My wife has gone to taking away food from our son as a form of punishment. I got home from work to hear that he hadn't done the chores correctly (he was supposed to vacuum and clean his bathroom, he at least made an attempt, but it wasn't a good one)
I went downstairs to talk to him, and saw bite marks on one of his school notebooks. He had been eating paper. I asked my wife what was up with that, and she said it probably has to do with him not getting lunch or dinner.
This is insane, right? Like actually insane? This is completely off the wall coming from my wife. She's a stricter mom, but she's fair. But this just isn't right. I immediately grabbed him the vaccum, told him to get to work, and I went out and got him a happy meal, and she met me outside the garage door as I opened it to let me have it. Sure as shit, he got the vacuuming done, and I helped clean his bathroom while he ate.
What do I do about this? Instead of having to have a talk with my son about doing his chores correctly, I may have to have a talk with my wife about how she chooses to punish our kid.
>>17294049
Yes agreed
>>17294049
Yeah, your wife sounds like she has problems. If your son is so hungry that he's trying to eat notebooks, that's a problem. In anything, his punishments should be more normal things like not getting dessert or being sent to his room. How old is your son, by the way?
Yeah, that's not okay. Serious discussion time.
>>17294060
My son is 12. And I can't remember the last time he's had a dessert if I'm being completely honest. We're past that point. My son has behavioral problems. He acts like a 20 year old sometimes. Insanely freakishly smart, but he just doesn't do the things he's told.
Yep, that's fucking insane.
Wait till he tells the kids at school mommy punishes him by denying basic human needs.
My mother raised my younger brother similar to what u mentioned. I luckily grew up with my father since the divorce. But my brother is now a diagnosed sadist due to the mistreatment he's been through
Fuck talking to her, punch her in the fucking uterus and lay down the law on that crazy shit
>>17294066
Yep, that's not good that he's 12 and eating notebooks. Go talk to your wife about this ASAP, you don't want your son doing the same to your grandkids someday.
>>17294049
I wish I had gotten this type of hard treatment. I would probably had ended up much better.
I think its alright and it will surely build character.
>>17294049
>This is insane, right? Like actually insane?
yes, it's actually insane and it's illegal. if you don't play every single card right from minute 1, she will get him. you need the best possible lawyer you can possibly get, yesterday.
your marriage is over. you cannot let this person be involved in raising your son.
>>17294481
>I would probably had ended up much better.
I got this type of hard treatment and I ended up permanently crippled by anxiety and social issues, coupled with unbridled rage that will cause me to kill someone one day.
Fuck you.
>>17294049
cuck
>>17294488
I got the exact opposite of this treatment and I ended up the same as you described.
So...?
Yeah OP, it's insane. Even convicted murderers are allowed food. Let's hope that this is just an isolated case of crazy and that this isn't a sign of more crazy to come.
>>17294481
This type of treatment left me with mild anxiety and depression. No child should be starved out because he didn't vacuum. The fuck is wrong with you dude?
>>17294491
So I would've been an aeronautical engineer one day and you would've still been nothing. Just because my potential was ruined doesn't mean you had any.
>>17294511
Whats going on here.
I am actually studying to become an aeronautical engineer anon.
Is your name also Robert?
>>17294503
Well, as I said, I got the exact opposite, and ended up the same.
>The fuck is wrong with you dude?
Nothing. A careful examination of my life led me to believe that a harder treatment, such as the described in the OP, COULD have yielded a different, possibly better, result.
>>17294049
I'm happy for you and Imma let you finish, but your wife is abusive and psychotic
>>17294516
good luck, I just failed.
I'm extremely intelligent, maybe not even so much as OP's kid if he's "freakish" as described. Treatment of this nature will hit a freakishly smart person ten times harder.
It stops tonight OP.
I remember growing up even when I pulled the most ridiculous fucking shit on my mom there'd always be a hot dinner waiting for me as I crept in my house at like 3 am
Yeah i can get sending him upstairs with a crappy sandwich or something not as tastey as homecooked, or even making him miss a mea completelyl, but two in a day is straight up starving him. Talk to her because that could get abusive fast.
>>17294544
It is abusive. Withholding food from a growing child is child abuse. Period.
what she did is already illegal.
OP should be filing for divorce because no adequate mother would EVER, EVER do this. This signals mental health issues that will only get worse
>>17294550
Or maybe you have mental issues yourself and need to calm down. I sincerely doubt you are a mother, have any experience with parenting, and are qualified to judge what an "adequate" mother is.
>It is abusive. Withholding food from a growing child is child abuse. Period.
No, no period. Your opinion is not a period. It is an opinion. Sending a child to bed without dinner is not illegal, and also incredibly common. Doing so often enough that they are eating paper IS, but that is exactly the problem OP is describing, and not at all the same as sending someone to bed without supper.
Also maybe you should consider never giving "advice" on this board again if you're seriously telling someone to tear apart their and their child's family because of a single issue that can absolutely be resolved with communication. Every family has issues, every family family faces some level of abuse, and nearly none of them should be resolved with divorce.
Please be a troll, if not call the police.
>>17294481
Harsh treatment like this is seriously the reason I can't connect with other people anymore, why I just wallow in depression and self depreciation and self fladulation... I've attempted suicide three times, bounce in and out of bouts of alcoholism, and wonder every morning why I even bother to get out of bed...
it built a lot of character,
>>17294612
I know from experience what this type of abuse yields. I don't need to be a parent. Please don't even try to attempt that bullshit when a good 70% of parents are fucking ass awful at it and fail to even produce kids better and more useful than they were themselves.
>>17294066
I'd have behavioral problems too if my mom had me so hungry I ate fucking notebooks
>>17294649
> I don't need to be a parent.
When you're talking about "adequate mothers" yea you do.
> Please don't even try to attempt that bullshit when a good 70% of parents are fucking ass awful at it and fail to even produce kids better and more useful than they were themselves.
You clearly being a salty little shit just reinforces my point that you should never be giving advice on this board again.
>a single issue that can be easily be remedied with talking
>REEEEEEE DIVORCE HER TEAR YOUR CHILD'S LIFE APART BECAUSE I'M MAD ON THE INTERNET, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT TALKING TO HER ABOUT IT JUST DIVORCE HER, I KNOW BECAUSE I AM ANGRY, THAT MAKES ME RIGHT
>>17294690
Good job, you successfully made the thread about you and what you want to talk about, like the great mother you are, up on 4chan in the AM instead of sleeping so you can take care of your child tomorrow, or learning, or cleaning, or bettering yourself. Sitting on 4chan, because you're a great parent.
Yeah, actually, not having kids gives me a pretty unclouded view of the shit sanctimonious, failure retards like you do. But go ahead and explain why you're on 4chan in the AM when you have a child. I'm sure you have a wonderful explanation.
>>17294049
You need a lawyer.
>>17294481
This is horseshit. I got this type of treatment and more, and it did nothing but make me toxic and disrespectful. It took me a long time on my own after I ran away from home to stop being a completely venomous person, and I was shocked to find out that other people didn't flip their shit when the slightest thing went wrong.
>>17294049
I'm going to assume that you are a real person. Probably a troll, but maybe you're not.
It's too late to step up to your wife, you've already established yourself as a huge pussy. You try to be an "alpha male" now, you're going to get drug into court as being an abusive husband.
My best and most honest advice to you is to just admit that you are a bitch. Just fucking admit it to yourself. You can't stand up to your wife now, it's already too late. Hire a fucking lawyer and get prepared to fight if you honestly care about your son.
I'm not making fun of you, I'm just telling you the truth.
Stop feeding your child gmos. No wonder your wife is stupid. Only morons eat mcdonolds.
Organic or die, ya fuckin cunt. Smack your stupid girlfriend for me. God said its fine.
If she ever starves your offspring again spit in her face and rage fuck her on the spot and not the kind of rage fucking she likes. That bitch is fucking evil.
Starving a child. They dobt even do that in prisons. Well not any first world prisons i know of anyway.
>>17294049
This is child abuse.
You should tell your wife that. If anyone finds out what she's been doing, she could very well face felony charges.
>>17294481
You should watch again whiplash
>>17294049
Take away video games not food
Fucking disgraceful.
Ignore him not doing chores and focus on your cunt wife.
>>17294049
That's fucked up, man.
>>17294690
>divorce
>tearing a kid's life apart
why do people think this?
>>17294049
Lunch and dinner? Lol.. Is that all.. I guess you're not aware of people fasting for 12 hours a day or more and not dying.
When I was a kid, we did the 40 hour famine for charity at school. 40 fucking hours. 8 wasn't even 10. And your worried about 2 meals, end up doing the kids chores for him, and then get him a disgustingly unhealthy happy meal?
You are the bad parent, and your kid will see you as a pushover and not have respect for you in the long run.
Sit down and talk to your wife and make her acknowledge that he's your son too and his well being is your priority. Come to terms and agree that your wife shouldn't do anything of that manner. Obviously under feeding a child is illegal and if someone else were to hear about this CPS could get involved. Seriously... The fuck is she thinking?
>>17294923
Yeah this is about as sensible as it's going to get. Hope everything works out for you guys.
I'm not a parent so I can't really say this with much experience, but I am an 18 year old whose parents struggled for years with getting her to clean things properly.
This only worked because there were two of us, but my parents reaction was to make my sisters take turns, one on dishes each day. BUT if you do the dishes wrong, you continue every day until you get them right. I ended up on dish duty for about a week, and then I learned how to do them eventually and then did them every 2nd day again.
The reaction your wife had was wrong, but not necessarily because she denied him food. I'm sure she told him that he could have food once he had completed the chores properly (if not then yeah that is fucked up), and he chose not to do them because he was being stubborn. Food is a necessity. I'm sure he assumed she would back down eventually.
Try taking away something he actually wants, like computer games/electronics. These aren't things he needs or knows he will get. But they are things he will really want, and this will prompt him to actually do his chores.
All the people in this thread who are saying they were treated this way and turned out having issues... You guys need to come to terms with the fact that you were disobedient brats, and that your own actions led to your parents being harsh and you having issues when older. Stop blaming other people for your own behaviour.
Regarding the law, it varies based on location but your kid missing one or two meals as a one off punishment does NOT put them in immediate or even long term danger. Have a fucking ounce of logic you over privileged retards.
How you handle this situation with your wife will potentially have a bigger mental impact on your son than missing a couple of meals.
>>17294703
+1 what this anon said. OP is a fag.
>>17294895
Gee, maybe because it typically means the two authority figures in their life are now apart from each other, introducing new figures in the kids life and angry at one another when they do meet?
>>17294995
>All the people in this thread who are saying they were treated this way and turned out having issues... You guys need to come to terms with the fact that you were disobedient brats, and that your own actions led to your parents being harsh and you having issues when older. Stop blaming other people for your own behaviour.
You're right, the parents are innocent and the kids were all at fault.
>>17294049
Punch her in the stomach as hard as you can and tell her "thats about how it feels to not eat for a day as a 12 year old boy, cunt"
Is your wife a serious bible thumper?
>>17294481
This is bait.... Has to be...
>>17294485
This
>>17294542
Thats a caring mother, a realist if you will
>>17294612
Your mentally unstable, stop giving advice here, and stop telling yourself that anything you just posted is true.
I hope your just baiting man..
>>17295031
>typically
Real adults dont display hate in front of there children, were your parents this bad or something? Did a step dad mis-treat you?
This is straight up abuse. She's mad even after he actually does it? There is something else going on with her if he does it he's still in trouble and she's upset that he gets to eat.
You need to get some sense into her fast because if your son mentions this to any adult CPS will come. Your son needs to eat. Doesn't matter if he's misbehaving or doesn't do chores in a timely manner. He's growing and needs to stay healthy, and that should be more important than vaccuming his room within 5 minutes of being asked to.
Your wife must think trying a stricter punishment for misbehavior will help create discipline.
It's old school punishment & doesn't work. My dad did that & belt whoopings a lot for my brother. We're both adhd so my parents genuinely had a lot to deal with raising us plus my brother's a bipolar jerk. My dad not only failed miserably trying to punish us like that, but also made us resent him/hold my mom on a high pedestal unrealistically.
Now I have serious trust/daddy issues.
>moral of the story is don't be assholes to your kids and call it discipline, or you'll wind up with fukked up kids.
>>17294049
Hey OP, I am here to help. Multiple times my stepfather decided to punish me by taking away food (for things as small as coming home late. We are talking as little as 20 mins late.) My mother was sick and had no idea this was happening.
Now, I want to say that I was a LOT like how you have described your son (behavioural issues, too smart for my own good, etc.) I never really acted out much, but I hated being forced to do things before I was ready, so cleaning was often something I would refuse to do, or would do slowly/sloppily. Also, I point blank refused to clean messes I didn't make. Taking food away from me didn't encourage me in the slightest.
When I was 16-17 it got to the point that my stepfather escalated to taking food away from me for a week at a time (I shit you not.) I ended up resorting to stealing food to survive (by this I mean I snuck food from the house, not stealing from strangers.)
Trust me when I say you are right, your wife is wrong, and this kind of punishment will not help, ever.
>>17294481
You wouldn't have turned out better, I fucking guarantee it. I ended up going to therapy for severe depression and I was skinny as a fucking rake (where when I was younger I got quite pudgy.) I believe it did other permanent damage too (I have IBS and I tend to overeat most of the time.)
>>17294088
Unless the kids a psycho, I highly doubt he would be such an asshole to his own kids. I know I would never take food away from anyone, any time as punishmemt (except maybe excess food like treats, candy etc). Going through that was horrible and I refuse to inflict it on anyone else. I'd rather starve myself and give my food away than to see that happen to someone.
Jesus christ, eating notebooks? You say he has behavioral problems but just imagine what other kind of bullshit she has been up to while you were away at work.
>>17294920
And what happens when that "no lunch and dinner" turns into "no food for a week"?
Because I was just fine with the 40 hour famine as a kid. But when I had to go for a week without food (barring the tiny scraps I managed to steal) I felt like utter shit and a lot of trust and respect was lost.
I mean for fucks sake, this was over me being home after curfew, at 16-17, and the nutter had made my curfew 7pm or no dinner every day, and anytime after 10 and he wouldn't even let me in the house.
I am lucky I had friends who helped me, because there is reasonable, unreasonable, and psycho. He was well past psycho, because he thought those punishments were normal.
>>17295046
OP's son CHOSE to eat paper instead of doing his chores and eating properly.
It's pretty simple logic man..
If the other posters here had parallel experiences and are still blaming their parents, then they've failed to take responsibility for their own behaviour. They too CHOSE to take the path they went on.
>>17295122
>>17295138
Not the same as OP's scenario.
The wife could have done something more effective, but OP just compounded on the behavioural issues by showing the Son that his Dad will take responsibility for his poor behaviour.
What are you gonna do if your Son is getting bad grades OP? You gonna attempt to sit exams for him and then scold the teacher?
You gonna go to his workplace when he's older and carry out his duties for him cause he's too lazy and the boss gave him a warning?
>>17295274
He's 12 you fucking moron. Individual choice and personal responsibility aren't the answers to literally everything. His brain isn't developed yet, he's still very much a product of his parents.
>>17294049
removing privelidges is one thing, but when you remove essencial services from your child it has a profoundly negative effect
my mother used to take my food away until I did what she said, I became so bitter about her trying to control me by threat of starvation that I quickly came to hate her, It became a matter of how long I could bear to go without food before I gave in ashamed
hunger is a constant pain, weigh it up against a slap; it's the same kind of punishment.
it undermines childs sense of personal security, it makes them feel unsafe in their own home
talk to your wife about it, tell her that removing food/water/shelter isn't something you want to do to any degree
In the end your son is going to be fat.
This psychological "trauma" (though incredibly minor) will likely lead to theft. Theft will lead to hoarding. Don't be surprised to find food stashed away somewhere in his bedroom. Don't bother confronting him about it if you find it or else he'll just become better at hiding.
After a few years of gorging himself stupid when he gets the chance, he'll become overweight. He has to binge eat because he can't expect a decent meal when he's normally hungry. You'll notice the cereal disappearing first. You and your wife will be concerned, and then force a young child to diet. Dieting at this age will cause a never ending sense of insecurity when he realizes why people really diet. It's not for health, it's mainly for looks. Putting someone on a diet is admittance that they are ugly.
Your wife's fucking him up for life. But since she doesn't realize she's doing wrong intrinsically it'll be hard for her to accept it.
>>17294066
>but he just doesn't do the things he's told.
Sounds like a normal 12 year old.
At least he actually made an attempt. A kid who makes a poor attempt at something just needs guidance for how to do it properly. A kid who just doesn't give a fuck won't get that far.
>>17294491
So go for the middleground where actual parenting lies.
>>17295298
He's 12 not 5.
Please don't downplay the cognitive ability of children.
For all we know OP's son faked the paper eating and did a lousy job of the chores cause he knew his Dad would cover for him.
>>17294612
>Doing so often enough that they are eating paper IS
Well that's what we're dealing with and what anon is clearly referring to, you hollier than thou autist.
Let me guess, you're a mother, and performing a basic act of mammalian reproduction has given you a god complex. Join the fucking club.
>>17294920
There is a huge fucking difference between one-time voluntarily fasting, and being unwillingly, systematically starved by someone you're supposed to trust to keep you alive.
Just because it'll hardly kill the kid, doesn't mean it's not abuse.
You might as well say "So what if his entire family makes a game of screaming straight-faced insults at him to see who can make him cry the fastest? I once had my friends Roast me for my birthday and it was great!"
>>17295379
>You'll notice the cereal disappearing first
those feels were unwanted
>>17294995
>All the people in this thread who are saying they were treated this way and turned out having issues... You guys need to come to terms with the fact that you were disobedient brats, and that your own actions led to your parents being harsh and you having issues when older. Stop blaming other people for your own behaviour.
If people don't know how to deal with disobedience in a way that won't give their child life-long issues, they shouldn't have children
>>17295274
>OP's son CHOSE to eat paper instead of doing his chores and eating properly.
OP said his son made an attempt. Kids are inexperienced, they don't always know how to do a bang up job at seemingly simple tasks, or know what the standards are.
And even if he did choose that, OP's wife is a fucking adult, she has a responsibility to know better than to make a child go hungry when there are so many other ways to combat this issue.
The possibility that a child has knowingly done wrong does not immediately justify whatever ridiculous punishment can be concocted for them.
>>17294920
>40 hour famine
We did this as my school, too. Did you happen to go to private school?
OP, I cant speak specifically to your situation, but I am a teacher and as part of my job I have to go through mandated child abuse reporter training every year. One thing that always catches my attention is that punishing a child by sending him or her to bed without supper is NOT considered child abuse by law. Surprising, right? Especially since this is in California. Again, your specific situation may or may not be different. Also, you fucked up by getting a happy meal. Now your kid knows he can play you against your wife.
You need to talk to your wife about more appropriate ways to punish because you both need to be on the same page. I suggest instead of starving him, restrict what he eats: only give him the necessities (water, rice, steamed vegetables, plain meat) instead of something tasty if he does not adequately do his chores. You also need to talk to your kid because he understands on some level what he was supposed to do and did not actually try his best.
All you do when you withhold food from a child is tell them "Doing what I say is better than dying." Congratulations, that applies to pretty much anything you could possibly ask a person to do. "Stand on a box with this hood on your head, it's better than dying."
It's nothing but temporary control. It won't actually teach shit except how to better hide anything that flouts the seemingly arbitrary rules, and that he should move out ASAP so he can finally indulge in all the shit mommy and daddy didn't let him do without fear of being starved out.
Instead of looking for a means to simply force him to do his chores, why not educate him on why chores actually matter? Why not demonstrate that chores can be satisfying, that they're of direct value to him and his quality of life? Why not thank him for the difference he's made to both your tired selves in helping out and contributing to the family unit? Why not admire his demonstrations of independence and self-relliance?
>>17294066
Consider his intelligence a negative. A person on the street tells you to give him a $20 for booze. What do you gain in return? Just resentment.
It's the same for him. You did the right thing by getting him McDonalds for doing his chores. At least he got something for his work. If you keep up the work for reward system you'll find he's much less stubborn. Unfortunately you didn't tell him you were going to McDonalds in return for doing the chores so he still had to go do them "just because".
Congrats, your son has grown up. He's now able to value his time and effort rather than blindly obey.
>>17295433
>If people don't know how to deal with disobedience in a way that won't give their child life-long issues, they shouldn't have children
Yes I agree. OP's situation is not a recurring one (at this point) and isn't technically abuse, since missing two meals doesn't make most people malnourished or put them at any sort of risk. It's a passive method and the kid was fully aware of his choices. He was healthy and energetic enough to complete some of his chores.
Regarding his attempt. He did a sub-par job of vacuuming the first time, and then did it properly the second time. But didn't touch the bathroom at all. So he got half way there before his Dad stepped in and ruined the little bit of behavioural adjusted he was getting.
>>17295448
No. Public School.
For the record, every time I was punished as a child I knew I fucking deserved it. It wasn't just done for some unknown reason.
I was also neglected by my Dad throughout my schooling and got zero attention and encouragement for any of my efforts. This led to some socially crippling personality traits that resonate 30 years later. I don't blame my Dad. It made me who I am and I accept that. Could have been a lot worse.
>>17294049
>This is insane, right?
Yes mate, that's fucked. Proper fucked. It can cause developmental issues, stunted growth, cause problems with his concentration, and make the poor kid throroughly miserable to boot.
It's also going to make him feel like his mum is an enemy, which is pretty fucking terrible for a kid. Your parents are supposed to be the ones who make everything ok, the ones you can turn to, not the ones who make everything bad and you need protecting from. He's going to end up hating her, and one day she'll be sat wondering why he didn't invite her to his wedding and why she never met her grandkids. There's also a significant chance that he might mention it to a teacher - if that happens you'll get a brief visit from a socail worker (child protective services in the US I think) and from that point on the only contact either of you will have from him is when he - and any other kids you have - send you a letter to tell you how nice their foster family is.
To put this in perspective, google pic related. Perhaps show her some of the articles you find.
>>17295391
You have no idea of the cognitive abilities of children if you think a kid who is 12 has a fully developed sense of actions and consequences.
>>17295699
We're not asking him to analyse the arguments for and against using the large hadron collider. He fully developed sense of action and consequence to understand he is expected to perform chores.
But op does need to talk to his wife.
>>17294612
You know, my pop used to get beat with a rake by his dad. Most people would consider that normal back in the day, but that's sorta abusive by today's standards. Hindsight is 20-20. Give it some more time, maybe you'll see how wrong this sentiment is. Denying a person food is like denying a plant water. It's a basic necessity, a requirement to live
>>17296144
>do your chores or sit in your room and eat paper
A child that's grown up with consequences like going without multiple meals in the way OP describes not only hasn't had time to fully develop the idea of actions and consequences, but also has had that concept totally skewed by the consequences being completely off the charts extreme for his age. Have you ever dealt with children who have been abused and neglected like this? For example, kids who get beaten for every little thing don't give a shit about doing a good job or not because they know that the parent will find a way to beat them anyway, why try? No wonder this kid does a shitty job at his chores, he's likely "punished" like this routinely and therefore to him it doesn't matter whether or not he gets it right. It's not a choice anymore.
>>17294066
not eating at this age can contribute to having an incomplete physical development (including stunted growth), so make sure he gets his food
>>17295031
>living in an unstable, clearly unhappy home with two authority figures who absolutely hate each other and use their children as leverage against eachother
>but divorce is what tears children apart
>not the ongoing warfare between the two parents in the same household
at least in divorce the authority figures may find more suitable partners and develop a happier, more fulfilling home than their prior relationship.
don't get me wrong, I think it's all too common for people to turn to divorce when things could have been worked out. But I am telling you, from experience, that growing up in a household of two people who absolutely despise each other is emotionally devastating for a child. They wanted to stay together for our benefit but I would have been happier had they just separated. Seeing them so unhappy made me pretty pessimistic about love and people in general.
>the US doesn't have the Right to Food
That was unexpected, i know they have some ridiculous shit but this is too much...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_food
>>17295274
dude can you just end your life
we dont need people like you
I would punish the wife .
also send her to a raising child class withholding food is grounds for cps invasion and taking your child. protect your self get a lawyer asap or you'll end up in jail . this is no joke I may be pol but I am a father your son needs food.
act now you have no time to wait cps has already seen this post.
>>17297425
Jesus christ. Just America, a few African countries, and a few islands. That's about as embarrassing as those firearm death charts.
Keep telling yourself you're a first world country, America.
My did that to me she did even more odd punishments. When she found out I was self harming she did not get me help instead she called me gross anf grounded me for two months, if she talked to me about it she would of found out that my peers at school kept telling me to kill myself for three years and I just kind of broke one day. Could it be your son behavior is because he may be being bullied? My relationship with my mom is good now but that is because our relationship now is more like I am the mom for her. I know the things she did were not normal but I forgive her for her mistakes she is human too.
>>17297756
>i forgave her
That's some kind of twisted Stockholm Syndrome and shit.
