If you're not black, like me, then yeah. It's that easy. But you've got to not show desparation. It's like bargaining for a car (terrible comparison); you have to be cool about it while negotiating and talking, no matter how much you want it. As soon as you show desperation or intense desire, it's in their hands.

>>17196496
yeah it pretty much is. Women are attention sponges and will mostly follow where you lead. That's the downside, I htink you can lose respect for them when you realize they blow with the wind and don't have strong ethical codes past whatever they feel like doing - so in a word, fickle.

in which OP finally understands that "just b urself" is more than a meme

>>17196703
isn't seeing the light so soul crushing and beautifully simplistic?

>>17196703
>>17196707
How is "just b urself" more than just a meme?

If I was actually myself, I wouldn't be able or willing to take steps toward being more social. I've only gotten this far because in many of my interactions, I pretend to be someone I'm not. Don't get me wrong, elements of my personality are there, but I have to pretend to be more confident and outgoing, while trimming back any spergy behaviors.

>>17196736
you'll be fine. you're overthinking it. Being sociable is not something you're inherently good at, its an exercised skill that people are good at for varying reasons and varying degrees. Maybe you're at the lagging end but you'll learn.

You being defensive now is a symptom that you don't know enough to be social but its not something you can reason through. We've evolved from animals so trying to logic your way through it is a futile effort. For all of us, and yourself, just get out there and try more. Fall on your face and go again. You'll realize your friend is right but only because they've unconsciously arrived at an ability to converse with women and seduce a few. By exercising this skill you can incorporate your personality into that skill, but you need to develop it nonetheless. To think that its something you're not born with is nonsense. Few people are born with ability.

>>17196736
not that anon, just butting in briefly.
>If I was actually myself, I wouldn't be able or willing to take steps toward being more social.
>wouldn't be able or willing to take steps
but you are able and willing to take steps, so therefore that ability is part of you. being who you are means changing, unless you want to end up being like those guys who are 50 and still act like they're in high school. how do you think people grow, mature, expand their horizons, learn new shit? by taking steps. you listened to your friend's advice. that's a step. you posted here. that's a step. each time you put that advice into action, whether you succeed or not, that's a step. step step step til you get there.

>but I have to pretend to be more confident and outgoing, while trimming back any spergy behaviors.
yeah, so? welcome to human interaction. we all have to do it. some are naturally outgoing and only have to do it a bit, others have to do it a lot. take farting for example: everybody does it, some do it more, some less. married couples fart in front of each other all the time, but it's considered gauche to do it at a business meeting or on a first date, so you either modify your eating habits beforehand to prevent it, or find a way to politely excuse yourself so you can do it discreetly elsewhere. or take meds to prevent it. or all 3 if you're naturally gassy. it's the same thing.

I don't really know how to put into words how I feel about the topic, but basically, when I want something like sex, I've got to sell myself much like you would any other 'product'.

I've got to be the most desirable version of myself possible, I'm playing a character, I'm acting. Because it is impossible for me maintain this character 24/7, I'm acting, within the context of wanting something.

That is sex, not a relationship, which might develop once something builds up and barriers are let down, but she is playing this game or acting just as hard herself.

Instinctively this triggers something within my personality, I'm uncomfortable because I don't like treating people this way, being manipulative, taking advantages of my advantages and gaining recognition for it, but this is because I've a personality built upon self depreciation and putting myself down in order to feel comfortable amongst a group of allies rather than as a leader, pushing for an outcome.

It both is and isn't as simple as your friend says. Basically, how badly do you want something? Can you lie to others? Can you lie to yourself? Can you convince yourself that you aren't actually lying, you are playing a game that others wilfully engage in?

We all look for love, we all look for some sign that life contains comfort and ease and some sort of simplistic black and white thinking where if we are ourselves we are rewarded, but it is more complex than that, basically it is all pretty much a game.

Gerrymandering. Fucking being human. An awareness of our flaws while celebrating them for what they are. I found my teenage and 20's especially difficult because of the game played within interpersonal relationships.

I decided to be refreshingly upfront and 'different'. Excuse me while my mind is blowing up because I realise that is actually a game strategy.

>>17196808
>>17196808
while i agree with what you're saying you're blowing it out of proportion and acting as though its more reprehensible than it really is. Think of people you admire: aren't they employing the same tactics? They don't have to be magnetic by being self-depricating, that's just the brand you chose for whatever reason - though you don't have to.

Navigating society is a game, see >>>17196503

Once you realize the absurdity of it all you can work within its framework. You can be indignant, while you won't be met with success you'll appeal to a narrow audience. Would you rather act genuinely or have mass appeal? That's basically what you're looking at. I assume you pick the former, so once you can let go of being at odds with the latter you'll feel better.

>>17196808
I think most people realize this to some degree. You're just being edgy about it.

the top rated book on meeting women (not pua, but for the purpose of a relationship and whatever) literally boils down to

> dont care what women think
> ask out loads until one says yes (because you dont care what they think you dont take the rejection personally)

women all think theyre top shit and deserve ryan gosling but once theyve been worn down by only getting attention from uggos like me and you they give up and then you can move in

>>17196838
I don't think it is reprehensible, I think it is what it is. I am totally comfortable with the fact that an aspect of my personality initially finds it discomforting because that is me. I find it kind of comforting that it is all tied up within the human condition. To love and be loved.

Ultimately though, it comes because I want something. To get that thing I must act a certain way which feels dishonest. This is basically a fear of not being desired for my true self. The whole individual/special snowflake thing laid bare as an anxiety or insecurity.

Is this an issue? No, because I need something from another, this is a form of external validation which basically means I have to put my self esteem into the hands of another and my validation into the hands of another and this is inherently dishonest within the bounds of my personal philosophy which is basically self contained and disciplined. But then this is no worse than any other time when you put an outcome into the hands of another because you need something from someone else.

>>17196869
what book was this?

>>17196870
so then whats the problem? Just think of seduction as a game, and like any game, not to be taken too seriously. I assure you no female gives a shit as much as you do. Most of what you're going on about sounds like mental masturbation and ego stroking. You aren't the ubermensch you think or want yourself to be, so don't worry if you 'violate' anything. We all fall short of our ideals unless you're truly exceptional, and based on the numbers of being exceptional, i'm going to guess you aren't.

What you're doing is acting in a way that they can project their desires onto. In the context of purely sex (not relationships), that's all this is for, to live out a quick fantasy for a night because to perform it honestly is to shatter the illusion. That's all it is, playing into each other's mutual illusions until the deed is done and you both are 'satisfied.'

>>17196893
models - mark manson