Advice on the best way to go about buying dogs from breeders? Using the various pet sites I get a very distinct scammer vibe from every "breeder" I've talked to.
They all send these robot responses asking a bunch of questions about my intent for the dog. And all of the pictures are stock photos that are used all over the web.
I know this is Craigslist so I'm going to get a lot of "*meme arrow* Craigslist" replies. But I get the same responses from other sites
>>1996379
if you're going to buy an unhealth tested puppy then you might as well adopt one
Where are you located? Lots of 'pet sites' are puppy wholesalers thinly disguised as real people to keep people from frothing at the mouth about puppy mills.
Contact actual breeders directly. Many kennels have websites.
>>1996377
Look up reputable breed clubs and their breeder lists.
>>1996378
>$300
sign of a BYB. you're going to have to pay significantly more for a properly bred dog. close to $1000 for many meme breeds
>>1996382
How do you know if it is? A form signed by a vet?
>>1996377
You can also find breeders at dog shows
>>1996391
not just a vet, but the on-paper results proving the parents have been genetically tested for diseases common for that breed. ask to see them in person. if they refuse then find a new breeder
>>1996377
What breed are you looking for?
Go to dog shows of that specific breed (they are usually free and you get to pet a ton of dogs) and ask the handlers and owners of the show dogs that you like where they got their dog from and where they would recommend. Or visit various Kennel Club sites that recognize that breed for a list of breeders. From there, you want to visit the puppies at THEIR HOME and see the surroundings. The puppies should be in the house, not in a shed or garage or outside, and in a clean, closed off area (assuming they are very young) big enough for all of them and momma. Mother should definitely be present, and they should have a picture of the stud if not on premises. Look for issues in these dogs (you will have to do research on your breed to know what to look out for) including lack of care (emaciated, long claws, dirty ears etc), ask about aggression in both parents towards people and dogs and other animals, and make sure the mother is friendly with strangers. Make sure the puppies all look healthy and active. Ask for health tests on both parents (pups are probably too young for health tests). Do not take 'this is a healthy breed/mutt they don't need health tests' bullshit as an excuse; there are a set of health tests that every breeding dog should have that includes things like their hip scores and eyes and general structure. Never take 'no health tests' as an answer, ever. Any breeder worth their salt should have a health and temperament guarantee, this is extremely important; this right here is what you are paying thousands for. You are paying for a healthy dog that has the temperament of the breed you've sought. The health guarantee should cover ALL genetic (ie breeding) related health problems, insuring that you get a healthy puppy or your money back, or a new puppy. And the temperament guarantee simply states that your dog will not come home 'out of the box' aggressive or timid or whatever quality your breed shouldn't posses.
>>1996383
Central California
>>1996387
That's fucking nuts.
Other than the moral implications, what's the difference between BYBs and "real breeders"?
I'm genuinely interested in getting into quality canines but I have a hard time believing there is no way to get an English bulldog or a little puffball dog for less than $1000.
Why is there no middle ground between shelter mutts and purebred dogs that cost as much as a used car
>>1996394
I'm looking for an English bulldog or some other kind of fat ugly slobbery dog for me and a Pomeranian or some other kind of puffy white puppy for my wife. Not necessarily both at the same time.
I never thought about dog shows. I'll have to see where they have them around here thanks.
>>1996395
because BYBs are known health ticking time bombs since they're (inbred) genetic messes. you're putting money into a culture that values money over an animal's health. plus they just produce and sell as many puppies as possible
if you don't want to pay for a properly bred dog at least adopt one. bulldogs and "puffballs" are so popular that people get them on a whim then they dump them at a shelters. anything is better than supporting the practice of backyard breeding, which is why shelters are full of dogs in the first place
plus paying money for someone to breed a bulldog is especially terrible
It's really important to visit the breeder in person and see the facilities, meet the pups and the parents. It will be abundantly clear when you are there whether it is a professional operational or a nickel and dime lol i had two dogs so i bred them type deal.
>>1996403
Adoption isn't really an option where I live. It's all pit bulls and chihuahuas. There are many mixed terriers and other small dogs but nothing I'm looking for.
Never seen an English bulldog or a small toy dog in any of the local shelters.
>>1996407
have you tried petfinder or looking for breed specific rescues?
>>1996394
Continued
The temperament guarantee will not last very long, because you can fuck a dog's temperament up very easily and very quickly as a puppy. It's just there to say they are not selling you a puppy that acts very aggressive/timid. The health guarantee should last many years, until the dog is a senior or for the animal's whole life. Think about it, if a health guarantee only lasts a year, you are giving the dog before it's even done growing to show signs of ailments like failing hips, blindness, epilepsy, etc. It is very rare for breed specific health issues to happen before a year, and it would only give you 10 months or less to diagnose it. Now I know people say they don't care about the guarantees because they will still love their sick dog, which is perfect. But the guarantee is more of a way for you to know that these breeders have incentive to give out healthy, happy dogs. What would keep someone, besides the kindness of their heart, to breed unhealthy and aggressive dogs? Well, a contract stating they will give you your money back, pay for the vet bills, give you a new, free puppy, etc is a good way to know that someone is serious about their pups. Breeders must keep their pups for the bare minimum of 8 weeks, it is illegal to sell a dog younger than that! 10-12 weeks is very common, don't be too upset if they keep the puppy longer because that means the dog will have better manners, bite inhibition, and may even know commands and be a little house trained. Any good breeder sends their pups home with their first set of shots at least (assuming 8 weeks old) and should always be up to date on their shots once ready to go home. Don't let them pull the bullshit 'we don't believe in shots', because you must have your dog registered in the US and for it to be registered it MUST have rabies shots, and it's first Distemper and Parvo (usually a combo vaccine) shot.
>>1996412
Continued
Your breeder will also have you sign a contract; don't get too overwhelmed because it's really just in the best interest for the puppy. It should have at least a part where you agree to fix the animal after X age, but may also have something like you can't give the animal to a family or friend, they will have to take it, and/or they will relinquish the animal if needs are not properly met. That sort of stuff. Any breeder worth it's salt will take their animal back, no questions asked. A breeder should love all of their puppies and not want to see one go to a shelter or get abandoned or be euthanized. That is probably one of the best features of a good breeder. If you ever have any problems or questions regarding your dog, the breed, or just need help with training or whatever, your breeder will be more than happy to help you and give you valuable information. They are like a 24/7 doggie help desk, and a good breeder has a lot of experience under their belt and a lot of connections if you need a reliable dog walker or dog groomer or vet.
With all that, and the prices involved in reputably breeding (it's a lot more than you'd think, http://omalmalamutes.com/omal/littercost.htm) you are looking at spending close to a grand or more, dependent of course on the breed. Feel free to ask questions, I can try to point you into the right direction if you'd like to post some vague information.
If you can't save up 1000 bucks you simply can't afford and shouldn't have a dog. I don't mean you should have to spend that by all means adopt a dog for less but any dog can have some minor fuck up and you need to spend 500+ at a vet and other expenses as well. If the idea of saving 1k buttblasts you, don't get a dog. Yeah, you can buy a car for 1k but it will be a shitty one and you will have this dog for up to 15 years, far longer than you could drive that shit bucket car. This 300 dollars you're going to spend on one byb monster to save 700 bucks is going to cost you more in the long run when you have to treat your byb monsters epilepsy or early arthritis or have hip surgery at age 3. It's not the thing to cut corners on. Save the money or take the time to wait for dog to go up for adoption. Use petfinder and breed specific rescues. Be willing to drive a little bit to go get it.
>>1996395
You aren't going to find an english bulldog for under 1k. They have to give birth by c-section, which is pricey on top of all the inherent health condidtions. There are plenty of fatass mutts out there, go check out your local animal control/shelter.
>>1996468
I didn't know that. It makes sense though
I assumed you could get most breeds of dog for reasonable prices but there was something special about "pure breeds" that make them even better.
I didn't even know until I started this search two weeks ago that there aren't even stores that sell dogs anywhere.
>>1996638
There are like more than a half dozen "Bulldog"s. English/British, American, French, and Olde blah blah so it is really probably best to be specific in this case.
>>1996689
The breed is called the Bulldog.
Calling a breed by its proper name is as specific as it gets.
Buy a mutt. Breeders are perpetuating a problem of a dwindling gene pool and further and further destroying dog breeds from being able to function as animals. Especially bulldogs. Get a mutt instead. They're amazing and they will love you forever. Not to mention you won't have to spend the rest of the next 12 years cleaning out mold and bacteria from your dog's facefolds or wondering if he's going to asphyxiate himself or choke to death on food because his face has been bred to a level where it's almost impossible for him to exist comfortably.
>>1996840
>Breeders are perpetuating a problem of a dwindling gene pool and further and further destroying dog breeds
Bad breeders, yes.
Breeders in general, no.
>>1996858
All breeders. Dog breeding has long become a tradition of genetically altering traits in dogs to be 'more desirable' and in doing so has destroyed many dog breeds and led them down a path to many anatomical health problems that could be 'fixed' by removing the 'pure breed' standard and responsibly breeding in new blood and genetics. If you don't want to take my word for it do your own research. Many dog breeds have become so altered by pure bred breeding for traits that their new anatomical structure is detrimental to survival and health. Especially in regards to pugs, bull dogs, german shepherds, bull terriers, dachshunds, boxers, bassets, and bernards.
Irresponsible breeding is bad from anyone but 'good' breeders are still adding to the problem. The only way to start to fix these breeds to help them from either dying out due to dwindling gene pools (Genetic Erosion), anatomical defects (Bulldogs can not mate or birth pups unaided), or genetic diseases (becoming more prevalent despite being 'bred out' thanks to the decrease in the genetic gene pool and genetic similarity among canines) is to start reintroducing them to other gene pools that benefit both breeds, or to return to responsible mutt breeding after genetic testing of both parents. Not to be confused with designer cross breeding which is no more helpful than purebreeding in the long run.
>>1996865
As a dog breeder myself, I am very familiar with what it takes to breed healthy dogs.
I agree that some breeds are inheritentry unhealthy, and the standards they are bred to is not healthy. But that is just a handful of breeds out of of hundreds of breeds.
By saying ALL pure breeds are less healthy, or a genetic mess is painting with too broad a brush.
There are many breeds that are healthy.
There are many breeders that put the health of their dogs first.
>>1996858
>Breeders in general, no.
actually, yes. the world is full of shitty BYBs. only a very small hand full breed responsibly
>>1996917
Dogs from good breeders do not show up in shelters often. They breed few litters and the majority of those dogs never reproduce.
BYBs and shitty owners are the problem, not good breeders.
>>1996928
>Dogs from good breeders do not show up in shelters often
most reputable breeders will take their dogs back if you no longer want them.
they hardly ever end up in shelters due to that.
>>1996931
why are you still here?
>>1996928
but acting like that's the norm and that there aren't an incredibly minuscule amount of the breeders out there like that is completely unrealistic
>>1996990
It's not a minute amount. And even if it was the two groups should not be lumped together.
>>1996990
comparing bybs to actual breeders is like comparing bike to motor sports.
There's some good information in this thread >>1996898
