How do you get over realizing that women are with you because of what you can do not who you are? Basically that women objectify men?
Every girl, my current included, has said she loves me for me but this is obviously false. When I get a promotion, suddenly the complaints about how broke she is start. When she gets a promotion, the whining about how she's doing all the work starts. With every girl it's always a power struggle about what SHE is getting.
it's always about her. It's always about them. What's the point to being a good partner when i can treat them like I don't need them and get better results? In the case of my current girl - when I act like a truly equal partner - disaster. When I act like an alpha male... well I'm sitting here smoking her weed, eating her food, fucked her as much as I want this past weekend. How? I dumped her. What the fuck is wrong with women?
>>17082308
>because one woman's traits= all women's traits
Phew lad, lay off the woman-hating redpill for a while.
>>17082321
I'm not able to give an exhaustive list of my personal experience here. It's extensive. And almost all of my experience points the same way.
I've dated many types of women. when I've let go of judgement and encouraged the truth, it's always the same story.
Women love men for what those men will do for those women or what those women expect those men to do. I intentionally disrespect women to their faces now and they fuck and date me more, not less, because they see me getting promotions and winning at life. They "love" me because of what I do, not who I am. I could be the most callous piece of shit and after whining for a day or two theiyre right back to me. But the more I commit, the less they give.
It's kind of sickening.
I think you ought to re-assess your interpretation of how your problems in your relationship come up. Is it really just about them, what they want and what you SHOULD be doing? Or is it the way you're seeing the issue by not looking at the whole context?
Maybe you just date shitty women. Maybe you're shitty and attract shitty people. You need to provide a little more detail before you start making a big oversimplification.
>>17082308
>All of the girls I've dated have been shit
>Therefore all girls are shit
Nope.
I'm poor as fuck and I have absolutely no trouble getting girls.
The reason you get golddiggers is because you're a banal, uninteresting fuck.
Kill yourself.
>>17082321
>blue pilled white knight talking about the red pill
OP describes women perfectly. It's pointless to pursue equality, unless you like being earfucked/ignored/cheated on. Men and women are different in the way they approach relationships so why bother trying to make things "equal".
>>17082354
OP isn't saying that you need money to get women, he says that you need money to keep them. He says that commitment is a scam because women constantly nag about getting more out of you.
Those are two completely different things.
The responses in this thread are interesting.
>not all women are like this
To those of you using the above reasoning, you are taking an easy and irrational way out. It's easy to say "not all women" because obviously no one can meet all 3.5 billion women on the planet. But the truth is that there is a common behavior to mankind, women are no exception.
It's pretty irrational to say "not all women are like this" because you don't know either. They very well might be.
If you've had an experience with a woman that you think breaks this mold, well let's hear about it
insofar as an anthropological aspect, objectification is not a bad thing. maybe you're sour because your appealing traits are more physical and readily obvious now, but trust me; people objectify each other for their intelligence and empathy too.
people need things from each other, OP. that's normal. the very point of a personality is to define yourself to those in your 'tribe', which means you want to be a healthy member of this tribe who can help and contribute and keep the sabertooths away et c.
you will also want the memvers you bring into your tribe to reflect that, and pull their own weight, and bring their own individual contribution to the social tribe.
it's ok for a partner to be looking for a set of traits that best fits their personal tribal goals. focus on your own needs and stop dwelling on how badly you think women are failing to rise above basic human fucking nature. you're not a snowflake, you have your standards too.
Don't really have any advice, but it sucks I agree. I don't have any family at all, save a sister I was just never close to, so my girlfriend is the only person I consider family. I want to be sweet and caring and "beta", but that has always repelled women. Acting like you don't give a shit about them always makes them love you more. And of course, as someone will always point out, not all women are like that, but I'd venture to say that 98% of women are turned on by thks behavior, just like 98% of guys get turned on by a nice pair of tits and ass.
>>17082380
Wow, that's a really good point.
Except it's not.
I have no trouble keeping them either.
>>17082399
>Not all women
No, that's not even the point. Most women are NOT like this.
>>17082399
No one is denying that women can act like OP has described. The problem is that OP is using his experience to make an assumption that all women do this. Because people tend to be skeptical at baseless claims, they call out a flaw in logic. Speaking of which, the burden of proof is on the OP to prove that ALL women act like this. No, no one has the time to extensively measure the relationship behaviours of all women, so not only can you not prove all women are not like this, you cannot prove that they are. So how about you take a good hard think about what you just posted there, friend. It's very easy to do some mental gymnastics and think that you are being logical and correct when you're not.
>inb4 no u
>mfw my bf earns 3x more than me yet I pay all the bills
Get me some of OP's dick
Man threads like this make me feel bad for being a woman.
I don't even do this shit but I know people will think I do because of all the other shitty women out there.
Boyfriend and I make approximately the same amount of money (he makes ~$100 more a check on average) and we split all bills evenly. I particularly like to buy gifts for those in my life, so I spend a lot of my extra money on making our home life a little bit nicer. (PS4, bought him a new monitor, new tv, we just bought a really nice bed)
We're relatively well off so there's really no issue with money for either of us. We're saving up for a trip to California currently.
We split chores between us evenly. Switch off taking out the garbage, doing dishes, cleaning the cat box. It's just common decency?? I respect him enough to pull my own weight, and he respects me enough to do the same.
Why is that so hard?
>>17082452
How is that does he have a gambling/drug habit or something?
>>17082419
>you're not a snowflake, you have your standards too.
This is of course true.
But the issue here is not the existence of standards, but the application of them. I grew up in what I would call a true equality household. My father did certain things because he personally was better at them. My mother ditto. It was never a male vs. female issue. My mother never gold digged my father. My father was faithful to my mother in so far as I know. They both always told me that they were with each other because of who they were - their virtues so to speak. my mother never expected my father to do anything; she loved him because of his character and ditto from dad to mom. I can name countless examples to show this, but just trust me.
The issue I have isn't that standards exist; it's that women are out here lying that they want a true partnership when in fact their behavior shows they sexually and relationship-y reward the opposite.
Women fuck me and want to date me without ever knowing anything about my character. It's literally a game where I do the "right" things and get sex and commitment from them as a result... when they barely even know who I am.
That's my issue. And before you name me a hypocrite, just don't. I used to take shit from *everyone* literally *everyone* for dating women for their personalities because that usually meant I dated women other people considered physically unattractive. it was like I had committed a social sin dating someone for their character instead of her tits.
>>17082437
lol no u.
I have to use my experiences and the experiences presented to me to make my conclusions given that we have both agreed no one can actually prove "all" women are a certain way.
Therefore, it's pretty reasonable to use one's own experience.
Which is why I asked for sharing. I see a lot of people posting that women are not like this... but no actual examples of times women bucked this trend of objectification I'm describing.
>>17082452
OP here. You jest and I like it but no really. That kind of attitude is a great example of how women in my life have always acted. Yours is an extreme because your boyfriend should be pulling his own weight... but I can't even remember how many times I've gotten laid because:
>mfw my bf earns 3x more than me yet I pay all the bills
>Get me some of OP's dick
I would make jokes with these women like:
>Her: I need to hurry, I have to see my boyfriend in an hour
>Me: He can have you when I'm finished with you
>Her: Gushing
At first it feels nice. Then it just makes me sick that that's really all it takes. Find a girl who is "unhappy" for whatever valid or not valid reason, throw in some fun and hope, and viola better sex than she gives her boyfriend and she talks shit about him like he's nothing to her.
It feels good on your dick but bad in your soul.
>>17082472
>boyfriend and I make approximately the same amount of money
>Why is that so hard?
First off, it's not hard for you because you two have similar power in the relationship. You make the same and I assume work roughly the same kinds of hours given you split everything equally.
It's easy to think everything is fine when you're "in balance." What happens when you make 3x more than him?
Also, how's the sex life?
>>17082544
We actually just recently came into a situation where we make about the same. I previously made significantly less than him (about half). We tried to split everything evenly, but of course it was a little bit more difficult. I would help pay for all that I could, and he would pick up the slack where I couldn't. I think the part that made that okay, was that we were/are always completely open and honest with our financial situation.
Sex is awesome. He fucks me like I'm a queen and treat him like he's a god.
Fuck daily if we can make time for it, but our schedules are a little different so it can be hard sometimes.
>>17082472
Oh yeah and what happens if you get a raise and it's no longer "equal"? Think about it long and hard.
>>17082562
We live within both of our means. If he can only pay $400 a month in rent, then we stay somewhere that we can both afford. My extra money would go to luxury items, and savings for big trips. Like I said, I like to buy gifts for those that I care about. So it's not like I'd be hoarding all this money, and rubbing it in his face. He wouldn't ever go without, and I know he'd do the same for me if the roles were reversed.
>>17082516
>It's literally a game where I do the "right" things and get sex and commitment
Can you describe what the right things are?
>>17082570
>Can you describe what the right things are?
This sounds counter intuitive given how I'm discussing these subjects bluntly here... but in a nut shell I just try to be a man that I would want to fuck.
I try to get the most out of my labor, i.e. get the best paycheck for my work that I can. I stay fit. I read and keep my mind sharp. I try to be patient with others' failings and quick to encourage myself to do better. People describe me as "sharp as a whip," "enlightening," and "super fucking hot with a nice cock (my girlfriend)."
So I've basically pushed myself to be the bets human that I can be. The dark side to it is you see how people actually behave. My progress has been a journey. Going from 150 lbs to 195 lbs of muscle was particularly enlightening about how women act.
Same woman on the outside, suddenly a slut inside of the bedroom, only thing that changed was my /fit.
>>17082308
>How do you get over realizing that women are with you because of what you can do not who you are? L
Men define themselves by what they do. Why is it a problem that women also define them by what they do?
>Basically that women objectify men?
Um... isn't this basically the opposite of objectification?
>>17082308
That's just the game bruh. Women are incapable of love except for their children.
Men fight wars and make great works of art for women. Men sacrifice their lives for women.
In return women do...?
As usual you'll get flooded by white knight cucks ITT
>>17082645
>Men define themselves by what they do.
no they dont
>>17082613
>Going from 150 lbs to 195 lbs of muscle was particularly enlightening about how women act.
Im...dubious about this
Ive always been fit and im currently sitting at 197 and ive noticed no change in how women act around me. In fact its gotten harder to date since the dating pool seemed to dry up in this year ive taken to focus on studies, work and training (and i mean bone dry, havent met a girl in over a year now)
Where do you find em anon?
>>17082703
how tall are you?
>>17082673
I disagree. Women are capable of love for a man. Its somewhat simmilar to stockholm syndrome but it still counts,
>>17082706
6'1''
>>17082308
Op i think you are on to something because i always treated women with respect but no girl ever gave me the time of day meanwhile ever abusive chad who disrepects women has had mutiple girlfriends.
>>17082354
All women are gold diggers idiot and they are only dating you for fun but when they get serious they will date someone with money.
>>17082715
197 for 6'1 is kinda awkward. Something like ~175 with around 10% bf would be a lot more aesthetic considering your height. Also the face is very important too.
>>17082740
Akward how?
Im comfortable right now with my cutting, gonna cut down abit and get abs to see how it looks but summer is coming so i have no hopes of getting a gf this year
>>17082308
You get over your realization about women by first understanding that it's your own neediness and insecurity that make you vulnerable to women's manipulative objectification of men.
It's your unfulfilled needs for recognition, acceptance and love that turn you into a tool.
Women are selfish and they will try and maximize what they can get out of you—you can't blame them for it.
>>17082745
when you get bigger than what your bones are meant to support, things start going out of proportion and it makes you look bloated
cause for example you can't buff your wrists or your head, but your muscles keep growing and after a certain point it becomes unaesthetic
or you may eat too many calories and end up with tons of bodyfat which is also unaesthetic (and bad for your health)
you need to find the right balance, of you know what works best for you and should strive towards what makes you feel the most comfortable with your body
i personally feel that at 6'1, something like 175 and semi-ripped would be the best balance between raw power and utility
>>17082308
. Never say ‘I Love You’ first
Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.
II. Make her jealous
Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.
III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.
>>17082792
IV. Don’t play by her rules
If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
V. Adhere to the golden ratio
Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.
>>17082722
Is that why they want to marry me?
Okay.
>>17082781
Thats really nice mate but it doesnt really explain the lack of a gf since i know guys who has a beer gut and still has gotten laid a ton more times than me in the last year alone
Although my problem mostly is that i cant litterally find a girl to even date so i cant really say what the problem is, you might be right
I am cutting down so ill see what i land on when i get abs big enough to make me feel comfortable
>>17082792
>>17082800
VI. Keep her guessing
True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.
>>17082807
VII. Always keep two in the kitty
Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.
VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.
>>17082815
IX. Connect with her emotions
Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.
>>17082522
OH SHIT
WOMEN BTFO
>>17082819
X. Ignore her beauty
The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t fucking. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.
>>17082802
What part of "all women are gold diggers" dont you understand???? Trust me they will regret it but they are probably just giving you a chance because they think you might have the potential to aquired resources.also they will resent you for wasting their youth because with their beauty they will never suffer or go hungry
I know many women who say "i wasted my time dating him" and resent him.
>>17082815
> Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.
I have some follow up questions
I found this out the hard way but how does one obtain another? im in a dry spell like the desert and i cant break it no matter what i do
Should i be able to find a gf again i want to be prepared for this scenario
>>17082805
i'm just throwing out ideas here man, it can't hurt to be a little leaner, if anything for your own health
but like i told you before, the face is the most important thing...if you're ugly there's nothing you can do about that one
or maybe you come off as a meathead
or maybe women are flirting with you and you don't realize it
just keep living and if something happens it happens...if not....well....women are extremely overrated anyway
>>17082829
>I have a religious belief that all women are gold diggers!
>All heretics must die!
Okay. If believing that makes you feel better, go right ahead.
Unfortunately, the real reason girls don't like you is because you have no personality.
No amount of denial on your part will change that.
>>17082828
XI. Be irrationally self-confident
No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.
XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.
>>17082836
Im not ugly, dont worry about that
and most people i hear talk about it tell me im smart since i do good in school and help other people out regularly
Got a bit of a reputation as a problem solver at work because of this
Women are not really overrated IMO, i miss the sex, the love and the companionship i got when i had a gf but now since we broke up its been dry as a bone
Womens sex drive and drive for commitment is highly overrated though, cant think of a single think women seem to want less than commitment desu
Well thats not really true its a market question really where overflow of guys make all the girls who have a sex drive and want for commitment taken but its easier to say the first thing
>>17082844
XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an asshole, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time.
>>17082844
XIV. Fuck her good
Fuck her like it’s your last fuck. And hers. Fuck her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.
XV. Maintain your state control
You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.
XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.
>>17082839
I actually attract many women and you know why??? because i have ambition which means i have the potential to aquire resources and that is all women care about but keep telling yourself that women will stay with you for the long run if you dont have money.
>>17082850
even if you are average you can still run into a lot of problems because of how fucked up superficial our society has become
and i disagree, women are very overrated not just for relationships but sex too
you me and probably almost every man on the western hemisphere has been brainwashed since birth that sex is more important than it actually is and we need to do all sorts of stupid shit to get it so that rich people can get even richer off our stupidity and lack of self control
come on man gimme a break, look at us here whining like we're girls ourselves.........
from an economics point of view, female sex appeal is a giant bubble that's gonna collapse HARD in the not so distant future
Op you said that your parents treat each other well? How did they meet and communicate? How were they able to tell that the other would be a good partner? Have you talked to your gfs about your worries that they're using you?
I wish guys would stop telling each other to treat women badly. That attracts an immature woman who thinks that this is attractive or exciting without thinking about the long term consequences.
I think girls who are looking for love over money or looks would see warning signs in you, just based on the little you've written here. At least to me, you seem to have a cynical hatred of women and overall negative outlook (and too much experience in a way, going for lots of girls rather than choosing one carefully).
You're trying to attract an untarnished personality while being tarnished yourself. In that way, you're unhappy with your current gf, yet you match each other. You might want to think about talking to her, knowing that it could lead to a break up and if that's what you want.
>>17082308
What you do is who you are.
>>17082882
Well yes, on a strictly technical standpoint youre right
There is no reason for a woman to be more sexually appealing than a man but an abundance of guys has caused womens worth to be super inflated
Sex is nice, i think so and sex regularly is better but facing reality. The price you need to pay (Tons of effort, self improvement, luck and time) vs sex/love is not really a satisfactory quota
I sincerly hope female sex appeal does collapse totally so women will too feel some competition instead of how things are now where there is litterally no competition unless she creates it(which some women do for some reason)
Question is what will cause this downfall, do you think? world war 3 killing off most of the men? unlikely
Most men stop chasing women like their lives depend on it? also unlikely but could happen
If we all took a stand and stopped being so desperate we might be able to push the chase back to women so they´d feel the pressure too
>>17082890
which would make you a monumental faggot, right?
>>17082945
Right.
>>17082927
Men genuinely losing interest.
It's already happening, look at the massive spike in all these communities where men are like "yeah fuck this, it ain't worth it" like mgtow...
The problem isn't that there's an abundance of men (though it certainly doesn't help), there's so many factors that i couldn't even begin to recite but here's a few:
1) We need to learn to appreciate each other more, this whole "no homo" bullshit every time appreciation is shown, has gone too far. How else are we gonna revel in our masculinity if we don't show solidarity towards each other and help grow it? Those traits of destroying each other's confidence is a feminine trait. We have a naturally ingrained pack mentality in order to be successful hunters, wage wars, build civilizations etc.
2) No role models. Blame the single mom cancer poisoning kids' minds to hate their own father. Another great example why you can't leave women do anything by themselves or else they will completely screw up, even something as rudimentary as parenting. I am fortunate enough to have parents that are still together. Yes my dad is a cunt. All dads are cunts, that's their appeal. In the end I learned more from my dad about how the world works, because the world is the biggest cunt of all. People love their moms way too much, I don't blame them when feminazism has legitimized divorcing the husband to marry the state. Kids had to no other choice. But it's time the "deadbeat dad" myth is put to rest.
Man I can't even be fucked to go on. Basically masculinity is being unconstrained. You walk and you have a big thing hanging between your legs. A woman doesn't have that. Even that alone gives yourself a whole different dynamic. I don't think chasing after weak flabby skinned humans is part of that whole dynamic. I think it was forced on us at some point. I think that only if they get in our way we do what we do. Otherwise it's still all cool cause we have each other. Embrace your autism.
>>17083092
Well yeah but i think men are actually better at supporting eachother atleast, i mean most guys i talk to are not douchebags who need to belittle eachother although i do know some assholes who do this but they mostly get rediculed for it.
You might be on to something with the whole no role model thing but i feel like its a two part problem
Its not that a single mother household hasnt taught boys to be men but rather that it has taught girls not to like boys
Girls are the ones who are losing interest and sure if guys on masse lose interest too it might become more balanced
Guys have so much more of a sex drive than girls so we are dependent on them but they are not at all dependent on us
I do wish youre right and that men do massivly lose interest so that the dating field could become more balanced because as it is right now dating isnt fun since its a massive time sink with no pay out
>>17082516
same anon here,
again, it's equal objectification no matter if its physical, behaviorial, or compensating.
my dad was a gold digger! put me through college with the help of two divorces. it's an individual personality trait, not a gendered one.
but to your list, hitting a marked set if behaviors, appearance, and status or wealth or appearance - and tgen getting positive resppnses for those things? still not seeing a problem.
and lol so what if other people gave you shit for being with someone cos you objectofied them by their personality instead of by their tits. crey moar, ir be your own person and make your own decisions.
and BRUH i hate to be the one to break this to you, but there us no such thing as a 'true self' beyond what we communicate to other people, because human beings are vain and seek validation.
if you're struggling with self-image rn, that is not the fault of women. if you put out behaviors, words, and build up efforts and facades to get approval and companionship - nobody to blame but yourself bruh when people take at face value who or what you are.
for example, gay guy marries woman. his 'true self' is, realistically, a man who is married to a woman. the fact that he is sexually attracted to men does nothing to change the TRUTH OF HIS ACTIONS which are the only (surface) provable and measurable indicator of who or what he is.
you can't expect any goddamn person to be a mind-reader.
and look, i get it, i'm reasonably attractive and it irritates the fuck out of me when a new lady friend assumes i'm d2f just because of how i look; insulting to the point where even if i have a steady they assume i'm going to cheat.
but again that's their vanity and their flaw as individuals. plenty of women want to get to know someone better before throwing it at them. doesn't make their opinion of you any less valid, if you be sending out all kindsa misleads. fuckin duh.
>>17083124
We are still a lot more compassionate than women are to each other, but not enough to even approach our natural capacity. I should have clarified that one better.
Yeah, actually you are very right in the second point you make. Most if not all women these days seem to be closeted homosexuals. Which is another reason I personally don't wish to bother anymore.
>>17083189
I wish i kept that study i saw a few weeks ago that showed women experienced the same type of arousal from man-woman porn as they did to man-man and woman-woman porn
Basically girls have no strong preference sexually so they can infact choose sexuality
Dont know if this study is "true" in any form but that does explain alot about how girls can just turn their sex drive on and off depending on if they need something or not
>>17083092
> look at the massive spike in all these communities where men are like "yeah fuck this, it ain't worth it" like mgtow...
Except those are all low-value males, so women don't really feel any sort of loss when guys like that check out of the market.
>>17083246
>those are all low value males [citation needed]
>>17083246
Not that guy but some high or mid value guys might also be included in that spectrum
But youre likely onto something, men checking out of the market prolly do so because they find that the dating market gives them nothing
I mean fuck i can understand it, its a brutal market even if youre average looking so i wouldnt want to dream of how it is for guys who are below average with no job and fat
>>17083246
Without low value males there are no beta cυcks and without beta cυcks the market will at the very least shake hard.
>>17083223
There are like 3 of them...
And various others (like pic related) that are co-morbid. This shit will eventually hit the mainstream and then all hell will break lose. The word of a female will be equal to toilet paper.
>>17082703
OP back.
>Im...dubious about this
In my specific situation, please don't be. I can give you an internet guarantee the changes were almost measurable. I pay attention to this stuff.
I'm 5'11. I noticed a measurable change every 10 pounds of muscle I put on. I don't really know how to explain the changes to you without seeming extremely vain... so please forgive the following assessment:
>at 150
How do i say this... I mostly fucked average women. My guy friends would typically dog on me for the women I slept with. I found myself saying, "But it was a lot of fun" a lot. I only dated women I thought were attractive in addition to being good people. I had two girlfriends all through high school and college lol. My people described my girlfriends as "pretty" but never hot. You know what that means.
>195
I don't know how to describe this Utopia. I really don't. It's the little things that still get me like a girl and her friend running up to me, asking me to take a picture of them, and then hitting me with the "OMG this pic is so good r u like a photographer?" No I am not in fact a photographer but that won't stop me from sleeping with both of you tonight (this happened two weekends ago).
The only thing that changed was my level of fitness and all of the perks that come with it - the calmness, the subtle swagger feeling big. the increased moods and confidence, better sexual stamina and abilities...
>>17082703
>Where do you find em anon?
This was true before 195 and after it - you have to be able to talk to people. You don't have to be a crazy smooth PUA artist; you just have to know how to talk to people at a moment's notice and be semi-interesting. A lot of people have trouble with this.
Where do I meet em? Everywhere. Literally everywhere. At the gym. At the supermarket. On the train. Loitering in parking lots. If you're single and hot and want to get fucked... get my attention in public; I'll handle the rest.
>>17082308
The women you attract is a reflection on you, not women.
If you constantly end up dating shitty women its because you yourself are attracted to shitty women.
This board is filled with professional projectionists and you are no different. You can't paint an entire gender as shallow gold diggers just because you are a terrible judge of character.
>>17082860
>>17082858
>>17082844
>>17082828
>>17082819
>>17082815
This is like a how-to guide on becoming Donald Trump.
Terrible.
>>17083510
>le "not all" meme
>>17082884
OP here, good advice.
>How did they meet and communicate?
High school. My mother stormed up to him and demanded to know why he didn't want to talk to her after asking her to a dance. He responded that he honestly didn't see her (my mother is very short and my father quite tall).
>How were they able to tell that the other would be a good partner?
My mom knew and kept a very level head. My dad was the hot head. My mom never tried to control him in any way except to tell him what she was looking for, which were modest and appropriate goals like a family and a loyal husband. She knew instinctively that she had to also offer those things in return, which meant sex when he wanted it even if maybe she wasn't feeling up to it and keeping dicks out of her when she was lonely. She was a very spiritual woman. My dad agreed to her terms so to speak in a clear and open way. I think they lasted so long because they somehow managed to demystify love before getting married. It was practical but also sweet because my mom thought dad was hot and vice versa. Looking back it was pretty fateful and turned out well because their commitment to each other was always more important, even more important sometimes than me. They were progressive but also old fashioned in a lot of ways. Lotta love and respect for their hard work.
>Have you talked to your gfs about your worries that they're using you?
Yes of course in multiple ways according to the type of person I'm talking with. But if you think the majority of people tell the truth even to loved ones... I don't know how to prove to you otherwise. Women always say you're the best, you're the one, I love you and only you, etc. All women always say this.
>I wish guys would stop telling each other to treat women badly.
I don't treat women badly, but the definition of "badly" has rapidly become anything remotely negative. I would like to think that I treat people fairly.
(cont.)
>>17083515
It isn't a meme, its a rational conclusion.
If I'm a terrible driver and I crash every single car I own it would be pretty simple-headed of me to assume that every car on the road is a defective death trap.
That just isn't true. I'm a terrible driver, and I'm projecting my own inadequacies on to the rest of the world so I don't have to take any responsibility.
Yes, NOT ALL WOMEN ARE SHITTY. Just like not all men are shitty, not all pizza is delicious, not all black guys are good at basketball and not all mark whalberg movies feature him without a shirt on. Its a simple set of conclusions that any rational person who has been out of their house sometime in the last 10 years can come to but I'm sure you know that. You know that and you're just using "HURP DURP MEMES" as an excuse for dismissing it and not having to sincerely think about it.
Calling something a meme so you can rationalize it as a joke instead of actually having to look inside yourself and rethink your belief something is what 4chan does best.
What you offer is a big part of who you are, whether you like it or not. Similarly, you wouldn't love a female unless you were getting something from her. Not necessarily resources, maybe affection or validation. Point is, ditch that overly romanticised "love all of me, love my faults" crap and recognize that you're in a partnership of give and take. It's not about women, it's about people. We exchange things. If we have nothing to give, we're most likely gonna get dropped.
>>17082689
>Men define themselves by what they do
>no they dont
Maybe you don't, but then no wonder you're in trouble. Women aren't objectifying you. You're objectifying yourself, and doing it so thoroughly that you've lost sight of why it even means.
I am not an ally of feminism, especially not the second wave, though we do have a couple of enemies in common. What follows, however, is one of the second wave's few genuinely valuable insights.
So there's this common misconception that to "objectify" someone is to think of that person as something that is not a person, but just as a thing. But that isn't objectification. That's dehumanization: something far more evil and destructive. Objectification is something else.
Quick rehash of basic grammar: in many languages, most sentences can be broken into parts, and the most common parts are the subject, the predicate, and the object. The subject acts in some way (described by the predicate), and the object is acted upon.
This grammatical sense of the term "object" is what objectifications is really about. Objectifying someone isn't about seeing them as some kind of non-person or inanimate thing. Objectifying someone is when the things they do (i.e. as the subject) don't matter. All that matters are the things others, possibly including you, do to that person (i.e. as the object). One could draw parallels to Kim Il-sung's philosophy of Juche, which means "subject" in this same sense: he felt that Korea had been objectified by the world superpowers, and wanted to make it into a nation that did things that mattered. Which only makes the things he and his progeny have done in its name that much more horrifying, but I digress.
Now, what does this have to do with OP? Basically, you've objectified yourself. Your actions don't define you, in your eyes; they don't matter. The women you speak of are not objectifying you: they define you by what you do because they see that what you do matters. And you should too.
>>17083533
>>17082884
>At least to me, you seem to have a cynical hatred of women
Not of women, though women are the topic in this thread. All people are trash in some way, but all people also have redeeming qualities. But in the current year, anything remotely negative seems to be labeled as "hatred of women." I don't buy into this way of thinking. Pointing out negative trends and hypocrisy in observed behaviors in a subset of the species (women in this case) is not the same as misogyny, though they're easily confused.
>overall negative outlook
I try to be fair.
>You're trying to attract an untarnished personality
False. I'm trying to attract a woman who judges based on character instead of utility. They seem in very short supply.
>You might want to think about talking to her, knowing that it could lead to a break up and if that's what you want.
We've talked. She'll never leave
>>17083514
Not that guy, but that advice is actually spot on. That's basically what i did to make an ex girlfriend go from nagging me literally ever day, starting fights with me every day, expecting me to do things for her all the time... to getting whatever I wanted, when I wanted it. And I actually mean that. I have videos of her doing things she should never admit to.
And it was because I changed things like saying, "I'm sorry" all the time. Think about it - how many times a day do you apologize to someone you care about? If you're like most people, the answer is all the time.
>You accidentally left out a few dishes before starting the dish washer
>Your woman starts giving you shit
>"I'm sorry"
^^ I watch it happen with my married and long-term friends. It's little things like that - and the mental and emotional attitudes behind those behaviors - that are the cancer responsible for a lot of people's issues.
I stopped apologizing because very few things actually require an apology. People should stop being so sensitive and playing this GOTCHA! Now apologize! game they all play. And it's pretty sissy to watch my male friends apologize all the time. If I were a woman, i would be turned off too.
>OMG the trash!
>OMG the dishes!
>OMG what did you do now!
>"I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry"
Eugh.
I get fucked a lot more now.
>>17083566
That was a good post. You managed to tie Korea to objectification in the context of this post.
As for a discussion about action and value, let's save that for a minute and see that the central issue here is that women don't define men by what they do... they define men by what they do for the woman.
Difference. And that's the issue. Women aren't like, "Oh, you're intelligent and will help save lives," they're like, "Oh, you're intelligent so my babies will be intelligent / you'll be able to entertain me / you'll make more money for me and my offspring." Of course they don't think like that, but the *desire* is based on what can the man do for *me* not what can the man *do.*
Just like how women who are dating assholes say:
>Well he's not an asshole to me.
It doesn't matter that he's an asshole to *others* even though that demonstrates a shit personality or person.... it only matters what he does to her.
You see?
So I see what you're saying, but your view is very binary. Everything is either acting or being acted upon. There are qualities, like virtues and personalities, that exist in an actionless place. They just are.
Now you're right that one way we show our character and personality is through action. But we also show it through other means
>>17083645
>That's basically what i did to make an ex girlfriend go from nagging me literally ever day, starting fights with me every day, expecting me to do things for her all the time... to getting whatever I wanted, when I wanted it.
So it was a great tool to help you train your terrible girlfriend to be a glorified pet.
I mean, that's great if you're interested in dating bobble-heads and thats all you want out of a relationship. I guess I was just thinking big picture, like ACTUAL committed, loving symbiotic relationships where psychological warfare and deception aren't key tools in making the relationship work.
I guess we're just talking personal preference at this point. I've never needed to "train" any of my partners into letting me do whatever I want. I'm not interested in sharing my life with someone I treat like a dog. That's just me.
If you find yourself needing to train your horrible, nagging, petty girlfriend into "treating you like a man" then I would suggest perhaps stop dating horrible, nagging, petty women.
If you find yourself NEEDING to overcome a whole slew of negative characteristics about your girlfriend to find meaning in your relationship then maybe you're in the wrong relationship. Just a thought.
I can't imagine treating a person I genuinely love as if she isn't important and/or treating her like I have other options so unless she "shapes up" I'm going to find someone else. That's really sad, dude. Again, thats just my perspective.
