Hey /an/
I've had this little self contained environment going for about a month now (5 weeks to be precise) I've got a beaker the size of a football (soccer ball) that I plan on using next.
Anyway this environment contains some large plants, duckweed, snails ( can't keep count they breed like rabbits) and some detritus worms to breakdown all the snail poop and help put nutrients back in the water. So far this ecosystem has been totally self sustained, I just need to add sunlight and it is thriving. Anyone else do this kind of thing? General discussion is 100% welcome
>>2106955
That's really cool!
If the snails are indeed breeding like rabbits though, a miniature extinction event could befall this little ecosystem. First, the snails could eat themselves out of house and home, and then die. The increased ammonia level in the water from decomposition could kill off whatever is left.
On the other hand, it is possible that the snails will stop breeding once they feel too crowded.
Be sure to monitor this experiment. It is quite fascinating.
Yes, Anon. I do.
>>2107344
That's something I've been monitoring for but it seems that due to the larger snails consuming so much algae, very few babies are actually able to make it, thus balancing everything out. If that starts to happen I'll unseal them and move them to the large beaker.
>>2107365
Awesome. Is there a specific reason you don't use larger plants? Also, what types of organisms are you raising?
>>2106955
That was my goal with this tank, but I keep dicking with it. Still, two partial water changes in 5 weeks isn't too bad. The changes weren't actually because of anything bad happening, either.
Animals: two RCS, one ramshorn, and one amphipod (if it's still alive; I never see it). Plants: java fern, hornwort, java moss, salvinia, water lettuce, and marimo.
>>2107450
>>2107450
There's ventilation on top, and you change the water, so I wouldn't really consider it a self sustained environment. It just a fishtank.
That being said, I love it and would.love to see more pics
>>2106955
Anyone.know why 4chan is turning my pics sideways? They still show up in portrait everywhere else
>>2107519
I added some water once when I switched it from a bowl to a tank, and I changed about half of the water once to clear up the tannins from the wood.
I don't plan on changing it again, but I suupose you're right about it not counting. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that they need to be completely airtight, though I know I'm mostly alone in that thinking.
>>2107573
When you rotate the picture on some phones, the phone doesn't actually rotate the picture, it just makes a note to display the picture rotated. So you need a new app.
>>2107577
>Don't need to be completely airtight
It's not a matter of agreeing or not unfortunately, in order for it to be self sustaining the environment needs to produce it's own gasses along with food, nutrients etc., therefore what you have is nowhere close to being self sustaining.
You're providing fresh water (however infrequently) and allowing an exchange of gasses to occur between the ecosystem and the world around it. Again, that's just a fishtank in every sense.
Still pretty cool though, don't get me wrong I love it.
>>2107581
It's never been rotated. I took the photos in portrait and they're uploading in landscape. I've verified that they are in portrait mode.
>>2107577
you're at that halfway point that used to be popular with fish keepers in the 1970's and 80's.
They used to go years without changing water. People used to brag about how balanced their system was based on how long it lasted without a water change or everything dying.
>>2107599
I'm no expert but I think this is just what 4chan does with phone pics.
>>2107602
Dammit 4chan
Here's my experiment. Used to be a fern in there but it died, the moss is thriving though. I see gnats flying around time to time. Probably inbred retarded by now. Haven't opened it in a year almost.
Got the two other jars today hoping to do something similiar, maybe ill do what you did in one of them OP
>>2107628
Here's someof the snail eggs. I keep meaning to get some candid shots of the little snail orgies they have but I never have a camera handy when I catch them at it.
That's amazing that you're getting gnats going through full phases of growth and reproduction. Insects are generally much more finicky than common mollusks. Is there anything else living in there?
I find the snails useful because they aid in curbing back the algal growth. The detritus worms are necessary to break down all the organic waste, I cultivated them by just scooping weeds, from nearly still water, with a tiny bit of muck attached to them so that all of the necessary bacteria and such are also present. I'm not sure what the plants are that I gathered but they're quite proficient at adapting and fostering new root growth.
I've got a video I can convert to webm if anyone wants, it's just the worms wriggling about furiously as they feed and a couple snails.
If you look hard you can see some of the detritus worms sticking out, they're the thin pink guys near the bottom right in the snail poo. I've gathered from observation that they bury their heads in to eat and leave their posterior ends exposed which they whip about furiously, possibly to aid in respiration. There's not much info I can find besides how to remove them from a fishtank.
>>2107665
Sorry not bottom right they are criss crossed at almost the center of the photo
>>2107665
Forget about the worms, who's that qt? Would establish self-regulating ecosystem with/10.
>>2107689
Lol that's my gf. Didn't realize she was in the screenshot. Sorry to disappoint anon but unlike the snails we are completely monogamous haha
>>2107664
I dont think anything else lives in there, that i can see anyways. Only notice the gnats from time to time, moved houses a month ago and placed the jar in my new bathroom's window, thats when i noticed the gnats. Maybe the light and temp increase helped them?
I'm actually working on a large vivarium right now. Going to convert a 50 gallon fish tank into a planted environment for my pet hissing cockroaches. Got some airplants and tropical things that like high humidity. Im getting cultures of isopods and springtails to help break down soil and detritus. It's basically going to be a "decomposer's habitat". Isnt really self sustained since i need to feed the roaches fruit and such, thinking about maybe getting a crested gecko, since they dont need special lighting and can eat the small nymphs that the roaches birth. I'm just trying to find more info on mixing the two before i commit. Most people are against mixing species so i want to make sure it works before i spend 40$+ on a crested.
Pic related.
>>2107876
Dammit, upside down pic.
Also this is just what it looks like now. Im doing a total overhaul once i get everything in the mail. Im going to attach a corkwood background to mount airplants and bromelids on. Going to add a false bottom for irrigation and put in some nicely formulated soil just for this type of project.
Fuck im excited.
>>2107599
I have an iPhone and I just crop the picture slightly before I post it and it doesn't rotate it then
>>2107409
They take up to much room and someone don't last and die so I stick to alge. I'm actuality raising ostracods
>>2107876
Pretty cool. How large are the roaches? I wouldn't mix the species, maybe a separate tank for the gecko. You could put tons of detritus loving inverts in there though the roaches would get along with them just fine.
>>2107880
You're making me want to do this now I'm excited for you
>>2107895
Yea I'll try that thanks anon
>>2107950
Are you raising them as food for something else or.just for fun? Ostracods are generally pretty hard to see
>>2108050
Hissing cockroaches, so anywhere from about 2 to 3 inches. The gecko is just a dream for now. If i ever get one ill either see how they interact with eachother over a month (my theory is they wont really) and if theres a problem probably just stick my roaches in a smaller tank, and let the gecko have my big one.
>>2108052
It's almost cost me upwards of 200 dollars and thats not including what i already had. Shipping cost are a bitch but if its good quality supplies i dont mind. Been a dream of mine to build one of these for awhile. Check out neherp if youre interested, they have a whole website dedicated to selling and helping people with the vivarium hobby. Some people even have both aquatic and terrestrial environments inside one tank.
>>2107597
You're right, actually. For some reason I kept thinking of the term "self sustaining ecosystem," which I've heard refer to both contained systems and "balanced" systems.
>that's just a fishtank in every sense.
It's different in the sense that fish tanks use equipment, and bowls without any equipment are rarely planted or balanced in any sense.
This tank is an attempt at a reasonably stable environment without any equipment, including artificial lighting. So the two of us are actually doing very different things.
>>2107600
Yeah, I remember reading about that. People still used filters, air pumps, lights, and heaters in back then, though. I'm trying to use plants alone to keep everything balanced.
I would like to try these self-contained ecosystems myself. I would like to add a large diversity of macro inverts to it though like amphipods, copepods, daphnia, rotifers, microworms, and maybe gnats. What plants should I use which would make a neat desktop distraction?
>>2108178
I imagine they won't mind eachother, considering neither preys on the other. Being stuck with a bunch of giant reaches may stress out a gecko but I really have no idea.
Thabks for the advice! I've always been more into aquatic stuff but this sounds like a fun side project for me
>>2108565
Someone on 4chan admitted I was right
I'm now looking out the window for flying pigs
You're also right about fish tanks usually requiring equipment. I've always kept a balanced tank but always needed an airstone to keep the water oxygenated (I'm talking at least a ten gallon, anything smaller and you can easily get a gas cycle going) and always considered them a "fish tank" but I see your point. Let's male this thread an ongoing thing, I want to see how you do and hopefully learn something from it
>>2108567
OP here. I'm not really familiar with aquatic plants I just grab whatever looks interesting out of the water and I.D. it later. Just grab plants from the same body of water that you're getting the inverts from.
I plan on keeping this thread going on /an/ and making a new one once it dies, I'd love to see how your experiment goes.
>>2108567
Get a couple hydra in there those guys are so cool
>>2108058
I just put them in there because I haven't opened any of the bottles since they were made and I wanted to find out what happens. My oldest bottle was probably 7 years old and I can still see Tiny ostracods swimming around. The Mason jar one is probably 4 - 5 years old and the ostracods are way bigger than that one
>>2108707
Not even any small creeks or rivers? That really sucks. Where you from anon?
>>2108709
That's as good a reason as any. Are you able to get pics of the larger ones?
>>2108567
You might need a (comparatively) large tank to keep so many different animals together stably and long-term. The most important plants will be floating or emersed ones. Duckweed, arrowhead, spike rush, etc. When plants have leaves above the water they're many, many times more efficient at putting oxygen into the water and removing nitrogen. The specific types of plants you end up using is going to depend on what's available and how bug of a tank you end up going with.
>>2108667
>Let's make this thread an ongoing thing
Sounds sweet. We can call it /nowires/, haha.
>>2108671
A hydra popped up in my windowsill tank out of nowhere about a week ago. I don't know if it's still in there, but it was really cool while it lasted.
So, /an/ what supplies would I need if I wanted to make one of these on my own? I live in northern New Jersey, and I have a creek near my house.
>>2108754
Miami
>>2108766
I was trying to think of a name, I'll take /nowires/ into account. Any other ideas? I was also thinking /sealedaway/ or /self-contained/ or even /sealed/
Nice hydra bro! Those guys are awesome. I love them because they're the only freshwater cnidarians.
>>2108769
Some rocks for the bottom and the rest you just collect from the water. Like.i mentioned earlier, use robust plants with leaves and stems, along with duckweed on top. Collect a bit of sediment ( not too much) to ensure you get detritus worms and don't be afraid to add some decomposing plant matter that you find in the water. I'd start with snails and small inverts as they produce a decent amount of poop for the worms to turn into fertilizers.
For containment use a Mason jar, a beaker with a cork in it (get the cork at any hardware store) or you can use pic related.
Good luck, and be sure to post updates with photos as you go!
>>2108772
... Not to be a smart-ass but did you perhaps consider the Miami River?
>>2109048
Thank you! I just have couple of questions.
How many snails/ invertebrates should I look for? Which invertebrates should I look for if I can't find snails or want more than just snails? What plants would you recommend alongside duckweed?
>>2109044
Hydra are cool as hell. I had some in my tank but had to get rid of them so they wouldn't kill the rcs fry
>>2109190
I started with a couple snails, and there were some snail eggs attached to the plants so bow I have 5 or six. Leave some air space in the top because a lot of aquatic inverts still use lungs and therefore need to fill up at the surface once in a while.
If you want more than just snails, catch some water bugs or even a couple minnows permitting you have a large space for them and lots of plants for oxygen.
As far as plants go, I already answered that question a couple times in the thread so go check that out.
Do you have any ideas for your container yet?
>>2109200
I agree hydra are totally bro tier
Also that's a good point larger hydra would probably eat the fry fucking savages.
>>2109307
I was thinking pic related could work, I'm just not sure if it is too small. If it is I will scrounge up a mason jar.
For plants, I have some grasses growing in the creek. Think I should include them?
>>2109365
Shit forgot the pic.
>>2109310
>fucking savages
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kukv0AtIVdU
>>2109365
Just buy a bigger pic related
As far as the grasses go, shoild be OK but I'm no expert lol
>>2109413
Heil based hydra
We need to make these guys the mascots of /an/
>>2109365
Go to your local thrift shop and see what kinds of glass containers they have guaranteed success
>>2109051
Miami river is very far north of me.
It's also incredibly filthy and over constructed in the ghettos.
Literally, it used to be that finding dead bodies was a reoccuring thing and wasn't out of the norm.
It isn't being a smart-ass remark, because not living in Miami shows me the pristine ignorance you have of this shithole city. I wish I were you.
>>2108567
>>2106955
This is literally my thing.
I have been making tanks from pondwater, scum, gravel, etc about twice a year since I was a kid. I have had tanks so advanced they had freshwater clams! I am really happy to see a thread about this pop up finally. Unequipped, Unmanaged, countertop ecosystems are the shit.
So I am preparing for the best one I have ever made. This will be my apex pond tank, and I have been raising a newt to house in it during it's aquatic stages. (I'll release it once it goes terrestrial)
My plan is to replicate the seasonal ponds in my area of Oregon. in terms of Macro-Vertebrates we have Pacific chorus (tree) frogs, and a few types of newt (Including Taricha species, Taricha granulosa containing more than enough tetrodotoxin to kill 60 men), and that is about it for things you can keep in a tank.
Macroinverts are amazing though, we have a variety of copepods that I haven't identified, with one species that is almost 4mm long. (Huge for a freshwater copepod, I haven't seen one like it) Cyclops are red and pretty, and some daphnia and pea shrimp. We have hydra, and freshwater clams in some streamy ponds. Also plenty of water beetles and seasonal larvae that you can toss in for little bits, not extended periods though.
Going to try and grab some Pennyroyal, small rushy grass stuff (plants aren't my thing),
and some moss that can handle low light as well. And, since fungi are also amazing, I will toss in some twigs inoculated with turkey tail mycelium, to produce aesthetically pleasing mushrooms, and provide food for bugs.
Pic is of my larval Taricha granulosa (suspected to be)
>>2109461
>>2109051
Would it be possible to do this, but with saltwater? I could use chaeto algae and let it grown and it could be a nitrate diffuser. Then, I could find a rock with lots of algae, amphipods and other hitchhikers. Amphipods would eat the algae; reproduce. Then would die out as there would be less chaeto. When their population dies, chaetos comes back, and the amphipods rise again. There could be a marine shrimp like a(pic related) brown grass shrimp that would be the amphipod's apex predator. It could use a little tweaking, but it could work right?
Alright peeps I'm about to go out and get some plants and critters for the beaker, pic related and I used a quarter to give an idea for scale. If I'm lucky there'll be some hydra attached to the plants I grab. The stones I bought at a dollar store in the home decoration section and I'm buying a kitchen sieve to sift through mud and catch critters. I'll update once it's all done.
>>2109461
Yea I'm up in Canada where everything is beautiful I had no idea the Miami River was so shitty. I'd suggest going to one of the swampy areas and just getting shit out of there, even a bog has critters in it.
Sorry for your struggle
>>2109481
Wow that's awesome. I would love to see pics as you start to build this apex system ( and also some pics of your current setups). Those ostracods sounds cool as fuck I've never seen them that big. We have freshwater class here in BC as well and plenty of fresh water isopods that I'm going to try to catch today. Please please please post regular updates on this I want to see.
>>2109499
I know marine systems are a hell of a lot more complex than freshwater, and it seems as if you're a lot more well informed than I am on them. My best advice would be to try this on a small scale in a jar to see if it works before moving up to something larger. Post pics when you do!
I want to take a moment to thank everyone who is participating I expected this thread to be trimmed in half a day and we're already almost a week in now. This is a subject that really excites me and I love seeing that other people are just as enthused as I am.
NJ fag here, should pic related be big enough? If it is I will start grabbing stones and sediment from the creek, along with some grasses and other plants growing in the water.
>>2109499
>Would it be possible to do this, but with saltwater?
A company made a business out of just that.
>>2109048
Should I be using the water from my nearby pond or filtered water from home?
>>2109538
Alright everyone commenced operation "Heil Hydra", where we spread the joy of /nowires/ to the rest of /an/
>>2109542
Thanks for dropping in, New Jersey. Pic related is perfect. Be sure not.l to grab too much sediment as it will poison the water especially if the source is stagnant. Post updates, and Heil Hydra!
>>2109587
This is actually.one of the things that inspired me, but I knew that with the right knowledge a more complex environment could be sustained.
>>2109644
Heil Hydra!
>>2109646
Awesome! I will start gathering things tomorrow afternoon. The creek is not stagnant, but I will be careful with the sediment. Should a layer of about half an inch to an inch be about right? The jar is about 8 inches tall and 4 wide. I'll also keep an eye out for snails and smaller water plants. Rocks should be pretty easy. If I find crawfish, should I toss them in too, or would they be too hard to keep alive/in balance?
>>2109633
Preferably the same water you grab your critters from. Heil Hydra!
Hail Hydra!
>>2109653
CRAYFISH ARE BASTARDS THAT EAT EVERYTHING THAT MOVES
That being said, you can keep them in a separate tank. I've raised crawdads before but I always used an airstone, do some research and see how they tolerate low oxygen environments. What species of cray are you using? (or if you don't know, give me a description)
As far as the sediment goes, I don't even do a full layer, I just add some muck to ensure there are worms etc and allow the snails to create their own sediment. Small pebbles (gravel size) make a good bottom. Get lots of snails as they help filter water and produce fertilizing sediment (shit)
>>2109669
And a new meme is born
Quick update, the beaker is full and I'm waiting for the water to settle so I can get some pics. Quick roster:
>large caddisfly larvae (+- 1")
>freshwater clams
>various detritus worms
>snails
>unidentified aquatic isopods
>unidentified shrimp looking guys (1-2 mm)
>various planaria
And that's all I've id'd so far. I'll post pics later this evening. Keeping my fingers crossed for some bro tier hydra.
Heil Hydra
>>2109670
Well, I didn't know that. I'll leave any crayfish alone then. I'm completely new to this, so that's why I was asking. I don't own any crays, otherwise I probably would have known that lol.
>>2109683
That's fine! This thread is for beginners as much as it is for those with experience. My arms are wide open to anyone who wants to pick up this hobby.
>>2109689
Also Heil Hydra
>>2109529
Here was my process today.
-I gathered enough clay-sand from the bottom of a river to fill the tank about an inch deep (10 gal) I usually choose river sand, clay or gravel to avoid stirring a ton of stuff into the water, I've noticed if you fuck the water up too bad it can not settle to clear again. I layered it in the bottom and actually used a box fan to dry the very top layer of it, to limit mixing in even more. After it had a nice dry skin I planted. I found some unidentified mint that isn't pennyroyal, some grassy rushy thing, and some basic water weed that was thriving submerged. All were growing either on the banks of the pond, or submerged. Also got two types of floating plantlet, one is duckweed, the other is way cooler than duckweed. Weird and red, it's hydrophobic so if I submerge it it floats to the top and flips itself right side up again. I added one large rock to break the surface of the water.
Once planted I added some spring water (from the store) to fill it to half my desired volume, leaving more space for the remaining half of pond water and the creatures inside. I chose half spring water because it is very clear, and also it has some minerals for the many crustaceans and snails. It is unnecessary, but I wanted a settled and clear tank fast. I very very carefully poured the water in over the top of the rock, so, so outrageously slow as to prevent mixing in of the sediment. It could be better to set up a weak siphon with tiny tubing if you really wanted to not mix it up.
Now I am letting it sit and settle. I got everything together about 3 hours ago, and it has already mostly cleared up thanks to the measures I took (clearing up of muddy water can usually take two or three days). I have the newt larvae in a filtered separate tank waiting to be added, and the bullfrog tadpole is sitting in an unfiltered jar, also waiting. Now I wait until everything is settled to the point that it matches the original water, and then add my organisms.
>>2109808
I'll have pics of the tank, bullfrog, and newt larvae tomorrow once I get a hold of a camera.
Yes,
Pic related. System is linked together and requires energy input from frozen food. Nutrient uptake via protein skimming and algae. Algae biomass removed from the system.
Many different micro organisms that all have their own role including copepods, worms, etc.
A lot more going on than a little water bottle with a cap, but I'd like to think of it as a self contained environment to some degree.
Which one of you retards actually believes this shit will ever work?
>>2109814
It sounds balanced, but not really "contained". Separate concepts, each with their own merit.
>>2109808
In the name of Hydra, man, you are a genius. The spring water is inspired.
Pics?
>>2109814
This is a balanced system, not a self sustaining one. This thread is /nowires/.
That being said, super cool set up.
>>2109815
For a second I took you seriously and then I saw the tripcode.
>>2109815
Heil Hydra
>>2109808
This gives me the idea to add dissolved mineral supplement to my water...
Anyone have any ideas on what kind of fish would work in this setup, also would a few rcs make it without a filter?
>>2109837
Enjoy your algae scum in a bottle, because that's pretty much the best you can do.
I feel like this whole thread is just a "How long can I keep this alive in a bottle?" contest.
There's a difference between a self "sustaining" system and a self "contained" system.
Check out my self contained systems guys
>>2109854
I wanted to make mead before, but I didn't have my own place. Then I got my own place and I had forgotten about it.
You're the only scum here pal. I've done this before and it works.
>>2109814
I've seen your setup before, just wanted to say I still think it's amazing.
>>2109854
>Implying this is anywhere near the complexity being discussed
>>2109854
I thought this was jenkem from the thumbnail
Well, I got a whole bunch of Hydra, pic related is the largest so far. The critters all seem to be thriving so far, a lot of them are mating already which I take as a sign that they aren't stressed and the conditions are favorable. Heil Hydra
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dl_oVns2oa8
Found our new overlords.
Kind of related here. What's the best time of year to look for dragonfly nymphs?
Also, I remember reading about an animal vaguely similar to a feather duster worm, but freshwater and only about half an inch long, but I can't remember what it was. Any ideas?
>>2110057
>>2109878
It IS jenkem. Jenkem, in reality, is a self contained system. :)
>>2110093
OP here. Not really, as it has a finite amount of resources that don't produce more of the same resources. The shit isn't going to make more shit
Made me frown/10 shit tier bait
>>2110057
Welcome to /nowires/!
Aquatic larvae usually can be found late April through mid May. Where abouts are you anon? As far as the worm you speak of goes, I'm not certain I've ever heard of it but I'm very interested to learn what it is. Can you draw us a picture? Can you recall it's taxonomic associations?
>>2110180
Judging by what anon said, it's possibly a polychaete worm. Although polychaetes are usually marine. Also, does anybody live near areas with freshwater bryozoans? That could be a neat addition to a self-sustaining ecosystem.
>>2110057
dragonfly larvae can be found all year long. most bigger species take 1 or more years to develop
>>2109918
Heil Hydra!
NJfag here again. I just got home and will be gathering things very soon. I'm gonna use some decorative gravel from an old fishtank I dug up, after cleaning it of course.
>>2110188
Ok, I'm back. Got some sediment and muck mixed in with the gravel at the bottom. You can't see them right now, but I put two smaller rocks that had some moss and a smaller plant that was growing attached to one of them. Then some larger plants that were growing submerged in the water, followed by the creekwater itself. I didn't look for snails or other inverts yet, as I want to let the water settle first.
>>2110217
Looks aight. Just look closely at the water to see any critters chilling.
Well, a couple of the larger caddisfly larvae passed away but the little guys are still going. Everything else seems to be thriving, I've identified almost 20 hydra and a lot of them are budding.
>>2110181
That was my thinking as well though I've never heard of a fresh water polychaete.
As far as bryozoans go I've yet to encounter one but I know BC is full of them. I'd sure like to find a colony.
>>2110183
That tally depends where you are. Where I'm from they're seasonal, spawning in the spring. The winters hit -35.
Thank god I moved to BC.
>>2110217
Yea, be sure to let that settle. You want it to be crystal clear before you add anything.
Heil Hydra!
I just wanna say I really appreciate you guys not giving any of the low-effort bait in this thread any attention. Surely that says something about this board's average user.
I want to try this with a large enough container to do a half-land, half-water thing. Right now I have a glass pickle jar but if there's something larger I could find cheap I'd love to hear.
Also air. Should I poke some holes in the lid or would that disqualify it as self-contained? What's a good animal:plant ratio to start with to minimize the chances of snuffing everything out?
>>2110357
Don't poke holes. The whole idea of a selfcontained ecosystem is that all of the gases and everything is created and recreated in the container. Faunal bioload is best kept at a minimum. a good terrestrial fauna would be gnats, fruit flies, drain flies. Aquatic fauna would be ostracods, copepods, amphipods, rotifers, planaria, hydra(all hail hydra), and snails. Definitely a higher plant to animal ratio. Animals will populate, die-out and repopulate from mini extinctions, and repeat.
Here is my tank. I waited until the water cleared up a bit more than in the pic, and added the pond water and creatures, which aren't shown. I am waiting until I can get a different, better camera to show the large variety of copepods/isopods/ostracods. I want to take a video, it really shows how teeming the water is. I poured a jar of water slowly through a bowl in batches, using a little pipette to suck out creatures I wanted. I figure it gives me a better chance of getting a breeding population going, and if I add too many of something, they'll just die back or something will eat them.
The tadpole is awesome. I am actually going to keep the newt larvae separate for now, as I thought about it and as soon as it's mouth widens it will probably try to munch on my newt. I like the newt a lot more than the tadpole, so it can just stay in it's own tank for now. I figure one gigantic bullfrog tadpole is probably a big enough toll on the vegetation anyways. It is basically a cow, the thing shits constantly. More than a goldfish shits. A whole lot of shit, in a constant chain basically. Like a shit tail. This tadpole is pretty shitty altogether compared to the elegant newtlet though. I'll get a nice photo of it's stupid little chubby face tonight.
Hello just wanted to say me and other anons decided to make a facebook group for /an/ users, its closed so personal info wont be shared if you feel like taking this board eith you and are not afrid of sharing your love for nature in a more public enviroment join
/groups/1757351397884821/
>>2110420
Water looks a bit bad in the photo, but it is clearing up rapidly.
>>2110324
OP here, amen and Heil Hydra
>>2110357
I would do this, however I caution you to start it on a small scale to find the right ratios and work your way up. Use only small organisms that require little care and can survive am array of haibitats
>>2110423
OP here. I'd love to thanks for reaching out.
>>2110420
Great setup. My only advice is more plants, with such a large space you need to ensure that you're producing a lot.of oxygen. Good work!
>>2110446
All the plants I added are ones that spread very fast by rhizome. The mint is currently throwing up two new shoots, with more buds forming. The other plant in the corner had formed an insanely dense mat as well where I found it, so I think it is probably going to thicken up pretty well.
>>2110455
Good thinking.
Some more hydra. There's gotta be about 50 of these things!
>>2109814
Isn't that just a refugium?
>>2110420
You might not want to have that bone in there, it might leach out harmful oils and fats.
Trust me, i process bones as a hobby. If there is a film on top of your water, you will know thats not a good bone.
Hey all, OP here
Super excited because I was observing pic related after I'm sure I saw both of the white fuzzballs move, sure enough I noticed that they are indeed living and will violently contract once in a while (presumably catching food)
They are about 1mm in diameter and appear to be some sort of fuzzy net. I have never seen nor heard of such a creature and I'm hoping you guys can provide some insight on these peculiar organisms.
Heil Hydra!
>>2110519
Woops forgot pic related
>>2110510
I leached it in sunlight and other water beforehand, I figured that might be an issue. I wanted some extra calcium in there for shrimps and such.
>>2109854
Nice, very nice.
Just bought a bunch of rotifer and water flea eggs can't wait for them to arrive
>>2110560
Awesome!
>>2110768
Can't wait to see updates on this anon
>>2110529
Dead coral, snail shells or eggshells would provide slow release calcium.
>>2110789
I'm so excited! I think we're making an old unpopular hobby into something! Just wait until loads of websites start making online stores stores solely for the purpose of /nowire/ hobbyist collections. Just like they did with fishtanks.
>>2110768
You are our newest victim!
I mean...
uh...
Welcome Aboard!
NJfag here /nowires/. The sediment in my ecosystem to be has cleared up quite nicely and I'm ready to go find snails. I just have to wait until the thunderstorm is over.
Do I have too much plant? I think I have too much plant
>>2110904
You would be better off getting rid of some plant. You want the plant to grow and fill out itself. Also, maybe while you're getting snails, get more sediment. That's you're filtration. Otherwise, it looks as beautiful as it should look ugly. In a good way.
Just id some OC. You like?
>>2110937
*did
>>2110937
OP here.
what a fucking glorious bastard.
>>2110904
this is perfect!
>>2110937
Goddamn son. Heil Hydra!
>>2106955
Not exactly well versed in this sort of thing but quite curious, how does that smell?...
>>2111041
I guess if you fart in a glass box with no vents, do you think the people outside will smell it? I've never kept one, but that's what I guess it smells like.
>>2111041
its sealed so I have no idea
I reduced the amount of plant. Snails will be searched for tomorrow.
So /nowires/, any tips on where in the creek to look for snails? I don't think I ever saw them, but I never paid much attention to the creek before.
>>2111687
If theres any pieces of wood or big rocks sticking out of the water, you can try taking them out and checking them. Theres bound to be some type of critter attached to it.
>>2111149
Hey, how's your /nowire/ going?
>>2111904
I will be searching for snails tomorrow. Right now the water is settled, the excess plants have been cleared, and I added a couple of rocks.
What are some good online resources I can look into to start my own self contained environment? Are there any Aussies here who can recommend some local plant or animal species to start off with? I have a backyard pond that I can 'harvest' snails and maybe other inverts from. What is a good size tank to start with?
>>2112046
Well, here, and whatever you can find on Google. I don't know if it's a common hobby. Anything the size.of a large.mason jar or a large rounded beaker should work
>>2111687
Snails tend to hang out pretty much everywhere. If you notice an oval blob of jelly with dots in it attached to some plants they're most likely snail eggs
>>2112046
I cant wait to see some cool Australian invertebrates and pond creatures. Get it going!
Small floating plants are a good bet, so are small-leaved plants that seem to grow at any level in the water
As for critters, lift up some rocks, and check the rock itself and the space under it. Disturb weeds near the edge of the pond and see if anything runs out of them. If you really cant find anything, just take a fine mesh net and run it through the weeds and water, when you pull it up you will have copepods and junk at least. For those of you having trouble finding stuff, I urge you to really spend 5 minutes at the edge of your pond, totally still. So many things poke their heads up through the muck, or come out to swim when they think you aren't there.
Need help identifying this species. Also does this count as a accidental self sustainable environment?
>>2106955
OP here.
For our friends south of the Canadian border, I've found a website from which you can order eggs for various small freshwater crustaceans: arizonafairyshrimp (add dot com at the end)
Sadly they don't ship to Canada.
The large environment I started is doing great, there's a ton of hydra, some of which have taken up residence on the snails for some added mobility. Alongside them are various planarians, annelids, some species of tube worm, isopods, water fleas, some small shrimp, caddisfly larvae, and what I assume are a could keep baby leeches swimming about.
There is a curious organism that I have yet to identify, it's a fuzzy mass of small branches attached to a central stalk l, the width of which barely exceeds that of a hair. It's about 0.5mm in diameter and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what it is. It appears to be colonial as I find small masses of them attached to leaves. Every once in a while the "arms" will contract, as if catching small bits of food.
Hail Hydra!
>>2112515
The arm thing sounds like water mold
>>2112515
Hydras are learning to utilize snails. They are evolving. They will either see you as their God or rebel and kill you.
Heil Fucking Hydra
>>2112612
I am equally OK with both scenarios
>>2112565
Yea but they move, I've never caught them in the act but the move from place to place, and I've witnessed them contracting their "arms"
>>2112515
How big is this? It sounds like at least 5 gallons. Do you have any pictures?
hey i want to try this. is there any thing specific i need to get started?
>>2113850
First off, get a mason jar, a jam/jelly jar.
Then, find a pond/creek with a lot of muck, and plants.
Collect the muck and a small amount of plants and fill it up with the water from the source into the jar.
After the water settles, take an aquarium net, and scoop up everything you get in 1 or 2 scoops and put it all in the jar. After, find a snail or 2 underneath rocks and proceed to put them inside as well.
Take the jar home, and leave it sealed with the lid on tight, and set it in an area that gets a lot of sunshine.
Now you're part of /nowires/!
>>2112515
>a few of you are calling these guys ispods. They're actually called amphipods
Oh cool! As for your mystery creature it seems you got yourself some freshwater byrozoans
>>2113927
Forgot the pic
>Amphipods
>>2112515
Something like this OP?
If so these are byrozoans
>>2113930
>>2113927
They could either be amphipods and isopods. Both have marine and fresh water species as well as a nice diversity of fully terrestrial species. Rolly Pollies and Wood Louse are among the most common terrestrial isopods, while many land amphipods are less known.
So /nowires/ NJfag here. What are these? I found them attached to the plant, which I broke the piece off of for containment. There are frogs and bugs in the creek, if that helps.
>>2114012
Is there a pic we could look at?
>>2114012
Forgot pic related
OP here
>>2113172
Pic related, with a quarter for scale
>>2113850
The same stuff you find in a pond! Just figure out how to balance it out and start with small, simple setups using snails and plants and then work your way up to larger organisms. Good luck, an post pics! Also what this anon said, although I prefer a larger setup >>2113870
>>2113927
Anon how can you know what I'm referring to when you didn't see a picture? To be clear, I have both in my setup.
As for the bryozoan suggestion, I believe you are correct, I've only seen the larger colonies but I think these are just tiny ones.
>>2113935
I think they are bryozoans but clearly not that kind as I said they were 0.5mm diameter. Thanks though!
>>2113944
My gf thought it was pretty cool to see underwater pillbugs, and lol'd at my hydra worship.
>>2114012
>>2114028
I can't clearly see but if it's a gelatinous mass it's most likely amphibian eggs but I could be wrong. Any more pics?
On a final note my friends, I have sprained my ankle hiking so I won't be starting any new setups in the next couple weeks, however I do still have the rotifers and shrimp eggs coming in the mail so we all that to look forward to
Heil Hydra!
>>2114173
Here's another pic. If they are amphibian eggs I will release them back into the creek.
>>2114334
They look green. Are they gelatinous, or more filamentous? It could just be a mass of algae
>>2114334
Spent amphibian eggs. Once the tadpoles ditch the old sac and jelly stuff gets colonized by green or brown algae.
I need a goddamn camera! I have freshwater Acarids (mites) in my pond tank, something I have only seen once before in my super healthy one. These things are awesome. Imagine a small swollen tick that swims underwater by inefficiently thrashing eight legs. I was wondering what they eat, until I watched one swim up to the side of the tank munching on a Daphnia as big as it was! I have at least three hydra, and the newt and bullfrog tadpole are happily growing. The larval newt is almost twice as big as it was, and is starting to get dark pigments. Bullfrog is just starting to get tiny leg nubs.
I also had some sort of large maggot that had a breathing tube sticking out of the soil, but I think the newt probably got it.
I am really hoping all of my copepod/amphipod/ostracods keep thriving. I have noticed copepods swimming around with egg sacs, so I think they are breeding. The ostracods (mostly Daphnia) have been disappearing, so I think the mites are probably hunting them faster than they are breeding. Oh well, once the mites eat too much they will starve out and the daphnia will come back and vice versa.
>>2114524
Those mites are orange right? I've seen tons of them back home in Ontario. Sounds like a pretty cool setup you've got going, however, is it /nowires/? ie sealed, self sustained ecosystem. As much as I appreciate you sharing and bumping the thread, this is for setups with the aforementioned description.
That being said, you should migrate some of the critters and the hydra into a /nowires/ setup and post pics so we can see.
