Is it immoral to keep cats in the house?
My American flatmate seems to think it is, but I'm not too sure.
Please help.
Would you like to be locked in a house, castrated, and forced to shit in a box? Sounds like the stuff of horror movies, right? Let the cat be outside. It's cruel to keep them locked away all their lives.
it's literally animal abuse to keep a cat, an animal that naturally patrols a huge area inside a house
Yanks are fucking vile creatures Tbh
yes let the cat outside you fucking monster
>>2130790
Yeah when a cat is allowed out of the house it has a fixed route that it patrols. They have an idea of their territory.
My housemate has two house-bound cats and they're fucked up, shitting everywhere, fat as hell, etc.
>>2130786
If your cat isn't suitable to be an outdoor cat (it's a persian, or whatever), sure.
Even if it is, you can take it out with you. Show it your backyard, or whatever, and it'll eventually learn how the outside world works. But then it'll probably just want to be outside for short periods, or it won't go far at all.
What I'm saying is it depends on the cat.
Some wanna go outside, some are scared to hell by it. I tried taking one of mine outside and he kept running back to the door panicking to get in. I tried calming him but it still didn't work. Even left him outside for a while to see if he'd adjust and he ended up crying in my garage rafters.
Don't force them if it doesn't make them happy.
>>2130792
Probably because your housemate doesn't provide enough mental stimulation for them. Cats have no need of going outside, but they need plenty of stimulation. Letting them go outside is just the cheap and easy way of providing it.
No
Cats are but native to Britain or America, and are an invasive species that reap havoc on native rodent and bird populations
Cats can only get toxoplasmosis from other cats that have it or prey that has it, so if you keep your cat inside the chances of getting toxo go down a lot
Outdoor cats can get hit by cars, attacked by dogs and other animals, ingest poisons, and be attacked by other people
Also can get parasites
If you really think cats need to go outside then walk them on a leash and harness. I also have a three seasons room I let my cat into, and during the weekend and if I have time during the week I take my cat to the park on a leash
If you have more than one cat then they'll wrestle and stuff too
And cats will not be depressed or overweight if you play with them. Use a laser pointer, one of those toys on a stick, and regularly switch out their toys and furniture
I've had indoor cats all my life, and never had a problem with depression, obesity, etc. My current cat is the only one that has liked going on a harness, but he's the only one I've gotten as a kitten so that's probably why
>>2130786
No, that's how they should be, especially if you want to keep the cat. They are pretty savvy when it comes to survival, but that doesn't always stop them from becoming roadkill, or getting into something poisonous. They also become free range for people who like to hurt animal, though that's probably more of a problem in bad neighborhoods. Also, they can be quite a nuisance to neighbors, by either shitting in gardens or killing wanted wildlife (like birds at a feeder). Of course, the plus to that is they do get rid of unwanted wildlife, like mice and such.
Ultimately, it's the owners call, but the way I break it down is if you want to come home from a long day and see your cat happy, you keep it indoors. If you don't mind ever seeing it again, let it outside.
>>2130801
>Cats are but native to Britain or America
domesticated animals aren't native to anywhere except your dinner.
>>2130864
I meant "cats are not", sorry. Autocorrect
How about you ring up a vet and ask them instead of a bunch of opinionated retards hanging around on this vile cesspool of a board?
I keep my girl indoors, and give her 2 long play sessions a day....she seems like a happy, healthy cat
>>2130786
its more immoral to let the cat outside unsupervised desu
if you let him outside he's more likely to
>kill the local wildlife/be a pest
>eat something poisonous or encounter a venomous animal
>get killed by someone who doesnt like cats
>get eaten by an eagle or vulture
>contract a disease or parasite
>get run over by a car
if you want to give the cat some time outside you can do so if you leash him and teach him to walk in it and take him for walks. Don't ever just let a cat outside though, it's liekly they wont come back or they'll kill local wildlife which is shitty since they kill for funsies and not for food
If you live in a city of 13 million people like I do, and the only animals your cat can kill are rats and pidgeons, then there is nothing bad about letting your cat roam outside your house.
>>2131905
>outdoor city cat
Enjoy your furry pancake.
If you let your cat outdoors unsupervised you are a shitty and lazy pet owner. It's no more immoral to keep cats inside as it is to keep cats as pets.
>>2131907
he doesnt go to the street, it is more of a the roofs of the neighbours thing.and the rest of the cats of the block do the same thing. Once I found my cat fucking a white cat in the terrace, it made me sad because he lost his virginity before me.
>>2130788
DUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
>>2132112
Hey now! I put some effort into that.
If it wants out then let it out. Its capable of making its own decisions.
>>2130801
>things can die
Amazing
>>2132153
Yeah, but they don't understand consequences. My cat would be perfectly happy and willing to drink anti-freeze, should I give him some then?
>>2130786
Don't listen to these autists, you want to keep your cat in doors, then do so.
As long as your feeding, washing, and taking proper care, there is no issue.
male cats roam once they become adults for the sole purpose of getting into fights with other male cats
have the cat fixed right as it comes into its musculature and you'll be good. Females dont really roam and only want to be out to make themselves available to males. Get her fixed and that stops being a thing
not sure what morals have to do with anything
Well my cat can either live in my apartment, or go out and get killed by a car as soon as he steps out.
>>2132196
yes, they understand consequences. Ever seen a cat gauge itself for a jump but quit before it does? Cats even get embarrased when they fuck up
>>2132286
cats still miss jumps and die from falling off of buildings
>>2132389
>cats die from falling off buuldings
Uh no. And i dont think you understand what consequences are anyways
>>2132286
>Cats get embarrassed
Explain
>>2132398
Not even that anon but yes, they do occasionally miss and fall from great hights
>>2132419
When my cat misses a jump he gets angry and attacks the carpet just like he does when we tell him no for something he really wanted to do or when the dog makes him mad.
His reaction to a missed jump is different based on if someone was there to see. When he lands he always looks around to see if anyone saw him fail. It's cute
>>2132224
No anon you are the problem, you're torturing your cats by fixing them and denying them to do things which are INSTINCT.
>/an/ defending outdoor cats unironicly
What happened in the month I was gone? It's like reddit: the thread in here
>>2132461
it's spring.
so more people will google 'animals and nature' and find this page.
>>2132461
>Implying I don't just take whichever side is less popular at any given moment.
>>2132465
Ikr?
God forbid someone be the devil's advocate.
>>2132465
I bet you're fun at parties
>>2132453
And you're just an obvious troll
>2/10
>try next time
>>2132551
>being proud that people in a bar like you
dude. thats actually kinda sad.
>>2132577
>You will never be so lonely that most of your social interactions revolve around being a bar regular.
Meh, at least the alcohol numbs the sadness.
>>2132155
Are you really so stupid to think that cats inside and outside have the same chance of dying?
>>2130790
>>2130788
>>2130791
>>2130792
you people literally have no idea what your talking about
>Would you like to be locked in a house, castrated, and forced to shit in a box? Sounds like the stuff of horror movies, right? Let the cat be outside. It's cruel to keep them locked away all their lives
I don't even know how to reply to this. Keep your fucking mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about
>>2132622
>I don't even know how to reply...
That's because it's true.
Don't get upset because you disagree with the prescription.
oh look its the "having petz iz immoral cuz itz slavery, kill all whiteys!" thread again
My cats would go crazy if they couldn't be outside like 80% of the day.
One time one of them got injured and I had to keep it inside for a week and it literally went batshit insane. The whole family wasn't able to sleep because it kept howling like they do when they're afraid and trying to jump out of closed windows.
>>2130796
We do this with our ragdoll cat, and it seems to work out for him. Doesnt seem depressed what so ever. Indoor and backyard is his territory now.
Walk the damn cat outside, i dont give a shit as long as you dont let it have free roam of the neighborhood
It's literally only yanks that are obsessed with Indoor cats.
In Europe every cat is an outdoor car.
>>2133053
Cats are also native to Europe, you dense fuck.
They're an invasive species in the Americas.
>>2130786
It's immoral that cats are allowed outside because they're horrible for the environment, and it puts them in unnecessary danger from cars, poison, other animals, etc.
If you're worried about your cat needing to be outside because it's natural or whatever, it doesn't matter if you have enough space for a cat (like more than a 2 room apartment) and you put in the effort to actually play with and entertain your cat.
If it's already used to the outdoors, then it might have trouble adjusting to only indoors, but cats don't usually need to be outdoors. Cats aren't people, so they don't yearn for freedom like humans do (as far as we can tell). If an indoor cat is depressed it's not because they can't be outside, it's probably just from lack of entertainment. If it really does bother your flatmate or whatever, the best solution is to leash train your cat to take it on walks or to build a closed-in outdoor area for the cat to play in.
>>2133095
>which is one of the reason europe lost 60% of it's biodiversity.
seems unlikely since the US has millions of outdoor cats and has lost 0% of its biodiversity from them.
>>2132398
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR6WdRIPV44
>>2133865
Might have survived had it not hit that table edge.
Really ad hoc activity from the personnel involved.
Outdoor cats have significantly shorter lifespans than indoor cats. Do you want your cat to be free with all the dangers that entails or do you want them to live comfortably for longer in a controlled environment?
Personally I think it's more inhumane to let your cat out and have it be killed by traffic or some predator, but I wont get in someone's face if they decide to have their cat be an outdoor cat.
>>2130786
>Keeping an American in your house.
That's pretty inhumane OP, you at least let them out for burgers right?
>>2133834
America also isn't overly fucking crammed with plethora upon plethora of fucking bipedal lunatics
>>2130786
If you can take care of it indoors (keeping up with the litter box, having scratching post-like things to keep it from destroying your furniture etc) then keeping the cat indoors is probably smarter and safer. Being outdoors, the cat could run away, get hit by a car, disturb the natural ecosystem with their excessive hunting, get bit/attacked by snakes or dogs and other big animals. I guess it also depends on the cat and where you live too.
>>2132593
>>>2132155
>Are you really so stupid to think that cats inside and outside have the same chance of dying?
Don't you think cats enjoy being outside doing cat things like exploring, climbing trees, killing rats and birds? Even if that could kill them.
I have 2 cats (6 & 5 y/o) and they have totally liberty to go outside. Most of the time they're at the house but it's not rare to find them in the front yard.
I think that not letting the cats being themselfs it's like when parents are overprotecters with their childs.
Let's them live
I live on the 19th floor and I have 2 cats which I don't let outside. I had another cat before that that used to sit on the window edges and eventually fell (or was pushed by my neighbours) and died.
I gotta say my cat is happier now that i let her outside, she is more active and lost weight.
I had 2 outdoor cats and they are both dead. Outdoor cats while they do enjoy the pleasures of nature and life all cats love. You have something like 50% increased mortality rate from being outside.
>>2136781
Why?
Also quality of life > long shit life
>>2136788
if you have a outdoor just expect your cat to die from outside stuff and not natural causes.I guess either way they live short blissful lives might as well let it be outdoors.
>>2136791
My cats are "outdoors" but barely leave the yard and always sleep inside at night. I think its probably healthier for them.
I imagine yours were killed by a car or something?
>>2136781
>You have something like 50% increased mortality rate from being outside.
it's 92% or more.
>>2136781
Every cat that is kept indoors will die.
>>2136733
>its ok to let cat kill local wildlife because im a piece of shit that only carea about my retarded cat
The fuck happened /an/ used to have some sembelance of logic
>>2136808
Are you implying that some of the cats allowed outdoors will live forever?
>>2137008
eternicat, the first cat, the last cat
lives outside, travels worldwide, will never die
>>2130801
This. Cat need stimulus to be happy, that's all. If you play often with them they will be happy. If you are not in a wild area far away from road and people don't even consider outdoor cat. Too risky for them. Or use a harness? Dont remember the word, a leash for all body. And if you do do it when they are young, train them about it. The more a cat is old the less he will accept new things.
my family has had 3-4 cats my whole life and they were always outside cats. when we moved to a new neighborhood 3 of my cats got killed by dogs.
it was too sad. I got another one and have keep them inside from now one, but i plan on building a large outdoor enclosure for them so they can get some sun and kill things, because it does seem immoral to me.
>>2131303
Are you sure you speaking of your cat?
"Outside pets" is a stupid concept. I really don't understand why people do it, just don't get the animal.
>>2136733
It's irresponsible. They're are a bunch of feral cats in my neighborhood, and everyone has dogs so the risk of my cat being attacked by another animal is very high
My cat is 12 years old and extremely healthy and happy, and very energetic and kitten like
One of my teachers came over to my house once and she was surprised at how old my cat was and how healthy he looked. Her sister always lets her cats outside and she was used to cats only living a few years and being dirty and having parasites. She had a hard time believing me when I told her how old he is
Cats are invasive species and outside cats are pests. I'm not going to make my cat a pest and risk his health by letting him outside
>>2130786
Cats are predators, just like lions or chetahs. The level of their domestication is low. Cats enjoy when they are alone, hidden or just chilling. They are independent and pretty much self-reliant (yeah you have to feed them and every now and them pet them, but that's basically enought for them to survive). Don't buy cat if you live in urban area, that's selfish. So to simplify this: Not letting your cat out IS AROGANT!!!
My cat loves going outside, but I'm afraid to leave it alone because my stepmother had him declawed. What do?
>>2130786
It is immoral not to keep your cats inside. It is inconsiderate of your neighbors to let your cat roam around the neighborhood unchecked, making messes, killing birds, shitting everywhere. Keep your cat inside and train the damn thing.
>>2133050
This.
Neighborhood cats keep killing the wildlife in my yard, shitting in my garden, and ripping the porch and window screens. Getting sick of their bullshit. I wish all cats were supervised or contained within their own yards outside, that's all, same treatment as any other pet. The cats in my neighborhood are becoming a bigger nuisance every year.
Whether you are an indoor or outdoor cat person, we can at least all agree that people who let their unfixed cat outside are scum of the earth
>>2137390
Letting your cat out decimates the local songbird population. It's like a tiny Silent Spring.
Also, you'll probably get all weepy when it gets eaten by a coyote, so just keep it indoors.
>>2132622
Not an argument.
>>2137547
Your cat is gonna get eaten by a coyote or get mauled by another cat lol
>people who live in the city, but buy cats and force them to live inside instead of getting a small dog because "xDDDD, kitteh so qt!!!1!!"
Pls. If you live somewhere were you physically have to force your cat to stay indoors, just get a small dog and regularly walk it.
>>2135573
Kek.
I have brought my cat outside of my apartment and as soon as I bring him out in the hall he cries like a babby and runs back to the door, and when I finally manage to get him outside he just goes back to the door wanting to get back inside
Absolutely. By keeping them in the house you are oppressing them. Freedom is a right that all cats should have, NOT A PRIVILEGE .
>>2130788
I don't know if I'd want to be castrated, but other than that it sounds pretty good.
>>2137817
Tell me about your mother.
your flatmate is fuckin retarded.
Honestly Indoor Cat+couple of nice supervised visits to the backyard a day is a pretty good setup. Stick a fucking kitty condo out there or something too.
I only let my cat outside under supervision.
I don't let him roam at large.
>>2137636
Cats don't decimate birds. If anything birds are the harder prey for them.
I live in France.
There are plenty of feral cats in my area.
There also are ravens (some play with the cats ), blackbirds (too high for cats to get to them), magpies (some annoy the fuck out of the cats) ,some jays, squirrels, some loner dogs, moles, rats, nightingales (never once have I seen a cat even try to hunt one.).
There are also plenty of cars.
I lived in my current area for more than 10 years. I have only heard of a cat being killed by a car once, and he was deaf.
I'm not going to lock my cat inside because he won't disturb the environment, since there are already plenty feral cats and outside cats. That would be certanly a different story if there were none but him.
I'm not going to lock my cat inside for fear of him dying since my 3 last cats didn't die from it.
My cat is very healthy, playful and affectionate, and yet he occasionally drops me a dead tit,rat or lizard.
I think everyone's situation is different. There's no general rule concerning indoor vs outdoor cat. Consider the environment, and the cat's personality.
>>2138873
>Cats don't decimate birds
there's 33 species extinct due to cats, most of them are birds.
the songbird population has been declining for years.
>I live in France.
france has a huge feral cat issue, it seems like everyone but the french themselves realize how much damage it's causing.
>I have only heard of a cat being killed by a car once, and he was deaf.
the average lifespan of outdoor cats is 1, for every adult cat you see 9 died.
your biased anecdotes don't change statistics.
>>2138876
it's probably caused damage in the past, but it doesn't anymore.
>>2138877
>but it doesn't anymore
It doesnt anymore because the damge has been done? No shit cats cant keep fucking up animals that dont exist anymore
>>2138884
...yes ? that's exactly what I'm saying.
There's no reason to keep cats inside to save species that are already extinct.
>>2138877
>but it doesn't anymore.
the songbird population is still declining.
marine mammal populations are declining due to cats as well.
>>2138891
Do you have any links pertaining to this ?
>marine mammals
I don't leave near the sea, but if songbirds are indeed still endangered by cats I am concerned.
>>2138891
>the songbird population is still declining.
not due to cats.
>>2138928
you can find plenty of links with the most basic google search on the subject, I don't need to spoon-feed you information that's readily accessible.
>I don't leave near the sea
that doesn't matter.
>>2138952
due to various reasons, including cats.
cats kill billions of birds every year, only a retard would deny their impact.
we let the cat in and out anytime she likes.
but she prefers to just chill inside the house
pic related cat just came in my house 3years ago, i fed it then already stayed.
It depends, it will never be the same for them as living outside, but the could still be healthy if you play a lot with them and watch their diet (specially the following weeks after castration, if you're planning it). These guys are made for leaping and running, so make sure you won't let them become lazy fucks.
For the "moral"part, if they grew up/spent a major mart of their lives outside, that's not cool to lock'em in. However if they were born and grew up inside a house, I guess it wouldn't be that big of a deal, as long as you keep them entertained as nature does (play with them, chase them for fun, let them climb up things...)
I don't understand all these fags getting all itchy over cats being kept inside. Our cat has been living her whole life inside, she's very healthy and doesn't suffer from any old-age obesity so far. When we tried taking her outside she was uncomfortable and tried to hide all the time.
If she liked being outside we would've taken her out more often of course. But our cat was happy enough with a balcony. We even had her toilet on the balcony with a cat door in the wall.
>>2139292
this
My father kept telling me to let the cat outside because
>that's what we did in my communist country a million years ago
>also we let them drink milk
Bought a harness and took her into the yard
soon as she heard a car from a block away she sprinted back inside (left the door open because i knew this would happen)
Cats are much happier and healthier inside if you're a good owner. Letting them outside is an irresponsible and uneducated decision.
>>2132622
>you have no idea what you're talking about
And yet I don't know what you're talking about since you're not saying anything.
>>2139462
>this is what frenchie actually believes
enjoy your infected or dead cat with a much lower life span while mine happily lives inside and has plenty of stimulation through daily play
>>2139465
Let me just take this animal out of it's natural habitat, traumatize it, and then claim it's "happy" while it spends 90% of it's time staring out of windows.
>>2138887
But more species would go extinct.
Wow, just wow. Anyway, where is OP? Did this thread actually helped you reach a decision?
First of all, I must say I see a great divergence of opinion based of where you are from. American people seems to recommand more the indoors way, while European are more inclined to outdoors way. This is just a majority, please don't say "I'M EUROPEAN AND I THINK CATS SHOULD BE INDOORS, CHECKMATE BRUH".
I think it's partially because American cats are put in way more danger than the European ones. Who here, for the European, lost their cat to a predator? Who had his cat stolen by a laboratory? Also American Anons seems to be more concerned by the biodiveristy value and the impact that could have their cats on it.
Now, my personnal opinion. If your cat never knew the outside, and if your neighborhood has big risks like a busy road close or a forest with dangerous predators, keep it inside. A cat living near a busy road will almost always ends its life has a furry pancake, to take the expression of a fellow Anon. It's better to have an indoor cat, maybe a little depressed ,than a dead pancake, I think.
If you live in a small paradise with no big risks in sight, and your cat loves to go outside, then I'd say to let him go. Yes I'm a believer that outdoors cats are more happy than indoors cats in general. I saw it myself a lot of time at my parents house. BUT. They DO live in a little paradise. They had a lot of cats, the oldest one is 15 years old now, great shape, loves to go out. They all love to go out. When you see a cat being that happy, playing, hunting, snoozing in the sun, it makes you sure that the outdoors (iiif safe, please note my words) is really, really important to them.
But I don't think I could convince anybody. You have to see it for yourself. Oh and I don't think all indoors cats are depressed, I do think that with enough toys and interaction they can live quite happy. Just not AS happy as the outdoors one. (If they live in a safe place.)
>>2139483
There is no "natural habitat" for cats in america or UK
>>2139520
Not domestic ones, obviously, but most "breeds" alive today descend from the european wildcat.
Still trash vermin, though.
>>2139502
OP obviously made this thread knowing what would ensue.
Not sure why people think their cats would be depressed inside. do you not play with it inside? do you let your dog roam free without proper supervision?
>>2139523
it doesn't matter whether they're natural or not.
there's too many of them by any standards and they're doing damage because of it.
>>2139502
>Who here, for the European, lost their cat to a predator?
I see cats laying on the road and in the forest almost daily.
>If you live in a small paradise with no big risks in sight
doesn't exist, there's only 3 options.
a) predators that kill your cat.
b) human activity (i.e roads) that kill your cat.
c) no predators, no humans, so you're introducing predators to an area that lacks them, actively upsetting the local ecosystem.
there is no safe option for your cat to go outside and not harm the environment.
letting your cat out because you live far away from people and human acitivty where nature is doing fine is stupid, you're destroying what little nature is left with your ego-centric choices and you should apply yourself.
>>2139925
What fucking eco system is a cat in the midwest going to have any effect? A couple sparrows and a mouse every other week? Most farmers need cats to help them out. They aren't really the kind of cats you would call "pets" though.
It's never good to let your PET cat outside in anyway. Parasites, ticks, worms, lice, diseases from other cats, fighting, humans shooting them, ect.
>>2139958
>What fucking eco system is a cat in the midwest going to have any effect?
what kind of 'fucking eco system' is it NOT going to affect?
>Most farmers need cats to help them out.
no they don't, cats are useless as pest control.
they cause more damage themselves than the rats they kill do.
if you want pest control get a bunch of terriers, they're even selective about what they kill so they don't actually harm the ecosystem.
cats are shit tier animals for shit tier farmers that don't have any idea what they're doing.
>>2137547
Don't let a declawed cat outside it'll fucking kill itself trying to climb something or get fucking wrecked by another cat.
Also don't declaw cats.
>>2130786
Cats are naturally curious and will almost always want to know what's on the other side of a closed door. Born housecats will often pussy out and run back insideanytime you open the front door even if they stand by it all day. Trust me when I say they're fine getting free food and sleeping all day for the rest of their lives.
