how the fuck do i trill my rs. i want to learn russian but that r completly fucks me and i dont want to fake it all the time by tapping my tongue,
I had this problem with Russian too. Basically, first you need to throw out all the fucking advice people have written elsewhere online. "Just say POT OF TEA really fast!" That shit is literally useless.
You know how, when your lips are closed but relaxed, with no tension in the muscles, if you suddenly blow air out really hard, they kind of flap? It makes that BRRRRRR sound you make when you're cold? People sometimes make a similar sound when they puff out a sudden breath of air when they're frustrated or thinking. You've done that before, right? Let me know if you haven't.
To roll your Rs you basically have to do that, but with your tongue. Don't touch the roof of your mouth. Don't touch your teeth. Slightly part your lips and teeth -- your tongue should be in a pretty neutral, almost resting position. Ideally you'll have some muscle tension in the 'base' of your tongue but none in the tip. If you're having trouble doing that but you're not sure what it feels like, then it's better to just settle for having a completely relaxed tongue, with no muscle tension whatsoever. Then just blow air out, really, really hard. You'll probably spit a lot the first time. That's OK.
What you want is NOT a particular flip of your tongue. It is NOT a muscular motion. You just want to blow air past your tongue so hard that the tip flaps, like a sheet snapping in the wind. It is not a subtle sound. If you're doing it right, your vision will literally jump and vibrate a little. If air just glides over your tongue, then try to raise it slightly off the floor of your mouth (it still should be below the level of your upper teeth.) When you raise it try to keep it held quite loose, not tight and rigid.
Report back, let me know if you're able to vibrate your tongue at all in a way that feels 'new' to you.
>>16612150
>Not OP
I can get this to work, and I actually vibrate my tongue like this often out of boredom. I simply notice I have to pause speaking to "get ready" with my tongue to do it. Does it eventually come naturally, or you just get better at it?
>>16612150
K, thanks a lot. I can make my tongue vibrate but i think I need way too much air or pressure for it, you know? If there is a vocal before the r I'm struggling hard.
>>16612173
It doesn't come naturally. It takes time to be able to do it quickly, takes time to consistently remember to voice the trill (so it sounds like an R and not just staccato spurts of air; think of the difference between the f and v sounds) and even more time to distinguish between the tap and trill quickly enough that the appropriate one to use comes naturally. It's an acquired skillset and struggling with it is one of the most common speech impediments not just in Russia, but in most (probably in all) cultures that speak a language with trilled letters.
It took me a good half-year to figure out how to do it on my own after picking up Russian, and a good year after that before I was actually incorporating it into my speech instead of just pussying out and using the tap every time.
>>16612187
If you're making your tongue vibrate then you've surmounted the hardest hurdle. Most people who are never able to roll their Rs aren't even able to vibrate their tongues, simply because they don't know how it feels and it's not in their muscle memory. This is similar to how some people aren't able to raise one eyebrow without raising the other; learning how to activate only one set of facial muscles like that can take years, but once you have that initial breakthrough you know what it feels like and you can replicate it. All you need now is time and practice. Practice constantly and shamelessly.
True story: after I figured it out the first time, I took my dog for a walk and literally just wandered around the neighborhood repeating to myself "My name is VladimiRRRR Putin, pRRResident of RRRussia."
Also, I will mention that Russians are not picky people when it comes to people mangling their language. They're not like French people (or at least like Parisians.) Just doing the tap puts you well ahead of your peers if you're an American, and Russians tend to be so boggled when they find a foreigner (not from one of their former satellite countries), especially an Anglo, who speaks they're language that they'll overlook any mistakes you make. And of course they believe their language is the most difficult in the whole wide world, just like Japanese, Chinese, Arabic and English speakers, so they'll be quite impressed that you managed to learn it at all. Russians tend not to be great language learners themselves, just culturally. They're like Americans in that respect. Just a couple words of encouragement.
>>16612236
kek, now im trying to raise just one eyebrow
>>16612268
Protip: the muscles you want are farther over to the side than you think. More towards the end of the eyebrow. The first time I did it I could feel the skin all over the whole left side of my head being tugged slightly, though I eventually got a little more control.
No real use for that skill except for frustrating people who can't do it, which I do, gleefully.
Saging this post since I'm not really saying anything worthwhile anymore.
Isn't this mainly genetic? Like how some people just can't roll their tongue into a taquito shape?
>>16612308
Nah, few people can't vibrate their tongue because that thing under your tongue in pic related is too short, but most people just never learned how to do it correctly
>>16612319
dont mind the scar, just took the first image i found
