![dog[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/h3HAyDF.gif "dog[1].gif")
Why is it so fucking hard to find a good dog, especially a puppy?
>Go to a shelter and pick an old fucked up mutt, a chihuahua, or a pitbull
>craigslist cunts selling "purebreed akc but lol no shots or papers just trust me that'll be $600 please
>Actual breeders, won't take less than $2000
I'm a complete noob to this shit. I just want a good puppy, not a mongrel, and I don't want to take out a mortgage.
All of my googling is dozens of pages of people screaming about how anything other than a shelter rescue is tantamount to blatant Hitlerism
It's not hard to find a good dog, they just cost a lot. You can find some good dogs occasionally at your local shelter.
Why does he need to be purebred or from an actual breeder?
>>2012703
>Why does he need to be purebred or from an actual breeder?
It doesn't. But I do want a puppy that wasn't a product of a redneck mutt who got out of its yard and got raped by a stray so theres a box of free puppies in front of walmart
>>2012708
You might want to look in the classifieds section of your states website, there are tons that I see, with papers and shots some are like $400.
Unless you don't live in the states.
>download petfinder
>put in zip code
>click age group you're looking for (probably "baby" or "young")
have you even tried this or are you just prematurely whining because the perfect dog hasn't been handed to you on a silver platter?
>tfw our shelter has two German shepherd pups, a border collie mix pup, a pit mix pup, and a curly coated retriever mix pup
they're out there anon. just stop being a lil bitch and actually look
>>2012724
>prematurely whining because the perfect dog hasn't been handed to you on a silver platter?
sweet assumptions bro. I've spent at least an hour every day, usually more, for over a month looking for the right dog. talked to dozens of people. I'm only making this thread because I'm at my wits end.
Also I'm willing to bet you don't live in southern california. animal shelters tend to mimic prison populations. ours happen to be full of dogs for niggers and spics
you get what you pay for. quality dogs cost money to breed. if you are unwilling to pay for a quality dog, you're going to be stuck with shit or a mystery mutt.
>southern california
well, no wonder you're having trouble. look outside that shithole.
>Breeders charge thousands for a dog
>Make you sign contracts, do home visits and treat you like criminals for daring to want their dog
>People instead buy dogs from puppy mills because they're cheap and no questions asked
>Breeders cry "BAWWW DON'T BUY FROM BACKYARD BREEDERS"
Fuck professional dog breeders. They're running a racket and pricing everyday people out of the market. No wonder backyard breeders are such a problem when actual breeders act like greedy dicks. I can buy a purebred kitten for 50, so why am I being charged 2000 for a puppy?
>>2012872
>so why am I being charged 2000 for a puppy?
Because some people are willing to pay $2k for a puppy
>>2012872
You realize the only ones losing in this situation are you and the sickly puppy you're buying.
Reputable breeders charge a lot because it's very costly to produce healthy puppies, and even then they rarely break even. They are also particular where their puppies go because they want to ensure their puppies will continue to be happy and healthy, and many people have no clue what that entails.
>>2012872
>Oh em gee, it's impossible to just look at a puppy and figure out his future temperament and personality, nobody can do that!
>Here, let me the proud breeder look my puppies and figure out which will have a future temperament and personality that'll fit you and maybe I'll deign let you buy one!
wat
>>2012872
Where can I get purebred cat for 50?
>>2012889
From a BYB.
>>2012872
>pricing everyday people out of the market
Because they don't want "everyday people" (i.e. you) to adopt their dogs. To be quite honest, family, you're obviously too poor or stingy to own one and care for it the way the breeder would want you to. You are not their target audience. Go to a shelter or take the risk of having an unhealthy inbred from a byb.
>>2012879
>and even then they rarely break even
I have a hard time believing the same market that causes buyers to spend thousands for a dog would also have enough incentive for people to spend even more than that just to get the satisfaction of breeding good dogs
I tell people who complain about my prices that I'm barely breaking even too
>>2012896
people who care this much about animals are broken somehow
Professional breeders and their obsession over breed standards are a fucking blight. Can't believe how much problems in their dogs it takes for them to even accept bringing in new genes from mixes or similar dogs.
>>2012924
If you're familiar with the world you'd understand. It's hard to explain to someone who isn't involved in working trials, conformation shows, obedience trials etc... because you don't really get to see the time and money involved.
>>2012879
>>2012896
Woman at my workplace bought a dog from a proper dog breeder. Turned out it's got a shitton of health problems and may need to be put down. It's 5 months old.
Dog breeders breed for nice looking dogs. Dog buyers don't give a shit about hip/shoulder ratios or muzzle length, they want a loving companion. Are they going to spend a fortune on an inbred dog, or a pittance on an inbred dog?
>>2012970
>Woman at my workplace bought a dog from a proper dog breeder.
>Turned out it's got a shitton of health problems and may need to be put down. It's 5 months old.
That's a dog from a BYB, not a reputable breeder. A reputable breeder carefully screens the breeding dogs for hereditary health problems.
>Dog breeders breed for nice looking dogs.
Good breeders breed for health, temperament and structure.
>Dog buyers don't give a shit about hip/shoulder ratios or muzzle length, they want a loving companion.
They should care. A structurally sound dog is a healthier than a bow legged, sway backed dog.
>Are they going to spend a fortune on an inbred dog, or a pittance on an inbred dog
Not all purebred dogs are inbred.
>>2012979
Isn't the point of purebred dogs that they're inbred to the point some features constantly come out in their pups?
>>2012984
No.
>>2012979
>That's a dog from a BYB, not a reputable breeder. A reputable breeder carefully screens the breeding dogs for hereditary health problems.
Nope, actual professional breeder. Came highly recommended, been breeding for years, regularly shows his dogs and has won numerous awards. Sold her this dog because it wasn't up to breed standards. He's now denying there's anything wrong with it and 'it must have had a fall after you bought it'. Funny how a fall can somehow make all 4 of your knee caps vanish.
>>2013015
What's the breeders name? Breed?
What's the kennel name?
I used Petfinder and got the best dog I could ever ask for. No barking, no biting, temperament of a Golden, playful like a puppy still and he's 2.5 years old. Got him around 1y.o. from a shelter 2 hours away from my home. I have since moved 1200mi and the dog loves the weather here so much! He deserved a colder climate than south Texas.
>>2013025
Cutie. Looks like a golden/ Australian Shepard mix.
What kind of dog do you want, and what do you want it for? Also give me a zip code or city you live in/close to. I will find you a dog for <$200.
>>2012726
>Also I'm willing to bet you don't live in southern california.
I actually used to work in a shelter down there, so you're really not saying anything new
and there's plenty of rescues in SoCal, some even breed specific, which is where you should be looking if you care so much about the breed not being a pit or chihuahua (even though a shit ton of the dogs labeled as pitbulls in shelters down there aren't even pitbulls, especially considering how it's extra difficult to phenotype puppies)
and how wide of a radius are you even looking in? it's not uncommon for people to go out of town if they find a dog they really want. posting your zip code would help a lot
>>2012698
>good puppy
>not a mongrel
Pick one.
>>2012979
The bullshit you believe is rediculos.
So riddle me this. What happens to the dogs that do have health problems? What if a whole litter has a genetic problem, do they raise that whole litter themselves?
>not all purebreed dogs are inbred
Yes they are. You literally have no idea what a purebreed dog is.
>>2013064
Supposedly, they do genetic tests on both parents and avoid matching those who have known genetic problems of the breed, so that the pups don't have it.
Now, I don't know what they do with pups who happen to have unrelated health problems, or have a random genetic problem not common of the breed. I'd like to know from the other Anon too.
>>2013064
>What happens to the dogs that do have health problems?
That depends on the dog and the health problem. For example, say your stud receives a 'fair' grade for his hips, but is not hindered in any way. That dog will most likely be neutered and placed in a home that is aware of his hip grade.
>What if a whole litter has a genetic problem, do they raise that whole litter themselves?
Again, that depends on the problem and the way it effects the puppies. It is not common for carefully bred pups to have health problems, especially problems that are apparent and crippling at birth. It is even less common for an entire litter to be born with health defects.
Purebred dogs are not necessarily inbred. In fact, many breeders use pedigree databases to track the inbreeding percent in their animals. One such site is pawpeds.com. It is not considered good breeding to create a litter that is more than 5% inbred.
>>2013072
>supposedly
The problem is that the genetic diversity of purebreed dogs is so low that you just can't avoid issues. If what he's suggesting actually happened, they would have eliminated the issues of each breed. Plus the adults always develop problems later in life that you can't see as a puppy.
Plus then you have to factor in physically deformed dogs. You can not breed a healthy pug/sloped german/daschund/corgi/bulldog etc etc etc. Their "official" look is physically not healthy.
>>2013073
>especially problems that are apparent and crippling at birth
Yeah all the problems occur later in life. That's the issue.
You clearly don't understand genetics.
Purebreed dogs were made by inbreeding.,,
They did a study on a few thousand pugs and showed they had the genetic diversity of 18.
>>2013073
Also.
http://www.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_purebred_dogs_complications
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/although-purebred-dogs-can-be-best-in-show-are-they-worst-in-health/
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv10_WvGxo
>>2013074
>The problem is that the genetic diversity of purebreed dogs is so low that you just can't avoid issues.
if that was true there would be no healthy purebreds, and there are.
>If what he's suggesting actually happened, they would have eliminated the issues of each breed.
If only reputable breeders were breeding dogs, that would happen. But unfortunately, bad breeders outnumber good ones.
>Plus the adults always develop problems later in life that you can't see as a puppy.
Again, that would mean that all adult purebred dogs are unhealthy, which is not even close to being true.
>Plus then you have to factor in physically deformed dogs. You can not breed a healthy pug/sloped german/daschund/corgi/bulldog etc etc etc. Their "official" look is physically not healthy.
You cannot say that all purebred dogs are unhealthy just because Pugs exist. Yes, there are breeds that are physically hampered by their standard. To be honest, I am not a fan of those breeds. They should be changed to a less extreme shape. But again, that does not mean that every purebred dog is an unhealthy mess.
>>2013078
Ausfag 12/07/15(Mon)13:57:08 No.2013078â–¶
>>2013073 #
>especially problems that are apparent and crippling at birth
>Yeah all the problems occur later in life. That's the issue.
Most major genetic health issues show up between 2-5 years in age. That is why you continue to health test the dogs and you don't breed too young.
>They did a study on a few thousand pugs and showed they had the genetic diversity of 18.
Source please.
>>2013085
There's literally no point arguing with you because you've already shown you have no idea how genetics works.
>blaming BYB breeders for the health issues of the breed
Oh Jesus.
I'm not going to convince you, but stop being taken in by the bloody show clubs.
Pure breed dogs are genetic disasters formed by hundreds of inbreeding. And least 3/4 of the purebreeds are physically abnormal, which you CAN NOT argue with.
which leaves Goldens/labs, 60% of those die of cancer and suffer massive hip problems. Go learn some more.
>>2013085
Also mutts > pure breeds
>>2013079
you should know by now that blogs and opinion pieces are not credible sources.
http://www.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_purebred_dogs_complications
This article just talks about some of the hereditary defects found in purebred dogs. It does not site any sources, or talk about any studies or hard numbers. It also has some blatantly wrong information
>Dog clubs often require that their dogs be bred within the same club, which again ends up severely limiting the gene pool variety. As many of these gene pools are limited or closed, the risk of genetic defects rises significant
The only clubs that I know of that do that are obscure hunting clubs. In fact, I can think of only one club associated with the Korthals Griffon.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/although-purebred-dogs-can-be-best-in-show-are-they-worst-in-health/
This one is the same. It uses the Bulldog as an example of how messed up purebreds are, without even visiting the dozens and dozens of breeds that are very healthy.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv10_WvGxo [Embed]
Another opinion piece.
>>2013101
>dozens of breeds that are healthy
Name them and you're ignoring the rest of them which are unhealthy?
>>2013093
You make an awful lot of claims without backing them up.
That tells me how little you know about breeding purebred dogs. If you had some real proof that 75% of all purebred dogs were crippled or had major health problems, you would post it.
But you don't because you are either uninformed, ignorant, or full of shit.
>breedfags go on and on about how unless you go to a reputable breeder (only a small fraction of breeders out there) your dog will be sickly
>gets butthurt about purebreds being considered less healthy
every time
>http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/07/05/pet-genetic-disorders.aspx
But are mixed and designer breeds really healthier? Not according to what many veterinarians see in their practices... and not according to a recently published five-year study of veterinary cases at the University of California, Davis. This research indicates that mixed breeds don't automatically have an advantage when it comes to genetic disorders.
13 of 24 Genetic Disorders Occurred at Same Rate in Mixed Breeds and Purebreds
The UC Davis researchers looked at the records of over 90,000 purebred and mixed breed dogs that had been patients at the university’s veterinary medical teaching hospital between 1995 and 2010. Designer dogs were included in the study, since crossbreeding is presumed to reduce or eliminate genetic disorders like hypothyroidism, epilepsy, hip dysplasia and cancer.
Of the 90,000 records reviewed, 27,254 involved dogs with at least one of 24 genetic disorders, including various types of cancers, heart disease, endocrine system dysfunction, orthopedic conditions, allergies, bloat, cataracts, eye lens problems, epilepsy and liver disease. According to the study, which was published in the June 1, 2013 edition of the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association1, the prevalence of 13 of the 24 genetic disorders was about the same for purebreds as mixed breeds. Some of those disorders were hip dysplasia, hyper- and hypoadrenocorticism, cancers, lens luxation and patellar luxation.
Ten conditions were found more frequently among purebred dogs, including dilated cardiomyopathy, elbow dysplasia, cataracts, and hypothyroidism.
Cont.....
Con't....
One disorder was actually more common in mixed-breeds – cranial cruciate ligament ruptures.
“Overall, the study showed that the prevalence of these genetic disorders among purebred and mixed-breed dogs depends on the specific condition," said animal physiologist Anita Oberbauer, professor and chair of the Department of Animal Science at UC Davis and lead author of the study.
>>2013103
>Name them
Are you going to debate me on the definition of 'healthy'? Because I'm pretty sure your next step is to argue semantics.
>and you're ignoring the rest of them which are unhealthy?
See
>>2013085
>Yes, there are breeds that are physically hampered by their standard. To be honest, I am not a fan of those breeds. They should be changed to a less extreme shape.
>>2013110
That hasn't even come up in this thread.
You looking outside your city, OP?
I found my pupper from a great breeder in some podunk hamlet about two hours from where I live, and she was only $800 CDN
If you think a $2000 upfront payment is a lot of money to spend on a dog, boy are you up for a world of hurt if you actually get one.
>>2013143
I'm curious; short of surgery, what other UPFRONT cost would run into the thousands of dollars?
>>2013147
I'm referring to the not-upfront costs.
>>2013130
chocolates master puppers 2bh
>>2013126
are you blind?
>>2013096
That depends. When mutts are purebred x purebred like bernardoodles or labradoodles or peekapoos or some like that can be as shitty as the worst memedog you can imagine. Mutts tend to be healthy if they're landrace mutts, not just mixed dogs with traceable heritage.
>>2013155
On the other hand, if you spend 2000$ on buying the dog, that's 2000$ less dollars you can spend on the dog's wellbeing.
>>2013669
ideally, that $2000 will be for the breeder to recoup the money they've already spent on the pup's well-being. and then you'll be less likely to need to spend a large amount of money on a vet in the future.
thats the problem with you guys you treat animals like such ridiculous property, YOU CANT BUY LOVE
Seriously OP do you not look
https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/33776226
https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/33568495
https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/33416649
https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/33272954
https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/33416514
https://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/33248761
All of those are So. Cal dogs and they were all on the first two fucking pages
Guys, OP is a fucking moron who probably wouldn't even be able to care for a dog if given one; clear out guys, it's all ogre now.
>>2012984
No. Actually BYBs are the worst offenders of inbreeding. They breed for appearance and what they can see, and do this by inbreeding their own stock. They know that if both lines have X trait, and they breed the resulting line to itself, there will be a much better chance of X trait. Or, if a litter has X trait that they want, they could breed it to the siblings or back to the mother/father for a higher chance of X trait showing in the pups. A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous.
I'm no fan of inbreeding, but if one is going to inbreed, all animals involved need a plethora of health tests first and it shouldn't be such a close inbreeding.
>>2013015
Just because they are highly recommended and won shows means nothing, unfortunately. Look at the Micro Tiny Teacup breeder that sold Brittany Spears her Chi; they are super highly recommended and have been on TV and celbrity endorsed. And they produce the most unhealthy puppies ever. Or just the entire Pug breed; the most unhealthy pugs have won shows before. Doesn't make the breeders any less shit. There's more to it than reviews and ribbons.
Anyone knows if rough collies have any common health issues?
>>2013072
>>2013064
If it's a livable condition, then they are fixed and sent to a special home that can take care of said condition. The price on the dog is often cheaper, but the review process is harder because it's a special needs animal. I've heard of breeders having dogs with birth defects and such give them to family members usually. That's how my mother got her Irish Setter
For entire litters to be fucked, we're imagining something serious is going on. Infection in the womb, maybe (although a reputable breeder would monitor this and it wouldn't progress enough to be an issue). But such issues would result in a litter of dogs that would be too fucked to live, let alone be adopted. For any dog that isn't stable enough to live a happy life, they are euthanized.
Now lets say the dog and bitch had a litter that had a bad genetic issue. Hip dysplasia, blindness, deafness etc. The dog and bitch would be fixed, and the line would end.
>>2013078
Now now, pugs are literally the worst dog breed. Have they done a study on GSPs? Coonhounds? Are you getting all your information on Pedigree Exposed? Maybe a dog that has a purpose in life besides being a freak will be healtheir and less inbred
>>2014471
Yes, I would say at minimum make sure they do eye and hip tests on both parents. A BYB could be producing dogs with health issues, but a breeder shouldn't be breeding dogs unless they know they are healthy.
This should be helpful http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/rough-collie/
Rough collies were fucked by popularity back in the time of lassie. They got fucked bad
>>2012698
> not going to a greyhound rescue centre and getting a two year old slow greyhound somebody bought to race.
>>2014477
I perfer smooth collies.
>>2014470
>more to it than reviews and ribbons
As a potential consumer of a puppy product, what more should there be? I avoid the obvious horrorshows like pugs, bullys, or g-shepards of course, but all breeders seem to be selling the ribbon wall. As has been mentioned inbreeding is the whole point of purebreeding, the "pure" as it were, but how much is too much and how do I tell? Are there any breeders around who follow the pups all the way to end of life, then make hard decisions based on that? Seems the obvious policy to me, but it would require a (human) lifetime of patience and I don't see it anywhere.
Pic related: does anyone care when and how this dog dies, or just what it looks like now?
>>2014473
>special home that can take care of said condition
I'm sure folks are just lining up for that responsibility!
>>2014673
>Are there any breeders around who follow the pups all the way to end of life, then make hard decisions based on that?
Many do in the case of epilepsy. That's the only thing I've ever heard of specifically.
Op here. Just wanted to give you guys an update
Finally came across an affordable and adorable Maltese/poodle. Just happened to be on Craigslist right as it was posted. $250. It's an amazing puppy so far I love him.
>>2015525
You fucked up.
>>2015527
oh boy here we go. should i even ask?
>>2015528
...do you actually need to ask?
>>2015548
You bought a backyard bred designer dog. Also, how old was he?
>>2015550
oh you made it sound like i accidentally bought a husky or something. who cares? it's healthy and happy
he's 8 weeks
>>2015560
Pic with time stamp, or fuck off troll.
>>2015560
>healthy
So far.
>>2014673
>As a potential consumer of a puppy product, what more should there be?
Health, temperament, and the dog's well-being. IMO that's all that really matters, not how many shows it won or what rare color it is. Health beyond 'the puppy isn't deformed right out of the sack' and temperament as in breeding dogs with the correct breed traits. Let's take Labs for example; Labs should not be stranger aggressive or fearful. So breeding parents that are stranger aggressive and fearful can rub off on the puppies, when labs are supposed to be confident and happy-go-lucky. Well-being goes as far as screening potential adopters, having them sign contracts to make sure they won't do something stupid like euthanize the dog for being destructive, and the willingness to take back any of their dogs without questions asked to avoid the dog being abandoned.
Many decent breeders like to keep contact with their dogs throughout their lives. In fact it's usually the owners who end up cutting contact because busy life and all that.
>I'm sure folks are just lining up for that responsibility!
You'd be surprised the amount of people that want a special snowflake dog on top of having a special snowflake dog. These dogs are also cheaper. But as far as I've seen, they've always been given to family and friends.
>>2015560
Healthy out of the womb is not healthy 2 years from now.
>>2015566
what in the actual fuck are you talking about?
>>2015597
Do you not know what a timestamp is?
Write the date and time on a piece of paper, place it next to the pup and take a pic.
It proves you are indeed a shit owner instead of just some troll.
>>2015609
you have to be retarded
>>2015613
Confirmed for troll
Pics or it didn't happen
>>2015597
What we're talking about is our suspicion that you did not actually get an affordable and adorable Maltese/poodle puppy for $250 on CL. Our suspicion that nobody would actually do that, and you are just trolling us. To allay our fears, we ask for a quality image of this supposed puppy in the presence of a cardboard sign bearing the current date and a message like "Hello /an/". I don't feel it an unreasonable request; perhaps that makes me a retard? But then, I didn't get that pup either...
>>2015751
>cardboard
I'd settle for a paper sheet, but that's just me.
>>2012698
Get a dog from a farm. Seriously.
Every dog I've has been from farms, they are usually border collies and ausies and they are really smart. Never been charged more than 200 for these purebred dogs and they are healthy and often have their first set of shots.
Ok, /an/ I have a different approach to this.
Say I were to buy a registered bred dog. Say a BC, yorkshire, or Corgi. How much should one cost from a reliable breeder?
>>2013707
A puppy is kept at a minimum 8 weeks. What the fuck is the breeder doing with the puppy that it costs more than $2000 for it's upbringing? They're hungry for money, fact.
>>2012708
>But I do want a puppy that wasn't a product of a redneck mutt who got out of its yard and got raped by a stray so theres a box of free puppies in front of walmart
Why does it matter, are you one of those people that likes emphasising the fact the dog is a pure? Serious question.
>>2015764
What if OP is a lazy fuck that can't handle those kind of dogs?
This thread is garbage and filled with retards.
Back yard breeders who know what they are doing will pull every trick in the book to sell their shitty animals.
Awards don't mean shit. No one hands out awards for breeding.
>>2012970
The seller told her she was buying a broken dog, but I seriously think this woman damaged the dog on her own.
>>2016340
And you are a retard who can't into simple math.
The cost is comes from DECADES of carefully breeding of dozens of dogs at a time that all need to be fed and interacted with for mental stimulation.
That alone is a full time job plus the cost of toys that are constantly being destroyed.
It also covers the cost of inspections, shots (which are fucking expensive in America you should fucking know this) and food for both a brooding/nursing mother and her pups.
Because of high standards that need to be met by the owners, alot of dogs aren't adopted and need to be cared for which, guess what, costs money.
Byb on the otherhand do none of this.
They are responsible for massive inbred breeds cause they don't have a giant pile of animals to feed.
Most don't get inspections or shots and go for the bare minimum when they do.
And worst of all, in my opinion, alot of them are mentally neglected, locked in a cage for long periods of time with little to no mental stimulation to the point where the pups will grow into autistic(lacking normal dog behaviors or instincts) or possibly even inherently violent dogs.
I mean it's just a fucking dog. Pick the one you want. If you don't like it throw it away/kill it. No one really cares.
But for the love of God stop being stupid.
>>2016453
Next time you go shopping for a dog go take a look at where the dog was raised.
Compare a $2000 dog facility and then compare that to a $400 dog back yard cage.
>>2016459
>Compare it to a compare it to...
Goddamnit
>buying dogs
>>2016453
Fuck off you pretentious cunt
1. You can't confirm that most reputable breeders have been breeding for decades and by doing so, you've only made the margin for being reputable even smaller.
2. Good thing i'm not american then you smug little cunt kek. FYI, even most BYBs give their dogs shots. So there goes that argument down the shitter.
3. "A lot of the dogs aren't adopted, so hurr let me raise the price for muh effort". Fuck out of here with your retarded logic.
4. You suggesting that a lot of bybs have behavioural issues just proves how fucking ignorant and biased you are.
>You are the retard who can't into simple math
Says the retard trying to use math to calculate something largely subjective LOL. Besides, even if you could calculate everything you posted, their estimated value still wouldn't be worth more than $2000.
You must be a breeder, judging by your entire autistic post. Have fun being outsourced.
>>2012698
Just ask a staff member at the shelter what their favorite dog is with the traits you want. Worked great for me
>>2012713
Dogs like that will be inbred as fuck.
>>2016646
Mine isn't.
>>2016666
Post the kennel name.
>>2016668
http://goochbordercollies.com
>>2016503
Not who you're replying to but I had a thought here that I feel follows what you're saying.
If price were about recouping costs then the only changing factor in price would be food expenses based upon size and at a puppy's stage the difference wouldn't be very big. This is not the case however because even with close breeds such as a cardigan and pembroke corgi prices vary roughly by $700.
>>2017059
the anon above just doesn't like to admit that breeding dogs is big money. Pretty much pure profit.
She goes on about things like shots, which a breeder buys wholesale and administers themselves. Or vet visits, which let's face it, no breeder is going to do except in the event of an emergency. Genetic screening, which is undoubtedly expensive but quickly pays for itself when you realize each screened parent is probably spitting out close to 100 pups over their lifetime.
I doubt breeding dogs is actually worth the amount of time people put into it, but to pretend they don't make any money is silly.
>>2017062
I think we are in the same sheet of music then.
I wonder how they actually go about pricing then. I mean for certain popular common breeds, say a GSD, I can see them simply contacting another breeder and see what they're selling them for and copy it. But for less common dogs that aren't available year round or in every state/province I see all across the board.
I'm now just curious about what they base it on when the thought of being fair (don't know if that's the right word) would dictate they would be grouped pretty close together.
>>2017070
I'd guess it's like any biz.
If the dogs are selling fast you raise the price.
If nobody's buying you lower it.
I doubt a fair price is actually a concern. Fair is pretty subjective. If they're making, say, $1k per dog they're making less than minimum wage. But then if they're selling 50 dogs a year they're making $50k doing something they'd probably do for free.
>>2017075
Yeah, started crunching numbers there...
If someone had one breeding pair in the long end of about 70 days for pregnancy, plus time with the pups of 8 weeks, and they were really just horrible people doing back to back pregnancies it wouldn't be worth it to pretend to chase money. One would want at least 3 pairs, rotate pregnancies year round, and even then it would take some years to make it decently profitable.
Hmm... never played the devil's advocate in that topic until just now. Interesting .
>>2017062
>things like shots, which a breeder buys wholesale and administers themselves.
Good breeder have a vet acminister shots. Why? Because then there is a record of the shots actually being given. There is a record of someone else seeing the pups and agreeing they are healthy. Anyone can say they gave the shots. Anyone can say the pups are healthy.
>Or vet visits, which let's face it, no breeder is going to do except in the event of an emergency.
You are so very wrong. When you have that much time and money invested in a dog you take good care of it. Every ear infection and minor limp is tended too. You don't want your dog to go blind in one eye, so every squint ends in a vet visit.
>Genetic screening, which is undoubtedly expensive but quickly pays for itself
Many health tests are done in a yearly basis. They are expensive to perform and often must be done by a vet specialist. Each test is 500-1,000$. Most breeds are tested for multiple things a year.
>when you realize each screened parent is probably spitting out close to 100 pups over their lifetime.
Now you are really reaching. Good breeders just don't do that. Most females are allowed to have 2-3 litters in her lifetime.
>>2017078
>>2017075
>>2017070
>>2017062
>>2017059
Sorry if this sounds rude, but you guys are looking at this completely wrong. Good breeders don't breed dogs with the intent of makiing money, and they certainly don't breed dogs like they are crops. They breed because they love the breed and either want to continue it's lineage, or improve the breed.
>>2017157
This anon broke it down exactly.
>>2012698
it's not always. i got a purebred registered shar-pei for $900 from a reputable 25+ year breeder. just got to do research to find a good one for a reasonable price.
>>2017162
>Good breeders don't breed dogs with the intent of making money
>Price the dogs at over $2000
Pick one. That recouping costs excuse is bullshit and you all know it. Reputable breeders in my area sell their dogs at $950 or a little over $1000 depending on breed.
>>2017157
>Each test is 500-1000$
1. OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) – x-rays of hips and elbows to ensure there is no hip dysplasia of the ***** you want to breed - $160.00 CDN + another $35.00 USD to have the results registered with OFA = $210.00 CDN.
2. Thyroid test : to determine if the ***** has a thyroid problem or not. Cost is approximately $ 85.00 CDN.
3. vWD DNA testing through VetGen – to determine if the dog has a blood clotting disease or disorder. The results of the tests are either : Clear, Carrier, or Affected. Cost is $140.00 USD or $170.00 CDN. This is the ONLY DNA definitive test available.
4. CERF testing – to determine if there are any inherent eye disorders. Cost is approximately $50.00 CDN.
5. DCM testing - costs vary depending on what test is used. You can have a dog holter monitor tested, an EKG done, a Cardiac Ultrasound done by a certified canine Cardiologist. The costs will vary from $50.00 to $500.00 CDN. The problem with testing for this is that the test is only good for the moment it is done. In other words, there is and are no definitive DNA testing available for detecting heart problems at this time.
6. Brucellosis test: Cost $85.00 - $100.00 CDN
>tl;dr you're a fucking liar trying to validate pricing puppies over $2000 like a fucking jew.
Byb's have more decency than scum bags like you.
>>2017174
I don't know of any breeders selling pet quality pups for 2,000$. The only exception I can think of is a pup from a super rare breed. Breeders may sell show prospects for that much. But those dogs are older and have more invested in them.
>>2017181
You didn't factor in the cost of the vet visit, seeing a specialist, and the travel to those specialists.
>>2017185
I highly doubt those guys are breeders, or have any experience showing and breeding. I do.
>>2017188
Wow an extra $60 which is never added to the vet bill anyways unless you're literally just going for a consultation and simple checkup.
>Including the costs of travel and gas
You're really grasping at straws here now damn
>>2017191
What would you say is a reasonable price range depending on the breed then? Around 1000$ right?
>>2017195
If people were responsible in the first place, full blooded dogs would be a lot more common and cheaper. Fix your dogs. Pick their partners.
I'll tell you a story, though, about my experience with a high end breeder.
- Great Pyrenees, $1,200
- 100% full blooded, verified by me personal through Wisdom Panel 3.0 (lol-novelty, I know)
- AKC registered, full paperwork
- Met both dog's parents. Allowed to spend a few hours with dog's family unsupervised.
- Arranged to return once a week to allow puppy to visit parents and siblings for socialization/learning (like gently to bite)
-Dog spent first 3 months of its life indoors, around humans and children, in the primary family dwelling.
- First 3 rounds of shots/deworming were done, with paperwork provided.
- Breeder wanted to ensure there were no complications in the dog's growth, so she said she'd pay for the spay if I waited until the dog was over a year old.
- Offered to pay to remove any of the 6 declaws that pose a hazard to her health/safety at the same time as the spay (too small to see problem ones as a puppy)
- Gave me a copy of her published book on Great Pyrs, which I thought was a hilariously nice touch.
... 3 months ago, she payed for the spay and rear double-declaws to be removed since they were very dangly and had a good chance of getting caught on something. She was very happy to pay and see the puppy again (80lbs at the time). She wanted pictures taken with her.
She never asked for my criminal record or to see my house, and took me at my word. But, this woman cared about that dog. I imagine if I had an emergency come up, she would jump at the chance to take the dog back into her care.
Anyway, point being, a BYB Great Pyr is about $300. It'll probably be 6 weeks old or less, all spent living outside away from humans, and you get it with no shots, dubious bloodline, and the seller will want nothing to do with you again.
For me, breeders are the way to go.
>>2017192
When I had an EKG done of my bitches heart it cost almost 1,000$ total. I had to wait for the specialist to come into town, make the appointment (which included the visit cost, which was more than 60$), then I had to pay the canine cardiologist for her time, and pay for the test itself.
If I had to travel to get the test done (which is not uncommon, a friend traveled four hours one way to see a specialist) that would drive up the cost as well. In total, getting my bitches heart tested cost 950$.
>>2017195
800-1,200$.
>>2012698
OP as a fellow poorfag, we can barely take care of ourselves much less an animal(properly).
The prices are the way they are because they want the best for that dog and want to make sure you can not only afford to take care of it, but be willing to(dem home inspections).
Stop crying.
>>2016453
>If you don't like it throw it away/kill it. No one really cares.
It amazes me how anyone can be this fucking autistic.
>>2017209
>my pet needed something
>I'm going to charge the people who buy her offspring for it.
>>2017303
they aren't pets though.
they're livestock and the owner runs them like a business.
it's actually pretty funny how she's bitching about a $1000 dollar business expense on an animal that can turn out tens of thousands of dollars a year.
>>2017181
What happens to the dogs that fail the tests????
>>2017324
They're food for the better, superior, purer dogs, duh.
>>2017313
And I'm sorry if I'm not understanding correctly but if his bitch has heart issues wouldn't that he something she passes on to the litter and this make the cost go down because of quality?
>>2017209
$800-1200 is definitely reasonable, unlike those stupid idiots that think a breeder selling their dogs for $2000 is not in it for the money.
>>2017352
>unlike those stupid idiots that think a breeder selling their dogs for $2000 is not in it for the money.
Not even considering the quality of the dog itself, the labor involved in raising a newborn puppy for 8 weeks is absolutely disgusting unless they're all left outside in the elements like most backyard breeders do. Having to wake up 3 times in the middle of the night, then every morning at 5am and spend 2 hours mopping and cleaning shit and piss off cages/kennels/playpens/toys/blankets/etc every fucking day ... yeah, I'd be charging $1000 a pop, too.
Been there. Never doing it again. I lost 35lbs just raising a puppy from up to 10 weeks because I had to constantly monitor them to rush and drag them outside every time they started to squat (or every 30 minutes, whichever came first). I didn't have time to cook and eat meals because I had to focus on them. To keep the house sanitary, and to get their housebreaking off to a good start. It's seriously not funny.
It eased up around 3 months. At 5 months, things were pretty much back to normal with the help of a nice crate and playpen.
>>2017324
Breeders don't use them to breed I guess?
>>2017808
Unless the pups have been separated from their mother, for what reason would you need to be waking up 3 times in the night and again at 5am????
>At 5 months, things were pretty much back to normal
Oh fuck, i can't wait for that day with my pup
>>2017352
certain breeds cost more to breed, like bulldogs. hence the high price tag
>>2018184
I don't know many, if any, reputable breeders that would choose to breed such unhealthy breeds to begin with. As an example, I'm sure 90% of pug breeders are in it because of the popularity and $$$.
>>2012698
I got my purebreed KC registered lab for £450 from a breeder
Papers checked out
Vet records were fine, had his first jags and worm/fleeing, and no health problems
Even gave me a couple bags of food too
Is this overpricing just an american thing? (I live in Scotland)
>>2018364
I know a pug breeder who has a three year waiting list because her pugs are as healthy as pugs can possibly be.
>>2016433
Because a dog with documentation is a dog with less risk of surprise diseases thanks to shitty genetics. A purebreed dog means you have a narrow field of problems to be proactive about and you don't get blindsided by something later.
>>2020273
but they have a higher likely hood of getting them at a younger age
>>2020273
Pure bullshit.
It's purebreed dogs that have all of these genetic disorders. Mongrels tend to be far more hardy and have fewer problems because problem genes are usually recessive and are cancelled by the mixing.
>>2020315
Do you think this UCDavis study is pure bullshit?
>http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/07/05/pet-genetic-disorders.aspx
The records of over 90,000 purebred and mixed breed dogs that had been patients at the university’s veterinary medical teaching hospital between 1995 and 2010. Designer dogs were included in the study, since crossbreeding is presumed to reduce or eliminate genetic disorders like hypothyroidism, epilepsy, hip dysplasia and cancer. Of the 90,000 records reviewed, 27,254 involved dogs with at least one of 24 genetic disorders, including various types of cancers, heart disease, endocrine system dysfunction, orthopedic conditions, allergies, bloat, cataracts, eye lens problems, epilepsy and liver disease. According to the study, which was published in the June 1, 2013 edition of the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association1, the prevalence of 13 of the 24 genetic disorders was about the same for purebreds as mixed breeds. Some of those disorders were hip dysplasia, hyper- and hypoadrenocorticism, cancers, lens luxation and patellar luxation. Ten conditions were found more frequently among purebred dogs, including dilated cardiomyopathy, elbow dysplasia, cataracts, and hypothyroidism. One disorder was actually more common in mixed-breeds – cranial cruciate ligament ruptures.
>>2020410
>dogs that had been patients
I struggle to think of a more biased way to select.
>>2020412
They reviewed 90,000 vet records. How large of a sample did you want them to take?!?!
>>2012698
simply put if you arnt willing to cough up the dough now you are not ready for a dog. its a big responsibility that will cost you a decent amount of money in the long run, including general care, medical etc etc.
>>2020412
Biased against purebreds, maybe. Purebred dog owners are much more likely to take their dogs to the vet than mixed breed dog owners.
>>2020447
given that dogs that go to the vet are more likely to be have health problems (seems reasonable to me) and that purebreds are more likely to go to the vet regardless of health (you said it) that sample would actually be biased IN FAVOR of purebreds.
>>2020447
>Purebred dog owners are much more likely to take their dogs to the vet than mixed breed dog owners
[citation needed]
>>2020410
>ten were more common among purebred dogs
>one was more common in mutts
how is this supposed to imply purebreds are healthier?
>>2020482
>how is this supposed to imply purebreds are healthier?
It wasn't. The point was that a study by a credible source found that health problems occur in mutts and purebreds in about the same amount.
Read the link posted.
>people actually defending paying $2000 for an animal that does nothing but be loyal to you
dog owners ladies and gents
>>2012698
Lmao i got all my dogs for 0 shekels
Both my labs had owners that were no longer able to take care of them
Got both at around 1 yr old.
Oldest is 15 and other is 13
Mom was jogging with a friend and this little 7 month old beagle came walking up to her scared because he ran away from his redneck owners after being shot in the ear with a pellet gun (it's still in there) hes 6 now. Pretty much 3 pure bread doges ABSOLUTLEY FREE.
Btw anon get a beagle you wont ragret it.
>>2020273
Not true my pure bread american kennel club lab is one of the most autistic creatures I've ever come in contact with but he is the greatest and super nice. Hes our only dog who suffers from seizures and hip problems. The 2 others have no major medical conditions at all.
>>2020528
Did you get him from a reputable breeder that does all the necessary health testing? No? The shut up. The only reason some hereditary illnesses still exist in purebreds is because idiots like you will buy any cheap dog they can find, from any idiot BYB that has pups.
>>2020523
Well, how much would you pay for a woman to be loyal to you?
>>2020537
>pure bred dogs are more prone to genetic conditions
Nuh uh, not if they're from good breeders
>I got a dog from a proper breeder, still had tons of issues
Obviously not a REAL good breeder!
>>2020541
Exactly.
>>2020541
>Obviously not a REAL good breeder!
>no true Scotsman would!
>>2016296
No one can answer this without saying they're breeding for quite a large profit .
>>2020647
Breeding dogs properly is expensive.
Rad the thread.
>>2016296
Just look up some breeders near your area, dude. Email them and ask what their general price is if it doesn't say on their website.
The easiest way to find breeders is by going to CKC (if you're Canadian) or AKC (if you're from the US) and searching up breeders from there.
Oh, don't get Canadian Kennel Club confused with the Continental Kennel Club, Canadian is much more reliable and safe.
>>2012698
I hate snobish faggots like you, what the fuck is wrong with mutts?
>muh breed
>>2020276
>>2020315
>>2020528
In all honesty, it really depends on the breeder.
BYBs can be seen as "registered breeders" which is what leads to all of those genetic problems. BYBs don't take the effort to do a background check on the parents to make sure they're unrelated, and they don't do health tests on their dogs. They do it for money.
When you go to a more reputable breeder, they have the health tests (hip dysplasia for ex,) done, the background checks, the extra effort to make sure that the puppies will be healthy. They wait a couple years before breeding their dog because they HAVE to, just in case that their future bitch develops and problems.
And not all mutts are healthy either. Sure if you cross an australian cattle dog with a border collie and Foxhound, you could have the healthiest dog, but there are thousands of different kinds of mutts out there.
dachund crossed with pug would be a train wreck. Bull dog crossed with maltese would be thousands of dollars in vet bills.
It just depends. You guys can have awesome dogs or health ridden dogs regardless of breed.
For another example, the Shiba Inu used to be very prone to crooked/knocked knees. But due to proper pure breeding and breeding for the best attributes, it's a very uncommon thing now in the breed.
Are shelters in America that bad seeing how people here are actively against adopting?
Do dogs in shelters of the land of the free even get taken out and make sure they stay stimulated or are they left to rot in cages all day?
Please don't tell me it's the latter, please.
>>2012708
Rednecks own hunting dogs which are usually some of the best dogs you can find.
Making yourself look pretty dumb here.
>>2020669
Source? Because many of the cur hunting dogs I've met hate strangers, are very anti-social even with their owners, are not house trained and often never lived in a house
>>2020667
It depends on the shelter. Ones I've seen they get taken on walks unless the court deemed them dangerous. A lot of them get put down, and I'd bet a lot of that has to do with the same arrogant attitude like that displayed ITT. Pet overpopulation is rampant across North America, and I think in the US only half of the dogs that enter a shelter will leave
>>2020685
Fuck man.
Here in Europe shelters are like light years ahead in terms of organizations and care of dogs.
>>2020660
You're still not putting a pricetag on them.
>>2014673
>isthishealthy.png
What a magnificient animal.
It looks like it was born to kill and fuck.
>>2020779
I'm not going to spell it out for you because you are too lazy to read the thread.
I just got a catahoula cur pup from my shelter today
>>2020773
the U.K. euthanizes roughly half the dogs they intake as well, it's really not that much better. the RSPCA took some heat for it since they were misleading in their numbers
but it's also a direct result of Americans getting so far up their own asses about breed. overseas has this issue too, considering they just euthanize all pitbulls yet their bite numbers haven't gone down and their numbers in shelters hasn't gone down either
>>2021640
I'm not really talking about euthansia here, it's still practiced in many parts of Europe.
No I just mean overall organization and infrastructures.
>>2022067
>organization and infrastructures
depends where you go. county shelters in more conservative and trashy areas typically don't keep their animals as better condition as others. then there's many that are absolutely wonderful, considering the work they have to do. I've worked in both settings before, and location really is key
