My fiancee wants to join the LDS church. The Mormon missionaries came to her doorstep and talked to her, and she's been meeting with them and learning about the church and its beliefs. I've started coming with her and going to church events and talking to the missionaries. The more I meet with them, the more of a cultish vibe I get from this organization, and the more scared I am that my fiancee's conversion could ruin my relationship with her. I'm familiar with cults and how they work. I'm not a part of any religion, but I'm open to the idea of God. However, this isn't like other branches of christianity I've been acquainted with. It's more like a few self help groups with destructive tendencies I've nearly been sucked into. Here are some things I've observed:
>they use love bombing to make their church look attractive and make you feel welcome, like you're part of a family
>they withhold information that would make the church seem crazy to a complete outsider, like that god is an ascended man who comes from a star-base called Kobol, and that everyone can become a god when they die. When I asked one of the missionaries about God being a human and how that contradicted the bible I was simply told that it was a mystery and that we couldn't have all the answers because god's plan was too vast for us to know
>they withhold information that would make Joseph Smith or any of the church's subsequent 'prophets' look like charlaitans, of which exists plenty
>the missionaries will tell you that the only way to know the truth about the book of Mormon is to pray and trust your feelings, not to think critically
>the church wants you to convert on their time and pressure you to start obeying their commandments and work towards being baptised quickly, my fiancee basically drank the koolaid on this one and is planning on being baptized in a week, even though she seems to know little about the church outside of what the missionaries have discussed with her
I'd suggest a more moderate church. They can actually be pretty pleasant. The more fundamentalist ones the lean towards cult mentality are pretty damaging in my opinion. I don't attend a church myself, I was exposed to a number of them and didn't really like the human element, the politics to it all. I'm happy as a hermit believer
>behavior control is emphasized, they want to have daily contact with you to make sure you're not drinking alcohol or fucking coffee, or having sex, similar to what Ive seen in cult-y self help groups
And most disturbing to me
>the church teaches that to achieve the highest level in the afterlife, your spouse also has to be Mormon and you have to do a ceremony in a temple
At first I supported her enthusiasm for this because I was happy that my fiancee found a church and she could get some community out of it and learn to better herself from it and maybe I could to. But I don't want to be part of a church that requires me to blindly believe that this guy from the 19th century is a prophet chosen by god to restore the one true church, and that there is a living prophet who can change canon and tell me what to do with my life. Hell, this is even making me question if christianity in general is believable. I'm scared she will get sucked into this and it will become more important than me, and she'll be pressured away from me because I'm deciding not to be part of this church. And I dont know how to talk to her about it.
I dont think the missionaries or anyone else are bad people for believing this stuff, but I don't think it's correct. I see no proof that it isnt 100% made up, and plenty of proof to the contrary.
>>17160278
>>17160305
Protip: she's being sucked into this so easily because she's unsatisfied with her life (this possibly means you). Be a fucking man and tell her that you're not joining and neither are you. If she chooses the cult over you, then you dodged a bullet.
I'm sick of all this nu-male "I can't control my woman" bullshit.
Your fiancee is a dumbass
>>17160332
*tips*
>>17160326
>>17160326
>You're not joining and neither is she*
Gotta love religion.
>God works in mysterious ways and we can never understand.
>But here is a list of specific things He is against and will definitely punish you for.
It's 2016 WE KNOW HOW STARS AND PLANETS FORM AND THE BASICS OF HOW LIFE CAME TO BE IN A NON MYSTICAL WAY WHY THE FUCK ARE SUPERSTITIOUs BELIEFS STILL HELD
I was raised LDS, I don't believe it now but it's actually not all that bad to be part of if you don't mind like abstaining from the drinks and you aren't gay or anything. Being a misfit in the church sucks ass, otherwise it's pretty friendly and fun. Not to say you should join, but maybe your fiancée joining will be ok
I think for a lot of your complaints what you need to realize is that LDS is basically what a cult looks like roughly 150 years from its inception as opposed to 2000 years from its inception.
Sure Joseph Smith may have been a charlatan who just decided one day that he wanted to be a prophet, but thats how all religions started.
>>17160326
So, how's the single life, edgelord?
>>17160421
>>17160394
>>17160356
>>17160344
>guaranteedreplies.jpg
All those edgy kids, cheezs. Never ceases to amaze me how some people regard beliefs they cannot understand as dumb, stupid, retarded or whatever.
>>17160356
John Oliver cmon
The CES letter is a good place to start for everything wrong with the LDS Church. The guy was asking honest questions and the church ended up treating it like high treason.
>a talking snake
>>17160278
Well, they like to say that their church is perfect, but the people are not. Which is of course BS. A church is it's people, and it's impact on them. Mormonism affects some people harder than others. Some people get really culty with it, especially the preppers. But really for most people who get involved it homogenizes your opinions on politics, makes you very opposed to gays, trans, etc. It makes you kinda racist, some people more than others. They skirt around that stuff in weird ways. It's also kinda sexist, like men are potential gods, the patriarchal rulers of all, and women are the blessed child-bearers, and they have their culty explanation for why that's an equal gift but men are always in charge. And you're heavily discouraged from marrying outside of their church, or marrying someone of a very different ethnic background. They call it being unequally yolked, like a big horse pulling a saddle next to a small one. Its something they make people feel subtly bad about forever. I've seen that impact. She will always be sad that you are not bound to her as a mormon because they have this all important obsession with the next life, and meeting the requirements for a forever family. I would honestly call it a cult. It can really mess up families and friendships when people try to leave.
^
They're mantra is so perfected that when people fall into it, it's super hard to even see how it is impacting you. They edit they're history, they play off of peoples emotions, the whole 9 yards. And they have a way of getting people to only read their inclusive books, watch their religious movies, and constantly go to meetings with eachother. They tend to become self contained comunities regardless of where they live. They're huge and incredibly well funded. I feel for you man. If there's a bright side I would say that mainstream mormonism doesn't seem quite as brutal as what I understand scientology to be. But they do hide a lot of things, especially at the beginning when they're trying to reel you in. Some stuff they only talk you about in their temples, or at their advanced classes, long after you're hooked and baptized. They basically call it heresy to go looking through any material that criticizes their faith or version of history. And what they can't hide they surgar coat and integrate to their mantra. I would almost consider it abusive to raise a kid in that heavily single minded environment. I know it sounds weird to be that critical of people that seem so happy. They do offer a support system, socialization and a sense of belonging that that people have a hard time finding on their own sometimes. But I do believe that there is a heavy cost involved. Hope that helps.
I'm sorry to say that the "more important than you" concern is valid. They teach specifically that god is the most important thing period. They make a big deal of the story where abraham was willing to kill his own kid for god. The idea is that the love and sense of protection you feel for your children trumps all other relationships, and god trumps that. It's like mentally she will be living in a different universe, one where deep down she thinks you're bad for her, and even if it's at odds with how she feels, some part of her will believe that she would be happier with somebody else. Mormons get more divorces than you would think, and a lot of times it's because someone "fell off the bandwagon"
Either you can live with her being a dense cunt who needs to believe in a man in the clouds, or you can't.
My vote is dump her sheep ass and find someone who isn't hooked on magic fairy tales
>>17160326
> you're not joining and neither are you
Just out of curiosity, how many people are there in your head?
>>17160278
>ven though she seems to know little about the church outside of what the missionaries have discussed with her
So discuss it with her.
As well show her what a temple rite looks like and the secret signs used in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6udew9axmdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpTrNXQXChI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmk_CYjow0A
If she joins them, break off with her.
You do not want your future children indoctrinated.
>>17160430
Just cause you call it edgy doesn't make it false.
>>17160429
>>17160734
Different anon, but me and the bae have an understanding where if one if us is being a dumbass, then it's up to the other to stand their ground. It's definitely not foolproof, but it actually works most of the time. I know he's being dramatic, but in a relationship both parties need some degree of control over each other. Which is fine because if you can't trust that other person then there's probably a bigger issue.
>>17160430
What's with you fuckers who fancy that myth calling anyone who doesn't buy into it edgy? It's not cool to not believe in god. It's (at the moment) the only logical conclusion to have about the universe. There is no need for a designer. Shit, we're only here because DNA randomly was able to successfully make copies of itself. Even then, it makes mistakes. What omnipotent god makes mistakes? The same one who allows for beheadings and starvation and rape. Rip that bandage off. You'll thank me later.
>>17160751
Claiming beliefs are false doesnt make Them false. Glad you realized that
>>17161167
When there's no evidence it is. Otherwise we'd all still be believing in Santa claus and zeus and.. Oh.. you.. you still belie- oh this is awkward.
>>17161208
I dont actually. I just think you hipster scum are even worse than cults, because you do not understand that atheism is belief by definition.
>>17161244
Atheism is lack of belief by definition you fucking mongoloid. This is why you christfaggots always lose debates because you can only argue from the realm of belief, to the point where you have to project belief where there is none.
Protip: there is no system of truths in atheism, the only requirement is lack of belief in a god or gods. Tom Grundlenuts could think gravity doesn't exist and that everybody has an angry bee living in their skull, but he's still an atheist if he doesn't believe in a god or gods.
>>17161780
Uh oh, looks like someone didn't go to school.
Athiesm is a belief that there is no god.
From 'a-', lack of, and '-thiesm', to do with god.
What you're looking for is agnosticism.
From 'a-', lack of, and '-gnosticism', to do with knowledge.
>>17162126
Yeah, atheists are fucking stupid.
I would leave her OP. Unless she's willing to drop the cultish stuff :/
Religion is good and healthy, but not like this.
