Hi /an/,
I'm in search of another animal for a vivarium.
I already have a bearded dragon and am interested in something cheaper, since I don't want to pay for a second set of lightning / heat.
I read corn snakes are rather cheap in maintenance. Is this true?
Also thought about bird spiders, but I'd be more interested in something which doesn't hide all day long and I actually can observe.
All snakes require some amount of supplementary heat.
Look for used reptile setups/aquariums.
These things are so, so cheap. I know because I've had to sell a few Exo Terra setups. You're talking $400 in cage/decor/heat/etc for $50.
It's a great sham of the pet trade. This stuff is overpriced like crazy. Lighting and radiant heat panels are about the things that have realistic new/resale prices. I am staring at 2 PVC cages (one $500, and one $350) here in my living room. I'll be lucky to get $75 for either of them. Exo Terra cages - let's say 18x12x24, that's a $200 cage - $30 or so used.
Never buy this shit new unless you're deadly serious about keeping it forever. Take it from a 20 year vet of the trade.
>>2093078
Thanks, I thought about buying used as the prices for new cages etc. Are horrendous.
Since snakes also need heat lamps that's going to get hard. I'm paying already 2 bulbs with combined ~ 80 watts and wouldn't want to pay electric bills for an additional pair.
Guess another reptile won't be manageable.
>>2093110
How can you possibly be this cheap? Are you German?
>>2093110
Well, snakes can be fairly cheap. UTH (Under Tank Heater) run at about $30, but you don't have to replace it often like a bulb. Some people actually use heating pads. You'll need to get one that doesn't have a auto shut off. You need two thermometers. I'm using two cheap alcohol based ones that are $1 at Walmart. And then a tank. For hatchlings/young corns you'll only need a 10 gal. And then substrate water dish, and a hide (you can use just plastic bowls for hide and water)
For me anyway, the most expensive things were just the setup, and it didn't even cost much. After that it's just buying rodents. They have packs of frozen pinkies (which you'll need for a baby corn) at pet stores. They run about $13 but there's 4 and you'll only need to feed the snake once a week.
>>2093110
Snakes don't need lamps. Heating pads and tape are best. Snakes get heat from the ground, they don't really bask like a lizard. The only reason I have a bulb is because it's cold in my house and I have a tropical type snake. And don't get basking bulbs like for lizards. There's blue and red bulbs that emit less heat.
>>2093170
>Snakes don't need lamps. Heating pads and tape are best. Snakes get heat from the ground, they don't really bask like a lizard.
All reptiles thermoregulate. The source of the heat doesn't even matter. They need a lot of it from a concentrated area.
If you're going to be lame and not use a lamp for a basking spot, use a large hide directly above the floor space that the UTH is under to make a "hotbox" ... floor heat alone (not enclosed in a tight space) will not be sufficient to heat the snake and it will be noticable in their lack of activity and low energy levels. If you want a snake to put on a show, give it a lamp/panel, or a hotbox as a last resort.
The simplest way to explain it without getting technical, is you know how when you're in a tent or other small enclosure space (even a blanket over your head) and it gets hot real fast and stays like that? Then you take the tent/bag off and the fresh air cools you down? That's like a normal UTH vs putting a hotbox on top of it. BUT, the best feeling heat is being in the sun with fresh air blowing over you, and the sun warming your skin. It's healthy, clean, and natural.
But whatever. Your animals, you're call.
>>2093170
>The only reason I have a bulb is because it's cold in my house and I have a tropical type snake.
Bulb with tropical reptiles is bad. Can't maintain proper humidty with a bulb drying everything out. Interior heat panel with closed roof will get you 85f and 85 relative humidity with only 1 misting a day.
>>2093170
>don't get basking bulbs like for lizards. There's blue and red bulbs that emit less heat.
Bulbs come in different wattage. You can get whatever you want as long as there's a thermostat/rheostat attached to regulate it. I always used 150w CHE's because if I ever needed that much heat, it's there. Otherwise it's always running at 1/4-1/2 power.
Color means nothing. Blue/Red tinted bulbs are generally used to emulate the night time cycle of light for when you want to see inside after hours. Ideally, you'd be using a heating panel or radiant heat bulb that emits no light for overnight heat (and day, too, with a separate light not specifically for heat)
Also, please don't give other people advice on their pets when you're not well-versed on the subject. That's how animals end up dead. Just saying.
Pic is my frilled (tropical bio-active PVC enclosure, 85f / 80RH, 80w Radiant Heat, misted at 8pm every night)
I'll never understand this shit. If you're pinching pennies and looking for the cheapest animal AND setup, then an exotic fucking pet is not for you.
Most pets aren't cheap. When you compromise their health and living conditions to save a few bucks, you're a shit person. Quit being a Jew and get over it.
>>2093255
I don't agree with the tone, but I do agree with the point. There's a huge difference between a cheap glass aquarium with a mesh lid and a PVC cage, for example. It's a domino effect. With a wire cage, it needs stronger heat input. Heat dries out the air, now you need humidity. You have to over-mist to compensate for the heat/humidity escape through the giant mesh top. Everything gets soaked, becomes a breeding ground for disease. All the while the water's presence further lowers the ambient temperature requiring yet more heat. The cycle goes around and around.
If you are trying to maintain recommended heat and humidity for most reptiles, this is what happens in a ZooMed 'terrarium' (20g long cheap aquarium with mesh lid, $40 at petsmart).
.... or you spend $300 on a PVC cage with a heat panel. Lightly mist once a day. All problems associated with cheap cages/bulbs/etc are gone.
Do the right thing. Reptiles will live decades if their environment replicates their natural one. Fuck around with bad husbandry and cheap equipment, and they won't make it 3 years.
>>2093445
You are right, anon. I apologize for the saltiness. I just have an enormous passion for these animals and it infuriates me to see people doing their damnedest to get involved with snake/reptile keeping with either zero knowledge, zero money, or zero fucks to give.
OP, it's a fact of life that pets cost money. Exotic pets cost MORE money. I have a very beautiful BCO that had to have emergency surgery that cost well over $1,000. I had only had the poor thing for a couple of months and that little guy hated me, but I sucked it up and paid for it because pet ownership is a commitment. These are living creatures who become sick, feel pain, and suffer like us. These animals depend on their owners for proper care and husbandry, and when you cut corners on things like their enclosures, it is a detriment to their well-being. Snakes can live for 20-50 years in many cases, this isn't a cheap short term pet you pick up at random. I see so many ball pythons/corn snakes in shit health dumped onto Craigslist for free. Don't be one of them, anon.
>>2093508
i dont blame your tone. you have a valid point. my best friend explained it to me that if youre going to get a pet that could live anywhere from 10-20 years there's no point in going cheap. whynot get an animal that you know youre going to love. dont pussy foot around it op.
>>2093445
desu i switched from a 200 dollar Exo Terra to a 20 dollar 116 quart sterlite tub and it keeps humidity and heat like a champ. You don't need an expensive enclosure to keep an animal in good shape. I use heat cable on a thermostat buried in the substrate to warm it, which cost me about 15 dollars. Thermostat was another 20. Substrate is a two dollar, 40 lb bag of organic topsoil mixed with woodchips and leaf litter, with springtails and isopods mixed in to take care of poopies.
On the flip side, it's not aesthetic at all. Looks okay when it's open but it's still just a tote.
Taiwan Beauty snakes will do fine at room temps if they don't drop below 75. Put its cage near your beardie if you want a lightly warmer side. Kept one for nearly 10 years at room temp. Grew to 7 feet, filled out nicely, active as hell at 72-75. They get antsy and try to leave their cage if temps start going above 80.
>>2094474
Oh, and it didn't die. I gave it and several others away before I moved. It's still alive and healthy.
>>2094379
>if youre going to get a pet that could live anywhere from 10-20 years there's no point in going cheap
I have never gotten my wife to see this logic. It was always a huge battle.
"You spent $500 on a cage for a fucking snake?" ...
"b-b-but baby, it will live for 30 years. That is $16 a year. It's nothing! " ...
"ZOMG FIVEHUNDREDDOLLARS WHARGABRBALRBL"
... that's about how that goes.
>>2094507
The same kind of people who would get 20$ tattoos instead of something of quality.
>>2094509
Exactly. I want quality everything. Not because it's fancy, but because it lasts. She wants temporary everything because it's cheap ... except her clothes, shoes, and purses of course. Let's not get crazy here.
I settled for a $250 BYB dog last year because I couldn't convince her to get a full blooded dog with a known genetic and medical history, complete with the AKC cert. Know what happened 6 months later? Our 2nd dog is full blooded, AKC registered, with a known medical and genetic history. She learned her lesson after the first and it's terrible behavior from being taken too young. The AKC one is an angel beyond description.
But she still won't listen to me about getting quality kitchenware or couches or anything else.
>>2094523
>buy from BYBs
>complain about the results
shoot yourself and your faggot wife for killing a shelter dog so you could buy from a BYB.
>>2094532
>shoot yourself and your faggot wife for killing a shelter dog so you could buy from a BYB
Because all unadopted dogs from breeders go to a magical dog wonderland where the squirrels are slow and the doghouses are made of steak - unlike shelter dogs who burn in hell. Right? So all unwanted dogs aren't created equal?
News flash: All unwanted dogs have the same fate. Doesn't matter where they come from. Get off your high horse.
Some of us don't lack impulse control or the ability to plan ahead. And we're why breeders will always exist.
People that DO lack impulse control and the ability to think ahead are exactly why shelters exist, both intake and output. Who is really at fault here? Go kill stupid people and the problem will fix itself. It's the smart ones that support organized breeding.
Hippies need to get their shit together.
>>2094546
>So all unwanted dogs aren't created equal?
BY BUYING THE UNWANTED BYB DOG YOU ENCOURAGE THE BYB TO CONTINUE BREEDING, IDIOT
by adopting from a fucking SHELTER you are ALLEVIATING the problem not PERPETUATING it
the fact that you cannot LOGICALLY WRAP YOUR MIND AROUND THIS is DEPRESSING
>>2094402
Absolutely true. Those clear plastic totes work very well for snakes.
If you're really looking for the cheap option I'd still recommend a tarantula. Depending on the species and nature of the specimen, it will mostly stay outside.
The key is proper information and asking yourself what you really want.
>Do I want to be able to handle my pet?
>What species of T is easy for beginners and likes to stay in the open more than burrowing itself?
>How do I properly care for her? (Food, water, temperature, humidity, heat, vivarium decoration and layout)
>Who can take care of her if I'm gone?
>Do people in my house agree to have a tarantula in the house (I know from experience it's not always easy to handle this subject)
>>2094550
>BY BUYING THE UNWANTED BYB DOG YOU ENCOURAGE THE BYB TO CONTINUE BREEDING, IDIOT
Buy adopting a dog from a shelter, you encourage people to continue throwing out their animals with the trash to the point that thousands are murdered every day. What's the difference?
Shelters have a job. And so do breeders. They don't cater to the same people. There is no competition for business. Stop being a fucking hippy.
>>2094761
your telling me all shelter dogs don't magically appear, and are actually dumped by owners that want someone else to take care of them? my mind is blown.
its true people would be much more careful with their animals if shelters didn't exist. the word 'shelter' itself is telling them 'dump your animals here and they will be safe'. what if there was no third option for keep/kill/shelter. think about it.
>>2094581
>Who can take care of her if I'm gone?
The biggest benefit of tarantulas is you can literally leave most species alone for 2-4 weeks and nothing will happen. Not slings, but adults of hardy genera. When my adult female B. boehmei or Aphonopelma species go off feed, I do pretty much nothing to care for them for weeks other than soak a corner with water periodically.
>>2094765
>its true people would be much more careful with their animals if shelters didn't exist
they would just leave them out by the side of the fucking road. you guys are insane.
they'd either kill them or just dump them off anywhere. you really think fucking shelters cause the problem..jesus, just honestly kill yourselves. people like you simply shouldn't exist. i hope your children die in car accidents.
>>2094790
>they would just leave them out by the side of the fucking road.
This may surprise you, but most people in the world are not like the ones you meat on 4chan. Most people would not have the heart to do that to an animal. Shocking, I know.
Go outside. Meet some real people. Ask them if they'd ever dump a dog on the side of the road. I'll wait.
>>2094957
>Most people would not have the heart to do that to an animal. Shocking, I know.
You clearly don't know a single thing about people, and are additionally from a rich family. You don't know a single fucking thing about people. your naivety frightens but doesn't surprise me.
>>2094957
Mate I think you need to go outside.
Fuck me, when was the last time you looked at the news?
>>2094957
oh geez. Anon, volunteer a single day at an animal shelter and come report back your opinion on the essential goodness of people. Your worldview is very naive.
>>2094957
Are you retarded? SHITLOADS of people do that, even with shelters being an option.
>>2095006
yeah, dog shelter volunteer here, we can't just take every single dog, we have limitations, so people drive up and night and fucking THROW THEM OVER AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE.
EVERY. SINGLE. WEEK. MULTIPLE. TIMES. A. WEEK.
Yet this fucking retard doesn't think people would just throw away or kill their dogs when they got tired of them.
Rich person mindset- Sheltered, has no idea about other people, thinks things like shelters are "for poor people" and cause problems because his parents told him so.
>>2094958
>>2094992
>>2095006
>>2095008
>b-b-but ghetto trash
>b-b-but the news that sells drama for ratings and ignores everyday life
>b-b-but the animals in animal shelters
>b-b-but lots of bad people in the world
4 rebuttals that highlight the elements of life and society most prone to abuse animals and ignore the other 98% of pet owners that love their animal companions. way to prove his point flawlessly.
>>2095012
>we have limitations, so people drive up and night and fucking THROW THEM OVER AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE.
instead of killing them. this also backs up that guy's argument that people care enough not to take the easy way out and dump them on the roadside or shoot them.
while not every person would choose to give their dogs a 2nd chance in their home, most people wouldn't flat out kill them instead of keep them. you people don't give humanity enough credit.
>>2095017
>pretending to be another poster in support of your own perspective
you got fucking blown the fuck out and are now trying to damage control in the most pathetic way possible
>>2095012
>>2094958
Not rich at all. Lived 20 years in the Memphis city limits. The city that battles with Detroit every year for the highest rates of violent crime. I've seen some shit. But I'm also not retarded enough to think that everyone in the world is the same as the trash that populates Memphis (or 4chan, for that matter). I've lived in Nashville for 12 years now (south of Nashville, where there's more green land than asphalt), and I've never met a single person here that would do that to an animal. But please tell me more about how good pet owners are the minority.
You people are so jaded that you just want people to be bad. Like the thought is exciting to you. Sorry, guys, reality isn't as bad as the internet, news, and television want you to think. Most people are good at heart. Deal with it. Go be emo somewhere else.
>>2095020
What if that was me? Does that invalidate the argument? Because it sounds to me like you just don't want to try and refute it.
For the record, it's not. But I'll try to get us matching hats if it will help you sleep better.
>>2095017
>98% of pet owners that love their animal companions
Holy shit are you delusional or what. Where the fuck do you live?
You've never been to a third world country have you? Yes. A majority of rich people in rich countries with high intelligence look after their pets. That's 2% of the worlds population, not 98 you idiot.
>>2095023
>Sorry, guys, reality isn't as bad as the internet, news, and television want you to think. Most people are good at heart. Deal with it. Go be emo somewhere else.
Seriously?
Go spend 5 minutes at a shelter and tell me we're all being delusional. What the hell is wrong with you?
>>2095027
he's rich i can tell from his posts so only rich people exist in his world
of course your fuckin friends moms that make $200k a year pamper their shih tzus, fuckin shithead.
>>2095027
Oh, my fault, I wasn't aware that we we're transitioning to discussing 3rd world countries. Which is relevant, because they're loaded with animal shelters. Right?
Seriously? These are the debates you people bring?
>Sorry, guys, reality isn't as bad as the internet, news, and television want you to think.
Sadly, anon, reality is often much worse than that. Grow up.
>>2095030
Yeah, still waiting for someone to actually throw a debate out instead of some lame attack based on assumption. I'm going to bed. /an/ proves once again to be completely useless and delusional.
>>2095017
I agree most people wouldn't kill them, at least in the US. However an absolute fuckload of people sure as fuck would dump them somewhere.
>>2095026
You're trying too hard, and absolutely samefagging.
>>2095036
>hurr debate me i'm an atheist
there's no fucking debate, if you think people are "naturally good" you are brainwashed and incapable of forming your own ideas. Everything about the world shows us otherwise
fucking weird ass christians, people who say this type of shit are always the same ones to rape little boys
>>2095036
There's nothing to argue you little shit.
I've worked at a shelter, I live near a low socio economic area, people do not give a single fuck. I'm not being brainwashed by the media, I've fucking experienced it.
>>2095031
>3rd world countries don't count as "people"
Racist.
>>2095041
Not him, but what about the other thousands of poor people in your area who have pets and take care of them even if it's to a limited degree?
There's something like 70 million cats and 70 million dogs being kept as pets in the US. You telling me that a shelter is representative of a majority?
ASPCA says otherwise:
>Approximately 7.6 million companion animals enter animal shelters nationwide every year. Of those, approximately 3.9 million are dogs and 3.4 million are cats. Each year, approximately 2.7 million animals are euthanized (1.2 million dogs and 1.4 million cats).
Your experience is heavily swayed towards seeing the worst shit and doesn't represent anything but the sort who give their animals up to shelters.
>>2095040
And you just sound like a misanthropist jaded into believing we live in the worst of times with rampant degeneration, bestiality and murder at historically high rates when the statistics say otherwise. You've fallen for TV memes about how horrible everything is, when that shit they show is representative of practically nothing.
People get pets in a developed country like the US for companionship. A minority are underdeveloped shitheads who abuse their animals. Guarantee you that the vast majority of people use them as a child analog. If you're telling me that more people abuse animals than don't, you're jaded and brainwashed to the point of idiocy.
>>2095137
>not him
Kek.
>>2095137
>more people abuse animals than don't, you're jaded and brainwashed to the point of idiocy.
That is definitely true for a lot of other animals.
No way it isn't true for fish, and probably reptiles/rodents/birds too.
>>2095144
Only one (You) there, m8.
>>2095145
I'll agree that it's easier to neglect non-mammals and see them as disposable.
