No, you're just insecure as fuck.

Here's a tip to follow.

No matter what, trust your first hand experience and common sense before all other claims whether it be in person or online.

>>17197967
Not true, sometimes I blow the first encounter just so i have more fun changing their impression of me.

>>17198025
Can you change the impression on a girl you've known for more than 2 years?

>>17198033
Even after 20 years you can change... Just move yo ass buddy

>>17198033
Through time.

I used to literally hate my fiancé. The only reason I ever spoke to him again after the first time we met was because we had a lot of mutual friends and kept seeing each other everywhere. It took over a year for me to return his interest (he liked me from the start). We've been living together for 2 years now and a couple for over 4 years, so I'm glad he changed my mind.

>>17198033
The longer your in the friend zone the less she sees you as a "guy" and more like a "friend"

But yes its still very possible, read up on body language, touching her more helps, and have her do things for you. all little things but they can help out, you also don't want to pour your feeling out to her...it make you needy women hate that shit

>>17197967
Yes. but there is also something called the touch barrier. for example if she lets you touch her or offers to share her food with you she likes you

>>17198046
What if you have different group of friends (her group being older) but still have some mutual interests and friends on facebook? I once heard that getting a girl is all about ''exposure''. Let's say you meet a girl at a club/activity that otherwise would never have crossed path with in real life. You are somewhat forced to talk to each other because you do the same activity and even though you are very different, you are getting to know each other by doing the same activity.

>>17197967
>Is it true that a girl can judge you in 5 seconds whether or not she wants to fuck, friendzone or ignore a guy?
Five seconds, no. It's more like 2-3 weeks. But it is true that you do not have long.

>Is it true that if your game is weak or you screwed up the attraction, you've got no chance of getting her back?
This, on the other hand, is right on the nose. Never, EVER continue to pursue a woman who has turned you down. It is guaranteed to end nastily. Reputations die when people ignore this.

>>17198103
By turning you down you mean friendzoned right? Or just totally ignored?

>>17198085
You're over complicating it.

Living in your head will kill you.

Girls can change their opinion of you.

>"I once heard that getting a girl is all about ''exposure''."

Stop listening to other people like that. If you're seriously concerned about your facebook reputation affecting whether or not a girl will like you, you need to get off the computer and talk to someone. If it's a real life reputation, the only way you're going to stand out is if you're interesting or being yourself. Unless you're posting gore shit or posting/saying something disgusting, far out of the "weird" range, it will be infinitely better to be yourself rather than some fuckboy poser.

Be authentic and trust your gut. Stop listening to shit advice, even mine if it doesn't work with your common sense (Not your irrational insecurities and fears).

If you want to talk to her, you have to go out of your comfort range and talk to her. It sucks, but if it's this inconvenient of a situation it's what has to be done.

>>17198117
I'm not some kind of NEET austimo fat neckbeard. I workout, good fashion, good hygiene and never sperg out but I still can't form any kind of meaningful relationship that people reach out to me, let alone women. I'm tired of this, I completely changed myself during the past 2 years to the point that I don't even know who I really am. I ditched everything, from porn to video games to toxic loser friends and it seems that I have done fuck all. If only I had woken up earlier...

>>17198110
>By turning you down you mean friendzoned right? Or just totally ignored?
Either one. Or rejected more harshly. However it happens, the end result is the same: your chances of a relationship with this person, ever, are now zero.

>>17197967
It's not so black and white. Women can change their minds.A lot of rejection has to do with timing, or the woman's mood at the time. You're not supposed to take it so personally.

Still, it's a good idea to play the field and not get hung up on one female so soon. The point is to get you out there, get you playing the numbers game, and not falling into scarcity by trying to appeal to just one girl so early on. When you do that, you compromise who you are and try to placate her. Whereas if you go around with a "I don't give a fuck" attitude, sharing yourself and not holding back, you can expect people to respond to who you really are.

>>17198046
Why any man would want to be with a woman who hated him at first is beyond me. Consider yourself lucky he didn't get tired of it and move on to go find somebody else.

>>17198163
What number's game? Among the hundreds of female that I've known, none have shown interest in me, not even in ''friendship''. The competition is to high and there are too many interesting/alpha males out there and I cannot compete with them. All the girls want the best of the best and that's how life works I guess

>>17198142

> I completely changed myself during the past 2 years to the point that I don't even know who I really am.

I went down a similar road. Before improvement I was able to get a cute scene chick with a nice ass to date me for a year when I didn't have a job or a car.

Now I haven't been laid for almost 2 years and I have a car, a job, and have read a lot of books.

I think that /fit/ or /adv/'s advice about improving ones self is false. It has to be genuine and authentic. If it helps your confidence levels and makes you happy, good, keep doing it, but in my case it just made me miserable. I became someone I'm not, felt guilty for having fun and am far more depressed than I ever was.

Once you're over the basic improvement stage (Dressing decent, hygiene, confident enough to hold a small conversation and look people in the eye) it should be abandoned to pursue what you love.

If you are to improve yourself, it should be towards whatever makes you happier, not improving on things in desperation towards getting friends or a girlfriend. In that sense it will back fire because there will be too much friction in yourself. You need to do things for you and a GENUINE care for others.

Every single day it's becoming clearer to me that contentment and confidence shine through any other improvement. Success has its base needs in food, shelter, etc, but after that happiness becomes subjective once again. Peruse it even if it's embarrassing. You can't escape your heart.

Sounds cheesy, but I hope your able to realize a similar truth one day.

>>17198200
It sounds like you believe some serious delusions. Women do not desire perfect, it's boring. You're projecting your insecurities and creating an illusion for yourself. Not trying to insult you here, but did you from from r9k? These illusions are crippling your confidence and you're growing resentment/despair within you, which of course isn't that appealing to anyone.

There are a lot of "betas" who are in loving, loyal relationships. It sounds like you need to take a long break from 4chan. This place makes the world sound infinitely worse than it really is.

Your focus needs to be off girls. You are treating them as an objective which will cripple your chances in the long run. You need faith. The girl will come but you need to spend time in your heart cultivating the things you enjoy and sweep away the illusions. Not "Improving yourself" but improving your life.

>>17198226
Life experiences and the redpill. /r9k/ only to remind me how far I've improved but how much still needs to be done. You can flame me how much you want about the redpill but the fact is that almost everything they say is true, at least in my experience.

>>17198046
I'm on the other side of the fence - guy who likes girl, girl pretty much avoids me but we similarly have the same circle of friends. I've known her for <1 year and your story gives me hope.

What exactly did he do though? I can't believe you just fell in love just because you encountered him often. Did he initiate the conversation with you most of the time?

>>17198200
I'm the anon you responded to. My experience isn't incredibly unlike yours.

My life has been routine rejection left right and center. At almost 24 years of age I'm still a virgin, with no immediate prospects and only rejection in my perceived future. I've gone so far as to fly out to see a girl I met online, 6,000 miles away, just to have her tell me I'm not attractive enough for her/she didn't feel anything, and also she was talking to this other guy she liked more than me. I've actually become so used to rejection that it feels like fate. It can feel like I will never meet a woman who is interested, no matter what I do. In my worst moments it is very easy to feel like I am not good enough for anyone and that I will always be alone.

As painfully real as these feelings are, things can change.The thing you have to remember is that rejection is not all your fault. There may be things you could be doing better or differently, but nobody is perfect. Take the pressure off of yourself to be perfect. Perhaps consider becoming less emotionally invested in your interactions with women, at least enough that you can stick to what you were to committed to, be it sex or a relationship. Of course, do that within reason - don't ignore enormous red flags or glaring signs of incompatibility.

cont...

>>17198265
....cont

Also, be honest with yourself. Do you honestly think nobody has ever been interested in you, and they never will be? I can honestly say that as bad as I feel about rejection, there have been women who were interested. It just hasn't worked out with any of them. I've kissed a few ladies, I've had women approach me, I've had women display obvious signs of interest. Remember that girl I flew across the world to see? Looking back, I realize she wanted me to basically go over there and fuck her. She was just as neurotic, insecure and desperate to lose her virginity as your average teenager gets. The only thing she didn't count on was me being a person, with his own emotions and boundaries. Had she have thought that I was someone who needed to be comfortable and feel good about myself before I would consider sex, it probably would've happened. Instead we were both far too emotionally immature to get over ourselves and enjoy that kind of moment together, even though we'd spend several months prior describing all the ways we wanted to deflower each other. It's really too bad, lol.

>>17198248
Fine, be stubborn. Keep "Improving" Keep acting like Elliot Roger and be an unlike able, unlovable piece of shit. While your're here complaining about your life and mechanically trying to get to know a girl instead of having some balls and doing it yourself, or really any other girl at all, other people who are "Bluepilled" are living rich fulfilling lives filled with love and personal success.

You've been tricked into thinking that the red pill of the world has to be negative. The reddit redpill is an echo chamber as is r9k.

But I don't give a shit about your life any more. You want to improve your life but you won't change from awful habits/mindsets. You are completely lost.

Have fun "Improving" and being a miserable lonely faggot.

>>17198248
The Red Pill makes very accurate observations for given unique circumstances and even some broader trends. The problem with it is that it just talks about the problems with society and men/women today without offering much of a solution. Or rather, a solution that isn't "work out, make money, fuck bitches", which is as vague as possible. Long term, most men want a lasting relationship. And not every relationship is the battleground that TRP makes it out to be, even if it does rely on the existence of strong base attraction to survive.

>>17198294
Just because I mentioned that I read some of the redpill you discard me as a loser faggot? What's wrong with trying to find solutions to a problem? Even if it seems radical, I am open to suggestions/change so instead of just throwing ad hominems, help me out. I just want to be a better person.

>>17198295
I agree that it doesn't offer much answers about long term relationships because for them it's impossible.

>>17198311
Impossible is a strong word. Why would it be impossible for them?

>>17198322
Because their whole mentality resolves around MGTOW and women are seen as temporary sex objects and no matter what, she will cheat on you someday without you knowing, even though the relationship is perfect because women aren't logical, they are guided by feelings. At least that's the whole general premise.

Unfortunately, I've been inclined to agree to some extent but I want to challenge this mentality and that's why I am seeking advice

>>17197967

sexual attraction is instant but you can build it

for example, a girl can be 5/10 don't wanna fuck in my eyes, but then she pulls out a wikkid laugh or has some sort of crazy personality which turns me on

i think its the same for girls

Just go on tinder and match with some ugly chicks and practice your game. Practice makes perfect!

>>17198331
It's hard isn't it? Because you know they aren't entirely wrong and you can't just say, "fuck that, that's bullshit". It's not all bullshit.

I don't know about you but I can relate to being emotional sometimes. Sometimes I feel painful or uncomfortable things when talking to women and I wrongly associate that with them, and think it's a sign that she's "not the right one" (when it could just be a sign that I'm not in the right frame of mind to appreciate a good woman in front of me). Obviously there have been times when a woman is clearly not a good match for me, and if I feel really hurt and upset by a woman I will not continue with them any longer. Period.

>even though the relationship is perfect
I don't think any relationship is perfect, but it could depend on how you define perfect. If by perfect you mean "going very well, without any major hiccups or huge issues of incompatibility" then yeah they do exist. Just be careful of trying to find a perfect person - they don't exist.

As far as ruining things with feelings is concerned, I'm always reminded that I've screwed up relationships with my own crappy emotions too. I am fully responsible for who I am and how I handle things, as I'm now an adult and that's how adults behave. Nobody "makes" me feel certain things, I respond the way I do for a reason. Similarly, I am not responsible for the emotions of another human being other than myself, so if a woman is being really insecure and decides to break up with me, or runs off and fucks some guy, it's got far more to do with her than it does with me.

Again though, don't let this kind of thinking convince you to stay in a shitty relationship. If you respond with appropriate emotions, they aren't your enemy. If you respond appropriately to a good woman, you're emotionally healthy. If you respond with sadness or even anger when a woman has wronged you, you're also emotionally healthy.

>>17198210
What if I told you that other people didn't make me happy? What if I said that I enjoy the pressure of a fast-paced life characterized by fulfillment?

What if I told you that I found a sense of purpose through accomplishment and goal-achieving rather than finding a relationship? What if I drew confidence from that?

I only say this because I have been told that my ambitious nature could cause problems down the road. My current girlfriend is afraid to lose me, as she is well-made that she is unable to keep up with me. I try to be the best at everything, to one up everyone, and I'm willing to make immense sacrifices in order to make my dreams a reality.

However, in this sense I have lost touch with those around me. It seems that everyone around me seeks stability, while I pursue change. I feel like there is some kind of disconnect between me and a lot of people, and that I have some ulterior motive for trying to be around them.

I'm extremely confident, intelligent, and determined to succeed but I feel so alone. I have a massive social circle but I feel like nobody truly understands me, and that feeling may never change. I'm afraid that one day I will lose everything that once gave me confidence. I feel like my overachieving and ambitious nature is rooted in a sense of inferiority and to fill a void.

I'm proud and satisfied with myself, but I don't know if I am happy.

>>17198415
OP here. That's exactly how I feel

>>17198210
I agree that improvement has to come from within. Though I would argue that it's a good idea to explore doing things you don't want to do, so you can experience what it's like to have to grind something out in order to have what you want.

There's people who don't like working out, or only semi-enjoy it, but do it anyways because it gets them what they want. like a nice body or the corresponding female attention.

I wouldn't want to be with a woman who only likes me because I was physically attractive, but unfortunately I have to acknowledge that there are many women who don't want to date a guy who's thin/not the body type they desire in a lover and partner. I'd like to think I'll meet someone who likes me and thinks I'm good looking enough, especially since I have people telling me I'm attractive enough to date all the time. But maybe bigger arms is the last thing I need before I can really seal the deal. Who fuckin knows.

Goddamn this thread is deep

No dude I asked out a girl over fb when I was sixteen, she asked if we could be friends, I said no. stopped hanging around her, did my own thing for a while without worrying about girls, six months later I was hanging out with some friends, invited her, and we were together for two years. You can, as I have recently learned, push them away over time without knowing it. If you are unhappy in life it's better to get that resolved before starting a relationship so you don't push baggage onto them. I now have a bunch of deep seated childhood issues I am resolving to see if she will want a less broken me back. If not, fuck it I'll keep her around, she's still a great friend

>>17198272

Not him but I genuinely think so after 26 years of loneliness and years of self improvement.

>>17197967
not really. they might make some assumptions about you but they can quickly change once you speak to her. one of the biggest judgement of character for a girl is how a guy dresses.

I believe so, for the first point at least. Typically, I tend to ramble on about how we're all human, but I think in this particular case, women may have that advantage.

Men... Testosterone... It makes us want to fuck anything that walks. It's because of this that biological chemistry is largely ignored. We don't realize when we are physically incompatible with somebody, because we are physically attracted to almost everybody.

This isn't really the case with women. I feel women are a lot more sensitive to this chemistry, because historically, they've had to be. A man can go knock-up 10 girls, and it's of no detriment to him (modern society notwithstanding) however, if a women were to do this, it would pose a great threat to her. Therefore, women must be a lot more selective in their breeding, and more sensitive to the physical chemistry of their partner.

In short, a women may not consciously understand that you aren't a physical match for her upon meeting you, but unconsciously, it will affect her behavior towards you and influence her actions. Physical contact is an extremely good indicator of physical compatibility. If she WANTS to touch you, and goes out of her way to do so, then chances are that you are physically compatible. If she shy's away and purposely avoids being close to you, then it's a good indicator that you are not physically compatible.

Of course, this would be but one mechanism of an entire system within our minds, but a factor it is no less.

For your second question regarding game, I feel that it's a per-individual thing. If they can see the motive behind your actions, and it's something that they respect, then I feel that you can push yourself back into their favor. If they are unwilling, then of course it would be close to impossible.

>>17197967 Not really, i have had awkward first encounters with girls that i later hooked up with.