surface to breathe they risk getting eaten by birds and other animals. So the less they breathe air the more likely they are to survive.
in fact the article supports the hypothesis found in about 20 other books and studies- that air breathing in males is an honest signal, in that doing it places the male at a distinct disadvantage and only the truly fit survive the behavior. Presumably by doing it less than their competitors.
>>2156218
>Would the peers be reviewing off-hand statements that have no supporting evidence and are completely unrelated to the subject at hand?
also, yes.
if you've ever published any science you'll notice that offhand bullshit statements don't fly unless you put a smiling winky face after them.
but seriously, if bettas were obligate air-breathers and you called them facultative in the literature there's essentially no chance one of the many editors and readers of your work would let it slide.
>>2156218
>It's not a study to determine whether Betta splendens are obligatory or facultative air breathers,
Here, I spent ten seconds finding you that very study.
perhaps your google-fu is getting weak.
You'll notice they found bettas are NOT obligate air breathers at normal oxygen pressures...
>B. splendens was a non-obligatory air breather after 36 dpf, whereas T. trichopterus was an obligatory air breather after 32 dpf.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jfb.12322/full
>>2156100
>Goldfish do not belong in aquariums
Pfft, they're fine if you actually know what you're doing. My friend has 6 fancies, two of the little black bug eyed looking fish, and a loach in a 40 gallon with a harcore filter, plants, and an infrared? Filter to help kill algae spores. He's had that setup for a year and his fish are clean, healthy, and friendly.
Don't spread scare tactics, spread info.
>>2156548
Very cool. Good find.
>>2156646
Please actually read the thread before responding.
>>2156666
>they're fine if you actually know what you're doing
That's true, but
>a year
My boyfriend had a comet in a 10 gallon kit from Walmart for 10 years and that was still only two thirds to half of its proper life expectancy, so color me unimpressed with your "friend who actually knows what he's doing" and his badly overstocked 40 gallon tank.
>>2156691
The only problem with overstocking is from the waste they produce, which he's got covered. His tanks fucking spotless. The fish have plenty of room to swim around too, they aren't huge, and he isn't stupid, he's going to move them when they get too big for their tank.
I think you're too stuck on this idea of 'each fish needs it's own ten gallons!'
That only comes from the fact that it usually talkes ten gallons to properly keep up with the waste they produce.
>>2156697
>he's going to move them when they get too big for their tank
I've heard that too many times to take it seriously.
>His tanks fucking spotless
That means a lot less than you seem to think it does.
Also traditional filtration only breaks down waste to the nitrate level. Maintenance is going to get exponentially higher as the fish grow.
No one who keeps goldfish will tell you that eight goldfish in a 40 gallon tank is properly stocked long term.
Most people wouldn't even recommend keeping moores with regular fancy goldfish.
And absolutely no one is going to tell you that keeping a solitary loach is okay.
Your friend sounds like he breezed through some online care guides and cherry picked what he wanted to hear.
>>2156537
cute tank anon
>>2156064
You seem to be the only guy here to get it
Kits are commercial of course, the pics werent meant to be criticized they were just iconic of the concept thats why i used them
I do hear that you can plant more densely with hydroponcis in general and that they grow faster, but that aquaponics in general does work best with easy leafy herbs/plants rather than others plants (although ive heard of success with other harder plants)
But yeah my main motive was to experiment and to have it as a sort of observation/testing project
>>2157606
I think it's a neat concept, but trying to put it into practice becomes pretty difficult.
The biggest problem with indoor aquaponics is going to be lighting. Even salad greens prefer full sun to partial shade. Those kits come with wheatgrass and sprout seeds because those can grow in near darkness and with almost no nutrients. You'll either have to put the tank next to a window (which can cause algae in the fish tank), or find a way to suspend lights above the grow bed.
This guy was semi-successful with inverts and strawberries.
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7535
I was planning on having it next to a window where the tank is below the windowsill and the plants are ontop of the tank/windowsill an above level, that way plants get full sun but no sun reaches the tank. Thats just an option, I could also just get lighting on a different part of my room, I'm just still doing research on the overall system design, especially for the pumps
