Rat general thread, last one was archived.
Post pictures, ask for advice and help your fellow anons. We're all one big mischief here.
Here's a bump
Jewish rats get gassed
What could cause repeated respiratory infections? Any vitamin deficiencies? My rats keep getting ill. They're on a homemade diet and now I'm worried that's why.
>>2039700
More info, anon. What are your rats symptoms? What kind of bedding are they on? Have they been medicated?
URIs (upper respiratory infections) in rats is an issue that isn't going to just go away on its own. In fact, once a rat has one, that's it. They might be able to live a few more years as long as they are treated, but once they have it you can pretty much expect them to die from it. Give us more info on your rats' living conditions and symptoms, but at this point it's pretty much certain they'll need to go to the vet.
>>2038290
It's amazing how we managed to turn the filthiest vermin into the comfiest pet.
>>2039701
Three rats, all female, one is 3 and the others are 2. They've been on two courses of antibiotics. The symptoms always return though. Tomorrow I'm calling the vet.
They're sneezing and wheezing a lot. Still drinking water thank god.
They live in a pretty big wire cage, are on aspen bedding and have been for at least a year. I feed them various grains, nuts, fruit and veggies, sometimes meat. Basically whatever I'm eating. Occasionally they get dog biscuits.
>>2039752
I am not 100%, but I don't think diet would affect respiratory issues at all. I agree with feeding rats a varied diet, lots of fruits and veggies, but I always suggest people have them on a staple, high quality block as well. I know that is an arguable stance, though. I have Harlan Teklad for my boys along with various other foods throughout the day.
As far as your girls go, sounds like it's a pretty standard case of URIs. That's the way the infections in rats work, they ALWAYS end up coming back. The most you can do for them is keep them on meds until they either die or get so bad that you decide to put them down. With the 3 year old especially I would make sure she is still active and wants to eat treats and play, otherwise it may be time to let her go. Our boys have been on baytril and oxytetracyline twice daily for maybe a year now. One did okay on it for a while and then got so bad we put him down and the other two did great on it up until a few weeks ago. They've started to go downhill, so we'll see what happens.
>>2039752
Try paper shavings, I hear rodents shouldn't have wood shavings as bedding because it can cause respiratory issues.
This link says aspen is safe, but it also gives other options for bedding. Couldn't hurt to try a switch right?
http://ratguide.com/care/environment/cage_bedding_litter.php
>>2039803
Other wood chips (cedar, pine) have toxins in them. I have heard people say that although aspen has no toxins, the dust can irritate rats' breathing. I haven't really noticed any differences with me rats, but this anon is right, if you want to give it a try it can't hurt.
Paper bedding is just so damn expensive. A giant thing of aspen is like $7 at Tractor Supply.
>>2038290
i wanna get 2 males
ive had some about 3 years ago then they passed
but also
i was very allergic to them
how to fix this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMaN3HCvi0o
is this cute?
>>2039766
I'm going to pick up their antibiotics today. Thankfully it's only $8 so even if they have to stay on them for the rest of their lives, I'll be able to do it.
Which Harlan Teklad food should I order? Looks like they have a few different formulas.
My dog is trying to sleep and my rats keep grooming her. This is hilarious. I'm so glad they get along.
I could be a dick and post a pic of my snake eating an already dead rat, but i wont.
>>2039700
They're just poorly bred rats, anon. There's not a whole lot that you can do about it.
The antibiotic treatment and willingness to care for them to the highest standard is the best they could ask for, and you're a cool guy for doing it. A+ rat owner.
>>2041904
Good job, anon! You're officially a socially functioning adult. A+ reptile owner.
I really want to get back into showing this year, maybe stud Eggs Benedict out now that he's proven his health.
Not keen on full-time breeding again, though I still really the experience of eepers again. Might see if I can get a female to board here.
>Pic related. My favourite little guys Eggy Ben and Gizmo.
>>2041959
They're so ugly they're cute.
>>2038290
What is some easy shit to teach rats? I already taught mine to spin, I don't know what else is simple enough for me to do without fucking up.
My old man finally got his staples removed from his leg amputation. He's so much happier now. I guess that his leg must've been causing him a lot of pain. It's cute to see him try to scratch himself with his stump though. Poor guy.
>>2042079
They started their third course of Sulfa-Trimethoprim yesterday. I'm following instructions exactly. I change their aspen bedding like once a week.
>>2042334
>Sulfa-Trimethoprim
Hmm... that's a combo drug, usually it's used if they're not sure what the infection is. I'd see if your vet will give you somthing better for URI? It's probably myco. And yeah, it's probably bad breeding. I'd still try a different drug though.
http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php
>>2042351
The actual diagnosis was pneumonia, if that matters. It's an exotics vet but I suppose he might not know a lot about rats.
>>2042357
I'm feel bad for doubting your vet, but pneumonia is usually a secondary infection. Myco is very similar and has similar symptoms. You could switch to something that treats both, baytril in combonation with doxycycline or Clavamox. Try suggesting it to the vet.
>>2042360
Damn. I'll have to call the vet then. Thank you for the information.
Is there any animal that is like a rat but isn't as short lived?
>>2042770
Beardie desu desu
>>2042775
Reptiles are my dream animals since I was 3 or something, but I can't keep them because I am living with my parents still and they don't want any insects/feeding mice in the house. So a mammal would be my only choice then.
>>2042775
A bearded dragon is nothing like a rat on pretty much any level.
![chin-11[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RuFRh4B.jpg "chin-11[1].jpg")
>>2042770
Chinchillas live about 15 years.
They aren't as smart or calm as rats though.
>>2042770
Ferrets are smart and easily trained. Can't really be kept along side rats as ferrets are much more carnivorous.
Even though my rats'a inevitable deaths are still a far way away, what home methods of euthanasia are most humane?
I was planning on giving them a large doses of quetiapine (a sedative) and putting them in the freezer when they were asleep. But Google tells me that that's a really bad way to go. Although I don't know if being knocked out might change that.
I feel kinda shitty asking about how to eventually kill my pets but advice appreciated.
>>2042845
never freeze any living animal. homemade gas chamber. alternatively, just let them go naturally?
>>2042850
I'm just preparing for the worst possible outcome where leaving them is worse.
>>2042845
As hands on and grisly as it is snapping the neck is the best way. Just don't back out halfway or it'll be painful and horrible and you'll have a bad time.
>>2042779
>He will never know the joys of a sleeping lizard in his sweater
Shaking my head to be quite honest family
>>2042798
I own two chinchillas and they are jumpy, but not skiddish once they get used to you. When they get really happy they run and jump all over their cage, but they are nowhere near as lax to take care of as a rat
>>2042913
I keep a shitload of reptiles. I wasn't saying they're shit pets, just that they don't act like a rat on any level.
Is there anyway to get a Gambanian pouched in the US from breeders? i know the whole import thing and invasive species in Florida. but what about breeders
>>2042845
Get a professional to do it. Ring your local vets, a lot of them will carry out home euthanasia. One of my girls may need to be put down soon, but she gets so scared at the vets it would be horrible to have her put to sleep there. It costs more, but she'd be much more comfortable at home.
Don't try it yourself anon; you're not an expert and will likely cause a lot of suffering (I speak from experience here, had a terrible experience trying to euthanise a sick fish).
I think one of my rats might have head tilt. I can't tell if she has though, or if I'm imagining things. She's running and playing happily, still eating fine, but I can't shake the notion that she's leaning to one side slightly.
What other symptoms should I look out for, in case it is head tilt?
>>2039700
My personal hypothesis is that LOTS of respiratory issues for rodent pets are due to bedding.
Carefresh, aspen shavings, etc. are often VERY dusty. And rodent pets have their faces in them all the time.
To my knowledge there's no evidence proving that beddings like aspen, carefresh etc. are actually safe. Dust is bad, even if it doesn't also come with phenols like in pine or cedar
>>2043732
I've euthanized several pets using the co2 method, and clove oil for fishes :( it works, fast and haven't made any mistakes.
>>2043735
Head tilt is a symptom, not an illness. Is she albino?
>>2043757
>In a study by Burn et al 2006, aspen chips, although inert compared with pine and other woods were associated with higher sneezing rates, worse interstitial pneumonia and higher weight gain in rats than a compressed paper bedding.
I use aspen, woops. I was already planning on switching after this bag though. Most lab care guides don't state what bedding is recommended, but it looks like it's usually either corn cob or paper based.
>>2043774
I personally use hay. The lowest dust hay I can find. I've had decent results with Kaytee timothy hay. If you have a large cage to fill, it might be more cost effective to buy from a farm supply store (I don't know anything about that--I just figure it would be cheaper. DYODD).
Timothy hay isn't absorbent, but it's easy for me to find it without a lot of dust, and I clean the cage enough that its lack of absorbency doesn't become an issue.
Chopping the hay into short (5" or so) pieces helps it behave more like regular bedding (as far as springiness, texture etc go).
>>2043811
the downside with hay would be mold. I live in the very damp PNW so I'm avoiding hay or corn cob.
I plan on switching to fabric as bedding as soon as I'm through the huge back of aspen chips I have. Fabric is easy, just shake it out and wash. No dust and I make my own laundry soap so I'm not worried about the harsh fragrances bugging their lil noses.
>>2038290
Why do my rats smell like shit all the time?
>>2043855
Literal shit? Or just bad?
>>2043880
More like piss, actually. I have a martins cage and I cover the wire with felt. Even after I clean it out it smells like shit. it's awful.
>>2043905
Galvanized metal or powder coated? Galvanized metal is gonna hold the smell of piss a lot more. Use vinegar/ pet piss cleaner to neutralize the ammonia.
>>2043774
>Head tilt is a symptom, not an illness. Is she albino?
Yes, she is.
Although she's healthy and active she's a bit scrawny and, well, a bit peculiar. So I'm worried she may have some funny genetics going on. She an absolute darling though, I don't want her to get seriously ill :(
How dusty are those compressed newspaper pellets? I need a bedding with very low dust for my ladies, they have respiratory issues. :v
>>2043925
Powder coated. I'll spray it off and use vinegar. What can I do to make it smell less generally outside of spraying it off all the time? The cage is fucking huge and it's a bitch to haul it outside.
I'm considering mice, but rats seem to be a much easier, and simpler alternative as far as getting cages for them.
Are they as acrobatic as mice? As in will they climb and explore as readily and as curiously as mice do? I was just going to hit a crafts store, pick up lots of non-toxic materials and build stuff for them. But finding an appropriate mouse enclosure is becoming difficult. I want to go with a terrarium, but there's the issue with ventilation.
Update from the guy whose entire mischief is sick with URI/pneumonia.
They've been on antibiotics for a few days and are still sneezing. Is that normal? How long does it usually take to kick in? I can call the vet and ask him to try a different antibiotic.
I also switched their bedding from aspen to Yesterday's News. I'm very pleased at the texture, it's pleasant and there is a lot less dust than the aspen shavings.
I was about to move on a pair of rat brothers about two years ago, but I ended up adopting a kitten instead. Said kitten was eaten by an owl a few months ago and I've been debating either a ferret or rats. I live in a good sized RV btw. I lovr cats, but the last one shed too much in my trailer. Any suggestions?
>>2044583
The sudden bedding change may be a bit of a shock for them, so they may take a little while longer to recover.
It's not like you can ease them into it because you'd have to transition from Aspen to the paper-based bedding over time, and Aspen is causing problems.
It's a shitshow, but man. Good luck with your little buddies, man.
I didn't personally have mice, so maybe I'm wrong, but I think rats ar far more interactive than mice. They really bond with you and are happy to be around you. rats are also curious, just make sure you move around things in their cage every now and then, to keep things new. As you already worry yourself, terrariums are not a good idea because of insulation. Also putting things in there will be harder. Rats love hammocks, but they need something to hang from, and wire cages are very suitable for that. Just make sure you don't have wire bottoms/platform, as those are bad for their feet.
>>2044539
There's a reason a group of rats is called a mischief. Rats are curious, playful and love to investigate everything. Females are a lot more active then males, and when you take them out to play they'll love bounding around and climbing over you. Males are still playful, but are happy to sit on your lap and snuggle. My girls only do that when they're ready for a nap.
It also depends on their personalities. One of my rats has the magical ability to teleport to places that should be impossible to reach when my back is turned, the others don't even bother.
>>2039710
he looks exactly like my rat
I recently introduced Manus to Soulja Boy and now he won't eat or sleep unless he hears Report Card a minimum of 6 times a day. Does anyone else have this problem?
>>2045653
Sorry you're gonna have to put him down
My rats love to groom my dog's face and paws. It's so cute.
Do your rats get along with your dog?
Rate our behbehs, /an/! Kush & Bagel
Meet Kush
(Dont worry they love being held and tickled in their cute tiny bellies)
And this is Bagel!
Cutest rattie
I challenge you to show me a cuter rattie
Goddamit, give me some advice.
One of my rats is very old (2 years 6 months), and can't really climb anymore. She'll climb to the top of the cage, try and twist round to get into the hammock, but slip and fall all the way to the bottom. I've put ledges and tubes up so she can just walk straight to the hammock, but she still insists on trying to climb, despite the fact every time she falls down. I'm having to leap up and grab her whenever I hear her climbing.
Any suggestions to get her to use the ramps provided instead of climbing? She's really going to hurt herself at some point.
>>2046117
Make her follow with a treat so she can get used to the trail
Block the spots she uses for climbing with something ?
Add more levels?
A ladder type thing to help her climb in the path she uses?
Other than that...
Bionic legs?
>>2046122
She knows which route to take, she's lived in that cage all her life, she just can't get it into her head that she can't climb as much anymore. I even installed some more ledges so that when she does climb she can use them to make it easier, but nope. She insists on going up the hardest way possible.
She's going to badly hurt herself and I can't get her to stop ;_;
>>2044393
lots of enzymatic cleaners, vinegar being the easiest but there's plenty of others that might work better. hit the walls and carpets with it too. the kind of bedding you use could be part of it.
you can also try getting an aromatherapy humidifier.. the humidity is good for their lungs and it smells great. just be careful you don't use oils that are gonna aggravate their lungs.
>>2044583
antibiotics take a while to work, so yes it's normal.
>>2046117
how many rats do you have? if it wouldn't be too crowded the only thing you can do is close off the top half of the cage with chicken wire or something. they won't like it, but at least she can't hurt herself.
>>2042845
Don't be a coward anon. The only way to properly kill your rats is by snapping their neck or cutting their head clean off, which is hard to do to your own pet, so you will probably need someone to do it for you. Or you take it to the vet. Sedating, gassing and freezing can easily go wrong and your pet's last moments will be filled with panic.
>>2044129
Head tilt can mean many things. Could be an ear infection, but could also be a pituitary tumor - which is deadly. I would take her to the vet to get it checked out.
>>2044147
You can just use regular ripped up newspaper as bedding, just make sure the ink isn't toxic, which is super rare nowadays.
>>2044539
Rats are naturally very curious. Some are master jumpers and climbers, better than mice in my experience. Which is why they are so annoying pests if you get your house infested. If they really want to go somewhere, they'll eventually find a way.
>>2044936
>>2046303
Thanks guys. I'm still partial to mice at the moment, due to size constraints, and other difficulties. I have the space for a 50 gallon terrarium, but I can't let rats out to play since the only place for them is in my workshop. Too much audio/video and electronics equipment around. Mice can go play in the tub while I clean their cage, and I can get around ventilation issues with some 120mm computer fans.
But then I see posts like this
>>2046108
>>2046109
>>2045937
And I know you ratty guys know what's up. If I ever have a place where I've got a room I can dedicate just to them, and escape proof it, I'll get into some proper rodent pals.
Rats are great pets, just to bad they don't live all that long.
>>2046334
Scientists have found a way to increase a mouse's lifespan by 30% through non-invasive gene therapy. It's not at all unlikely that in a decade or so, we'll have rodents bred to live much longer than they do now.
>>2046334
That's a big part of why I'm interested in them. Having had a lizard who doesn't like interaction for over fifteen years has made shorter lived pets appealing.
>>2046329
You can play with them in the bathroom, on the table, on your bed, wherever. You can also do some creative things for their cage. Easier to do if you're handy. Dressers make great rat cages. Or just get one that's more tall than it is wide. But yeah, I've owned both mice and rats, and mice don't really interact with you at all. They're like fuzzy fish.
>>2046360
>They're like fuzzy fish.
That's kinda what I was looking for at the moment, really. I just want something to liven up my room, and some funny little critters to love.
When I do have the means, and the space, I'll get pets that can be allowed to play round.
>>2046448
Mice are kinda high maintenance for something like that then. Hermit crabs are pretty fucking cool and relatively low maintenance.
What do you do with a shy and scared rat?
I got two rats two month ago and one of them is really energetic, he love exploring the house and playing with me. On the other hand, the second rat is very shy and seem to be still very scared of me, he doesn't like going out of the cage, he never come out on his own, I always have to pick him up and he hate that.
I don't know if I should persit and try to have him enjoy the world or if I should just leave him alone. I don't want to be a shit owner.
I want to get a rat because they seem intelligent and chill as fuck, and I've heard nothing but good things from people who've owned rats.
How do I do it right? is there like an /an/-approved place to find all the basic info?
I've had cats before but never any rodents or caged animals
>>2046796
you can build trust very slowly with snacks and stuff or you can have him on your lap/hands for about 20-40 min daily. he will freak out a bit but soon realize it's not bad at all, specially if you give him treats (he might reject them at first, just do it everyday) and be nice in general
I've had 50+ rats in my life and I just don't have the patience for the first method anymore. I've seen some people talking shit about it but idk, it might not be for every rat, specially ones who have been abused and stuff but it always worked great with me, never got bit or anything
http://www.joinrats.com/EarnTrust/ForcedSocialization/
>>2046188
I cleaned the cage out with vinegar two days ago and it smells like shit again. I put in fresh bedding, accessories, and felt and washed literally everything off. I don't know what I'm fucking up, but this is getting annoying. Here's my cage, if it helps anyone figure out why the fuck my cage smells so bad.
>>2046951
I'll give you a basic list of important shit.
-Cage size and type. Only wire, and http://www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml to check if a cage is big enough. I would recommend Martins cages and those big grey critter nation ferret cages. Also, you will have to cover all wire levels with felt.
-Must be housed in pairs. Virtually no exceptions. A lone rat will be miserable and likely have behavioral issues.
-Food. The only acceptable commercially available food is Oxbow. It's pricey, about $4.00/lb. Diet should be supplemented with fresh fruits, veggies, and treats. There's also Harlan teklad and Mazuri, but you'll have to order these online.
-Must be let out regularly. I wouldn't go more than a few days without letting your rats out to play, especially if you don't have a big cage.
-Bedding. http://ratguide.com/care/environment/cage_bedding_litter.php
That's all I can think of right now. You should also be prepared to deal with sickness, specifically tumors, abscesses and mycoplasma. Most of this is easily googlable information, and most medication is easy to get. Also, rats do smell. Not a lot, as long as you clean their cage regularly, but especially towards the end of the week or around cleaning time you're gonna catch a few whiffs of piss. Also, keep in mind rats have very sensitive lungs. Don't use anything smelly on their cage or around them. Dusty stuff is also harmful.
>>2046664
I don't mind the maintenance.
I've considered other pets; like fish and reptiles. Mice came out on top because you can actually watch them do something.
>>2047239
They aren't all that high maintenance. Finding a good cage is hard, but not all that expensive. They need at least two cubic feet. I wouldn't recommend just one hamster cage or a tank. You can do what I'm going to do and connect two hamster cages together via tubes, though. You should also make sure the wheel you get is at least 7". Anything smaller hurts their spines. They need to be housed in pairs, but make sure they're female; males don't get along too well. Healthy food is hard to find, but you should give them fresh fruits and veggies to supplement whatever staple diet you choose.
They do smell like shit, but they're pretty cool and busy all the time. That's the reason I got them, and they've fulfilled their purpose. Unlike rats, they're busy all the time without you having to be involved.
Pic related, Jennifer, who is absolutely a bro. I scan my snake friend's feeder nice regularly for friendly ones, and she was this weeks survivor.
>>2047272
My plans are to go with a 50 gallon terrarium for 2-4 mice with ventilation.
I'm planning on using 120-140mm computer fans to circulate air. Their size allows them to move a significant amount of air without noise, and without creating gusts of air that would affect my little gals. Of course I'd still have to give it a very thorough cleaning every week, but I have a deep bath tub they can play in. I also have plenty of twigs, and leaves I can grab out of the yard to sterilize for them so they have some interesting things to play with during cleaning time.
Terrariums have many benefits that outweigh their negatives if you can overcome the ventilation issue. Prime among them being their impervious-ness to escape as well as to infiltration from wild mice! Many people forget that bars that would keep your buddies in, may not keep prospective suitors out! Wild house mice are smaller than their fancy brethren.
As far as a wheel is concerned, I'm going with a saucer. I do plan to build my own wheel-base, and craft my own home-made wheels for them as they age, because I adore these critters and I'm in for the long haul. I know a thing or two about woodwork, and crafts. I can build a rodent wheel from craft sticks, Elmer's Glue, a simple screw, nuts, and bolts.
As far as food, I'm going to initially buy them what the pet store I get them from uses, and transition from there. Same with the bedding. Mice are nervous by nature, and prone to shock. The last thing I want to do is provide them with any kind of sudden changes in environment.
And yes. That's why I'm going with them in favor of rats. I can't take them out to play with them, so I'll love them vicariously through craft projects made from non-toxic, safe wood crafts from Micheal's treated with water-based,non-toxic preservatives. Of course an over-sized enclosure. and some treats wont hurt!
Also; Jennifer's a pretty girl. She looks like a total sweetie.
>>2046951
Instead of buying a rat from a dealer, consider adopting a homeless rat (or two!) from your local animal shelter.
Petfinder.com may be able to point you in the right direction.
>>2047398
Don't go with the smallest size flying saucer. They do better with the medium size ones.
>>2047430
I have no plans on going with a small running platform what so ever.
I'm gonna be using a 50 gallon terrarium, so real estate is not an issue. They will not want for space in anything.
How often do rats pee/poop?
Say I litter trained them, would I be able to take them out to play for awhile without having to worry about messes on the carpet?
>>2047455
Yes you can litter train them and they usually learn very fast. They will normally begin pooping in one corner of the cage themselves. If they poop when they're out, remove the poop to the spot and put them in the cage. Soon they will learn: Poop outside = going back to the cage. So they will stop doing it very fast. Never had problems with rats pooping where they shouldn't after litter training. .
Males leave droplets of piss where they walk though. You can't train them not to do it in my experience. It's not smelly or more than a few drops, but they will do it on your hands and clothes on purpose to mark you. They never fully pee outside of the cage.
>>2047214
It's probably the fleece anon, it just sucks up pee and amplifies the smell. I had the bright idea of using flannel as bedding and my cage stank until I tossed it out. You'll either need to wash/replace it weekly or get a cage with solid shelves.
Also, if that's a Divergent book on your shelf, you have fucking shit taste in literature. Good taste in pets though.
>>2047478
I've owned, bred, and rescued rats for years. And I was devoted to keeping my place smelling as nice as possible. Whoever decided fleece is a good bedding for rats is crazy. Even litter box trained rats will pee/mark everywhere, even the females. The fleece will reek within one day. Best things I've used (sometimes mixed), are carefresh ultra, yesterday's news, and blue buffalo's new walnut cat litter is amazing.
>>2047482
>>2047478
I bought it when I was like twelve, cut me some slack anon.
Anyway, what can I do to mitigate the smell? Somebody suggested puppy pads but I don't think that'll be good for them. Are towels any better? I was thinking about cutting up some old towels and putting them underneath. I really don't want to get a new cage, this ones not even a year old and cost nearly three hundred dollars.
>>2047541
Switch bedding. Aspen isn't the best bedding, it also irritates their noses. If you're in the US I'd get http://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/so-phresh-odor-control-paper-pellet-cat-litter
plastic is porous and fabric can get kind of nasty, make sure you're washing that.
>>2047214
Why not try putting a few handfuls of hay in there? Timothy hay works well, but you could also use alfalfa (alfalfa isn't a true grass hay like Timothy--it's the stalks of a plant in the legume family. But it works just as well for rats).
It does a good job covering up the smell of animal waste. And they might even eat it, although I don't think a rat could actually get nutrition from it. Hay is more food for rabbits or guinea pigs. For a rat it's a good nesting material and it'll cover the smell.
What are you feeding them btw? Are you feeding them food with a lot of fish or meat?
>>2047657
>>2047657
Not that I know of. I'm giving them oxbow adult, but I do give them dried mealworms as treats occasionally. I don't really want to cover up the smell with more smell, though. I have a sensitive nose and I'm kind of a baby. I'm allergic to hay, too. I'll try it, but I'm unsure it its worth constant itchy sneezing. Also, as far as I know, rats cannot digest alfalfa and it's not safe for them to eat.
They hardly spend any time at the bottom of their cage, so I don't think it's really that much of an issue. What's the cheapest safer bedding available? I have a lot of cages and I do not want to have to go back to buying two giant bags of carefresh every month.
Is there any other material I can cover the wire shelves with?
>>2047669
Rats probably can't digest alfalfa well, but I don't think there's evidence that it's at all harmful to them if they eat it. I think it just provides them with some fiber. Kind of like how humans can't digest oat grass (as opposed to the oat grains), but it wouldn't do anything bad to you if you ate it.
A lot of people recommend compressed alfalfa pellets (the kind used to feed rabbits) as litter on the cage's bottom, with regular alfalfa as nesting material. But if you're allergic to alfalfa it wouldn't work, obviously.
>>2047669
Btw, do they urinate on the cage bars?
I didn't read this whole thread so sorry if this has been answered. But are the cage bars powder-coated?
If the bars aren't coated and the rats urinate on them, the metal will absorb the smell of the urine. This will be a constant struggle.
>>2047669
Check out the link I gave earlier. It's cheap, very low dust and the baking soda will help with the smell. As far as covering the shelves, I'd switch from synthetic fibers.
>>2047674
I had a bag of some kinda rodent feed with alfalfa pellets and mixed it in with their food. They didn't touch the alfalfa at all and they'll eat anything else. I just dump what they don't eat into the bedding. But yeah, I think most rats won't touch it, maybe if they're starving.
Alright so I stopped in at Petco, and something irked me about their mice and rats. I'm not sure what, or even if it was even a big deal. Like usual, all but one or two of them is inactive in each tank. But I saw something I didn't see at PetSmart and that was both the active mice, and rats did this thing with their heads. They would shake their heads at random. They would do something. Maybe move some bedding around, or peer up at me from behind the glass. Get on a wheel, or get some water. And at random intervals their heads would shake.
Also; the rats were sexually segregated, but the mice were not. They were listed as "male mice" in both tanks, but although they were all the same size, some had obvious male sex under their tails, while others didn't. There were a lot of mice, as well.
They were half the cost of PetSmart's, but they didn't look as healthy, or as well taken care of. I dunno, maybe I'm just imagining things, and someone more experienced on the subject can enlighten me.
>>2047831
Were they albinos?
IIRC, albino rodents sometimes make weird head movements to try to focus, because they can't see as well.
I don't remember where I read this, so take it with a grain of salt.
If the mice were housed in a mixed-sex tank and going for cheap, could it be that they were being sold as "feeders"? Unfortunately feeder animals usually aren't well cared-for before they're sold as snake food.
>>2047872
Nope. A scruffy brown mouse. The rat was a black and white spotted.
They did have quite a few albinos in both tanks.
They all got along well. Two male albino rats were grooming each other and being cuddly in a corner off by themselves.
The mice were all in little cliques, bundled up in one spot, or another. But there were far more mice than they had little 'huts' for them, so there were cuddle piles out in the open, which I imagine must be terrible for them.
>>2047831
The mice and rats you can buy in most pet stores are mainly bred as snake food, so a lot of them are often a little ill and haven't been treated that well. There are exceptions of course, but most stores don't care whether their feeder rodents are healthy or very comfortable. They're not made for living long.
>>2047892
Petsmart's mice and rats looked happy enough, and healthy. They have a female-only policy which I think helps. And they're not cheap. $7.99 for a fancy mouse vs $3.99 for Petco's overcrowded grabbag mess is a huge difference.
Petsmart had some rather -large- dumbos as well.
I did find a rattery in my state. It's sad that I may not get my mice, but some well-bred rats are a definite alternative for some cute rodent friends.
>>2047945
>I did find a rattery in my state
That's nice. A breeder is your safest bet on getting a rat that doesn't have any health or behavioral issues. The one I used to go to has closed down sadly... Though two of my current boys are feeders, and they're as great as any expensive breeder rat I've had. I'm sure it all depends on how well they're treated in the store. The group of rats I picked them out from had some individuals suffering from obvious progressed respiratory disease though.
If they're more expensive and the store also has dumbos, they were bred for pet purposes, which I would feel fairly safe to buy.
>>2038290
Ive got the best rat in this thread
>>2047541
I wasn't reading the whole thread. Why can't you just buy bedding/litter I listed here: >2047482?
I've tried puppy pads (rats will just tear them up and use as nesting material), newspaper (same). Every fabric I've used like fleece, old clothes, and towels they just chew up, burrow in, and of course mark, which stinks the cage up real bad.
>>2047706
>>2047674
Yeah, rats can't digest hay. Which is funny because most brands of rat/mouse/hamster pellet mixes have little compressed hay bits in it. And if you use these pellet mixes you'll notice they will eat everything but the hay. So not sure why they're in there. They love chewing on huts/hides made of hay though, and chewing on straw. Won't hurt them.
>>2047966
Someone I've been discussing this with is currently dating a former Petsmart employee, and she's told me that they do have very good policies involving their rodents.
One thing I did notice that was a very big difference between Petco and Petsmart was that there was never more rodents in the tank than they had places to hide in. If a rodent was curled up in a corner, it was likely because she was a shit the others didn't like, or wanted to be alone. Not because there's so fucking many of them in the tank that they needed to pile in a corner because they're no more space left in the little plastic huts they give them. Honestly that just disgusted me to see that. There's no way those mice weren't utterly miserable like that.
>>2047983
Mine never burrow or nest at all, really. I've given them newspaper, paper towels, hay, and fleece scraps, but so far they've really only taken the fluffy stuffing stuff out of their bed. But if they won't chew up puppy pads, are they safe? I can't find any that aren't scented.
I didn't want to use that pellet stuff because it's scented, and again, as far as I know scented shit fucks with their lungs. "fresh clean scent" can't be any better than shaving smell. I'll look into non-scented paper based.
>>2048059
why puppy pads? and the pellets I listed aren't scented- they just contain baking soda.
>>2047831
Not sure if this applies to the US, but in the UK all pet shops need a license to sell animals. If they're in breech of their license due to bad animal care, it can be revoked. They have regular inspections. If you think a pet shop is not keeping their animals well, report them to the local government, who will investigate.
I reported a pet shop recently and the council investigated, and got back to me about their findings. If you think the animals are suffering please do this anon!
My ratties just got tumors out of nowhere. I play with them daily and handle them a lot (pick them up, play fight etc..) but never noticed something strange.
Then yesterday, out of the blue, they both had a tumor (one on her top right mamary, the other one on the bottom of her belly). Can't afford surgery for them both as it would be >200€ per rat.
I feel like dying today. They're the only living being that have given me happiness for the last 1.5 year and soon they will be gone. Jesus I'm heartbroken.
What are some good ways to bond with your rats? I have two young energetic boys, and when they have time outside of their cage they usually just run around exploring and wrestling. They like to climb on my shoulders and will take treats from me, but they don't really do a whole lot of interacting with me.
My ratty has a huge tumor and I can't afford to get it removed/don't have a way to get to a vet. It's been growing for months and my rat has still been acting the same (still very energetic, eats/drinks/sleeps normally) so I haven't been very worried up until the last month. It's so big he has to walk with one arm, groom with one arm (I don't think he can even groom everywhere anymore), eat with one hand.... It's killing me and if it gets any bigger he probably won't be able to do anything.
Is it too big to even find a vet willing to remove it at this point? He is around 1 year old, so old age isn't a risk. I'm gonna try my hardest to come up with the money soon, I really don't want him to suffer :( how much would this cost me?
One of my gerbils died recently.
RIP Eva :(
>>2048148
Looks more like a lymph node problem. There is a kind of naked rat that developed these same problems
>>2048151
What can I do about it?
>>2048140
In my experience they rarely want to sit still with you when they're young. They're just too curious. As they get older they start loving the cuddling. You can try sitting with them in a chair or on a sofa where they can't run away from you, put them in your shirt, tickle them, play catch with your hands, stuff like that. Some love being scratched under the chin and behind the ears and will start grooming you in return.
>>2048148
Cost depends on the vet, but in general, surgery and tumor removal is not cheap. Sorry anon :(
Small pets are sometimes a lot more expensive to get treatment for than dogs and cats, because the vet needs to be an expert in rodents and performing surgery with anesthesia on such a small animal is difficult.
>>2048097
It says it's scented on the bag.
Puppy pads are meant to soak up piss, so if they're safe they'd obviously work better than a few scraps of fabric no matter what it is.
>>2048150
So sorry to hear it. Gerbils are wonderful animals.
If you want to get another gerbil, might I recommend adopting one from a shelter? A lot of pet stores buy gerbils from rodent mills and it's not a very good industry...I recently saw some exposes on it.
>>2048104
Man, I wish we had something like the RSPCA in the US.
Unfortunately, I don't want to make any claims unless I can say without a doubt that what I saw was evidence of poor animal care. I'm not sure our local animal authorities would give much care about some overcrowded mouse tanks at Petco... but if they were overcrowded, and the headshaking I saw in the mice and the rats were an indication of something wrong with them... well that would be a different story all together.
>>2048108
That's the saddest thing about Muridae rodents. Rats tend to have it worse than mice from what I know. They're prone to tumors.
>>2048293
Is euthanasia at least cheap? If I notice that the tumor keeps getting bigger and he starts acting more lethargic, I would rather try doing that than let him waste away.
>>2048649
He's been eating with one hand for a while now but he doesn't seem to mind it.
>>2047945
Yeah, my petsmart had a trio of female rats I petted today, they were in the same display area as the bazillion hamsters, so they were definitely pet material, not feeders. They wanted 13 dollars for one rat, and they all seemed healthy and very friendly. If I liked the tan hooded pattern more, I would have been quite tempted to buy them.
I have two dumbo mice and I think I just killed one of them by holding my finger on it's throat. It's now limp and reactionless. The reason I was holding my finger on it's throat was to try and remove it's need for dominating the other as it was starting to bully the other mouse (chasing it around the cage) by inserting stress whenever it started to attempt to dominate the other mouse.
I feel pretty damn bad. I didn't want to hurt it, let alone kill the damn little mouse.
I'm hoping that I merely made it pass out, seeing as I immediately let go of it's throat as soon as it fell limp and it did give a small spasm when I let it down.
Still feel bad. Here's to you Algernon Two, you fucking sperg mean mouse.
>>2048815
An odd thing is that right as the mouse gave his little spasm, the other mouse came up the tube to the 2nd floor where the mouse that spasmed lay and started checking him out, as if he sensed it.
>>2048815
Holy shit, dude. You separate them if you want them to chill out. The loss of contact hurts them more than anything else. Put them both in the same cage with the bullied mice in a smaller cage. They're still 'together' but they can't hurt each other. Or keep them in completely separate confinement.
Nice job, though, you stupid fuck. Holding your finger to the throat of a tiny, fragile creature because he was misbehaving. Of all the fucking solutions to this problem, you thought you could use dog training on them. Cruel dog training at that.
>>2048818
Of course 'he' did.
How 'bullied' was he? Was there any blood? Mice can, and will get into little 'spats' from time to time. If there's no blood, or injury, then it's "No harm, no foul."
In fact, let's get this out of the way. What are the sexes of your mice?
>>2048819
You act as if they aren't my mice. I own them. They are wild animals and either act how I want them to or they will succumb to my will. I am not training them. The life of a mouse who feels the need to completely make the other one miserable while having all of it's necessities met is nothing you should shame over, although it does hurt my heart and I feel guilty for killing an ignorant animal.
I'm not trying to be humane nor do I want to be. I want to give them a nice life and see how they react to experiences. In some way, he fulfilled his role.
>>2048823
Yeah, you're totally not a psychopath.
>>2048823
>I'm not trying to be humane nor do I want to be. I want to give them a nice life
Pick one you twat.
>>2048821
There never was blood. It was two males (that is something that shouldn't have happened and honestly was my fault and was caused by a lack of knowledge.)
It's just been a problem that's been going on for months and it was getting to where the one would chase the other one around for 10+ seconds and I got tired of it being so trash to the other mouse. I had tried keeping them spaced apart in the same cage like the other anon told me to do and it just results in literally the mouse freaking out and trying to escape for hours.
>>2048829
There you go. Two males is the reason why this happened. Male mice cannot be kept together unless one, or both are neutered. Even then it's touch-and-go.
There was no blood, but eventually they would have tried to kill each other. Male mice are viciously territorial. One will come out on top, and slay the other. And probably eat the body afterwards.
I hope that by insulting you, and shaming you that you feel the 'stress' necessary to associate your behavior with being 'bad' and not repeat it in the future.
How does that feel?
>>2048831
It doesn't feel like anything because I have cognitive thought. I already felt bad for taking a life. That alone would cause me not to do it again.
>>2048825
I feel righteous fury when a creature wants to harm another even when all of it's necessities are met and spares are given. Call it a God complex and you'd be right.
>>2048833
>It doesn't feel like anything because I have cognitive thought.
Apparently not enough cognitive thought to prevent you from mistreating them in the first place, or not doing research before throwing some mice together in a cage.
Your first response to misbehavior was violence. I'd ask you to think about that, but I doubt you fucking can. Nice job, asshole. I bet you'll make a fantastic pitbull owner. Much kills. Many wins.
>>2048835
I'll call it a faggot complex, faggot.
>>2048823
>You act as if they aren't my mice.
You're both the same, living beings.
Until the big retarded being decided to go full retard on some other being because he thought his life is worth more.
Man you guys get mad when someone kills a worthless animal. I bet you get real mad at all those worthful human lives we all live day to day, as if you could comprehend the meaning of life any more than I can. You're the only thing that gives it value.
I know I made error. You are just cementing your own personal feelings.
>>2048838
But remember, Anon. He's "God" and he provides them with a "nice life."
They're just "wild animals" after all. They will act in accordance to his will, or be smote by his hand.
Future serial killer right here in this thread. I'm guessing he'll be the 'strangler' type.
Men, or women, though... we should have a running bet on which he decides to prey upon.
>>2048840
Pic related.
>>2048841
>jokes about killing
>chastises it in the same post
You are just cementing your own personal feelings.
>>2048843
Joking is one thing. Rationalizing your fatal animal abuse by calling it a god complex, and saying they're just 'worthless animals' is another.
I hope you're trolling, and I hope that since this is such a slow-moving board, that a mod comes by and gives you the ban you so rightfully deserve.
Last post before I go, because giving you guys something decetly interesting to talk about (as if that's ever happened on /an/) clearly wasn't a productive idea, I bet if I didn't post with so much of those big bad words, you wouldn't nearly be half as hostile as you are. Consider why that would be
rip algernon two I killed you I'm sorry
>>2048845
You know you're not even coming across as intelligent right?
You're just spouting nonsensical shit onto the keyboard and imagining yourself to be this enlightened philosopher.
Fuck off.
>>2048847
Criminal?
>>2048848
Australians are criminals stereotype. It was low hanging fruit desu
>>2038290
This is Mordekaiser, he's gone now but he was fun as fuck.
I rescued him with his brother and put them in with two spayed girls. They all past a few months ago.
I've not had rats for almost 3 months now and i'm really excited because tomorrow I'm fostering 3 new girls and the adventure begins again.
I currently keep and breed mice fory snakes but I want a pet rat, how different is their care?
>>2049132
Much different, friend! Your rats will hate tiny plastic bin confinement in aspen bedding filled with their own poop. So give them a big cage, with appropriately spaced bars so they can have lots of ventilation, and clean it often! You may find that your ratties may not enjoy a steady diet of dog food, so you should buy them food suited to their species! Maybe Oxbow? Since you may not want to breed your rats, it would probably be best not to put them in a ratio of 1 male to 1-2 females. 2 males, or 2 females is better, though the latter is best for your first time loving your critters!
I hope this helps, and that you can love your pets "fory" long time!
>>2049061
Out of curiosity, how long did they live and what did they die from?
>>2049132
You want pet rats. They are social animals that need the company of their own species to do well. Same gender pairs or groups is best since you don't want a bunch of babies, either males or females can get along.
>>2049281
It amazes me that male rats can get along while male mice will murder the shit out of each other, then eat the corpse(s) of the fallen. You could have two males one day, and come home from work one day to find one of them has completely disappeared.
>>2049061
>This is Mordekaiser
Did he stack AP and smear his rivals into a fine red paste across the battlefield with his Rabadon's Deathcap + Void Staff + the item that would stack all of your AP onto your next Mace of Spades?
I can't imagine what horrors Riot has done to Morde since I was big into him back in 2011.
Slapping a 3K+ HP Jax for half his health in one hit never felt more satisfying as Morde. Or dropping a Trynd at 60% HP before he can activate his ult. Those days are over.
When do you know when it's time to have your rat put to sleep?
One of my rescue rats developed a tumour when she was 2, and we decided not to operate as due to her age she was unlikely to survive surgery (plus her sister died shortly after their 2nd birthday, so we figured they were pet shop bought so didn't have long left anyway). We gave her turkey tail supplements daily though to manage the growth.
At 2 years 6 months though she's still trucking, but she looks just so old and tired. She rarely comes out to play, just sits quietly all the time, and although she can move about the tumour is making it difficult. She's still eating but is all skin and bones.
I was hoping she'd pass away naturally, but as she's still going she's starting to approach the point where her quality of life is declining. But how can I tell when the line is crossed? I don't want to put her down because she's old and tired, but I don't want her suffering to get too bad.
>>2047977
Please post more, he's adorable.
Bagel & Kush here, baby pic
I'm sure /rg/ wouldn't mind me splurging on these babies with a couple more photos
>>2050017
>>2050019
>>2050022
Last one, I promise
>>2049739
She's definitely suffering. I was in the same predicament once. I wanted to put my rat down a month prior because she was looking bad and I couldn't do it(she had a benign tumor that was growing large in size). I ended up doing it the following month. I regretted it since and she suffered for it.
Also, is she completely alone in her cage? If so, she is most definitely depressed on top of having that tumor.
Anyone know a good breeder or rescue within a couple hours of Nashville? Pretty much everything I've found online is inactive or too far.
>>2046117
Move the hammock?
>>2049287
Well rats in the wild live in massive family groups, so it makes sense they do well with each other in captivity.
>>2050026
No, when her sister died I adopted two younger rats to keep her company, and the change in her was amazing. They're now 9 months old and they're a bit too active for her. I think she's happy for the peace and quiet when they're out of the cage.
When they get fresh food in the morning I feed her separately, as one of the young ones is now huge and has made herself the alpha rat, so has got into the habit of stealing treats from her. She's eating fine when I feed her, but I still worry if she's getting enough to eat with how skinny she is.
>>2038290
such a short life span. I quit raising them
My old boys.
>>2050242
>>2050242
>HAND!
>Dude... your ass is on my head...
>BUT... HAND!!!
One of my rats is extremely old, and it looks like she's not eating solid food anymore. She won't even touch the rind on cucumbers, just eats the soft flesh in the middle. She's losing weight, so I'm worried she's not getting enough to eat. I'm currently giving her natural yoghurt, soft food like banana and some ground up cereal, but is there anything else I can give? Will pick up a pot of baby food later today.
>>2052541
Is she alone?
My older boy had healed up beautifully after he had his leg removed and then out of nowhere he gets cancer and it's necrotic and awful. He had breathing issues so there was no way he would survive going under anasthesia again. We had to put him down. I'm glad that the remaining old man is getting along with our spayed girls at least. Still hurts waking up in the morning and wanting to get his medicine ready for him and he's not there.
>>2052541
>She won't even touch the rind on cucumbers, just eats the soft flesh in the middle.
That in itself isn't abnormal. Most rodents prefer the flesh. The rind is mostly fiber and it's normally coated with wax.
Maybe you could try feeding her cooked pasta or rice.
>>2052549
No. I've seen the alpha rat steal food from her since she can't fight back, so I've started to feed her separately several times a day to ensure she gets a good amount of food. I've been mixing ground up cereal with their pellets so she has something to graze on too.
>>2052559
She's eaten the rind before, so her starting to leave it is a bit unusual. I'm planning on some cooked pasta, but is rice safe for them to eat? I'm always wary about giving rice to small animals due to how much it can expand. I don't want them choking or getting bloated.
>>2052831
The rice expansion meme is just that. A meme.
I've rescued some rats and they're getting better but they still have some issues. They won't bite down hard on your fingers anymore and they'll even groom them but if you accidentally get any part of your body near the cage bars they'll lunge and just bite the shit out of you. Is there any way to prevent this? I'd really rather not be afraid of getting a body part near my rats cage by accident.
>>2052984
Make sure you're not giving them treats through the bars.
Where can I buy one of these dumbo rats in michigan? i'm not driving 3 hours to get my daughter a fucking rat.
>>2053024
I'm not don't worry. Never done that.
>>2052831
Cooked rice doesn't expand all that much. It does most of its expansion during the cooking process.
>>2052831
Yeah don't worry about 'rice expanding' it's a myth. Rice does not expand more after consumption than most other foods small animals eat. Even uncooked it poses no danger to either birds or rats.
>>2053331
This. If anything uncooked rice will be chewed down by rats before consumption which gives the added bonus of wearing down teeth.
I want to adopt this whole adorable, amazing dumbo litter /an/, any experience raising 13 little angels? Cage wise, would two huge ones suffice? Food wise? Any tips at all? Seeing them curled up in a corner just felt like a punch to my stomach and if I can I fucking will take all of them in.
>>2053781
Money is NOT any issue, willing to spend up to and including $1000 a month for upkeep, any experience very appreciated.
>>2053781
Here's a cage calculator you can put your dimensions into and see how many rats it can hold:
http://www.rattycorner.com/odds/calc.shtml
Food-wise, lab blocks are best. Those weird grain mixes you see at the store aren't very good and to add to that, the rats will pick out only their favorite bits. You'll need to order lab blocks online probably, about the only acceptable food you'll see in a pet store is the Oxbow brand. Teklad and Mazuri are my preferred brands.
>>2052984
Don't suppose anyone has any tips for this? As I said I've never fed my rats through the bars.
>>2052984
> How to feed a timid rat
Take some yogurt, baby food or mashed up lab blocks wetted with some broth. Put it in a spoon. Hold the spoon around mid-way on the spoon and put the spoon in the cage. Wait for the rat to come eat. They WILL be shy at first but eventually come enjoy the tasty treat. Once the rat has eaten it's treat, feed the normal food.
Once the rat comes to your spoon quickly and isn't scared of it, move your hand down the spoon a little. Repeat every day until your hand is almost down to the spoon's bowl. Keep your hand there for a few days.
Lay the spoon with food in it on top of your flat hand. Let the rat eat from the spoon resting in your hand. Once the rat has adjusted, remove the spoon.
> Cautions
If the rat is stomping it's feet and chattering, remove the spoon! Try again later and keep your hand further back on the spoon. Also NEVER hold food between your fingers: flat hand only. Rats can't see very well, especially if they're older.
>>2053781
First, separate them by SEX. They are old enough that if not separated right away you probably are going to have way too many rats. Some might already be preggers.
Be prepared for the fact that you may have to kill some chirping babies. I know you don't want to do that (nobody does), but if your litter of angels is half female and each rat has a litter of ten, that's 70 new rats and that's 70 too many. Killing the babies is sadly easy: simply put them in a plastic box in the fridge and they'll get cold, fall asleep, and die swiftly.
From there socialize them adult rats with the spoon trick and NEVER let the males play with the females. PERIOD. It only takes "a second" for there to suddenly be another litter on the way.
>>2053781
I had 11 rats at one point, I enjoyed all their different personalities and the cuddle piles are very cute. I fed Mazuri rodent blocks, ordering a large bag online is pretty economical. I also supplemented with fresh foods. Health problems are the real money sink with that many rats, several (or more!) animals may need medicine or surgery all at once. Also their care will take more time. More animals equals more cleaning, and you will have to make sure everyone gets adequate time out of the cage. But if you have the time and the money I would recommend it, it's a lot of fun to watch them all interact. My final warning is that if they are all from the same litter they may end up dying one after the other, which can be tough.
>>2053980
>Be prepared for the fact that you may have to kill some chirping babies. I know you don't want to do that (nobody does), but if your litter of angels is half female and each rat has a litter of ten, that's 70 new rats and that's 70 too many. Killing the babies is sadly easy: simply put them in a plastic box in the fridge and they'll get cold, fall asleep, and die swiftly.
Horrible advice.
These animals are unwilling captives. Rats are intelligent and introspective, self-aware (whatever that means--it's a debatable concept) animals...they're basically people.
Freezing animals to death is NOT humane.
>Hypothermia is neither short nor painless. Some time ago on the rats list, Brian Lee detailed an experience in which he almost died from exposure. He went through it step by step for us so we could all understand how inhumane this method truly is. Yes, in the end, a person or animal who has died from exposure appears to have died peacefully, but the steps leading up to that death, as described by Brian, are horrendously painful.
http://www.rmca.org/Articles/euthanasia.htm
Apparently this anon has a lot of money and free time. I can't imagine why you'd advise him to kill healthy animals for the sake of convenience.
>>2053998
Btw, this is more of why more and more, I'm completely against pet-keeping.
Rats are for all intents and purposes a kind of person. Keeping them as pets is keeping them prisoner. Killing them is basically murder--if not in a legal sense, in a moral one.
>>2053998
>I can't imagine why you'd advise him to kill healthy animals for the sake of convenience.
Because owning 100 rats is too many for a brand new rat keeper (even with money) not to be overwhelmed. You can buy them stuff but caring for them all takes time and effort. They're so new they don't even know what they need. 100 rats would be a disaster. Rehoming 100 rats isn't going to be easy, either. The best answer is to kill unwanted accidental offspring then prevent any new ones.
If they want to pay a vet money to kill off the pinkies (which aren't even really ware of much of anything at that age) to be more "humane" they can, but popping them in the fridge sure beats other ways people have suggested like feeding them live to snakes and it's better than having the rats be in bad conditions due to an overburdened newbie owner.
>>2054000
>Rats are for all intents and purposes a kind of person
Name one purpose for which rats are people.
>>2054013
You know the phrase isn't literal, right?
>>2053998
>>2054000
Fuck off, Peta.
>>2053957
Thank you, I will use that. Much appreciated.
>>2053980
Obviously will seperate. But thank you for the input.
>>2053996
I already own two rats with my so, (see: Kush and Bagel) and have come to terms that, as short as their lifespan is to us, it is still a full life in their perspective and granting them companionship and love (plus a caring home and the munchies) and getting it back is more than I ask for. It obviously is painful to lose a friend, and a child of sorts, but their bruxing and grooming, their personality and playing, makes me know in my heart how meaningful that short time is.
Thank you anon for sharing your experience.
To all those debating the best way to murder a litter... That will not happen, your input is appreciated but death by freezing just strikes me as horrifying. If an accidental litter occurs before they are old enough for spaying/neuturing I will care for them and put them up for adoption if necessary.
As for my horrible blogposting, consider pic related as apology.
>>2054725
While it may sound horrible, rats and mice cull their litters all the time. It's better for them to die early before their brains develop enough to suffer, than to live only to suffer.
>>2054753
Seconding this. Culling litters is a natural process in rats. They can smell if something is "wrong" and will push away some of their young to let them get cold and die. Most litters of ten survivors started with a lot more than ten rats. Rat litters are huge.
Also want to chime in that, as cute as they are, rats aren't popular pets in the western world because people wrongly see them as "dirty", "Nasty-tempered" and "diseased". This makes finding good homes for young ones hard. Most pet shop rats end up as snake food or being carelessly bred in bad condition to create snake food.
Sometimes a short life ended before suffering is better than a long one with suffering.
>>2054826
Too bad you didn't write "GUNDAM" in sharpie on the side of that tube.
>>2054826
>Also want to chime in that, as cute as they are, rats aren't popular pets in the western world because people wrongly see them as "dirty", "Nasty-tempered" and "diseased". This makes finding good homes for young ones hard. Most pet shop rats end up as snake food or being carelessly bred in bad condition to create snake food.
I gotta second this. Of all the rodents, rats probably only beat out mice in popularity as pets due to their wild brethren being vermin. Finding willing adopters will be difficult. You may get a handful taken care of, but if one or more of your babies drops a full litter of inbred pups, it's going to be near impossible to get rid of them all.
Shelter or culling will be your only answer. Unless you plan on taking care of a horde of rats. In which case I suggest you learn the rat language, and become one of them. Then lead your ratty army to victory against your foes.
Can rats infected with rat bite fever be cured? I know someone with infected rats. They were in a group, separated and one group tested positive so they had to be euthanized but she kept quiet about the other group of three. She's afraid to handle them so she does jack shit with them but then again even if they weren't infected I still don't think she's give them more attention. I mentioned a vet and she said they would just euthanize them, so I told her she should just have them euthanized anyway. Even if they could be cured, I doubt she would even find a good home for them because she's one of those people who 'rescues' animals but is actually a hoarder.
I offered to get them euthanized at the vet for her if she pays for it because she doesn't have the heart to take them but she's being a huge bleeding heart faggot. I don't give a shit about her at all but I feel bad for the rats. But yeah is there anyway it can be cured in rats? Antibiotics? I could get those from a vet and at least try to help her find new homes for them but it seems they are just doomed to live in their small cage forever. I'm afraid she will try to find homes for them while they are infected too. I did handle them carefully(I 'check' all her pets when i see her to tell her if I see something wrong, tell her anything shes doing wrong, etc. She listens 90% of the time) and while they are somewhat skittish, they aren't aggressive.
rats are god tier, no one understands till they own and bond with one themselves
>pic related my late rat
>>2055464
>>2055063
Yes, rat bite fever can be cured in rats, people, and cats alike. You just need to go get some antibiotic. depending on the strain (have the vets check) the treatment is with penicillin, tetracycline or doxycycline. The chances of her transmitting it to a cat is pretty slim anyhow and she shouldn't let the rats around the cat anyway as that's just a bad idea all around.
By the way, if your friend actually did things with their rats (like keeping their claws trimmed or giving them sanded walkways) and kept them in cleaner conditions rat bite fever wouldn't be as likely. That illness is bacterial and comes from poor conditions more often than not. If you can take them home, cure them and give them a better life they should not relapse. Be sure to toss out all their old toys, bedding and anything else they may have had contact with to eliminate risk of re-infection.
>>2055782
Well if its treatable I'll hound her more. Their cage does get cleaned, fresh water and everything but treats them as if they're radioactive. They had it before she got them, from a house that had like 50+ rats for snake food. It got so bad that the ASCPA stepped in shortly after she took some.
Is there a scenario were they would have no choice to be put down instead of a vet treating them? When the other group was taken to the vet, she talked about it as if the vet gave her no choice and didn't want to take these girls because she said the vet would just euthanize them. Not sure if she was BSing me but financially, this isn't a problem with her at her and she will go out of her way to bring something to the vet so I'm not sure why she would lie to me if she is.
>>2055853
>she talked about it as if the vet gave her no choice and didn't want to take these girls because she said the vet would just euthanize them
That's probably because they came from a horrible hoarder situation. If the vet continues to insist this easily treatable illness isn't worth treating get a new vet. It will help if she mentions she has money to afford treatment and testing. The testing will cost more than the treatment.
Either way all the rats old stuff will need to be disinfected (if glass) or thrown away (if not).
![zoom[1].jpg_c=1405711470.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/S1oZM0a.jpg "zoom[1].jpg_c=1405711470.jpg")
You can get Oxytetracycline at any farm supply store.
Tractor Supply Company has free shipping:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/oxytetracycline-soluble-powder-6-2-5-oz?cm_vc=-10005
Add 1/8 of a teaspoon into their water bottle and let them drink that for a week. It should cure pretty much anything that ails them. This is good standard practice for any new rat quarantine tank.
What would happen if I take a streetrat as a pet? Any experiences?
>>2055888
Street rats can carry illnesses, may be pregnant if female, and aren't socialized so they won't be so nice or friendly.
You are better off with a safer, cleaner domesticated pet rat. Many people are willing to practically gift them if they know they are going to a loving home! Remember to make sure you get a same-sex couple so they can have company.
>>2055876
The only problem is that it might be a different strain of bacteria so it might not be a cure-all. You might even strengthen the old bacteria if they survive the wrong treatment making it harder to treat the rats. The treatment method is correct, though.
So what do you guys do with the rats' bodies once they've passed on to the other side?
>>2055951
Do marionette.
>"Life is just a human race."
can I ask this thread about a concerning lump on my mouse's chest is? there's no mouse or rodent general and i'd rather not start a new thread for one question
if so i'll post pictures if not i'll delete this post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvpgqVP7ykY
>>2055951
Bury or cremate them
>>2056121
as espected of namefag pigfucker
>>2055874
>>2055876
Thanks, I'll look into this.
Now I'm a little paranoid I have it because I've developed an itchy rash with red dots and a very sore throat. I'm not someone with sensitive skin or allergic to anything except penicillin as far as I know and only get sick once a year or two. I mean I scrubbed down like crazy and was wearing long sleeves but fuck me I guess.
>>2056118
Ask a vet.
>>2056118
most likely a mammary tumor.
>>2056154
-how long has it been
-did you get any scratches?
-what does your rash look like?
>>2056465
I'm thinking it was something else, since the soreness went down, the rashes, red dots and itchyness went away.
It had been two days, and last night I was in her room for about an hour when I started getting a rash and felt like glass was in my throat so I left. I had a scratch or two on my hands from the sugar gliders so unless they have it then I'll probably be fine unless this is something I should go get antibiotics for just in case.
This is an odd question, but can rats get dementia?
My ancient rat seems to be having a personality change. When she's out she wanders about aimlessly, and today she managed to fall off the top of her cage by trying to climb down the bars, which she's never tried once in her life. Her behaviour is also a bit different.
What's going on? Is her mind starting to fail in her old age?
>>2057055
Probably dying. Sorry, Anon.
I've own 4 or 5 rats in my life while also investigating some of the other commonly owned rodents, and I've come to the conclusion that the rodent pet hierarchy goes like this:
>God Tier
Guinea Pigs
>Great Tier
Rats
>Okay Tier
Gerbils, Rabbits
> Poor Tier
Hamsters
>Shit Tier
Mice
I recommend a Guinea Pig when your rat passes away.
>>2057093
Great list, but intelligence always makes rats god-tier.
Guinea pigs are solid great though. Gotta love things that purr. But having a guinea pig pee on you is no laughing matter.
I'd put chinchillas up at great tier too. They're practically monkeys. They have human fingernails, and they can hold things with one hand, which other rodents can't do. I honestly question if they are actual rodents.
>>2057093
I know she's dying anon, I'm honestly surprised she's reached the age she has. But how she's been acting is making me wonder if there's some kind of ratty dementia.
I had a guinea pig when I was younger, I agree they're fantastic pets. But having owned both of them, I think if I had to make a genuine choice between one or the other, I'd go with rats. Guinea pigs are amazing and I have a lot of fun memories of dear old Samson, but I think I just personally prefer keeping rats more.
>>2057093
>rodent pet hierarchy goes like this:
> Rabbits
>rodents
>>Rabbits
Dude
And no, they aren't 'practically rodents anyway'
i'd probably swap around guinea pigs and rats in that list through personal experience, but other than the rabbits, it's a good list.
>>2057137
>I'd put chinchillas up at great tier too. They're practically monkeys. They have human fingernails, and they can hold things with one hand, which other rodents can't do. I honestly question if they are actual rodents.
Yeah, I wasn't sure where to put Chinchillas since that's one of the few types I don't really have any experience in handling, so I left them out.
>>2057141
>And no, they aren't 'practically rodents anyway'
Huh, you learn something new every day.
>>2057093
Why are there so many rat people who hate mice?
Mice are just as smart as rats. The only reason it's harder to bond with them is because they're smaller and more fearful of humans.
>>2057158
Mice stink, a lot, and they're mean. A good day for mice is when they aren't trying to kill each other.
>>2057158
>because they're smaller and more fearful of humans.
you answered your own question.
if you're gonna get a pet, it makes more sense to get the larger pet who isn't as scared as humans.
Rat bowl when?
>>2042797
Don't they scent, though?
>>2057177
>Mice stink
If your mice stank, you were a shitty owner.
>A good day for mice is when they aren't trying to kill each other.
If you don't know how to socialize the mice properly, you're a shitty owner. You maybe also placed males together like the dumbass earlier in this thread that choked a mouse to death because it was doing what mice do naturally.
>>2057158
They're not as smart as rats, but they're still far more intelligent than the rest of the rodents. They can learn all the same tricks rats can learn, but not as quickly. They cannot learn their own names, their fellow rats names, or you and your families names like rats can.
Rat-lovers prefer rats because they like the personality rats have. Mice just have a different personality from rats, and it can be frustrating to people who want a pet they can touch and play with directly. You can walk your rat and play fetch with it like it's a dog. You give your mice fun stuff to play with, and watch them.
>>2057137
If we're gonna list the rodents based on intelligence, then the list would be like this:
God Tier
Rats
Great Tier:
Mice
Dumb ball of fluff tier:
everything else
>>2057338
>Dumb ball of fluff tier: everything else
I taught my guinea pig tricks, they're not as dumb as they look.
you can teach anything tricks with the correct methods. it's not good to base intelligence solely on ability to learn tricks.
if you were to choose one thing to base intelligence off, problem solving would likely be better.
2 day old feeder
Hey guys I want to ask if there is such a thing as a rat breeder with a history of rats that have a long life expectancy? I would love to own a rat again, but when my previous (and only) one passed away I was devastated. I was also thinking of a guinea pig, but I'm not sure how loud they are.
>>2057752
If you really want an animal that has a better chance of living a long time, a guinea pig is a better choice. They can live 2-3 times as long as a rat would.
Consider adopting one from your local animal shelter or rescue society instead of buying one from a store.
>>2057752
I used to get rats from Paper Heart Rattery and my oldest lived til almost 6. Shame she doesn't seem to breed anymore, they were the healthiest rats I ever had.
Do gambian pouched rats need similar care?
I have an old male unrelated to them who is over 6 years old now. (white one in pic). He's still a super-soft rex, still really horny, still lives bouncing around the room like a tiny deer. He's never even sneezed. Seems like a lot of the pups he's produced died of myco really young, though. but his litters were always huge, so maybe some were just bound to have weaker immune systems.
My friend adopted one of the pups and she's super healthy, too. She's over 2 years now, she's a dumbo rex like her dad, but she has really velveteen fur. She eats like a champ, has never been sneezy, very energetic.
I really wanted to be a breeder, to breed this old healthy rat dude for long-lived, friendly rats. But there isn't a huge demand for them here, and most people get their rats from this gigantic, disgusting slob who mass-breeds dozens of different animals. They buy from him because he supplies the only pet store around here that has rats.
Hey guys, this might seem a little morbid, but what do you do with your rats when they die? I don't have a yard I own I could bury mine in.
>>2057835
freezer...
>>2057835
You could have them cremated.
Or maybe you could do a burial at sea, if you live by the ocean. But maybe that's unsanitary. I dunno.
>>2057766
Ferrets are also good if you can handle their smell and the care requirements.
>>2057818
Six years is truly methusalistic for a rat. You must have taken great care of him.
>>2057835
>tfw mines are still in the freezer
I can't part with them.
>>2057902
This guy should have been put out to stud.
>>2058096
Have you considered stuffing and mounting them, or would that be too weird?
>>2058111
TOo weird desu. I'm considering cremation.
>>2058114
That's a reasonable option. I've had most of my late animals cremated.
