I've been with my gf 3.5 years now, and we have a daughter who is 2 in may, our relationship and sex life are pretty good. Recently she started hinting, then more bluntly saying she wants to get married.
There is absolutely no way I will be getting married, and she is starting to get quite sourt about it.
I'm hoping it'll all blow over soon, but other than that, is there anything I can do to make her forget about the idea?
Why don't you want to get married? There are logical benefits to doing so, and ways to protect yourself against possible risks.
>>17031944
Why are you opposed to marriage?
Did you make it known you dont want to get married from the start of the relationship? Or you know.. when you had a kid?
>>17031950
>>17031949
Well I've got a lot of assets for one, and I want to keep them if we ever split.
I don't care whether or not you or her are for or against marriage, this should have been discussed and agree upon before the relationship got serious and certainly before you had a child.
>>17031955
Just get a prenup, dumbass
>is there anything I can do to make her forget about the idea?
Have a better discussion about it. She's only asking because she thinks it'll happen eventually. However you've communicated to her that it won't--regardless of how effective you think that communication has been--it hasn't gotten through. She's not acting on the basis of "he's not going to marry me, now what?" Throw away your playbook and start fresh. The only way out is to get her to understand the facts instead of operating on feelings.
>>17031958
>prenups are respected 100% of the time
I've already had one friend almost made destitute by divorce, thankfully I had a spare home at the time that he could stay in for a year while he got himself back on his feet.
>>17031962
You already have a daughter with this woman. Soon enough a paper saying you're married won't even matter in case she ever goes after your money. A prenup might only increase your defense power. Talk to a lawyer about it and see what he recommends.
>>17031968
>a paper saying you're married won't even matter
exactly, so why is she so desperate for it
>>17031944
>is there anything I can do to make her forget about the idea?
Nope. Women crave commitment, it's part of their nature. Get used to her being sour or leaving you. Although if you don't want to marry her I guess you must want to be rid of her eventually anyway?
>>17031978
>Although if you don't want to marry her I guess you must want to be rid of her eventually anyway?
She has a sexual past, so I don't trust her.
That aside, we have a pretty good relationship, so I'd happily stay with her for as long as the going is good.
>>17031954
>>17031957
OP needs to answer these. Somewhere along the way, both of them royally fucked up if they forgot to discuss this.
You have a daughter together, and don't plan to split any time soon, right? Why not just get married?
>>17031988
>Why not just get married?
Because I don't want to, simple enough really
>>17031955
What is a prenuptial agreement ?
In 3 more years it won't matter if your in a common law jurisdiction.
It really doesnt matter now , as she can rape you for child support.
>>17031993
Do you have any reasons or are you just a child?
>>17031974
Marriage sometimes matters to people for reasons beyond the practical. She may want to be married just to be able to call you her husband rather than 'partner' or 'boyfriend'.
You could always just start a long engagement while you think about it. It gives her an inch, but gives you time to think and prepare more.
>>17031999
>are you just a child?
Well, I'm 31 so not a child by any stretch of the imagination, do you have any valid reasons or just personal attacks?
>>17032011
I'm not the one here with the problem and I'm not the one here asking for advice. Do you have any reasons for not getting married beyond the childish "I don't want to" or not?
>>17032020
I do have one reason, a lack of reasons TO get married.
>>17032027
So you really have no good reasons to not get married. Good luck with the future then, I really don't have much advice for someone who won't help us help them.
>>17032027
Get a prenup you fucking retard. Or do you honestly want to get fucked over by this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage
>>17032035
Not OP but I'd say that "no benefit, non-zero risk" is a well constructed reason. I don't agree that he lacks benefit since he stands to lose his relationship over this; keeping it would be a benefit. But that's a separate issue than him not providing a reason.
>>17032035
I don't think you understand how "advice" works. You give your thoughts on a subject and the person considers your thoughts. There is no rule or law spoken or unspoken that says you have to follow the advice someone gives you. Stop being assmad because there is someone out there who doesn't share your opinion on marriage.
>>17032027
Tax breaks and visitation rights
>>17032035
>So you really have no good reasons to not get married
I'm still waiting for a reason to get married. The fact that the risks outweigh the benefits(none) is good enough
>>17032058
>Tax breaks and visitation rights
The tax breaks were almost completely abolished, only recently making a return of a tiny £202/year
>>17032058
(Not OP) Tax breaks yes, but visitation rights (at least in the US) can be given through separate paperwork that does not require marriage.
If you don't your daughter will not respect you when she's older, and being a shitty father will make everyone lose what little respect they have in you. Just leave your woman already, she won't want to raise a kid with another child.
>>17032108
>being a shitty father
How would that make me a 'shitty father'
Did you ever make it clear you didn't believe in marriage early on in the relationship?
Got no advice on topic, but be sure not to marry her because girls and financial retards tell you so.
>>17032177
He's avoided the question twice so I'm assuming he did not.
You should have made it clear that you are not interested in getting married before you had a child with her. This somehow just cruel that you go through so many things together, create a human and then don't want to marry at all.
I mean I feel like marriage is what you talk about as soon as the relationship gets serious. Of course you don't say you would get married straight away but that you are interested in getting married someday.
Of course it's totally normal you don't want to but you should be close enough to her to discuss this normally and give your reasons.
Of course there's the obvious benefit that the pretty good relationship and sex will drain away if you get married... Oh wait, you wanted reasons TO get married.
I can completely see where op is coming from and if I had the chance I would choose his direction and avoid marriage.
He has probably seen it before, and I have certainly seen perfectly good relationships deteriorate to nothing once she has him trapped in marriage. It seems to be a difference between men and women. Some women use the smokescreen of a good relationship to leave behind her 'past' and get the outwardly clean social status of marriage (but could care less once the ring is on).
Sadly OP... IMHO your relationship is doomed as this marriage thing between you two will nibble away at her and spoil a good thing anyway. Women don't understand the concept of a good thing, or losing one.
>>17032121
You're obviously not planning to stay with the mother. You're prioritizing yourself over the family. Any man knows a healthy childhood is one where the father and mother are prevalent. If you're planning on sticking around anyway, then marriage is just a little label that your woman wants. It's a declaration that you will be faithful to her, that you will strive for the betterment of the family. I don't believe in the sanctity of marriage or that the ceremony or label even matters, but if that's what the mother of my child wanted I would go through with it for her sake,and for my child's sake. I would put their needs before my wants. You however prefer to run from responsibilities like that. You don't care about your woman or your child enough to say that you'll stay with them. That is why you're a shitty father.
>b-but she'll take my stuff
She already has. And she gave half of her stuff too. And you both put it into that child. If you don't care for that child's needs more than what you want you are a shitty father.
>>17032177
I'm assuming he did it because he knew she'd leave him if he said he outright wasn't. Also probably why he knocked her up a year in - to use the child as a tether to force the woman to stay with him. That and probably fucking bareback all the time and not giving a shit about the responsibilities or consequences.
Oh... I forgot the advice...
Get a shit hot lawyer that will destroy her of you need it.. Then explain the difference between having her life and child ruined or coming on a fantastic holiday as a family to cement your joy at just being alive.
It will be a tricky sell.
If you have always been honest and clear with her that you will never get married, then she has no valid argument to insist.
Marriage is a multi billion dollar industry annually for attorneys. No man or woman wins a divorce, and far worse for the children.
Instead of marriage, Incorporate. All assets in the child's name. You have your job as father, she has her job as mother. That will never change. You have to work together, even if you decide to date other people.
marriage is enslavement
a marriage license was once a certificate of ownership of a woman. Today, it is ownership of a man.
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy." - Abraham Lincoln
Abolish slavery.
Clean up corruption in our justice system.
NEVER get married.
>>17031981
>She has a sexual past, so I don't trust her.
And yet you had a kid together. So despite her sexual past, you decided to have unprotected sex and start a family.
What drugs do you do in your spare time OP? Or is this just b8?
>>17032235
Marriage is funding terrorism
>>17032203
I never lied to her, it just never came up. Perhaps she was just always waiting for a proposal, until eventually she just brought the subject up herself now
>>17032224
>You're obviously not planning to stay with the mother
I am, hopefully at the very least until our child is fully grown up, perhaps until we die.
>Any man knows a healthy childhood is one where the father and mother are prevelent.
I agree, and hopefully we will stay together indefinitely. The fact that you've said 'shitty father' 4 times isn't going to change anything.
>>17032229
>probably fucking bareback all the time and not giving a shit about the responsibilities or consequences.
What's wrong with fucking bareback?
>>17032368
honestly at this point why are you trying to get advice, you're calling other people out for not giving you advice but you're ignoring all the actual facts about how you're probably already married by law.
Also >>17032224 has a point
>>17032368
So if you're going to stay with her anyway what's the big fucking deal in letting her throw a little party and being happy about it? All you have to do is the exact same thing you would anyway except you wear a piece of metal on your finger for all of it. But you've thrown a stick in your own spokes now by saying no, and you're plain thick if you couldn't realize it. You've made it look like you have some hidden agenda, like you're fucking someone else or you plan to leave het.
If you seriously don't want to go through with marriage you're going to have to talk about what you should have talked about the second you knew she was pregnant. You'll be lucky if she doesn't harbour a growing resentment towards you now, or feel emotionally undersupported and look for validation elsewhere. It's nothing special for men but women need that symbolism to prove that concept of a future with someone, whereas men are satisfied simply with the foreknowledge. You're going to have to talk long and hard with her without freaking out. As long as you can remain calm and sensitive to her reasons or lack thereof, you'll be able to have a civilized discussion. This means not just striving to 'win' the argument - I have a feeling that with such polarized views and volatile reactions this could easily come down to the ultimatum of marry her or she'll leave you - and where will that leave your child, how will it be fair to her? Think not of yourself, nor of your wife's desires, but what is best for the person who will carry your blood when yours runs in your veins no more.
>>17032386
common law marriage doesn't hold water
too many illegal aliens tried to use it as a basis for citizenship.
"I performed wifely duties in the home for 3 years, I should own the home now, and be a citizen" "I'm not just a dirty maid"
>>17032421
>So if you're going to stay with her anyway what's the big fucking deal in letting her throw a little party and being happy about it?
As other anons of said, maybe a 'long engagement' is a route to go down, so many she can have a party
It's not like I previously promised a marriage and backed out later, I'm not in the wrong here. She has suddenly brought this up and disturbed the status quo, She's been happy up until now without the marriage, and she can continue to be after.
It's unlikely she'll leave me, because she'll almost certainly never find anyone better, by virtue of the fact her becoming a single mother will massively decrease her 'value' in the dating market, and the fact I'm wealthier than average.
If she were to be so mentally unstable as to split up over this (she very likely won't) then is she really the sort of person I want to marry anyway?
>>17032368
>it just never came up.
Oh boy you both fucked up bad.
>>17032475
I don't think it's that uncommon, often a woman just waits endlessly for a proposal, eventually to be disappointed.
>>17032477
Common or not, it's not good. If both people discussed this early, there would be no problem. People would find someone they are compatible with and it would all work out.
>>17032477
It's very weird. If you date, and ESPECIALLY if kids are involved, future plans like marriage should DEFINITELY be discussed properly
>>17032500
I think the assumption was just we would continue how we are. I didn't want marriage, and because she never brought it I didn't think she did either.
>>17032477
it's a bit odd, honestly. after some period of time, it's something that would come into your head. unless OP had stated beforehand that he had no intention of getting married or they were both in the mindset that marriage was just not a step they wanted to take, it eventually comes to the surface for one person or another.
>>17032459
>mentally unstable
it would be weird to end a relationship because you wouldn't want to get married but i wouldn't be surprised that she's bothered by it. i think the thing is that you should have said it earlier on in the relationship. it would have saved you a lot of trouble
>then is she really the sort of person I want to marry anyway?
well you don't want to get married, so that shouldn't even be crossing your mind.
>>17032518
>eventually comes to the surface for one person or another.
and it has, now.
>>17032507
Assumptions do not belong in a relationship. Everything needs to be communicated.
>>17032507
Listen now, OP. You just ASSUMED. And so did she, to be quiet frank. That's not how this works. It's extremely imature and inefficient. What you do is as follows:
You make sure you two can have an uninterruped talk. Then you sit her down and tell her that there's a problem. Tell her that both of you failed to have this talk a long time ago and now you are here with pretty opposite values and life goals. Tell her that you would like to find a solution for this. Tell her that you lovw her and that you value your little family higly, but that you never intended to get married. Tell her you are sorry you didn't do your part of clearing that up in right away when things got serious. Tell her that you want this conversation to end with a solution you both can life with. Be open to make a COMPROMISE! you can't expect her to go to your side all the way. This is a big one. You both will have to compromise to make a deal out of it. During all of this, keep in mind that you do this for your daughter. What would you think of a guy who impregnates her and then refuses to get married? Do you want to teach her that it's ok to be treated like a disposable breeding machine? Do you not want something better for her? Somebody who values her and isn't afraid to show that in every possible way? The way a dad threats a mom is THE most important influence you probably have in the life of your daughter. Don't fuck that up for selfish reasons
>>17032507
most women don't think about marriage until they meet a man they want to spend the rest of their lives with. Especially when they are already married or dating someone.
Her man Jamal don't make enough to support her. She need alimony to live comfortably with that BBC, and for that she has to get some sucker to marry her.
>>17032553
>What would you think of a guy who impregnates her and then refuses to get married
As long as he sticks around, that's fine.
Compromise is one thing, getting married is beyond that.
OP, from her perspective you're acting very fishy. You have a child together, and yet you still don't want to get married? She has some valid questions and this issue is not going to go away. What will you tell her when she presses you for a reason?
>>17031958
>>17031962
Pre nups get thrown out all the time. Good on you OP if your girl gets salty about it you've dodged a bullet. Marriage is an out dated practice anyway and offers no benefits from the male side
>>17032235
Underrated post
>>17032600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCpBa4ITEcI
>>17032592
This is all you got out of my post? Then you are a lost cause. I'm sorry.
you seem extremely stuck up on this. And this fact makes it even worse that you didn't talk about it earlier. You have a rather controversial view on marriage. Having such an "out of line" view on something should be clearly communicated to avoid devastating scenarios.
I did never say that this compromise involves you "giving in" to marriage. What exactly that solution looks like is up to the two of you. But be prepared that the boundaries for a compromise you two have might be too far from each other to find an agreeable ground and come to terms with it.
>>17032600
I asked her for a reason TO get married, and her responses basically consisted of 'just because' and 'weve been together almost 4 years already'
>>17032507
What a lie. You weren't assuming, you were hoping she wouldn't want it. Then you deceived her by avoiding the subject, just like you try to avoid it with us. Tactical definitions and hiding behind words won't benefit you.
>>17031955
They can still get those because you will be considered common law married anyway. Only chance is if you get a really solid prenup and even then it is no guarantee.
>>17032608
Let's look at the facts. There is no reason TO get married, the only semi-valid reason I've heard is tax breaks, and they amount to £220/year. We could just continue as we are, nothing changing perfectly fine, she has thrown this spanner in the works.
ITT: a reasonable OP and the parade of faggots on their high horses. If the man doesn't want to get married he doesn't want to get married. And none of the advice I've seen so far has been anything other than "you should get married because it's what you do" and "you're a shitty father of you don't get married" (lol what?)
>>17032235
Well if the government would just stay out of marriage it would be fine. I would like it to be a purely religious thing. Marriage is one of the seven sacraments after all. The government has to stick their nose into everything though.
>>17032459
Lolol i like how all males think that a single woman with a child is going to have a hard time finding someone. In the real world most girls are single mom's nowadays. So no its not hard for her to find someone else. I know a lot of single mom's that find really nice guys that love them and their child and i know a lot of guys that are with single mom's.
Plus, there are single dads out there too, not just moms.
>>17032636
>i like how all males think that a single woman with a child is going to have a hard time finding someone
I didn't say she would have a hard time finding someone, but she'll have to settle far lower down than she previously would have.
>>17032612
I'm about to get married this summer. And the reason is simply because it is another way to show how much we love each other. It's a promise that we will try everything we can to make this work. It's that i can't wait to see him wear that ring. It means that we "belong to each other". I want to tell him infront of the "whole world" (iow extended family and friends), that i love him and how much he means to me and that i will do everything i possibly can to make this work. It might be nonsense because it's "just a paper", but it holds immense sentimental value. It's a promise that we won't just give up if we run into obstacles. And it makes us more of a team. It's only about lots of symbolic display of how much we love each other.
Not trying to "convince" you. I just tried to give you an insight on why it might be important to your gf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs82rCR-yro
>>17032644
I think your a bit vain then op.
>>17032646
So you don't "belong to each other" when you're in a committed relationship? A fancy day of dress up and an album on Facebook is a poor expression of love
>>17032646
>because it is another way to show how much we love each other
You love each other so much you need the government to issue a certificate confirming that?
Honestly if it was just a priest giving a religious blessing I'd be fine with that, but marriage is a legal document now, not just a blessing from god.
>>17032646
And if it doesn't work out, you get half of his stuff while has to pay alimony and become a poorfag.
Yeah, nah. Not OP by the way.
>>17032644
women with young children can easily find a husband
don't assume that pedos are poor, most are well off and can offer a woman a good home.
they even give her free alcohol and drugs
>>17032665
Lol
>>17032655
It was never just a blessing from god from the beginning either. It was taken extremely seriously and if either one commited adultry they got killed for it. Still happens in some countries too.
>>17032675
Maybe if women were killed for cheating today, rather than given half your assets, I'd be much more inclined to get married.
>>17031955
you're better off burying that money in your parents back yard which is more safer then a prenup
Just get a pre-nup from a good lawyer. You're actually more protected that way than if you are to keep living with her and become married under common law.
Also, she'll resent you if you don't marry her, and then when she gets really fed up with your shit you'll be all tfwnogf while she rapes you in court for child support and alimony. :^)
>>17032652
It might be a poor expression of love for YOU. but not everybody has the same views you have. And besides, it's just ANOTHER way of expressing love. Maybe you do everything else already and are looking for ways you haven't tried yet?
>>17032655
Well, its not about "confirming it". It's about expressing it. And sure, i agree with you on this one. But it is also an expression of trust and love to do this leap of faith and get in to a "vulnerable state" legaly.
>>17032656
Yes i probably would. But i would never trade those things for the man i love. Sure, this is just a promise i make. There's no way of proofing that i will keep that promise other than "time will tell".
but if you marry a girl who would rather have her kids grow up in a "ripped apart family" just to "get your money", then i seriously question your ability to make sensible decisions. Maybe not marry a golddigger to begin with?
>>17032079
Are you fucking serious?
You made a thread and failed to mention that you're in the UK, which is highly relevant.
>>17032035
this, OP is a retard
>>17032682
Live in UK, common law marriage doesn't apply here.
>>17032689
I hope we stay together for as long as possible, ideally until one of us dies. That's my hope, that's the ideal scenario.
However, reality states that might not be the case, reality states that there is a significant possibly what would be our marriage would end in divorce.
You're essentially putting everything you own on Red.
If black comes through, you lose all your stuff, if Red comes through you get to keep your stake, but gain nothing. About just not betting in the first place?
>>17032689
>then i seriously question your ability to make sensible decisions
You shouldn't question it, for I don't want to get married and thus I'm not exposed to golddiggers. Look, I get it, you're a good girl and all and perhaps you legit love the guy but today's society has made it a huge risk for us men when it comes to marriage and you cannot blame a man for refusing to take that risk. It's just not worth it.
>>17032689
So how does anything in your relationship change after you get married? Other than your husband having a massive hammer hanging over his head 24/7 and you being able to fuck him sideways if you get bored.
Face it, you want your big fancy wedding day with your bridesmaids cooing and showering you with compliments. You want your family to see that you're a big girl now that you've got a man wrapped around your finger. You want the pictures and the flowers and to be showered with gifts. That's your idea of an expression of "love"
You know what you aren't ready for? The ETERNITY you will spend with him no matter what in sickness and health and all that bullshit. Your husband loses his job and you take a quality of life cut? Tough shit. But since you are a woman you aren't thinking about that eventuality, you just want your big day.
>>17032678
>Maybe if women were killed for cheating today, rather than given half your assets
not just half your assets. she get's the house, child support, alimony, legal expenses, utilities, and the BBC for the rest of her life.
Even if her new boyfriend rapes the children, the law says she keeps them. less than 1% of fathers get custody, even when the wife cheated.
The courts refuse to allow a father custody, even when the mother is on death-row.
The laws are insane, and need to change.
Until they do, don't get married.
>>17032708
Well, honestly i don't give a shit about statistics. If it doesn't work for a lot of people, so what? That doesn't HAVE to aply to me too. A lot of those people got married for ALL the wrong reasons to begin with. (because that's what one does/because they got pressured into it/ because they feel obliged to/there's an unplanned kid or pregnancy/because they want a fancy wedding/to show off to friends and family and other UTTER horseshit) That those marriages didn't work out is obviouse. And then, a huge part of couples can not even do basic communication (just like you and your gf. It IS very adviseable that you two don't marry till you figure that out). That those end in divorce is pretty inevitable too.
And yes, it is "putting everything on red". But that's the whole purpose. It's this unconditional trust and a bit idiotic enthusiasm that makes all the difference. It's about making each other feel wanted, no matter what it takes.
>>17032716
Actually, we plan a very small and modest wedding. But i won't bother to try and convince you. You seem to have your opinion set in stone and refuse to believe that it CAN be different. That's fine. I can respect people having different values and opinions than me. It just strikes me as a bit sad to actually have such a bad outlook on something that can be quiet wonderful.
men may make 10% more income than women
in jobs not related to the sex trades, but women make 1,000,000% more in divorce. And her attorney gets a big cut of that.
My cousin got married, but the drunk priest didn't send in the paperwork. Saved him a fortune when she tried to get divorced.
>>17032618
Lawyer here, most if not all states have done away with common law marriage.
...and the states some hold out states require the couple to hold themselves out as married
OP shouldn't be worried.
>>17032736
As a woman, logic is basically beyond you, but I'mm gonna try one more time. Two scenarios.
>I don't marry, but we end up staying together anyway
I lose about £8,000 in tax breaks, don't spend £5,000, overall I lose about £3,000
>I do marry then divorce
I lose hundreds of thousands of pounds, maybe a million is the property bubble is even bigger in 15 years.
>>17032714
Oh, i am not blaming ANYBODY. You are fully entitled to having this opinion on marriage. My goal itt was just to let you see the other side for once. You know, for empathic reasons and to broaden your horizont. Atleas that's what i like to do when i find myself in a situation where my opinion clashes with those of people i love. I try to see their side too and ubderstand where they are coming from. It wasn't my intent to lecture anybody.
>>17032736
>Well, honestly i don't give a shit about statistics.
I don't care for reality, I prefer fantasy.
>>17032758
So, you are willing to loose your family over money? That's - quiet next level to be honest...it's just money. Why is it so important to you? Why is it worth more to you than a happy and stable family? Did you grow up poor? Genuinely interested! Not trying to "make you look like the superficial guy".
>>17032764
Yes i do. Because else i could just go and kill myself. What is lofe worth if you assume the worst anyways? It's called a positive outlook on life. I don't need to introduce unnecessary negativity. There's a difference between fear and healthy respect.
>>17032746
And you speak from experience when you talk about how wonderful marriage is? You've also posted about how you don't give a shit about statistics, when the statistics are quite clear that marriage is a bad bet for MEN. You can try and deny it all you want, but statistics do not lie, and no matter how "different" you think your marriage will be you've got a 50/50 shot of it falling apart.
In all honesty you seem like a wide eyed, very naive girl
>>17032778
sponsoring terrorism
As a woman, you would advise her to threaten to take away his child, if he doesn't sign a paper and give her a ring?
>>17032778
Why would she be willing to lose her family over a small party and a ring?
I grew up moderately wealthy, and have made quite a bit more since.
I'm quite happy to throw a barbeque for her, and even buy her a ring, but signing my own financial death certificate is not something I would do, no.
>>17032784
what is love.
I Honestly hope you find out someday.
I have been in love, I have loved, and I am loved.
I am also not married.
>>17032785
No i obviously don't.
And yes, it might be naive to be hopefull it will work. i rather be naive af and happy than rely on statistics and be miserable.
Why do you read that 50/50 thing as something negative? You also have the same amount of possibility that it will work out. How's that bad? How's that bad if you take conscious measurements that STATISTICALLY push you heavy to the side of marriages that work out?
I completely agree that OP (and his gf) totally fucked themselves over by not discussing this early on, but I also agree that (legal) marriage is bunk and needs total reform if it's going to do any good again.
OP, suggest that you two do a ceremonial marriage without the legal aspect. Maybe you can compromise with that and both be happy.
>>17032792
Wel, well, you just found a solution that might be perfect. This is the first time itt you showed your will to compromise. Tell her this! Tell her that she can get her ceremony, the ring and all, but without the legal consequences. I know i would be up for this in a heartbeat. The legal paper means jackshit to me. The things i want is the promises and the ring. Everything else is not necessary. The only thing that might be a downside is that she won't be able to take on your name this way. Something i look forward to quiet a bit. But that would then be HER side of the compromise. And besides, maybe she would have wanted to keep her name anyways.
>>17032819
I'd be down for this, As it's the ultimate prenup, but don't think she would settle for this
>>17032816
Yeah if I'm making an investment and the broker says I've got a 50/50 chance of it blowing up in my face I'm not going to make that investment. Nobody sane would make that investment even if there's a 50% chance that everything is peachy. At least you've admitted your naive, and no I'm not miserable. I just know a bad deal when I see it.
You have a skewed view on marriage because literally nothing bad happens to you if it goes sour. But you arrogantly believe that men should share your view because you have absolutely no frame of reference to just how fucked a man can be if a marriage goes south.
>>17032459
>It's unlikely she'll leave me, because she'll almost certainly never find anyone better
You think women are keeping tally of all of your worthwhile qualities when all she really wants is someone who can provide for her and validate her fucking feelings.
She can get that anywhere if you don't want to make the commitment that would make her feel more secure. Don't be so fucking arrogant.
>>17032828
>The only thing that might be a downside is that she won't be able to take on your name this way
She could absolutely take his name. You can legally change your name whenever you want. (Although I'm not sure if OP or his gf want that, I'm just putting it out there. No legal marriage required for that)
>>17032828
Obviously don't tell her "you can get your ring and ceremony". Tell her your concerns about legal matter. Then tell her that you, however would love to wear her ring and have her wear yours. I'm sure she'll be down for that. If not, you DO have proofe that it would havr been a bad idea to marry her
honestly, it's not a big deal if OP doesn't want to get married but i think the big thing is that he screwed himself over by not mentioning it earlier. if your girlfriend wants to get married so badly but you don't, do a symbolic ceremony maybe? she might just want the fancy party and to show off that she's happy with her life. ask her if marriage is really that important to her or if she wants to show off a little. but more importantly, tell her you have no intention of getting married. even by saying nothing, she could still think it's on the table.
>>17032833
True. So no downsides then.
Why don't more people do this? It might "revolutionise" marriage. It makes perfect sense. The gov and the church don't need to have their fingers in the love between two people. Seriously considering to ask the bf to do this...
>>17032841
It's what I'm going to do. And I think more and more people are too. I think we will definitely see a change in marriage over the next decade or so.
>>17032831
>nothing bad happens to you
so, losing the love of your life and the dad of your kids is "nothing bad" now? Alright then...
I get what you mean, anon. But in the end, it was him bringing it up. I TOLD him we can have kids and live happily ever after without getting married. My sister and her bf do that. They have two kids and are the cutest family ever. But he said that's not what he wants. And since i don't have any downsides when getting married, i don't see why i should have said no.
>>17032847
I'm going to ask the bf about this tomorrow. It makes so much sense. And you can even safe a lot of money on the wedding. No fucking priest and no civil wedding. Neat
I am the opposite sex, a couple years younger than you, and reading this post gives me confidence to know that I always strive to communicate what I want and find out what my significant other wants to get a better understanding of each other. Moving forward responding to your post. I believe you know your options to this problem. A.You could either continue the relationship with the reoccurring cycle of marriage being brought up
B.Meet halfway if your both willing to compromise
C.The relationship slowly falling apart by the difference in desires you both have and living the single life.
Either way, I wish you both the best. Everybody deserves to be happy. You can find someone who doesn't believe in marriage, and she can find someone who does. It is possible.
>>17032859
Be sure to REALLY look into all of the details of both legal marriage and nonlegal, though. There might still be things you want to consider, like some employers offer insurance to legal spouses. I think some states allow you paid grieving leave from work if your legal spouse dies. Things like that.
>>17032873
I know those things already. Nothing that's very important that you can't also organize otherwise (custody of kids and the like)
>>17032816
Walt Disney I'm told, had nightmares as a child.
He vowed to re-write fairy-tales, and give them all happy endings, instead of the reality based moral which had been intended by the original author.
It wasn't enough for Beauty to find love in Beast, and live happily ever after. No, good old Walt insisted that Beast get circumcised, and wear ladies underwear.
Most of the Disney Princesses, gave their virginity to a man the just met, and the story cut off before the divorce.
After Walt died, Beauty and the Beast was retold, a little closer to the original story. It was call Shrek. It would be Disney, if someone didn't undergo a sex change or transformation of some kind, so Fiona turned into an Ogre. Sending a message to young girls that they will get fat and ugly if they don't marry a bastard son of a king.
After 80 years of Disney shit, it's no wonder girls are so confused today. Glass slippers are dangerous, you morons.
Stop fantasizing about marriage, especially to inbred looking prince charmings. Find an intelligent mate to be comfortable with, someone with some common sense, who doesn't want to see you cut your feet wearing less then sensible footwear.
>>17032831
Difference is making an investment, you can't do anything to affect the chances.
If you took one couple: got married within 4 months of knowing each other, were 21, different religious beliefs, never talked about children, etc.
And another: Friends for a year, dated two years, moved in together, good at communication, got married at 28, etc.
Those aren't 50/50 odds. You can do things to change them, it's not a literal coin flip once you get married on whether you'll stay together.
>>17032882
That was a pile of crap from start to beginning and you are very aware of that
>>17032886
Thanks. This is what i was trying to say. You aren't a helpless spectator to how your marriage turns out
>>17032893
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/39bn8i/til_walt_disney_was_so_disgusted_from_his_viewing/
>>17032886
OP here, she wasn't a virgin when we met so the odds are already cut quite sharply. Maybe if she had no previous partners I would have seriously considered it, but it's just not worth the risk now
I used to think the
>most posters on /adv/ are female
Thing was a meme. But holy shit. Nothing enrages women more than a wealthy man refusing to get sucked into the marriage
>>17032917
Le virgin maymay XD
Holy shit. You are in a deeper hole than previously assumed.
>>17032917
does she have a history of cheating or are you just assuming she'll cheat because she has had previous partners (or a singular partner)?
>"I don't wanna get married, too much commitment, muh money"
>has a kid with woman he doesn't want to commit to
Honestly this attitude boggles my brain. YOU MADE A CHILD TOGETHER. You are tied to this woman, forever. If you were only married but didn't have any kids, you could divorce her and never have to see her again after the court finalizes things (it's not like alimony is getting passed out much these days).
But no, somehow Mr. Commitment-phobe here forgot to double up on the birth control and now this woman will be a part of his life forever.
>Option 1: you break up, related to the marriage discussion or otherwise
Have fun learning how to co-parent (also dealing with your child's new stepdad etc.). That's until the kid hits 18 or so, minimum. Then after that, it will be going to your kid's graduation, hanging out with her mom; going to her wedding, hanging out with her mom some more (might even have to do a dual walk down the aisle with the stepdad to give her away!), birth of your kid's children, hope it's not too awkward hanging out in the waiting room with her mom and her stepdad, OP.
>Option 1B: you break up
And then never see the kid again because once you aren't fucking her mom any more, that's the end of your "commitment." It's a popular option all over.
>Option 2: For some reason, the mom sticks around without marriage
So, you don't get death benefits for widows/widowers in the UK? There's no power of attorney for medical decisions given to spouses when one partner is incapacitated? At least in the US the tax benefit is the least important part of marriage benefits. If I were to get hit by a bus and put in a coma, I would want my wife to be making the medical decisions, not my crazy alcoholic mom (who would be my next of kin if I wasn't married). I would want my wife to get my social security benefits if I pass away before her. If we weren't married, she would get nothing besides my small life insurance policy.
>>17032920
>nothing enrages women more than a wealthy man refusing to get sucked into the marriage
i'm not enraged, i can understand why he doesn't want to. marriage isn't for everyone. i do think he dug his own hole here by not stating it beforehand because otherwise she wouldn't be hounding him.
>>17032922
Wut. Not OP, but you're the one talking about statistical probability, and it's pretty well-established now that divorce is correlated with number of previous sexual partners. Even HuffPo will print it.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/relationship-between-early-sex-and-divorce_n_882681.html
>sexual experiences in early adolescence have been associated with premarital conception, premarital birth, and having more sex partners over the course of a lifetime. And all those are divorce determinants.
>>17032882
>Fiona turned into an Ogre. Sending a message to young girls that they will get fat and ugly if they don't marry a bastard son of a king.
Wow, that explains a lot. Not about the movie, but your perspective of it. Alternatively, she was always an ogre, she just hid it and thought she was ugly. She didn't accept herself, and was going to marry the bastard son of a king and be miserable. All over a misunderstanding that when she said "who could love an ogre?" she meant herself, not Shrek.
At the end, they get together because they're a better couple. They're compatible, he finds her attractive regardless, and she's happy. If anything the movie says the opposite of your post. Don't be with Chad, he'll make you miserable. Marry the nice guy that you actually like. You're trying too hard to make it something else.
>source: Watching the movie a million times due to younger siblings and taking Spanish where we had to watch it even more, and obviously in Spanish.
>>17032917
Then why have a child together? How do you even know it's yours?
why would a man want to marry a woman after hearing from every man in his life and every man in every aspect of media that it's equivalent to getting your nuts cut off.
You assume there would be a step dad but you've been spending too much time on 4chan, cuckolds are quite rare in the real world.
>>17032948
>talking about statistical probability
100% of people who eat carrots will die.
Shocking what we can learn from statistics.
>>17032968
>why would a man want to marry a woman
cuz she promise him blowjobs, and buttsex
why else would any man even consider marriage for more than a second or two.
itt: bitter women who are obsessed with marriage
it's cool if you don't want to get married
just talk to her about it n if she wants to be a little bitch about it that's her problem
communication is the most important thing in a relationship
>>17032979
Are you the anon who was just saying that things like dating time and whether or not you have children before marriage affects the probability if divorce, so you can't say all divorce chances are 50/50 across the board?
cum in the pussy , be proud of kids / end game content release . always remember our men died so you can do this you little pussy bitch.
Sounds like OP has a good head on his shoulders. Let's not turn this into a vaginal excretion contest.
It's over bro. If you don't marry her she will leave you. Women are fucking crazy about it.
Decide if she is worth the huge waste of money and financial risk, then do what feels right.
>>17032959
i was waiting for you to show up
>>17032999
wasn't me. divorce isn't 50/50 divorce is more like 81% and that doesn't even account for the people who stay together on paper but are really divorced. I'm putting it at about 1 in 10 odds of staying married.
I know both, married couples and unmarried couples. I won't say one group is happier than the other, they are mostly happy both ways.
One group is together because they want to be, and they aren't holding a nuke to do it.
It's really sad that women put marriage on a pedestal. "I'm nothing without a man" "without a ring, i'm worthless" show some self respect will you. a little dignity.
Like the virgin guy who worships pussy so much that he marries the first woman who rapes him. I think you woman who can't respect yourself without a ring are just as bad.
You place such high importance on getting married, that once you do, your life is "complete" or over in other words.
Literally you have nothing to live for, you stop caring, let yourselves go, get fat, take anti-depressants, drink, and start cheating with a BBC to get that next high. marriage junkies, crash hard.
having that power of divorce in your hand, makes you a cunt, even if you're an otherwise decent person.
"honey you work 3 jobs to buy me shoes, and i deserve them, but you don't pay me enough attention, so i'm leaving you, for the man i've been seeing for the last 2 years behind your back." "Take your clothes, and leave the key"
wouldn't you be more comfortable in a relationship that wasn't leveraged?
>>17033004
nah bro, most of them died for absolutely nothing.
>>17033068
>divorce is more like 81%
This is just wrong. And divorce isn't the commonly reported myth of 50% either. That's from taking the crude amount of divorces and crude amount of marriages within the same year. So not representative of actual divorce rates at all. The actual divorce rate is lower and has been decreasing since it's peak in the 1970s and 80s.
Draw up a marriage contract.
A legally binding contract between two individuals.
Oh wait legally binding contracts can't be for eternity, it has to have a specified term, silly me.
A marriage lease agreement, if you will.
Bestowing unto one another the powers of spouse for 3 years, at which time the parties, may choose to renew the lease for additional 3 year periods. No need for ugly divorce, the lease automatically expires at the end of the 3 year term (provide 90 day prior notice)
If you don't wish to be married anymore, just give notice in advance, and at the end of the 3 year term you are no longer married.
Billions of dollars saved on divorce attorneys by 90% of the population.
Super simple contract, spells out the terms of the agreement.
( ) will ( ) will not be blowjobs
( ) will ( ) will not be shoes
breach of any individual terms may be disputed in court, without voiding the entire contract.
>>17033152
in a traditional marriage, if he doesn't buy her shoes, and pay her crazy credit card charges for psychic friends network. She goes to an attorney, or her therapist refers her to one.
They attorney quickly tells her "I get half" errmm "I mean, you get half" "half of everything, all the shoes you could ever want, and he has to pay"
"oh thank you so much, i just love shoes. blowjobs for shoes made me feel like a whore, I'd much rather get them for free"
>>17032920
>Nothing enrages women more than a wealthy
man refusing to get sucked into the marriage
It's a single poster, as far as I can tell. I'm a woman and, although I'm married (insurance to cover some health issues when we were young and poor), I'd have been just as happy without the certificate involved. We didn't even have a wedding. I wore a $20 dress, bought my own ring, and we went to the courthouse. I can completely understand why someone like OP would want to watch out for his wealth and I don't blame him at all for it. Abandoning thoughts of marriage doesn't mean they can't have a healthy, happy long-term relationship or that he'll be a bad father.
>>17031949
>There are logical benefits to doing so
You get a small tax break if you're both working, the ability to see each other in the hospital all for the low price of signing up to lose half of your shit and much more importantly losing access to your children at the waive of a judges hand.
Modern marriage is a scam. No one gives a shit about children anymore and so they fuck over the kids by divorcing over things any other generation would've worked through.
>>17032618
Bullshit post detected.
>States that do recognize common law marriage include the following: Alabama, Colorado, District of Columbia, Georgia (if created prior to 1997), Idaho (if created before 1996), Iowa, Kansas, Montana, New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only), Ohio (if created prior to 10/1991), Oklahoma, Pennsylvania (if created before 9/2003), Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas and Utah.
Common law marriage as an institution is largely dead.
>>17033152
This.
>>17033275
Actually you don't have to get married for hospital visitation rights. You can give anyone the right, even a best friend or something, and it's only a few pages of paperwork.
http://www.unmarried.org/health-care/hospital-rights/
>>17032829
If she doesn't then you don't get married, simple as that. You compromised, so does she
Some men actually benefit from marriage. This one asshole I know married a few times, and was divorced. Had a kid he didn't want and the judge ordered him to pay child support to his ex wife.
Clever son of a bitch that he is filed for bankruptcy to reduce the child support that he wasn't paying anyway. He only worked under the table jobs to avoid getting his check garnished. Eventually it caught up to him and he was threatened to pay or go to jail.
This is where he learned just how powerful the courts are. actually putting a man in jail for not paying child support. So he went to his rabbi for advice. The rabbi told him, don't let them take your money. Go find a married woman with 2 kids, and make her husband pay your ex. So thats what he did. He seduced a married woman with 2 children, sweet talked her into getting divorced. the court takes her husband's money, and gives it to his ex wife for her child.
amazing what true love can accomplish these days. Now that his child support obligation is being paid, he can get a real job. Her ex has to pay for upto 18 years. It all works as long as he never marries her. If she remarries, her ex could ask for a reduction in support due to her expenses changing. but why get married anyway. a divorced single mother qualifies for all sorts of benefits, that he helps her apply for Housing is paid, she gets welfare and food stamps. The guy lives like a king.
All he has to do is remind her every day how worthless she is, being a divorced with two kids, saggy tits, and a fat ass, she's his for life.
>>17032072
There are no risks. She can get your assets at anytime thanks to your shared kid.
>>17031944
Not gonna read 156 posts, but if she was a virgin when you met and you're her only sexual partner now, the risks are low enough that you might wanna consider it
As a general rule I'm strongly against marriage, but if she has given you her virginity, giving her a ring is a reasonable request.
Having said that, nice to see yet another man seeing the scam of marriage for what it is
The court recognizes that a woman is worthless after losing her virginity. The law is structured so the man who took her virginity must pay her for the rest of her life, because no other man could possibly want used goods.
In other words, some men today don't get their money's worth, marrying a non virgin. Once upon a time, if you bought a non virgin, you could get your money back, but now it's sold as-is with no guarantee. Maybe lawmakers are wearing rose-colored glasses, pretending their teenage daughters aren't out fucking every night. They think their precious little virgin is really sleeping over at her BFFs instead of sleeping with a BBC. Girls don't get married when they turn 12 like they did when those laws were written.
Write your elected officials, send them pics of their daughters. Help them understand they are destroying the institution of marriage, the foundation of family. At least allow exemptions for men who don't marry virgins.
Should've found out if she wanted to get married before you had a kid with her.
>>17033863
t. anon who made a pretty good argument, but will never be taken seriously by government or wider society.
>>17031944
Become one the two?
>>17033880
>Become one the two?
In English m8
>>17033863
The idea of this post is one of the few things where the Bible and the Quran agree, the bedrock of culture and civilization.
>>17033886
Actually the Bible and Qur'an agree on a good 85%+
Just a shame Christianity is a cuck religion now
>>17031949
>There are logical benefits to doing so
Top kekerino
OP just say no, what is she gonna do? It's not like you can force someone to marry you (yet)
DO NOT GET MARRIED, OP.
DO NOT GET MARRIED.
ALL THESE PEOPLE TELLING YOU TO GET MARRIED ARE WOMEN WHO SEE THAT MARRIAGE IS BREAKING DOWN AS AN INSITITUTION AND MEN ARE BECOMING MORE AND MORE SKEPTIC OF IT. THEY WANT YOU TO MARRY HER BECAUSE THEY ARE WOMEN AND SYMPATHISE WITH WOMEN.
YOU WILL BE A GOOD FATHER. YOU CAN BE ONE IF YOU WANT TO. BEING MARRIED OR NOT DOESNT CHANGE THAT.
BEING MARRIED ONLY MEANS RISKING YOUR ASSETS AND PROVIDING MONEY TO A WOMAN WHO WILL FALL OUT OF LOVE WITH YOU VERY SOON AND WILL BE FANTASISING ABOUT PHYSICALLY MORE ATTRACTIVE, YOUNGER MEN, WHILE ALL THE WOMAN BRINGS TO THE RELATIONSHIP IS HER DEPRECIATING LOOKS AND BODY.
I HAVE BEEN THERE, TRUST ME.
THERE *WILL* BE A POINT WHEN YOUR MARRIAGE WILL BREAK APART, AND YOUR WIFE WIL LEAVE YOU FOR SOMEBODY ELSE, LEAVING YOU STRANDED IN EMOTIONAL AND FINANCIAL TURMOIL.
IF YOU DO DECIDE TO GET MARRIED, I WANT YOU TO KEEP THIS POST IN MIND AND REMEMBER ME ON YOUR DAY OF RECKONING.
>>17031944
Statistics say that there is more than a 50% chance of you getting cucked hard by your woman, have your children drift away from you, and you sinking into suicidal depression as a lonely, poor man living out his days in a one bedroom flat trying to drink himself to oblivion.
I would advise you against it, OP.
>>17032603
/thread
>>17032606
Kek
>"Men think marriage is a raw deal, they have no power and it's a huge liability "
>butthurt Cuck: "muh responsibility, this raw deal makes me feel like a man"
>woman: "muh weddings, muh feels"
fuck off roastie scum
>>17033886
Which Quran are you referring to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vae0D4n3O8
all of you need to stop your slut shaming
it's her body, her choice
if she wants a big black cock in her body
she has that right
if you don't want to marry her because of it
then don't
her being a slut, does not give you the right
to cut her head off
the world needs more prostitutes
more = lower prices
female prostitutes make a lot more money than male prostitutes
equal work equal pay
>>17033912
Pre-nup.
But regardless of my advice, this >>17033912 anon is speaking the truth. Fuck women are snakes.
>>17033912
>ALL THE WOMAN BRINGS TO THE RELATIONSHIP IS HER DEPRECIATING LOOKS
you westerners put too much value on looks.
who care what her face looks like
put a bag over her head
looks aren't important. what matters
1)Drug and Disease free. Never drank alcohol, or used drugs, or anything else that damages her eggs.
2)Birthing Hips. Not critical, as long as a baby can survive childbirth, she can be replaced.
3)Milk producing Breasts. You don't want a mother feeding your baby that artificial baby milk, trust me on this, that's only for poor families who want their children to do unskilled, labor jobs.
4)Healthy. No diseased Gingers, no mental genes in your baby. No stds, no cancer, in her family. No depression. No obesity. No eating disorder. No butt implants, or boobs.
You don't want these thing in your child.
I'd take a 4 any day over a 10 with rotten eggs, and silicone milk.
>>17032784
Its easy for you to hold that opinion, who have nothing to lose and everything to gain from a marriage. Would you feel the same way if child custody went 99% to the man and you sudden had to Pay HALF your salary to a person who can just lay around at home for the rest of his life if you divorce?
>>17034007
Women have no purpose except breeding.
Women were never meant to be empowered.
Even our pre historic cavemen ancestors placed most power in men's hands, and those generations flourished.
Women were always meant for sticking dicks in and making babies. They have nothing else to contribute to the society. They were always meant to be docile, submissive and caring for their offspring and meant to participate in monogamous relationships only.
Contemporary leaders placed too much power in women's hands and now society is degrading into rampant degeneracy.
>>17034026
This
just man up
