Tried similar @ /lit but didnt get sth going.
Question is a philosophical one but concerns our lifes and our problems in it deeply; how do we perceive life? How should we perceive life?
Are our paths prescribed? Since our universe is a harmony and has laws, theres no chaos- no randomness- and therefore everything is prescribed- everything has a concrete cause and effect.
On the other hand we have the obvious self-conception, that we HAVE a free will- that we are responsible for our doings- that we can do good, and bad things, and can choose. How does that correlate?
Maybe we are all wrong, trying to change our lifes, and, as brilliantly observable here on /adv, failing to do so since we cant? Respectively we may change but not by our power, so it doesnt even matter how hard we try? All day long we busy ourselves with things we cant change instead of devoting ourselves to the calm satisfication of accepting predetermination as the truth and rest in awe in face of the unseizable miracle of life and universe.
But yet the bible says were gods on earth... that we can sin, therefore CAN decide. If we WOULDNT decide, we shouldnt be responsible for our doings either, right?
So, how can we make those two concepts work together? How do YOU perceive life? If its all predescribed -> Fuck everything? And if we have free will - why dont we all have an awesome life by USING our power of creation?
Id like to read your thoughts!
A good way to ensure that people will answer your question is by making sure your question is concise. Asking only one at a time helps, too.
>>17323373
Life is an illusion, our perceptions and the distinctions we make between things reinforce the illusion.
That we walk distinct paths, is an illusion. There is no free will, only action and reaction in an endless cycle. This is not a deterministic stance though because there is nothing being determined.
Good and bad are the same, all opposites arise together and therefore are the same.
Bible is bullshit.
We can't 'make' anything work. True freedom arises when we shatter all concepts, ideas, perceptions, etc.
fear, poverty and hunger diminish free will and creativity, how can u "be" when you're hungry
people are keeping their mind occupied, and they love it.
>>17323472
If you cant spot the question (which is writen in
the title too) im not sure if you can contribute to
the topic
>>17323373
>Are our paths prescribed? Since our universe is a harmony and has laws, theres no chaos- no randomness- and therefore everything is prescribed- everything has a concrete cause and effect.
In the mists before THE BEGINNING, Fate and Chance cast lots to decide whose the Game should be; and he that won strode through the mists to MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI and said: "Now make gods for Me, for I have won the cast and the Game is to be Mine." Who it was that won the cast, and whether it was Fate or whether Chance that went through the mists before THE BEGINNING to MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI—_none knoweth._
What I'm trying to say is: Chaos is everywhere as well as order. You can't tell one thing from the other.
>>17323501
It makes sense, but whats the reason of having conciousness then?
What keeps you going if you accept that?
How to live then?
>>17323373
I think you are on a good path just judging by the fact that you're asking those questions.
All that I say in this post is my personal opinion. It is all a matter of subjectivity. You may accept it, question it, deny it and find your own truth or untruth. But you probably already know that. If you accept what I say, it will become intersubjectively true. Intersubjectivity is the same thing as objectivity. We can't perceive things objectively because our consciousness and senses are wired in a specific way.
You can read books by Stanislaw Lem, for example Solaris or Fiasko, to expand on this idea. In those books, it is impossible for humans and extraterrestrial intelligences to communicate because we are so fundamentally different.
>>17323574
We don't have consciousness, we are it. Everything is.
>>17323576
Which means, thought further, that by being unable to see the whole picture, we have free will,
by deciding which truth is ours.
>>17323576
If the universe is governed by chance or by determination - no one can tell. But it does not eventually matter.
>>17323596
Yes, exactly. I couldn't have phrased it any better.
We constantly have to remind ourselves that we are the smiths of our own destiny. We can do or not do whatever we want.
If someone is oppressing you, that's only possible because that person chooses to do so, and because you let them oppress you.
If there is love between two people, that can only be if they both choose to love each other.
We are not dust in the wind. We are not corks floating in an ocean. We can choose our own path and memes, social norms, law and coercion only has an effect on you if you let it.
>>17323606
>universe is governed
no
>we control our destinies
we control nothing
At least that's how I see it. If you can back up your claims please do I wouldn't mind feeling like I'm in the driver's seat.
>>17323647
You haven't backed up your claims either, and it does not seem like you understood the post.
You should accept the world view that makes you the happiest and gives you the greatest freedom.
>>17323373
Occam
There are a lot more assumptions when you subscribe to destiny. Randomness/chaos has very few strings attached to it.
>>17324524
Well then contribute that.
>>17323656
">You should accept the world view that makes you the happiest and gives you the greatest freedom."
Thats a practical approach, but wouldnt it be better to KNOW?
Maybe we shouldnt give a fuck, because, since we can have doubts about the truth wether there is destiny or not, were on the safe side if we accept free will and live our lifes to the fullest, because we would be fucked if we dont care but our paths wouldnt be predetermined.
Chaos Magick reporting in
