Why do people refuse to treat animals equally?
Most people will agree that killing for no reason is wrong. Yet the same people will eat a steak for dinner. Knowing that meat isn't necessary and knowing that animals do suffer, it is our obligation not to kill them.
Simone Weil wrote (this is my own translation from French) : "He [a human being] needs to receive almost the entirety of his moral, intellectual and spiritual life through environments to which he naturally belongs". This "need of roots" seems to be exactly what's hindering us. We take on the traditions of our elders without any questioning, without considering recent discoveries. We would rather close our eyes on the state of the world if that means we can continue living our own life peacefully.
We need to update our moral values. The world as we know it is coming to an end whether we want it or not. For the sake of our planet, we need to look at what's happening and look closely.
>>2107734
> spiritual life
into the trash it goes.
we don't treat animals equal because they're not equal.
>>2107734
>killing for no reason is wrong. Yet the same people will eat a steak for dinner
>no reason
>hunger, flavor, dominion over a lesser animal
well your argument is shit, first of all, and--
>meat isn't necessary
--you're just plain stupid.
>>2107739
>hunger
I am talking about industrialized meat production. The people that benefit from it are not hungry, and won't die of hunger if it cesses to exist.
>flavor
Personal pleasure doesn't justify killing. A raper takes pleasure in raping, can he continue? Dismissed.
>dominion over a lesser animal
Your ego problems are yours and yours alone.
>>2107734
>Why do people refuse to treat animals equally?
You wana animals start paying taxes?
>>2107742
While giving ferrets driver's licences would be interesting, that's not what I'm saying. The argument is about equal consideration.
It's the same when you say that men and women should be equal. Unless you are retarded, you will not fight for men's right to abort.
The global economy relies on animals. We can't sustain our current population without them. You can be idealistic but that's not gonna get you anywhere
>>2107734
get the fuck outta here
>>2107759
Who will care about the global economy when the world will be facing the consequences of climate change? Even if we forget animal liberation for a minute, climate change forces us to go against the global economy. Climate change is already altering the realities of some people and it will only get worse. Going against the dominant "profit above all" ideology is necessary. The changes it implies are drastic but if we try and ignore what's happening the changes will be huge as well.
So you are right, the global economy will not survive and that's all right.
>>2107766
This is a board called Animals & Nature. This is a discussion about animals and their rights. If you're uncomfortable, please go post cat pics while telling yourself that you love animals.
>>2107770
I love animals.
Especially mutton, beef and pork.
>>2107767
>implying livestock is the only form of agriculture that harms the environment
>>2107746
Are you comparing women to animals?
>>2107792
Women are animals too.
>>2107776
Try not to cut yourself on that edge.
I'm 100% against animal cruelty, but don't really see a moral issue with killing them painlessly, with regards to the effects it will have on the well being of ecosystems or their little animal social groups.
>>2107734
>Why do people refuse to treat animals equally?
We don't treat them as equal beings because they are not equal beings.
>>2107746
if men arent going to have a say in these sort of things then they should be able to opt out and not have to take responsibility for someone else's choice. let the bastards be bastards if the woman wants to carry it to term but the intentional or accidental sperm donor doesnt. gynocentrism hurray
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
--Genesis 1:26
You seem like the type of person who forces vegetarianism on their cat then wonders why it dies.
>>2107734
>For the sake of our planet, we need to look at what's happening and look closely.
>vegans will save the world
Amazing.
>>2107741
Should people also take into consideration the feelings of ants, dust mites and the bacteria living on my balls? Why do dolphins murder porpoises? Why do they rape humans?
>>2107734
>Knowing that meat isn't necessary
[citation needed]
It's not going to matter the human race has already started it's decline just wait till we die out.
Human intellect is a curse and has not changed.
>>2107734
What makes us higher in status than animals are our such amazing comprehension abilities. We can judge actions before, during, and after a situation to determine a certain outcome. We can communicate to each other and even ask questions(a note worthy example for animal behavioral scientists when conversing with great apes is that they'll answer a question, but as of yet, has never asked a question back), we can even communicate in other languages and listen to one person in his language and you can respond in a totally separate language and both can understand.
We can make ideas, transform our planet, invent machines that has brought us onto other heavenly bodies. The reason why we don't, won't and never will treat animals equally is because they are not as advanced as we are. They will not be able to act as a civilized being because they aren't one, simple as that.
>>2107734
Some good points have already been made in this thread as to why animals aren't treated equally, but I'd like to toss my hat in the ring as well by saying they're just too damn tasty. Regardless of how "morally wrong" it might be to consume them I'm perfectly okay with that because I like it. You can cry all you want, but that's really the only justification that I think I need and so far no amount of moral arguments have had any effect me.
>>2108226
>roasting whole pig
Why the fuck do people do this? That looks disgusting as hell. But then again I'm not big on pork anyway, aside from bacon and sausage. That just doesn't look the least bit appetizing.
>>2108230
You should try it senpai, pig jowls are pretty tender and tasty.
>>2108233
I'll stick to beef. I just don't like the taste of pig parts, in general.
>>2107734
>Most people will agree that killing for no reason is wrong. Yet the same people will eat a steak for dinner. Knowing that meat isn't necessary and knowing that animals do suffer, it is our obligation not to kill them.
2107734
You're saying someone who eats a steak is being hypocritical because it isnt absolutely necessary to kill the animal. Although I would have the reason in that it tastes good. I could make the statement that you should only be eating soybeans, corn, and vitimin and mineral supplements because that is what is necessary for you to survive. But that's an irrational way of thinking, so is saying because meat isnt absolutely necessary, you shouldnt eat it. There are some reasons to be vegetarian or vegan, but this isnt one of them.
Plants may actually feel pain, they release signaling hormones into the ground when they are comprised to alert other plants around them. Plant liberation when?
>>2108252
>tfw the year 2154, all food must be non-oil based synthetic material.
>>2107734
Convincing everyone to stop killing animals and to go veggie is very unrealistic. In my opinion, it's better to support small scale farms that give animals good lives rather than to attempt to stop people from eating meat all together. A minute of suffering at the end of a good life is way less bad than what a feedlot animal endures.
Trying to convince people that killing animals for food is bad just leads to stubborn arguments about human superiority. People like meat, and will make up any argument to back up their feelings.
I don't think the world will ever be convinced to go vegetarian, but hopefully one day tasty meat can be grown in a lab without a nervous system attached. In the mean time, it's better to support meat grown without suffering.
>>2107734
>Knowing that meat isn't necessary and knowing that animals do suffer, it is our obligation not to kill them.
Stopped reading right there.
Also, the same way there are ways to TRY to make war more humane there are ways that make the act of killing an animal FOR NOURISHMENT as painless as possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4jZ_BV4MQ4
>>2107734
Hmm...
>Pasty aids skrillex veganism
>Get killed because I refuse to run through a field of beans
> cancer/heart disease from excess meat consumption
>Balanced diet
PICK ONE.
>>2107893
>if men arent going to have a say in these sort of things then they should be able to opt out and not have to take responsibility for someone else's choice.
Are you talking about child support or something? Because men can opt out. Letting go of all his rights to the child, is opting out. You don't have to pay child support if you do so, or at least that's what I've been told by a friend who's going through this process.
Animals are animals, they should be treated fairly yes but not necessarily as equals. A child with special needs needs different care to an adult without special needs. That's not to say they shouldn't be treated fairly and with respect but equal is stupid.
>>2109928
Your friend is full of shit
OP try talking to any carnivore and see what they have to say. They're not being mean. It's eat to kill, eat to live. Also, who ever implied meat isn't necessary?
>>2110261
>who ever implied meat isn't necessary?
The american dietetic association?
>>2109952
this
Animals don't need to be treated equally. It's like the people who are like "hurr durr zoos are bad because how would you like it if you were kept locked up your whole life." This doesn't apply to every single animal cause many species can live fulfilling lives in zoo enclosures. The same is true for domestic animals who can have great lives on farms (obviously this isn't true for industrial farm factories).
Also for the same reason, killing animals isn't as bad as killing humans. It isn't an equal comparison. I'm not sure how intelligent animals like chickens are, but I'm pretty sure if they live a nice life on an open range farm they aren't spending the whole time dreading their inevitable death. Most animals are killed as humanely as possible anyway, so the animals have little to no suffering. Hopefully one day humans won't need to kill other animals for food, but desu it's not that bad.
>>2109928
You don't HAVE to, but social services will force you to sooner or later. Even if you don't have enough money they'll wait until you do
>>2107734
>>2110375
>Most animals are killed as humanely as possible anyway, so the animals have little to no suffering.
I'm not a rabid rights activist, but how ignorant can you be? Animals used in factory farms total more than all other animals used in human endeavors combined, and those places are literally hell. It's fine to eat meat, but don't delude yourself that the animal had a good life and died peacefully.
>>2108226
My grandma gave me a shirt like this for Christmas a few years back, but with a picture of a cow instead of a steak. It's my favorite shirt.
>>2107734
Why won't animals stop murdering other animals?
#animallivesmatter
>>2107734
well i could eat a salad but then I would be killing a plant. if killing is wrong then it's wrong to kill animals and plants and insects too. So if I'm going to kill might as well kill the tastiest thing I can.
>>2107741
>Implying there aren't cheap meat products that can feed poor people
>Implying meat isn't the main reason humans evolved from great apes
>Thus implying that meat in your diet isn't necessary
All kinds of dumb
>>2107736
>Don't treat animals as equals cause their not
And what are you genius? A mineral? A vegetal? Some human could be treated as inferior to others as well, if you don't treat some human as inferior you're just an hypocrit who never remised your view in question.
>>2110598
Also on this note, since we're omnivorous, and meat is vital for our diet and health, we manage to farm it
Why? Because we're superior beings. Inferior animals like lions work for their meal but we make sure it's readily available because we are inherently higher on the food chain
we are animals, and thus part of nature. We are the apex predators of the world, and whatever prey we take needs to evolve to adapt. That's nature.
Obviously senseless killing is retarded, but that's already looked down upon even by normies, see that lion that got poached.
But you want us to stop killing for food? Fuck off.
And protip, you can love animals and eat a shitton of meat, just like how your dog can kill squirrels and rats and still love you.
>>2107734
Quoting Simone Weil
B A S E D
A
S
E
D
Also as usual its sad than the argument of many here are just blinded point of view.
>Meat is necessary to feed humanity.
No. Proteins are, and tofu is easier and cheaper to produce and dont hurt any life. Cost less in water, space and gaz.
Think about eat anons, we kills animal for confort not survival. That's the entire problem. A Inuit who kill a bunch of creature in his life is okay, they dont have choice. An european who participe to the killing and suffering for is own confort is not. I hope we can have a good debate and not just shitposting anon.
>>2110602
>apex predators
Nah man were just 3rd tier without our technologym if like to see you wrestle with a grizzly bear
>inb4 primates are vegetarians so we should be too
>>2110605
We built our technology, thus it's part of us. Just as a chimp wielding a rock is still a chimp using it's naturally given abilities. We CREATED our weapons, but they're still ours.
If chickens can fucking build a counter to rifles or even padlocks, then by all means, but they can't so they're lower than us. Same goes for bears.
>>2110605
>were just 3rd tier without our technology
but we aren't without our technology, so your criticism describes your fantasy, not reality.
>>2110601
Guess what, this is how our society works.
You commit a crime - you are not equal, you don't deserve freedom.
You are handicapped - you are not equal, you requires additional support.
BOOM!
>>2110609
And we can loose it in a few generations. Does our technology and societies put us at the top of the food chain? Yeah
But that's just the only reason. Humans are mid tier apes that outsmarted and genocided our natural predators like cave lions and smilodons.
But make no mistake just one major fuck up will send us all back to our natural position in nature. Hell even today many people are still preyed upon by big cats, crocodiles, giant snakes and many others who see humans as a potential meal. Our position as apex predators today can very easily be completely demolished at any point in time.
>>2110610
The reality is that you don't know how to make any of our technology from scratch and need to buy most of it
>what is vitamin B12?
>>2110621
Tasty
>>2110621
i love this chart
could stare at it for hours
>>2110583
Sorry if it was unclear, I definitely did not mean those places. Everything I said I meant in relation to nice farms where animals can have nice lives. Obviously factory farms are hell for animals.
>>2107736
Equality is an abstract concept. Once you've left the world of mathematics, which two things are equal is more of a subjective call than anything else.
Let's say I have two cars of the same make/model/year, same options, practically copies of each other. Colloquially, we'd agree they're "equal". But they can't truly be equal because they're comprised of different atoms, there's probably slightly variances in their construction, one has to be a bit older than the other, etc. These discrepancies get even weirder. Let's say I take a shit in the driver's seat of one car but have it professionally cleaned such that an outsider would never know. But you know. Would you consider them equal cars? If given a choice you might prefer the one that's never been shat in, even though it's really not a rational feel. Equality when dealing with objects and concepts is subjective as fuck.
Sorry I guess I took that too far. Are other animals equal to humans? Well, no. But the notion of equality tends to be based upon the idea that we and other species have the same drives, to live, to thrive, to procreate, to feel contentment, etc. That animal isn't us. But it could be us, more so than a rock or a flower.
I feel that eating meat is unethical but I do it anyway and try not to think of the fact that a hopefully unwitting but potentially anxious mare had a steel rod punched through its brain to feed my fat face and sustain a lifestyle I'm accustomed to.
If aliums were farming us for meat, I would want to know, even though I would feel better by living in ignorance. I imagine most animals would seek to preserve their life, and if given knowledge that they were going to be gutted, they'd be pretty upset.
Hopefully one day we'll be able to grow brainless meat bags in labs without having to murder anything that may or may not have some form of consciousness.
>>2110741
>Hopefully one day we'll be able to grow brainless meat bags in labs without having to murder anything that may or may not have some form of consciousness
Ironically enough we already do.
nobody seriously considers meat animals to be conscious, they show none of the signs. There is a current fad in animal "science" of pretending they are, but that's not going to last because it's not true.
Not that it matters. Anyone that thinks suffering isn't a normal part of life is a spoiled child. And anyone that thinks suffering or pleasure matters once you're dead is a stupid child.
>>2107734
Give me affordable vat-grown steak and I won't eat another filthy animal while I live.
>>2110616
>implying that humans aren't already at our natural position in nature
You can whine all you want, but by definition we are at our natural place in nature.
>>2110618
Everyone building their own tech is the least efficient way to do it, that's why other primates are still naked animals squatting in the wilderness, they don't realize that specializing in specific tasks gets more shit done than "everyone for themselves".
>>2110844
>Just as long as it tastes good
You forgot that part.
>>2110848
>but by definition we are at our natural place in nature.
by definition everything we do is artificial, not natural.
>>2110939
As living beings on this planet, nothing we do is artificial. Everything humans do is natural for humans to do. Even as we live in a world of plastic and metal, worrying more about whether someone likes us than where we'll get our next meal, the same could be said of any species that manages to construct an impenetrably safe utopia for themselves. We made this "artificial" life for ourselves out of the primal animal desire to survive, and to ensure survival. We are the most advanced animals on the planet, possibly in the solar system, maybe even in the Universe if we're really unlucky. Just because we aren't digging in the mud for worms to eat like other animals doesn't mean we aren't living our natural lives.
Look OP, I appreciate that you care about the environment and animals, that's awesome and you should be proud that you have that drive. HOWEVER, you are trying to sway people over to your views in a forceful, arguably mean, manner. Instead of trying to educate and inform, you are saying we MUST and we HAVE TO. People don't like being told what to do, and we will almost always rebel against it. That's why you are being met with so much argument here.
Now, if you had started this thread off highlighting the positive aspects of more sustainable farming methods-like hydroponics, or the envitro meat that they are developing, and then asked why we aren't yet using these better methods, you probably would have had a much better thread going on.
>>2110961
This argument basically breaks down to strong arguments are mean. I get what your saying but I'm sick of the kind of nonsensical humans are superior or I like meat arguments being treated seriously and polite, well intentioned animal rights activists being treated like their acting like nazis. The only thing shown in this thread is that people don't feel like their arguments have to make sense if they are on the same wavelength as other people. If you dont want to seriously consider the issue then you should admit that to yourself. If this cant be talked about on an animal board in an animal rights thread where should it be talked about, secret vegan enclaves?
I'm getting sick of this animal "equality" shit.
I want to fuck a horse. Follow me here.
I want to fuck a horse that is horny and enjoys me fucking it. Is that a bad thing?
Not just animal rights activists, but a good 90% of the North American population would say it is a terrible thing to do. It is abuse and rape because a horse can't verbally consent. In most places it is illegal, and where it isn't, it is looked down on with disdain.
But let's look at some "humane", "ethical", and accepted treatment of horses.
Does a horse consent to you throwing a heavy saddle over the weakest part of its back, then plopping all 100+ lbs of your weight right on that very same place?
Does a horse enjoy you yanking it's head left or right, digging heel-spikes into it's midsection, just to get it to walk where you want it to and run as fast as you want it to, jumping over arbitrary plastic hurdles with all your weight crashing down on its back when it lands, carrying your ass around just for your amusement?
What do horses gain from being forced to sprint as hard and fast as they can around a circle so that people can gamble money on which horse they think will win the race? I mean, other than stress and exhaustion, paired with a nice bullet between the eyes if it injures itself in the race it had no choice over.
Do you know what some of the regular "care" and "maintenance" techniques are for horses? Owned male horses get a buildup of smegma/precum in their urethra because they don't regularly ejaculate unless they're a breeding stud. The way to get this smegma out is to get a hose with warm water, gently wash the horses genitals, and tenderly stroke the underside of the sheath (where the underside of the penis head would be) until the horse's penis reached full mast. The penis is then washed with warm water, and the caretaker shoves their finger into the horse's urethra, "picking" at it until the smegma is dislodged.
cont...
>>2110955
learn what words mean before you try to use them.
>>2110984
greatest good for greatest number combined with least amount of death. If you and that horse love each other fuck it as much as you want but don't make a snuff film.
They're animals who's only purpose are to die.
Tell me why they deserve to live. Don't tell me that "they have feelings" bullshit because we all know they're not intelligent enough to know what feelings are.
>>2110987
this argument applies just as well to people. Really your the only one that you know is conscious, its time to show them all.
>>2110990
or it would be if anyone else could be shown anything
>>2110984
cont...
If that caretaking method made you close your knees and clench, you'll be happy to know that horses feel the same way about it. All they feel is:
>Getting my flanks brushed, comfy.
>Ooh, that's warm. That feels nice.
>Oh... oh shit, that feels really good. Am I going to cum? Am I going to procrea-
>OH GOD OH GOD NO THINGS DON'T GO IN THERE NO PLEASE NO
It's literally sexually teasing the horse into getting a boner just to punish it for getting aroused with unusual pain. And the only reason this needs to be done is because the horse has been denied orgasm/sex by its owners.
And I don't even need to get into the details of "breaking in" a horse to domesticate it and make it give up on life long enough to plop your ass on its back and make it give you rides. Whips, electric prods, etc.
After all that, I think the least we can fucking do is give a horse a simple handjob once in a while, no? After all the shit we put them through, they deserve to get a little reward for putting up with all of it.
>BUT RAPE!
Do you think animals court each other in the wild? Do you think a horse gets to know another horse, spends some quality time with it, then consents with it to have sex?
When a wild animal wants to fuck another animal, it just fucks it. Stallions will bite onto the back of the mare's mane, yanking its head back to hold it and prevent it from running away when the stallion jams its arm-sized penis into it. The only reason "courtship rituals" exist amongst certain species is because the female would either easily escape from or injure the male that attempts sex, unless the female is willing to sit still and receive it. Otherwise, rape is the law of the land in animal world. There are no "rights", there are no "laws" in nature.
cont...
>>2110983
>I get what your saying
You obviously don't, my whole point was that your communication is piss poor and you're coming off as demanding. If you ask instead of demand you'll get much better results.
You ever heard that old saying, you can lead a horse to the water, bur you can't make it drink? You are trying to make the horse drink and its biting you in return.
>>2110572
You can literally go to jail if you can't afford child support
This thread makes me want a steak more now
>>2110603
So why is it okay to kill soybeans then? Plants are alive just like animals.
>>2110997
This is an anonymous board. One of the only benefits of such a thing is that you don't have to pretend that stupid high status people or stupid high status ideas aren't stupid. Noone is even going to be slightly swayed by a post on something that effects their own physical pleasure. Presenting a watered down feel good argument just makes you an argumentative punching bag for idiots. If more people said what they believed clearly and rationally then maybe people will take them seriously one percent of the time. As it is we only have pseudoreligious gaia huggers and the far left making any argument beside "I personally dont think eating meat animals should be tortured for minor economic gains but whatever I guess". Bastardizing your own beliefs for common consumption undoes them in the long run
>>2107734
You don't need to use a computer. Yet here you are - your participation in and tacit endorsement of our western lifestyle is far more morally bankrupt than the consumption of another living creature. Reduced to its most basic subsistence level, there's very little enivornmental arguement against the consumption of meat. This modern 21st century lifestyle however, is an incredibly disgusting thing - that I am also guilty of and quite ashamed of. I don't shy away from the truth of it however.
Just another case of some touchy-feely PETA fuckwit trying to make themselves good "oh i'm a good person because I don't eat meat" instead of working towards real meaningful change
>>2110996
cont...
And when it comes to horses and humans, consent is pretty easily understood, even if horses can't speak english. When a female horse is presenting her rear to you, winking its vagina, dripping with fluids, and generally backing toward you, there's no fucking question about it, that horse is horny as fuck and wants you (or whatever is up to the task) to either make it cum or cum inside it. If a male horse gets an erection and isn't turning away from you, then it's fucking horny and would want you (or whatever is up to the task) to do something about it. And if a horse doesn't consent, well, one rear hoof to your skull and you'll quickly lose the mental capacity (or life) to ever try fucking a horse again.
An animal never cums and then thinks
>OHH NOO I'M SO VIOLATED THIS ISN'T MY SIGNIFICANT OTHER OH I'VE BEEN SO ABUSED!
Animal brains don't work that way. When an animal cums, all it can process is:
>Success! Hope that got a female pregnant!
or
>Success! Hope I got pregnant!
An animal's prime directive is to survive. It will do whatever is necessary to survive. Procreation is the primary way of ensuring survival of a species. It's how fruit flies, with their 3-day lifespan, are still around today. They fuck all the time and give birth to millions of offspring.
Do I encourage restraining or drugging horses for sexual purposes? Fuck no, that's shitty. But if a horse is conscious and ready to fuck, why not give it a hand?
Yeah, that's a lot of fucking text to justify fucking a horse, but I'm sick of all the hypocrisy surrounding "animal rights". It usually all comes from uneducated and uninformed bleeding-heart activists, grasping at straws for a purpose in life,who assume that animals like horses are just like people except they don't know our language.
>>2111003
its about consciousness, you are not even wrong
>>2111005
>not everything you do is jesus so morals don't matter
>>2110850
That may be true, but you didn't acknowledge the fact you're almost certainly a redundant member of this species wit no positive contribution.
Also, read up on trophic levels, it's entry level stuff.
>>2111007
So then what is consciousness? How is it empirically defined, tested for, and proven?
>>2110955
>impenetrably safe utopia
>>2111010
not yet
>>2111011
I don't know about you, but I'm not usually worried about wolf pack ambushes when I'm buying groceries.
>>2111012
Wut
>>2111017
I answered what I read and not what you wrote. I thought you said it couldn't be empirically defined and tested for when you only implied it.
>>2107734
>Most people will agree that killing for no reason is wrong. Yet the same people will eat a steak for dinner.
But killing animals for steak is a perfectly legitimate reason. God gave us dominion over the animals of the earth. Meat is ESSENTIAL to our diet. Don't give me no bullshit you faggot.
>>2110985
I don't see how humans are not natural.
>>2111027
It's an argument of semantics.
One could argue that humans are not animals, by way of being called "humans" and not being called "animals", despite belonging to the kingdom Animalia.
One could argue that because humans are natural creatures, and they simply rearrange some parts of nature or put them together to form amalgams of natural substances, that plastic is natural too.
And one wouldn't be wrong in that assumption. The rub comes when we start mincing words: What, then, is "natural" when everything is natural? What is artificial, if everything artifical is made up of naturally-occurring substances? Is a pile of rocks artificial because a monkey piled them there instead of the wind blowing them into a pile? Maybe the argument of nature lies in the reasons -why- the monkey piled the rocks there.
In the end, it's all about context, no matter what dictionary definitions one cites. You could argue til you're blue in the face that a seal is a large marine mammal, and that I would be insane for trying to use one to close a tupperware container that I said I was trying to find a seal for. The word "seal" here relies on context.
>>2107734
I just mozied over here from /b/ and after the first few posts I thought "Wow, not a single cursing salt-pillar" and then I found this post and its replies.
>>2111039
>cursing salt-pillar
I get that it's a reference to the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, but I can't make the connection. Elaborate?
>>2107734
I am just going to admit I dont understand your quote.
Its difficult to answer OP because it can mean different things. I am not religious, but I always give thanks for meat to the universe generally and to the animal for the sacrifice, sacrifice isn't exactly the right word.
Human cultures are different. It can be generally said that we have empathy, and most people will get angry at animal abuse. Likewise, CAFOs are typically kept out of sight of the public.
We do perceive animals as a need for food and science. So while the most civilized cultures still disdain animal abuse, we still accept our omnivorous place in the food chain.
I myself dont object to eating meat, but I do expect the animals to be treated and slaughtered in a humane way.
Between us, I have an equal if not bigger grudge with the pet industry. It burns me that any imbecile with a handful of dollars can assume responsibility for a living creature. I wish for some better regulation, but it feels like we are eons from even having the discussion.
>>2110863
That's a given. But I'll default to eating even soy-based chewing gum if I knew it was manufactured in controlled conditions rather than cut out of an animal carcass or grown in mud fields by illiterate peasants. Nature is revolting.
>>2110616
>And we can loose it in a few generations.
Not easily. All the machines could be destroyed, but as long as people still had the knowledge to build more, the "Technology" still exists. As information becomes more freely available, it becomes more and more unlikely that inventions and engineering knowledge will be forever lost.
>>2107746
oh just fuck right off
>>2111003
Plant dont suffer, is that simple and most of the time they regrowth. Animal dont. I respect plant as much than animal tough. They are alive, and live should not be taken without need, and should not be wasted.
>>2111024
Protein are essential not meat. I think you should think more about it. Reflexion isn't a bad thing anon, try your own befiefs, remise them in question and find facts.
>>2107734
Through the ages animals have received better and better treatment
Just the understanding that they have feelings just as real as ours is a relatively new concept
No doubt there's still a far way to go, but there's no way any nation bigger than 30 000 people will outlaw eating of meat within the next 20 years, fighting for it is a dead cause
You need to pick your battles. What would work better would be to fight against the way they live and are killed, or just the down-right needless parts such as fur.
>>2107734
Nigga I'm sorry but they aren't equal. You can love them, and i would kill someone if they were attacking my dog, but they simply are not equal. With that said i'm going to go eat some BACON and EGGS.
>>2107734
Humans have canine teeth for tearing meat, along with the flat teeth for grinding up leaves and shit. We are omnivores, built to eat whatever the hell we want. AND BY GOD I INTEND TO RESPECT THAT
>>2107734
>treat animal as equals
Oh, so I have the same rights as a tiger or a lion to kill my prey for the purpose of feeding myself, right? Isn't it already like this?
1.) If a cow could eat you, it would.
2.) Animals are jerks.
3.) Animals have been scientifically proven to exploit people [because they're weak].
4.) Animals are jerks.
>>2111008
Stop hiding your disregard for the damage you inflict upon the earth behind 'morals
>>2110601
Most bugs reproduce in clutches of hundreds to thousands. Humans reproduce in ones, rarely 2+.
Not all those lives are equal anon, it's how the world works.
>>2107734
I think it's kind of funny how you can die from a disease of the heart when you eat a lot of meat. karma perhaps?
>>2112048
It's the fat that causes it, though, not meat specifically. If you eat a high fat diet, even a vegan one, you're going to get heart disease.
>>2112054
>he doesn't know about good and bad cholesterol
>>2110601
I'm formed only of the vegetal hemisphere. I will forever be a fish yolk.
>>2111042
I think he just meant "salt" with the meaning "angry"
>>2107736
We should. Humans are animals too and to hold such an egotistical view that we're higher than them is fucking BS.
>>2113950
life didn't evolve equally.
it's not bullshit, it's evolution, we're on top of the food chain for a reason.
>Why do people refuse to treat animals equally?
>BSTIALITY IS ANIMAL CRUELTY
every /make animals equal/ peta loser ever
>>2113962
>Why do people refuse to treat animals equally?
>KILL THOSE WHO HARM ANIMALS.
every animal rights page on facebook ever.
>>2108280
This anon gets it.
>>2110616
Being at the top of the food chain doesn't imply that members of that species will never fall prey to predators lower on the rung. That'd be like saying we're not apex because a flu can down some of us.
As for the argument that nowadays the only thing keeping us aloft is our industrial/modern tech is faulty. Do you think our ancestors used firearms and chemical warfare (as examples) to down the predators you mention or the prey we chased? No, we made use of and created simple, but effective, tools. Most importantly our intelligence and ability to organize ourselves in complex social groups helped elevate us beyond being yet another ape species.
Yes, should modern society crash, it'll be chaos. Yes, there will be a marked loss in numbers. No, that doesn't mean we won't be able to adapt to a more wild way of life. Unless it's nuclear annihilation or a crippling pandemic, we wouldn't so immediately lose our place at the top.
I do agree that, one vs. one with other large predators WITHOUT any tools? Yeah, the average person is likely fucked. Thing is, such a situation is primarily conjecture, never a species wide reality.
>>2110585
>basing your moral compass on the actions of animals
nice dude. you eat your own shit too?
>>2114421
>No
we've been using chemicals for a while now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_dart_frog
>simple, but effective, tools.
yeah right, look at all this simplicity.
What I don't understand is, how do you justify eating plants?
Do you just pretend they're not alive? I can do it too. I mean, it's bacon, not pig.
>>2111282
>Plants dont suffer
Except it's been proven they experience pain?
Muh inconvenient truths
>>2116444
>[citation needed]
>>2107734
I do treat animals equally I'm a vegetarian
I don't eat meat, but I also drink milk, because if I have to work a shitty nine to five job I hate every day and live in a small apartment, then it's only fair that the animals do too
>>2107734
because you can't make food without killing animals. How many ground dwelling animals do you think die every time a farmer tills a field, fertilizes, and harvests? Convert all those ranches to farms and you're just killing more of those.
If we're going to kill animals for food no matter what we do, I would rather just have some meat.
Do you want to kill Mrs. Frisby, anon? Is that what you want, you fucking monster?
>>2107734
>meat isn't necessary
Stopped reading right there. Take you vegan bullshit somewhere else.
>>2110984
>>2110996
>>2111006
100% agree. I have had the same thoughts multiple times as well. Same goes for dogs. I mean what's wrong with letting a male dog fuck you, or jerking him off. I too think that forcing them is wrong, but that should be covered by usual animal cruelty laws. I really don't understand the need for special laws prohibiting sex with larger animals.
>>2117300
Burn the bitch- uhh, I mean the witch.
Yeah.
Burn the witch
>>2110601
>if you don't treat some human as inferior
I do anon.
Also fuck on back over to reddit
>>2111432
All of these apply to humans as well though :^)
I've been thinking about veganism for other reasons than you've post it but how 2 do
>>2117540
Vegatarianfag here, anybody who makes any other argument against veganism other then inconvinence is lieing to themselves. Just be honest, for some people the lives of animals who you have never had contact with/a reason to like don't matter.
And that's perfectly OK. I feel some guilt about not being vegan, but at this point in my life it's just not worth it to not eat eggs and cheese.
Buy sustainable, cruelty-free methods if you can, but that's not a reality for some people. If you judge them for that, congratulations. Your a preachy peice of shit.
>>2107734
>Knowing that meat isn't necessary
t. yellow skinned malnourished vegan.
I'm fine with hunting for food and eating animals that are humanely slaughtered.
>Everyone stops eating meat
>Have to kill of all livestock because they are unwanted and won't survive in the wild
>Have to grow more crops to make up for the lack of meat
>Do a shit ton of environmental damage and drive thousands if not millions of animals to extinction because of the land needed for growing crops
It would work in a perfect world, but it is not a perfect world.
>>2110616
Dogs put us at the top of the food chain, with them and some spears and crude knives we were already at the top of the food chain.
We were doing fine when it came to driving animals to extinction long before complicated weaponry existed.
I hate this whole we would be shit without our modern weapons shit. A humans greatest weapon is it's brain that can tie a stone to a stick.
>>2118099
This guy gets it. I'm vegetarian myself, mostly because going full vegan is just too much work and costs more than just vegetarian (if you want to eat something else than vegetables 24/7). I've never tried to convince anyone or force my beliefs on them.
I'm too lazy to read through this thread but I'll give my thoughts on why I support farming meat anyway
I have nothing against killing as long as it's a humane kill. This applies to humans too. I take issue with how it affects those who are still living. Killing a human is fucked up because it is going to leave lasting emotional damage with their friends and family. On a lesser scale, pets too. The owners will be deeply gutted by someone killing their pet, not as much as losing a human companion but still enough to be morally wrong.
A farmed cow on the other hand, isn't going to have anyone mourning it. Not many animals form deep emotional bonds and none as complex as human emotions. The other cows won't be bothered by one of their own disappearing.
>>2118119
>A farmed cow on the other hand, isn't going to have anyone mourning it. Not many animals form deep emotional bonds and none as complex as human emotions. The other cows won't be bothered by one of their own disappearing.
They are.
Cows have friends and get depressed when they're separated.
>>2118123
For a few days maybe. They'll forgot about it pretty quick
