Just how effective were saber teeth compared to more modern carnivore teeth and why did it die out? Their bites obviously weren't as strong as anyone would like to think so they most often relied on strength and size, so did the 'sabers' of the animal world die out in favor of the smaller animals with a stronger bite force?
At some point they must have been some sort of advantage considering all the saber cats, false-saber cats and even some kinda-of-not-really marsupials had them. Was it just an 'advantage' at some point because these animals just happened to be large enough to subdue their prey by brute force alone?
Pic related, Thylacosmilus atrox.
Also pic related maybe, a clouded leopard skull. Very long canines and more pronounced sagittal crest.
>>2012925
Like Jaguars and Panthers today they'd climb up trees and drop down ontop of prey using their sabers (and the momentum) to stab into the backs of the prey. They died out most likely thanks to the ice age causing more grasslands to form.
>>2012939
>dropcats
>>2012939
That seems incredibly risky for breaking them, and possibly their weird lower jaws depending how long they were because they look pretty thin.
Those features were probably just the result of being favored in the environment they lived in, with larger prey animals and such. Having teeth like that is kind of a disadvantage when you only have small prey to hunt, since animals with smaller teeth do the same or better without the energy investment required to grow huge incisors.
>>2012940
Kek
>>2012939
Sounds very risky. What if they hit bone? What if they go into the prey, but the attacked keeps falling, and they snap behind the weight of the animal?
>>2012939
This is the opposite of what I heard from a legit saber tooth researcher. She said that they did NOT hunt like lions who held on to their prey until they died, because their teeth are so thin in the side-to-side way (sorry couldn't think of a good word to describe that) that they can't handle any kind of lateral pressure or movement without breaking. Instead, they would slash big chunks out of their prey then come back and slash again. No holding on.
You can sort of see in the pic what I'm trying to describe. They are thicker when looking from the side of the skull than the front of the skull.
>>2012925
>why did it die out?
Ha ha, FOOL!
>>2012939
All the mass human hunting driving the megafauna into extinction would have removed their natural prey
>>2014236
Pretty sure they just hold on with their claws until the prey is dead or tired, then finish it off with a bite to the throat
>>2014304
>hurhurrr humans caused it all
Having a guess here but they lived in the ice age right or very cold environments? So animals during the ice age would have thicker skin or hides in order to stay warm, maybe they needed such teeth to get through the hides.
Some animal hides are a bastard to cut open.
>>2014340
>hurhurrr humans caused it all
you cant deny that humans have made a profound impact on wildlife whenever they were.
whether its "bad" or "good" is up to you
>>2014329
I'm more inclined to believe the guy who has spoken to an actual professional, then again he could be making it up...
>>2014602
>then again he could be making it up...
probably not.
there's broad agreement that all the sabre-tooth animals had laterally compressed fangs, so they couldn't withstand much torsion or lateral drag. This weakness is compounded by the length of the fangs, they placed a lot of leverage force on themselves and the rest of the skull.
there's also broad agreement that all of these unrelated animals had the same jaw and occiput morphology. The jaw opened extremely wide and the angle and size of the ventro-flexor muscles attachment to the mastoid indicate that the fangs were essentially used as a hatchet.
the animals would open their mouths super wide and then stab their faces down into a prey animal using highly developed neck muscles evolved just for that task.
what part of the animal they stabbed, and whether or not they preyed from above are things we don't really know. However even if they killed with a blow to the neck, they'd still feed by slashing open flesh with the fangs.
Personally I favor the idea that they attacked from above and aimed for the neck, but only because none of the known saber-toothed animals are good runners. Slashing prey and then waiting for collapse from shock or exsanguination would require a running ability they seem to completely lack.
tl;dr: Professionals don't exactly agree.
citations available on request. Name the part you're wondering about.
>>2014639
I remember watching a documentary that had a boatload of evidence that sabretooths where ambush hunters and that the wear and tear of their lower spines and hips proved that they used their claws to hold prey in place, and then drag them off of their feet to the ground. The scientists seemed to think that they only used their fangs to finish the animal off once it was too exhausted to fight back.
Is there any proof to that theory? Could sabretooths have leaped out of nowhere, sunk their fore claws into a giant ass herbivore, then held it in place with sheer brute strength until the sabretooth could bring it to it's knees and sink it's fangs in?
>>2012925
What does the protrusion under his chin do?
>>2014735
They provide extra support/protection for the sabre teeth senpai
>>2012939
>All this broscience
They obviously used it to insanguinate their prey with powerful, slashing movements. What else would they use it for? They track the prey, run up to it, cut it up, track it down again, cut it up again, track it down again, cut it up again, until it bleeds to death and then boom. Fresh meat.
Also, just as a heads up, their frames don't look like they were built for speed, so they would probably rather rely on stealth.
>>2014639
> but only because none of the known saber-toothed animals are good runners
What is Homotherini? They are saber tooth cats , refereed to as 'scimitar-toothed cats'. Their sabers were significantly smaller and had serrated edges.
They also had long legs front legs, non-retractable claws, hyena-like proportions and a large nasal cavity so I think this animal was pretty OK at running. Possibly similar to that of a hyena where they gallop with ease for awhile then once their prey is tired they rush in.
>>2014703
>Could sabretooths have leaped out of nowhere, sunk their fore claws into a giant ass herbivore, then held it in place with sheer brute strength until the sabretooth could bring it to it's knees and sink it's fangs in?
Assuming you are talking about smilodon, it probably really depends on what it's hunting and if it was a solitary hunter or not. I doubt they ever lived in prides or large groups, but I can imagine them pairing, or maybe 4 or so individuals.
>>2014740
Their fangs were quite fragile, so it would have been pretty risky repeatedly using them on prey that's able to throw them off and run away until it bleeds to death. There would have been a high chance of the fangs snapping as the prey broke away, which is why it's often suggested that they may have immobilised their prey with their forelimbs, wrestled them down and then gone for a killing bite once it was relatively safe to do so.
But ultimately, it's all speculation and there was a variety of sabretooth predators that evolved independently of each other.
>>2014795
Nah, "slashing," man. "Slashing."
They make large gashes in their hide and flesh with vertical cuts along their flanks or sides. Then the animal runs off to exacerbate wounding and the saber tooth just takes its time playing a bloody version of tag-you're-it with its prey.
Minimal dental work, excellent results.
>>2014800
>have to run fast enough to catch an animal
>have to slash at an running animal
>slashing a running animal risks breaking teeth
>then have to run them down again
>more slashing=more broken teeth
>more running
neck attack is one stab. Your explanation is multiple stabs of a moving animal and tons of running.
it's normal to support the ideas you heard from your professor, but in this case it's not likely to be true.
>>2014839
I kinda feel like this too. If they werent built for speed, perhaps a nocturnal hunter? Single bite to throat of sleeping prey would fuck them up pretty good.
