Are Caterpillars and Butterflies the same living creature?
I was watching a David Atattenborough documentary on flying creatures and he mentioned something about butterflies that got me thinking.
Are they the same living creature? You hear about the story of the caterpillar turning into a beautiful butterfly but I always imaged the metamorphosis would be like a pokemon evolving or a digimon digivolving.
But reading up on it seems the caterpillar dies and another living creature the butterfly is born from it's corpse like a phoenix.
I am not sure what to think it seems to be both , what does /an/ think?
Are they both the same living creature do they share the same brain or if they had souls the same soul?
>>2126833
fuck off
I really not baiting just curious what /an/ thinks? But fair enough ill fuck off since I know how this will go down.
>>2126833
W/E I'll take the bait. The catterpillar's body basically liquifies itself, leaving only the CNS (as far as it can be called one), around which the new organs form. Same creature different body.
By that definition then tadpoles and frogs aren't the same thing.
>>2126854
by that definition toddlers and human's aren't the same thing.
OP has an incredibly amount to learn about biology. He has a 3rd graders understanding of life.
OP is dumber than a 12 year old.
>>2126858
>OP is dumber than a 12 year old.
And so are you. This is just Ship of Theseus under a different hat.
The answer depends on not what happens to the animal, but what you consider to be the "same animal". Is it biologically the same animal? It still has the same genes, mutations/epigenetic changes notwithstanding, so I'd say yes. Is is ontologically the same animal? Who the fuck knows, as far as I'm concerned ontology only exists for philosophers to write huge ass books about it.
>>2126872
>Ship of Theseus
Holy shit you're a fucking retard. Straight up.
>Is it biologically the same animal?
By definition.
Do you get confused that dogs are all the same species even though they are different shapes?
Do you also get confused at the concept of simple cell growth & regenerative cells? While not every cell in your body is replaced(myth) plenty of them die & do get replaced. You are constantly changing your body as your life goes on. Not all the cells you start with as a child are the same as when you die. This isn't even taking into account the atoms in your body which DO get fully replaced as your life goes on. The matter you consisted of before as a child is now completely different(assuming you aren't a child. Which is probably a wrong assumption). You are still the same person.
Caterpillars are born with several imaginal disks that remain intact within the cocoon as most of it turns to goo. These bits are what form several different parts of the butterfly & if you remove them from the caterpillar, like say one of the disks that becomes a wing, that butterfly will have one less wing.
Those aren't the only things that remain within the chrysalis(tough word to remember how to spell). Several parts of the CNS remain and these neurons are capable of storing memories of when the insect was a caterpillar. A caterpillar does not COMPLETELY turn to goo in it's morphology.
This isn't some retarded paradox you faggots like to bring up in every discussion to make yourselves sound educated. It's a simple fucking concept of biology that even a child should know.
metamorphosis
(in an insect or amphibian) the process of transformation from an immature form to an adult form in two or more distinct stages.
Humans do not undergo metamorphosis but do go through several stages on their way to becoming adults. You are the same creature you were since conception and a caterpillar is the same creature as a butterfly. There's no soul dumbfucks like OP believe.
>>2126921
>There's no soul dumbfucks like OP believe.
For clarity I don't believe in souls, not even in humans but I was saying for the sake of understanding my argument that it had a soul.
To add, while not an exact 1 to 1 comparison, your body is like a computer.
Your brain consists of the cpu, HDD, and RAM. Your personality and instinct are the software stored in that HDD.
Your nervous system is the motherboard and the link between your body and brain. Your eyes are the GPU(yes, I know eyes are part of the CNS). Your heart, lungs, and other critical organs that run your body is the PSU. Your skin is the case. All of these parts exist only to serve the brain. You can swap them out freely without any changes of your computer
Just like how you can swap out any of those parts of your body without changing who you are. You still run windows at the exact speed, you still have all your memories, your photos, and software. You can change the shape of these parts and you are still the same exact creature.
The caterpillar's "brain" retains software and memory as it transitions to a butterfly. A butterfly has a slightly larger brain than it did before but children have smaller brains than they do as adults.
But if you want to get all fucking philosophical about "the ego" there's just a bunch of bullshit no one can explain. Shit like the whole brain in the jar. "I think, therefore, I am" no longer applies to modern understanding of technology and philosophy. "You" could very well just be a device meant to playback a recording.
>>2126921
>get told that you can have different opinions about ontological continuity even if you agree about what happens during metamorphosis
>sperg out like a fucking retard
You don't get a non-greentext reply because you don't deserve it.
>>2126967
>ontological
Yeah, no.
literally kill yourself.
>>2126965
y so mad tho
>>2126967
All male fetuses were female in shape at some point. It's same you though.
In defense of OP, consider the gametophyte and sporophyte phases of plant life.
What are the similarities? What are the differences?
>>2126833
Wow, you all seem pretty triggered. So what if he's ignorant, that's why he was asking the question. Freaking bitter pissy zoophhile
>>2127439
Didn't mean to send that to OP.
>>2126833
Thanks OP this thread really gave me some intriguing information about people who browse /an/, small sample size tho
>>2127957
Nigger not every fucking person is a butterfly expert.Most people know about as much that the caterpillar forms a cocoon, comes out later as a butterfly. Not everyone knows the details of what happens.
>>2127439
This exact same thread is made every few months with the exact same retarded claims.
>>2126872
This isn't the Ship of Theseus at all you stupid faggot. Ship of Theseus involves the removal of parts and replacement of them with new parts. The caterpillar's parts remain the same, just are molded into different shapes.
>>2126965
This is a highly debatable view and is falling out of favor as a metaphor, as the human brain functions differently than a computer.
Also you seem mad as hell and should really read some philosophy. Try Heroclitus.
>>2126833
They are not the same creature. Sameness is a loaded term and you should avoid it when talking about people. Yes people. We are all people. Even spiders even though I can't stand them. It's like the transition from male to female among humans. You are another person afterwards with new name and body. You can be happy then ^_^
