Why does /adv/ believe in the friendzone all of a sudden?
About a year or two ago, you would see posts claiming that the FZ didn't exist, and you would be called out for complaining about somebody FZing you. But now, just about any relationship advice on this board is going to be greeted with "you're going to get FZ'd if XYZ," or that the person has already been FZ'd by the object of their affection (regardless if there's sufficient information to warrant that conclusion).
And while we're on the subject, /adv/ is seemingly more misogynistic these days. Dubya-tee-eff, mates?
>>17065781
4chan all viewpoints and all subtypes, it gives no exception to adv, and certainly not gender issues. If discussion is not your thing you may find tumblr a more welcoming community.
*allows
/adv/ finally experienced the dread that is the friend zone and learned to never let some vagina push you around like that.
>>17065781
I'm a guy who got very emphatically "friend-zoned" a few months ago. She actually told me I was "such a nice guy" and a "really good friend". I didn't really understand it at the time but I genuinely loved her and that hit me really hard and it took me a very long time to get over it.
The thing is though, I never once considered it as "friendzoning". She just wasn't attracted to me and still isn't. I'm not attracted to my best friend - is he in the friendzone? I have really good gay friends I'm not attracted to, are they in the friendzone too? Am I friendzoned by them because they're not attracted to me?
The problem with the whole "friendzone" thing is that it's built on ideas of entitlement to romance in exchange for kindness or friendliness, or that friendship with someone is a negative thing that you can't break out of - like you've boxed yourself into a particular category/pigeonhole in that person's head and they therefore cannot consider you for romance. If they were actually attracted to you, then they would make the jump. I know sometimes you get friends who are attracted and don't want to "spoil a good thing" but those are really complicated and probably the only genuine "friendzone" situations out there.
I think it made things a lot simpler when I understood that my friend didn't want a romantic relationship with me because she simply wasn't attracted to me and was too nice to put it that way because she didn't want to hurt my feelings and probably hoped I'd understand that's how she felt. I don't think "what a bitch, how couldn't she want to be with me after being a good friend" because that wouldn't make any sense and it's a pretty warped way of thinking in the first place.
The whole of 4chan is becoming more and more like this unfortunately
>>17066400
>The problem with the whole "friendzone" thing is that it's built on ideas of entitlement to romance in exchange for kindness or friendliness
It isnt about entitlement but one sided atraction/love.
Girls that are friendzoned complain about it too but somehow their one sided love is something cute ahd the guy is a bastard for not loving them back. If its guy love that is one sided he's "pathetic", "creepy" and thinks himself "entitled".
>>17066449
>It isnt about entitlement but one sided atraction/love.
Unrequited love isn't new. We never called it "friendzoning" though - we understood that it was simply a situation where one person was attracted to someone who didn't reciprocate those feelings. Doesn't it make more sense to put it in those kind of terms? Otherwise it suggests women are arcane creatures who can easily box you into a certain category in their heads because you said hi to them in a certain way or something - and surely THAT'S the reason why you got rejected, not the fact that you aren't attractive to her.
The concept of a "friendzone" seems to have grown out of pick-up artist culture and other pseudo-scientific/psychological games in modern pop culture.
>Girls that are friendzoned complain about it too but somehow their one sided love is something cute ahd the guy is a bastard for not loving them back. If its guy love that is one sided he's "pathetic", "creepy" and thinks himself "entitled".
I think that's a separate societal issue.
Women have twisted the original meaning of the word. When you're friendzoned, it's a deliberate act by a woman to catch a guy that she KNOWS is interested in being something more than a friend, and leading him on. It's not the same thing as shooting someone down who asks you out.
>>17066464
>easily box you into a certain category in their heads because you said hi to them in a certain way
I was in multiple situations where the girl was really interested in me but because I did something wrong or didnt do something I was supposed to do at some specific time she lost all interest in me. They really are flimsy like this.
>>17065781
>/adv/ is seemingly more misogynistic these days.
probably because /r9k/ is infecting the board. but yeah, men in general are becoming more and more misogynistic. Alot of guys where kind of lied to by their parents, or their community. I was told growing up that women like sensitive, and nice guys, however, the reality is that they like confident guys in control of their life. anyway, i think women and men both suffer from ignorance in relation to understanding the opposite gender.
>>17066481
You know, it's possible to be a sensitive, nice guy who is also confident and in control of his life.
>>17066485
I know, I am one. But this doesnt stop me from complaining on women on this chinese cartoons imageboard.
>>17066485
from my experience, women typically see being sensitive as weakness or they find it cringy. i mean sensitive as in being easily hurt by people, someone who in control, wont really let themselves be bound by insecurities. im not talking about empathy.
>>17066485
It's a pretty tall order. And tell me, what should a woman "be" in return?
>>17066483
>men in general are becoming more and more misogynistic
Youre right in both this and that its from men thinking girls like nice and gentle guys however it is alot of thing that contribute to guys becoming more hateful toward women
Women are the gatekeepers, they hold the key to sex, love, compassion that stems from a relationship and since they screen so harshly it leaves alot of dudes asking "Whats wrong with me?" with this question burning in our minds its quite easy to rationalize that girls are horrible things who do this out of spite
And the online experience (speaking from own experience) is just terrible when it comes to advice, its either 1. Youre just ugly, ofc they dont like you but they love everyone else. kill yourself or 2. Become fit, confident and take control of your life
Both tips for most guys i know is terrible and useless since most single guys i know who cant get a date are successful, college level educated guys who have varying levels of sports interests
>>17066483
The problem with men like you is thinking that being nice and confident are mutually exclusive for men. You wouldn't want a girl to be nice but not confident enough to look after the way she looks
>>17066513
Not that guy but they are sort of mutually exclusive
If youre nice to a girl it shows weakness and girls dont like weakness because it ends with her abusing you
It actually makes sense to be colder and more distant towards her instead of nice because then she is insecure and feels like she needs to do things to keep the guy from leaving
Otherwise she would get bored and show interest to the next guy instead
>>17066518
>It actually makes sense to be colder and more distant towards her instead of nice because then she is insecure and feels like she needs to do things to keep the guy from leaving
>Otherwise she would get bored and show interest to the next guy instead
You're going to get a lot of shit for that post but it's absolutely true.
>>17066506
>Youre right in both this and that its from men thinking girls like nice and gentle guys however it is alot of thing that contribute to guys becoming more hateful toward women
this got me thinking about one thing.
3 weeks ago I travelled with 3 random girls for 3 hours. We talked about all manner of stuff and one of the topic was relationships. The girls complained that its almost impossible to find normal guys anymore. I asked what do they mean as normal and their description was like; bearded, tall, handsome, rich, easygoing, plays guitar, fit, has great car.
Maybe the problem really isnt guys but girls. Their expectations are so high that normal guys are below every girl legue.
What im saying is that if our mothers would have the same expectations of men as modern women have we all wouldnt be born as our fathers wouldnt be good enough for them.
>>17066506
yeah, i agree what you are saying. i do think men that have basically been lied to, have somewhat of a right to be a bit pissed off. and i can see why they assume women are shitty people for doing it. alot of the time its women that say they like gentle guys which is bull shit. really, what they want is a hard man, that is understanding to her feeling. women always say they hate violence but really it makes them wet as fuck when a guy is violent to other guys, this isnt gentle at all. i do boxing for example, and women love it, i also like to write poetry but women rarely give a fuck about that, and typically find it cringy. im not even complaining, just being honest. this is one thing i do not understand about women. obviously there are some girls who do genuinely like sensitive guys that read poetry to her but they are definitely the minority, and its majority that really matter.
>>17066513
haha the fuck are you talking about? i didnt say anything of the sort about women. nice assumption anyway. i would love a girl who is nice and confident enough to look after herself, i cant stand it when girls put no effort into their looks. dont know where the fuck you got this from desu.
>>17066526
>The girls complained that its almost impossible to find normal guys anymore. I asked what do they mean as normal and their description was like; bearded, tall, handsome, rich, easygoing, plays guitar, fit, has great car.
hahaha what the fuck, this girl sound so pathetic. i bet she is really fucking boring and stupid. its no i guy like that probably wouldent even bother with her. but yeah, i agree that girls can be the problem too. i think some girls rely on their looks too much. i would personally never have a relationship with a good looking girl if she has a shitty personality.
>>17066504
>It's a pretty tall order
Not really. It's the kind of person you should try to become anyway, regardless of whether women were involved.
>>17066526
>Their expectations are so high that normal guys are below every girl legue.
100% agree
>>17066528
>its majority that really matter.
Yup, although i must say i do kickboxing and BJJ and its really not helping me get girl at all
Although i am terrible to use as an example since i use headphones all the time and blow people off but its good to know there are girls out there who find that attractive
>>17066550
>i would personally never have a relationship with a good looking girl if she has a shitty personality.
No, you wouldnt but many other guys would and therein lies the problem
Most people dont want to work at McDonalds, but mcds still have tons of people working there.
Why? there are no options for them really, simple market mechanics
If youre being picky as a guy the girl can just tell you to fuck off and date one of the tens or maybe even hundreds of others guys who want to date her
You on the other hand will have to search far and wide to find a new girl and then the story repeats
>>17066569
why though? im sensitive and it definitely isnt beneficial to me. being empathetic would be better. being sensitive just makes me a pussy.
>>17066521
you are mistaking being distant and cold with being confident/assertive
It's just about having a spine and if you don't want to something to happen, then say no.
If you want something, ask for it.
But that doesn't mean you can't be a nice person. Just be nice without letting others walk over you.
>It actually makes sense to be colder and more distant towards her instead of nice because then she is insecure and feels like she needs to do things to keep the guy from leaving
How about you both need to do things to keep the other from leaving? Instead of trying to "play" power-games with your partner... you are a couple, not two individuals fighting for power in a relationship. And if you are doing that, you're doing relationships wrong.
>Otherwise she would get bored and show interest to the next guy instead
How about just not being a boring person?
>>17066572
By "sensitive" I meant empathic. Don't be a bitch.
>>17066571
yeah, it kind of shitty having high standards as a guy because desu, not that many decent women exist. the best convos i have with a girl are ugly, which is a shame because im sorry, i wouldent date someone i am not attracted to. i definitely turn down more girls than girls turn down me though.
>>17066573
>How about you both need to do things to keep the other from leaving? Instead of trying to "play" power-games with your partner... you are a couple, not two individuals fighting for power in a relationship. And if you are doing that, you're doing relationships wrong.
Im not trying to play games, im telling you what ive learned about the dating scene and what the problem is with it as it stands right now and why i think (this is ergo my opinions which this is based upon) most guys become hateful towards girls.
Ive personally had relationships and i love the compromise, caring and giving parts since it suits my personality. Im very loyal and protective regarding people i like but now that ive been single for over a year ive started to notice the hardships men face in the dating scene.
Women have very many options in the dating scene, this gives power. If me and X are in a relationship and things go rough we both know if we break up she will get a new bf within a very short period of time afterwards and ill be left alone.
Most sane people wouldnt abuse this power to gain leverage in a relationship sure, but the underlying structure is still there and will come into play if things get rough
>How about just not being a boring person?
Its not about that and this is why i hate the internets "advice" since they are useless
Im far from boring, im social and can keep people entertained very well. Im liked by most people i meet and got good hobbies
However new is always appealing and since most girls have many dating options its always tempting to explore them all, if a guy does whatever you want him to and treats you nice you know where you have him and can do whatever you want
Daniel Khaneman has wrote a book aswell called Thinking, fast and slow where he explains that humans are hardwired to avoid losses more than seek gains. If a girl thinks she could loose you as a potential partner you become more interesting since its an emotional loss
>>17065781
>Why does /adv/ believe in the friendzone all of a sudden?
>all of a sudden?
r u fkn srs
>>17066590
you claim not to play or try to play power games, yet here:
>Women have very many options in the dating scene, this gives power.
You clearly see the relationship as a powerbalance where the girls inherently have more power then guys.
This simply is not true.
So what she can get a new BF in a couple od days? Is that indicative of the so called power she had in your relationship? No.
It's clear to most people, including me, that it is much easier to woman to be courted, specially if they are physically pretty. But that is the phase between relationships, not inside the relationship.
In your view, you are actually giving girls the power over you, because you are basically saying, it better for you to lose me, then for me to lose you.
And that is not true.
>Second part
If you write it like this, I will partially agree, but the way it was worded in the post I quoted, it implied something quite different.
Yes, new is more appealing for most people, but there lies what I'd object to when presented with the argument this way.
There are ways to present new things into a relationship, the thing where the previous post said boring, I'd interject "stale".
And a stale relationship is doomed to fail for sure, that is why they need to evolve in time, to new things, to get new goals to struggle with.
>>17066590
good post. just wanted to say that often women will talk to a bunch of guys while they are in a relationship, they will claim they are friends, but really, they are potential partners. due to social media, the dating game has become way too unbalanced, it has always been competitive for guys, but before the internet, it would be a handful of guys, now its hundreds. all a girl has to do is make a tinder, or go on a dating site, and she will get hundreds of matches or messages. also there is the whole impact of Christianity that has made women feel shameful to seek sex. Also its not even hard for women to look fuckable, they can just wear make up.
>>17066573
I wish I could be as naive as you. I don't mean to be a dick or anything but hate the game, not the players.
In my experience, when a girl knows you're head over heels for her she kinda loses interest. You're no longer a challenge nor something she can fix and thus the interest is gone. I'm not happy about it but it is what it is. I could spend my nights crying about it or I could do what I did, which is adapting to the situation and making the best of it.
I hope you have an open mind and at least try to see where I'm coming from.
>>17066615
>Is that indicative of the so called power she had in your relationship? No.
Well, lets conduct a thought experiment then
Guy X and girl Y are in a relationship, things are going good and they enjoy eachothers company. We will assume they both enjoy being in a relationship much more than being single and that this feeling is equal between them.
Most relationships have fights and rough patches, maybe all relationships do but we will assume our couple does.
Who will stand to loose more if the relationship ends? Guy X ofc since, as you said, its easier for women to be courted. This in turn gives us the conclusion that she will have it easier to find a new partner, whereas Guy X will most likely be left alone or need to court many women and face alot of rejection and heartbreak to even return to the same position
Lets now assume guy X is average in every single way and that girl Y rates guys on a bell curve so she is very likely to find a guy who is equal to or greater than guy X
Since a breakup is however emotionally devastating for both parts we assume none of them want this but we know if things go sour and they do break up he will loose so much more than her
its not about me giving power, its about her having power
If i dont choose to work at Mcdonalds, they can replace me. Doesnt matter how good or great i am. someone else can fill that base need if i dont want to do it
As for the second part, im mostly talking in the "get the girls attention stage" and not the relationship stage. at that point you got her so its "safer" for you but i agree with you on that you still need to keep it from going stale
>>17065781
>Why does /adv/ believe in the friendzone all of a sudden?
Of course the friendzone exists. The big lie surrounding it isn't that women have one; the lie is that men don't. The theory as commonly practiced is nothing more than a bunch of creepy men trying to rationalize their refusal to see women as anything but something to fuck as an immutable quirk of biology, rather than a chosen attitude.
>>17066629
I do actually understand where you are coming from. You got hurt several times in the past.
And that is okay, so did I.
But instead of blaming the issues solely on women, I also took a look at myself and men in general.
And I found that both sexes do ridiculous shit in relationships and in my opinion, that is what is causing the fall of traditional relationships, where now it's a pretty big hook-up culture instead of the previous dating culture.
BTW, I'm in a great relationship, where I am a nice, but assertive person. And it is working out quite beautifully for more then a year right now.
And she does know how much I love her and I do know how much she loves me.
When it poses no problems for me, I do stuff for her, but I don't let her get away with silly/shitty stuff, then I'll call her up on it and won't let it go through.
I don't need to act cold to keep her with me. All it takes is some genuine human interaction, where we go and talk about our problems and find a solution.
As for an example.
During the last exam period, i'd always tell her, that I think she will do fine in all of her test, because from what I saw, she was passing through most of them without any problems, yet was still telling me, that she will fail all of them (you know, just being nervous and a bit scared of them).
One day she told me, that this pisses her off, that she actually has some tests she genuinly has lucked off or knows, she will most likely fail if she does not have great luck on her side.
So I told her fine, I will not tell you, you will pass everything easily, under the condition, that you will honestly evaluate your chances when we talk about your exams.
And since that talk, this issue has vanished, because we talked about it and solved it.
>>17066641
So you DO think of a relationship as a power game, because that is all you are talking about all the freaking time man.
This thought experiment of yours talks nothing about the fact, that during the relationship, trying to play a power-game will just make it a unhappy relationship, where at least you, but more likely both of you, aren't partners, but two competitors for the position of who is in charge of the relationship.
That is not how a long term relationship should work.
I will agree that often it does, but you should rather be working to get rid of this power games by being a person who is not a part of them rather then trying to find a "winning strategy".
>>17066666
No! FUCK YOUUUUUUUUU
>GETTTTTT
it's just the evolution of language, where previously you would have to say she rejected you because she isnt attracted to you for whatever reason, now you just say you got friendzoned.
Nothing more, nothing less, just evolution of language.
>>17066656
Then I sincerily hope you guys make it. I also hope I find someone who is willing to talk about the problems in the relationship honestly as opposed to looking for validation elsewhere.
Good luck mate. I wish you well.
>be dude with no friends
>mfw reading this shit
y'all need to learn to appreciate the things you have
>>17066666
>So you DO think of a relationship as a power game, because that is all you are talking about all the freaking time man.
its not a game where you seek the power but think about it, who stands to loose more?
I can tell you im not the same person now that i was when i had my relationship, i was loving, caring and compassionate
After a year of being single those qualities are esentially dead to me because all they did was cause me to get hurt.
I mean my exgf got a new bf days after our breakup and i started dating a month after, that girl who i was kind but assertive to really fucked me up, i came home wanting to kill myself because after a while of her not answering texts or calls i figured "fuck it" and went out with a few friends only to find her drunk and in the arms of another dude
Turns out she abused me and basically told me what i wanted to hear( we were exclusive and she wanted a relationship etc)
Being single really fucked me up because its a lonely place my friend, and ive always wanted to avoid it which is natural
During the relationship youre not activly seeking power over her but she WILL have power over you because she can replace you.
Sure, breakups are hard for girls too but girls can and do choose if they want to be single or not. Guys dont have that luxury
>>17066683
I know I'm going to sound like a dick but I assure you it's simple curiosity:
How does one not have any friends? It's really easy to make them.
>be guy
>meet chick
>realize she's pretty awesome
>start to have feelings for her
>get respected
>that evening she's complaining on Facebook and whatever about how all men want sex
Why wouldnt i want to be in a relationship with a girl i really like?
I think it's retarded that someone it's more effective to just go eyy bby u want som fuk at a strange girl than trying to get to know her, because then you're a creep.
>>17066666
>66666
oh god
>>17066666
>>17066690
>I think it's retarded that someone it's more effective to just go eyy bby u want som fuk at a strange girl than trying to get to know her, because then you're a creep.
Its easier to get a casual hookup because that needs the girl to make a mistake, a relationship needs more of a commitment and girls dont do that
>>17066765
>a relationship needs more of a commitment and girls dont do that
/thread
/internet
/life
>>17066689
>It's really easy to make them.
easy for you maybe
i never figured it out, never had any close friends
only friends at all were weirdos, autists, all kinds of freaks, and we were only "friends" since we didn't have any real ones
now im in college and it's kinda late for shit like "hey x, do you want to be friends?"
>>17066773
If you're willing to possibly sacrifice your happiness you can always find some guy who pities you enough to teach you how to be normal.
>>17065781
It's more complicated than the friend zone
Some guys are put in the "he's like a brother" box or the "no chance in hell" box. No matter how they move on or improve, she won't see them that way
Others are put in the "IDK he could change any minute so let him be my backup plan/beta orbiter box". These guys are the ones who get friend zoned like the rest but actually have a chance in attracting her if he moves on from her
The friend zone is a collective term for the kinds of social standings one is classified in the eyes of the person they like. Never listen to words. See their actions
>>17066773
LOL at that fightingitout pic. post more please
GIRL HERE
There is no way to know if you are in 'the friend zone' unless you've already asked her out and she said no.
If you are just friends, that can often bud into a relationship. Don't expect the girl to initiate it, you have to actually ask her.
>>17066411
It's always been there but ever since the influx of reddit and the loss of many oldfags it's been a steady freefall. There's still a lot of functional people here, but we've just up and abandoned certain boards.
>>17066400
>The problem with the whole "friendzone" thing is that it's built on ideas of entitlement to romance in exchange for kindness or friendliness
No it's based on the fact that men are compelled to initiate romance with women, but they are cultured to not be forthright. So men attempt to court a woman, only to find in the end that they've miscalculated in their social posturing, and aren't seen as a romantic partner by their object.
The "friendzone" is about women, wasting men's time. Then they act like the man is a bastard for "using friendship" or whatever the fuck. As though a woman wanting to have a bunch of male friends is somehow more noble than a man wanting to have a single female lover.
Women don't owe men sex, but neither do men owe women friendship, and the fact of the matter is, a male-female friendship is not equitable. Men, even when they don't expect sex, will treat a woman with greater deference and courtesy and PROTECTION than she will treat him. That's just a part of our culture. Women get more out of a man's friendship than men get out of a woman's.
>>17066571
>Yup, although i must say i do kickboxing and BJJ and its really not helping me get girl at all
>Although i am terrible to use as an example since i use headphones all the time and blow people off but its good to know there are girls out there who find that attractive
This reply is pathetic. Kickboxing and a good body will help you get a girl? Walking around in headphones will make you more attractive?
Do you also place a bag in front of the entrance to the super market and hope that someone will fill them with the groceries you need and deliver them to your door?
Getting a girl has nothing to do with these superficialities. The game is purely about confidence and social skills. You'd know this if you hadn't been so busy trying to look mysterious at a corner with your headphones.
The problem is that you guys not only lack confidence, but have probably not even felt it in your entire lives - you don't even know what it is! Girls are good at reading body language and if you're insecure, they will sniff it out like a dog smells sausage.
It has nothing to do with treating women like a dick even, you just need self-respect. Lots of men with beautiful wives or girlfriends or who are simply good at picking up girls are outstandingly good and honest people. You can be both confident and nice.
The best thing you can do for yourself is to work on your self-respect, and start talking to people. Whatever people you can find. People on the bus, or at a café. Do whatever's necessary to just... be comfortable in your own skin. Believe it or not, it comes before women, not as a result of it.
>>17067598
haha what the fuck? he didnt even say that that kickboxing and a good body helps him get a phone, and he said that he accidentally ignored people due to listening to music. its like you read something else.
>>17067598
Also, I recommend this book:
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf
No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover. It will probably hit you like a brick, but it's time to wake up from the fantasy you live in.
>>17067618
first he needs to learn how to read.
>>17067629
The mentality of the poster he replied to is pretty obvious if you read between the lines. He's not wrong.
>>17067668
yeah, i know, i was just joking.
>>17066485
What was the point in this comment
>>17065781
The friend zone is simply rejection you have yet to accept.
