I need your honest advice.
I own a house and I have a friend that asked me if she could stay at my house (just moved in 3 days ago). She got out of a relationship with a guy she shared an apartment with. I told her she could crash for a week or so until she could figure out where to go. She said she was unsure how long she needed to stay. We came to the agreement before she moved in that she would owe me rent if she stayed longer and discussed the rent, utilities, etc.
Today, I asked her how long she plans on staying. She said, "I don't know. Maybe a month? Two months?" So, I told her I'd like her to sign a rental agreement and her response was, "yeah i could totally help you out with the mortgage, but I could also help around the house, cook, clean. I also still don't know how long I want to stay."
I'm taking this response as if she expects me to let her live here for free solely because we know each other well and we've known one another for a long time. Am I delusional? If she stays longer, I believe she has an obligation to pay me rent. I also believe she has an obligation to let me know exactly what her plans are or make up her mind immediately. I'm not being crazy am i?
A logical part of me is saying that even if I let her stay long term, I'm not guaranteed any rent because of her actions right now. Is my feeling justified?
You should be leary.
I don't think you're ever getting any money from her, but whatever, give her the free week you said you would and deal with it then.
You just got a squatter and she just broke up and moved, just try and relax for a few days.
"We need a rental agreement so that my ass is covered legally, and so that this doesn't turn into a sore topic between us."
Alternatively, she absolutely has to leave before the month is up, because that's the point at which many laws establish a person as a legal resident. That turns "GTFO" into "I need to serve an eviction notice." For that trouble, you might as well have terms by which she lives there.
Honestly I think that the rent issue is not as significant as the residency one. Drop the money question. Just tell her flat out what day she's no longer welcome to stay. Call the police to remove her at that point if you need to. Also start holding onto evidence.
>>16548375
Technically, she's obligated to pay you rent on day 1, its not unreasonable to ask her to pay some rent after a week or 2.
> I also believe she has an obligation to let me know exactly what her plans are or make up her mind immediately. I'm not being crazy am i
That is probably not going to go as smoothly as you want it to. I'm not saying it will definitely take 2+ months but she is in a complicated situation right now.
What you need to do is make it very clear that she is staying an a temporary place.
Also, tell her that helping around the house isin't gonna cut it, she needs to find a way to pay some rent.
Does she have any family that would be willing to take her in?
>>16548382
Good to know I'm not insane. I feel guilty potentially forcing her out so I thought I was over reacting.
>>16548386
That's my plan. My worry is if she will actually leave.
>>16548390
She's not a hostile person. She was just really spoiled growing up and told that she can do no wrong so she subconsciously thinks she's owed something when she's down.
But you're right. I need to draw the line with her. I'm feeling really sure that I won't even get a penny out of her and she'll be living in my house for free and contributing nothing.
>>16548403
You make a good point. She has a lot going on right now leaving a relationship of 10 years.
And she does have family. She just doesn't want to move in with them because "it is so much drama." The most invalid reason ever because I know her family very well.
>>16548405
>She's not a hostile person. She was just really spoiled growing up and told that she can do no wrong so she subconsciously thinks she's owed something when she's down
That's a person that will probably become hostile as soon as they're denied something that they want.
Not to mention that people get very wound up once they realize that they may be out on the street.
Op here.
I have a really hard time telling her that from this point on I do not trust her to pay rent and that I'd rather have her leave. I've just made up my mind and realized that I'm going to have a squatter here that will do nothing but eat up resources with insufficient contribution.
>>16548410
She has a place to go. She can move back in with her parents at any time. But she would rather not go back to her parents home.
>>16548375
You're in a terrible spot anon. She will continue to dodge issues until you FORCE her to discuss it with you at which points walls will be thrown up and she will play victim and turn it around on you. "God I just got out of a horrible breakup and already you're breathing down my neck for rent! I thought you were a good friend but I guess I was mistaken"
She's going to abuse your hospitality and continue to take advantage of you until she has no other choice.
>>16548405
It's not so much about hostility as it is protecting herself from legal considerations.
1) You do not have your home registered as a rental property. It has not been inspected for that purpose (building and fire codes). You might not even have the right to rent under your local zoning laws, which is uncommon but not unheard of.
2) As mentioned, getting rid of her becomes a lot harder if she establishes residency. She doesn't need to be malicious in order to avail herself to something which affords her time. Eviction typically takes 6-8 weeks.
3) In the meantime, she would have rights as a tenant that deprive you of the freedom to keep your own home as you wish. Temperature too low according to the law? She can force you to turn up the heat. God knows what other stupid laws your municipality has in place regarding tenant's rights.
So really, even beyond the money, you need to protect yourself from The Man. Don't even bring up money again. Give her to the end of the week and then tell her it's time to go.
>>16548419
This is what I get for helping a friend. I have known her for 10+ years. I never ever would have thought she was like this. When we talked on the phone about her moving in she was more than willing to accept the "stay for a week and anything else you owe me rent".
>>16548422
You're right. Absolutely. I thought I was doing her a huge favor and I can totally see her retaliating in some way or another. Or even blasting me to our friends saying "I've known her for over 10 years, I broke up with my boyfriend and she kicked me out".
>>16548422
I don't even know how to nicely tell her that I want her to leave. I don't want the water works. I don't want the theatrics. What did I get myself into?
>>16548427
One final note: if this does turn into an argument, don't be afraid to whip out "I literally can't do this. It's illegal for me to collect rent from you under the table and there's a mountain of paperwork I have to file before I can legally host a tenant. I can't break the law to give you any more help. You need to leave when the week is up."
>>16548433
I was typing the wording just as you were asking that. See below.
>>16548437
I was going for the tax excuse. If she lives here and contributes nothing and gets her mail sent here she is technically a dependent. My taxes would be fucked.
>>16548445
Thanks for your help. I really appreciate all of it.
>>16548449
>>16548453
Don't go that route. "My taxes would be inconvenienced" is not as direct and obvious as "I will not break the law."
That's really the core position here. You will not break the law to help her when you've already given her a week and she has alternative options.
You also need to steel yourself against the possibility of calling the police. That might have to happen. If you catch yourself needing to repeat the same sentence for the third time, don't. Walk into another room, call the police and tell them that you have an unwelcome guest in the home refusing to leave. She's not going to get arrested. She'll just be escorted out.
>>16548468
I hope it doesn't get there. If hate to lose a friendship. I foresee emotional volatility though. I honestly just want her gone. I'm already tired of her showering 3 times a day.
You make good points. Thank you.
>>16548485
If things come to that point, it's only because she had decided days ago to take you for a ride. That was the moment that the friendship was lost and by her doing at that. Yes, there will be volatility. Dealing with people in that state is part of life. You'll have a stiff drink after she's gone and the stress will fade by the evening.
>>16548487
Whoa. Good point. She's probably already decided that seeing as she hasn't been forward with me about how long she wants to stay. Maybe she is being super manipulative...
>>16548487
Not OP but there's some good advice in this thread, nice to see.
>>16548507
Op here. I am really appreciative of the legitimately good advice.
If only I had asked before I let my friend "rent a room". Hindsight is such an asshole.
Nothing to contribute, just wanted to say I feel sorry you OP...
>>16548525
Heh, thanks. Even that is enough for me right now. I'm losing sleep over this. I knew something was wrong about this the first time she called me. Now I feel taken advantage of by someone I considered a really good friend.
>>16548515
I wouldn't be hard on yourself, you did the right thing by offering to help a friend out, and covered yourself by setting a clause which this girl has effectively broken.
You were fair and responsible but unfortunately unlucky, however as these folks are telling you there is a way to fix it and I have every confidence that someone who was smart enough to think ahead, like you were, will be smart enough to get out it - albeit with the wisdom of some friendly anons.
Let us know how you get on.
>>16548587
Thanks to you and the other anons thag have provided some solid support. I'll follow up with what our conversation looks like tomorrow. I should have been asleep hours ago but this seriously worries me that much.
>>16548595
Keep us updated please.
You know what to do, OP.
>>16548375
You're very reasonable with that OP, don't let people exploit you or your resources under the guise of "C'MON MAYNE WE'RE FRIENDS!!".
Lol, she owes you rent for sure. I say that unless she agrees to sign a contract under your terms don`t even let her in. This ”month or two” might turn into months of agony. Cooking and cleaning don`t cover bills.
>>16548375
"I'm sorry Susan but this is not working out. You can stay another two weeks, but you have to find another place by [date]."
>>16548375
She doesn't have any legal obligations to pay you or what not, contrary to what some people on here have told you.
That doesn't mean you can't make her pay, you can do whatever you wish. Don't want her in your house, make her leave. Want her to pay rent, make her pay, it's your property.
You would absolutely not be entitled if you do ask rent, though, so go ahead.
And ask rent upfront if you do.
>>16548600
I will. I'm having this conversation with her tonight.
>>16548610
I totally know. Just totally can't get myself to tell her to fuck off.
>>16548619
She owes me something more than "oh ill just help around the house". Part of her mindset is like, " well you have so much more than me and you've known me for so long. I'm down on my luck right now and you are obligated to help me." She has a good job, she has money and she has family she could go to if I kick her out. She's just being selfish, honestly.
>>16549028
That's a good starter. I'm going to go off of this. I'm prepared for my friends to think I'm shit for making her leave.
>>16549039
At this point it's not so much money. You friend anons have made me realize I just don't want to live with her. She's been kind of intrusive on my property too, just little things. Its little things adding up. I've got expensive makeup and cheap make up. Expensive shampoo and cheap shampoo. Expensive face wash and cheap face wash. Etc. She's opted to use all the expensive items of mine without asking. And she showers 3 times a day because she says the heating in my house isn't making one room hot enough for her.
"I can let you stay for another X then i'l need rent from then on, but you can't stay forever"
Never let anyone "help out" around the house in exchange for living there, it really does not work, and is really not worth it. You'l get mad at the lack of shit they do and theyl get mad that you don't notice what they do.
Talk to her and explain you can't have her forever, make up excuses if you must, just make it clear that by a certain day she will have to pay, it sounds like she is trying to get away with it and acting stupid on the situation.
>>16549439
It wasn't clear to me until now that I am being used. She knew it was expected of her to pay rent from the beginning now she is trying to slither away from it. Beyond all of this, I feel taken advantage of.
Bump for update
You own a house and you live in it alone, having a friend there with you temporarily is not going to cost you anything besides utilities. Tell her she should pay that while she's here. You are her friend, right. Then don't treat her like a fucking stranger who you charge rent for. If this were your guy friend would you do this? If my friend was out of a place I'd let him crash at my place just fine since it's technically not costing me anything.
Unless she's ugly, then you probably resent the idea of an ugly girl living in your house, someone you have no sexual use for. Or she's hot and doesn't want to fuck you and you're bitter so you're making these jackass decisions
>>16549394
Tell her if she's going to shower that often to use the cheaper stuff because a bottle costs x dollars. It's not a rude request at all, and if she says some bullshit exxuse tell her "either way, I can't have you using it with you going through so much of it so quickly" She should be getting her own shit either way, but that would at least stop that shit.
>>16551328
She's a girl.
Anyway, calmly explain that you'll want rent if she stays over a week.
If it turns into an argument remain calm and cold, whatever she says.
Knowing her for 10 years doesn't indicate how good friends you are, but if she is otherwise a good friend, like the anon said, don't treat her like a stranger. Just communicate how you feel without agressiveness. You're doing her a favor and would like some rules. Not you fucking cunt using my expensive make uo and purposedly nmaking my life hell.
