Hi, I'm quite new to this and I was hoping if there were some tips on how to create a living biosphere with plants, ants and possibly other critters? I wanted to see if you guys had ideas on plants that I could add that would be compatible with an ant species known as Harvester Ants, small self sufficient plants that could survive with artificial sunlight bulbs in a fish tank 4'x2'?
I plan to add a small pond that wont soak through the dirt, and small bugs that could survive on plants or aquatic plants that could be another source of food for the ants, and maybe some predator bugs for the ants to help keep down their population.
bump.
I'm interested
>>2017858
You can't create a working ecosystem in a small tank. The ants would eat too much of the plant before it can regrow, kill all the food bugs or the predator would wipe out the ants.
Best you could do is give the ants some aphids in case the species is known for milking them so they can live together.
>>2018330
I believe this is true. Ecosystems are too big and chaotic to try to contain. OP, I would say figure out which animals you'd like to keep as a baseline, then figure out what else you can put in there that can live comfortably in the same conditions.
So, I'm thinking about a little formicarium too, but I would just put it inside a terrarium with some air plants as decoration. not trying to devise an elaborate interconnected ecosystem, just caring for the ants and caring for the plants and they live in the same terrarium.
Hi guys,
Well I'm sort of a gizmo guy, a systems engineer with emphasis of mechatronics by trade, and I've always had a fascination with zoology when I was a kid. I was instead thinking of using a larger tank, 5 feet long, 2.5 feet wide with a height of 3 feet. I'll fill it up to 1.6 feet of dirt, with loose dry desert dirt on the far left side (where the ants will be), with more richer fertilized potting dirt in the middle (some small stones or barks will be scatted through the tank except in the water) with a pond to the right that varies in depth from very shallow to 2" deep max. In the middle of the tank, I will add a stump/log that is buried underground and rises over the dirt about 4 inches. The pond will barely touch the log, to keep it moisturized, and the pond will have grout underneath to prevent it from leaking through the ground. Plus the pond will have an air tube to pass oxygen through it. I plan to add a few air fans with a wired meshed cover to help circulate air through the tank.
I was planning on building a humidifier in the tank, with enough artificial sun light bulbs around the tank to keep the temperature at 80 degrees fahrenheit. (or adjust it accordingly to the species that I will have).
Some baseline plants that I will have will include air plants, but before I add any plants that I permanently want (or any other animals) I will add a bunch of leaves and leaf cutter ants, the idea is for them to help fertilize and make the dirt underneath full of air pockets. Once they have done their job, I'll kill them off by not feeding them anymore.
Once I have done this, I will then add some critters, such as silverfish bugs, pill bugs and others to populate the tank and feed them some damp leaves. I will then include more plants such as air plants, more leaves, moss, (still researching on which other ones) that could be a good food source, and then a carnivorous plant, maybe one or two Droseras.
Before I add the ants or any other predators, I was planning on building a reservoir next to the tank, connected by a tube, and inside the reservoir, will be either a cricket or blood worm farm. In the tube, I will add a throttle plate that will open or close when the reservoir starts getting full, and when I need to feed the carnivores inside.
As for the pond, some baseline aquatic critters that I wanted to have would be triops. Before I added any other aquatic critters, I plan on having them first populate and thrive in the pond, and if this is achieved, I wanted to research, which other semi aquatic species that I could add in there that could probably feed on the smaller insects and not the triops, like some crab or crayfish species.
Once I have the ecosystem running fine, I was think of perhaps adding some macrotermes malaccensis colony in the log area and have them maintain a stable population there. Afterwords, if I have the opportunity, there is this species that lives not too far away from where I live (in arizona). There is the amphibious/ reptile species that's called the mexican worm lizard and its from La Paz mexico. I was planning on going there next year, and if I could I could capture and bring some of those mexican worm lizards in the terrarium that I was building. From what I researched, they eat ants, termites, and other little insects and they live underground as well. If I managed to have all of these critters living and thriving well, I will then add the ant colony. In the beginning, I will keep them isolated, as the left side of the tank will be mostly exposed to the sunlight lamps. Once their colony starts, I will remove them from isolation and see where things go. I'm still debating which ant species I'll add, but maricopa harvester ants seem like the most tame peaceful ones.
Some things that I will still add in the tank is water (if the water level starts decreasing in the tank), some fruits, to help hydrate some critters that dont drink from the pond or mist form the humidifier, and here's a list of some species that I'm debating whether to include or not,
Pill Bugs
Sliver Fish bugs
Drosera (or) Venus Fly Traps
Mexican mole lizard (or) Leptotyphlops humilis
crickets (for reservoir)
crab (don't know which ones exactly)
macrotermes malaccensis
Maricopa Harvester (or) Carpenter Ants
House centipedes (Scutigera Coleoptrata)
whip scorpion
>>2017858
>ant colony
Sorry?
Dude ants will grow exponentially and completely eradicate all other forms of life.
>>2019068
True, but I don't expect to create a sustainable biosphere, which would be good if achieved (and a goal or challenge). I'm not in this for pets, but rather to test out my creativity and knowledge in the area. I don't really care if the critters survive or not, but just something to do to kill time. Btw, its because of my fascination with creativity that I come here on 4chan, cuz OC and creativity go hand in hand and creativity is appreciated more here than in other places.
>>2019068
to be more brutally and honestly frank with you, I would be more interested in seeing the little critters fight each other, more than anything. But if I do manage to pull off a sustainable biosphere, then I could publish my work and contribute somewhat to the field of ecology or others related.
>>2019069
If you guys prefer, I could just not add the ants and keep just the macrotermes malaccensis (termites), if you guys think that would be more entertaining?
>>>2019059
>>2019074
Nothing you mentioned would work. Termites would be boring as fuck because you'd never see them. Ants will kill everything. Triops won't breed unless you're constantly letting the whole pond evaporate which rules out any other aquatic life and they'll eat each other anyway. There are almost no small freshwater crab species in the pet trade.
I don't even know what to say about the leaf cutter ant plan, that's not viable on every single possible level.
If you want to do this and actually have it work look up dart frog vivarium builds, and bioactive substrates and follow those guides as closely as possible.
>>2019101
Or alternatively...just grow a bunch of plants in your backyard and put in a pond...
>>2019075
>But if I do manage to pull off a sustainable biosphere, then I could publish my work and contribute somewhat to the field of ecology or others related.
A few plants and bugs in an open tank does not a sustainable biosphere make
>>2019101
I'll check that out, as for the leaf cutter ants, the idea was to have them build tunnels that help "oxygenize" the ground, because of the fungus that they produce, which is similar to what termites do which would help plants or other borrowing species once they have died off
>>2019107
Well the thought behind that one was for a decent sized tank to create an artificial environment where I could regulate temperature and other environmental conditions, because outside where I live, temperatures aren't stable and it'll kill off all species that I'm interested in documenting/observing.
>>2019111
>temperatures aren't stable and it'll kill off all species that I'm interested in documenting/observing.
Yes, but that's the normal behavior patterns for those animals.
You're also vastly underestimating the amount of space all of the animals need and the type of plants.
>>2019109
Again, that won't work. For leafcutters you'd need the substrate to be way WAY deeper, and even if that wasn't a concern you'd be spending a fuckton of money and time to do something an incredibly convoluted way. Do you even have a source for buying an entire leafcutter colony? It'd be expensive as hell and they'd die before they go a fungus farm. That whole plan is like wanting to till and fertilize your farm and saying "I want to aerate the soil so I'm going to buy 100 aardvarks and let them dig everything up and then i'll get some elephants to walk over the field to collapse their burrows in and kill them which will fill in the soil and fertilize it"
No offense, but it heavily sounds like you don't actually know anything about any of these topics and have just strung together an incredibly convoluted plan with things you've heard about animals that seem like they in theory would very vaguely work.
>>2019065
>Carpenter Ants
They are asshole bullies.
>>2019108
Yoda pls leave.
>>2019118
actually there is a farm of them that lives nearby, and I don't believe that their farms would be all that expensive to order or difficult to maintain as many others have ordered them. Its true that I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I'm interested in learning about this and that's why I pointed out that this isn't my area of expertise in the beginning. Just here to hear some opinions and guidance is all.
>>2019118
but their fungus is not to fertilize the soil but rather help circulate air through the ground, plus I'm not planning on having an ant farm anymore, I've already rejected that idea, so that would prevent the elephant part of your analogy (if I understood it correctly), and thanks for helping me dance around and explore these ideas, I really appreciate your feedback and I hope that you don't see me as someone who doesn't consider or is ignorant with your input, you can't deny though, terariums/ farms/formicariums/ bioactive substrates/ vivariums are fascinating projects
If you're interested in this kind of stuff you could get yourself one of those ecospheres with shrimps in them.
Apparenty they can survive quite some time.
>>2019131
If you want to make sure theres extra air circulation, just get earthworms.
Yeah sorry I wasn't trying to be rude, just trying to keep you from having the whole plan tank.
I highly, HIGHLY recommend you just going with a dart frog style vivarium which is pretty much what I think you are saying you want anyway and then adding various bugs to it. (google 'bioactive clean up crew' to see the most suitable stuff for a semi ecosystem)
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/members-frogs-vivariums/6447-display-vivarium-update-planted.html
Good ideas, I could have a pond with shrimp (better than triops) and probably other land or semi aquatic exoskeleton species, like crabs, whip scorpions, or other species that wont totally eradicate everything like ants. I'm still considering the macrotermes though (they could be a food source for other bigger critters), I was planning on having the log cut in half, and have it buried under the dirt with just a top portion protruding a few inches above, where the face of the log that was cut face the surface of the tank, so that you could see some activity that is going on if they do borrow in the log. Some other crustaceans that I found that I also like and aren't crazy like ants are Jerusalem crickets, they don't seem like they would kill everything (like camel spiders that look like them) and they look pretty cool. I'm still considering having the mexican mole lizard though (I might be one of the few people actually documenting them in enclosed habitat and experimenting how to make them survive).
>>2019134
If by quite some time you mean a year or two if nothing goes wrong then sure
>>2017858
>>2019144
Crabs are shrimp hitler.
I'm also still considering house centipedes (Scutigera Coleoptrata). In your guys opinion, should I abandon the carnivorous plant idea like droseras or venus fly traps?
>>2019139
just out of curiosity, were the one who built that vivarium?
>>2019154
I wish. I have a few vivs but they're kind of dumpy. everything's bioactive and works nicely though.
>>2019144
crabs will fuck up everything and it's hard to find true freshwater species anyway. Jerusalem crickets would probably be fine. Much much too moist for camel spider who do poorly in captivity anyway. Also probably going to be too wet for the mole lizard but i could be wrong. Do you even have a source on those though? If so, where? I have never once even heard of them for sale.
>>2019150
Probably. Venus flytraps especially need dormancy periods or they die. Nepenthes would be a better bet if you're set on carnivorous plants.
>>2019192
Naw, the mole lizards aren't for sale anywhere I searched on the web. I'm pretty set on mexican mole lizards though because they're the only ones with hands,
http://www.wormlizard.org/FAMILYBIPIDAE.html
What interests me the most though is not the fact that they look cool, just that there isn't any documentation of them online on how to care for them, how to raise them, or how they reproduce, and so fourth. I would have to physically bring them over from La Paz mexico to Arizona, and build them a habitat. I wouldn't do this though if they were an endangered species, but they aren't so I feel more at ease in mind about that. If I do manage though to successfully breed them and farm them I could put them up for sale. If not I don't succeed, then if I go to La Paz Mexico again, I'll bring in some more and donate them to whoever is interested in farming them for me (I go to Mexico from time to time for the beach).
Currently the only place that has them in captivity is El Serpentario De La Paz, but unfortunately they don't publicize about mole lizards being raised in captivity, but seeing where they live (in dumps) plus they eat almost everything, they seem like a resilient species to try to raise in captivity.
Here's a cool documentary about the mexican mole lizards though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sEtQ5cgdew
Thanks for your advice on some of the bugs I listed, I'm mostly interested in exotic/ prehistoric looking arthropods/ isopods/ trilobites/ crustaceans/ or arachnids like whip scorpions, jerusalem crickets, some crab species that I'm investigating (like halloween moon crabs), and others that could live well with other species and wont be destructive in terrariums. (with the mexican mole lizards being one of the few exceptions). Some other critters that I've found that seem cool are the trilobite beetles but their an endangered species, so Ima have to look up other species. (I'm also interested in a bio diverse semi-ecosystem)
>>2019209
good luck actually finding them, keep in mind you'll be fucked if you get caught with them at the border unless you have an import/export permit which is extremely expensive. If you do breed them somehow though sign me up for a few
Trilobite beetles are unfortunately completely unobtainable legally or not. Moon crabs are a terrible idea because they will kill absolutely everything. Your best bet would be vampire crabs but those will still fuck up everything.
Jerusalem crickets are also pretty proficient predators. I'd be concerned about the likelyhood of them fucking up the mole lizards.
