Ask a Christian man anything.
Also, offering advice to Christians.
>>16874200
What denomination would you consider yourself a part of? (I feel like that sheds more light on your specific beliefs and philosophies.)
>>16874200
I believe in God and our Lord Jesus Christ but wouldn't call myself a christian and I was thinking about this:
I think we come from evolution and evolution makes perfect sense to me in a religious way because that would mean that God is so wise that he gave us the ability to adapt to whatever condition the planet is in.
So my question is, why do christians in general refute evolution when it makes perfect sense? And the other would be, why do christians in general think of God as "magical being" as opposed to the greatest scientist ever?
>>16874344
Well, it looks like OP got raptured or some shit. So I would like to take a crack at answering your question. (For the record, I am a UU. Not a Christian, so if your ideology differs, that's A-okay!) And I realize there's a great chance that your post is bait, but even if the question is posed, an answer might help someone.
>Why don't Christians subscribe to evolution theory?
It's really simple. Personal religious belief stems more from a sense of identity than it does from ones actual beliefs. When someone goes to church or states that they follow the beliefs of a certain group, they cement themselves within the practices of that group. They say, "this is who I am."
It should be pretty obvious that if someone is yelling something at you and calling you stupid, that it would leave a bad taste in your mouth. Someone that believes in the bible only has two sources with which to seek guidance when something like evolution is presented to them. Either their religious texts, or their community with which they identify.
It may appear obvious for one person to believe one thing or another, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone has had the same life experience or exercises in logic that you have had.
It may appear very clear to most people that the world is round, for instance. But if a group of people suddenly decides that it is actually flat, they are identifying with a contrarian notion. Despite any amount of logical explanation or evidence you put in front of them, if their dedication to the identity of a "flat-earther" is strong enough, they will go to any end to refute it.
Does this make any sense?
>>16874344
There is no proof of evolution on any macro scale and the fact that there are no records of species in between only make evolution less likely. Micro evolution is fine. But believing in macro evolution is retarded religious or not. There is no evidence supporting macro evolution.
>>16874200
Why do you not accept the legitimacy as of the Orthodox Church?
>>16874401
First of all, how is my post bait? But anyway, it does make sense but my point was to say that even though I believe in God and I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, sometimes science is irrefutable; so why can't we have both? Why do we have to take one side or the other?
That's what I meant when I said that I believe that God is the greatest scientist.
>>16874414
except for the fossil record that is
>>16874414
Kindly fuck off http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
>>16874421
So, your post was to make a statement about your beliefs and argue about them, rather than to truly ask a question or seek guidance on the question of "why Christians don't believe in evolution". That's what I meant when I said your post was bait.
And to be clear, I agree with you that man's bipartisan nature is bullshit. It always bothers me to see our natural instinct is to pick a side and hold on, whether that be religion, sports, or politics.
>>16874414
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroevolution#Misuse
Try again.
Your conclusion can only be reached by refining terms - or often just keeping them vauge- so that there can never be an acceptable answer.
>>16874200
Why Christianity over any other religion
>>16874441
This is actually my big question, and the reason why I renounced my Christian beliefs. So I would be interested to see an answer that isn't "Because god said so".
I have never once had a Christian calmly provide an answer to this, and I am very interested to hear a well thought out response.
>>16874432
Try actually majoring in biology. There are tons of explanations for micro evolution. You never assume anything about a scale you cant observe. Relativity, quantum mechanics, gravity. All of this literally says never assume things work inductively. You have to be retarded to assume it does.
>>16874427
There are no fossil records. If you really want to go there the homo sapiens we have today did not derive from neanderthals.
>>16874429
You can make all the assumptions you want. But assuming it is fact is retarded.
Micro and macro evolution don't exist. Only evolution. You aren't allowed to believe in inches and not miles. You are an inferior being and you deserve punishment. Abandon thread.
>>16874455
>There are no fossil records
excuse me?
>>16874459
Evolution does not have to entail macro evolution. There are plenty of explanations for micro evolution that do just that. Thats just being retarded and drawing things out to scales you have no idea what you are talking about.
>hey guys gravity pulls at 10m/s
>so given enough time you can surpass the speed of light
This is what macro evolution advocates sound like.
>>16874467
Problem?
>>16874475
Your ignorance is a problem
>>16874475
there are an extremely large number of fossils of extinct species to the point that the current level of biodiversity is less than 1% of all species that have ever existed, meanwhile all currently living species have very clearly datable points in time when their fossils first appear.
How can you look at this and say there is no fossil record, I don't understand.
>>16874482
He might be a troll, no one is that stupid.
>>16874455
>. All of this literally says never assume things work inductively.
All knowledge is inductive at its base stage, as Hume pointed out centuries ago. These apply just as well to religious truths as they do scientific ones.
>>16874482
Fossils of extinct species do not advocate for evolution. Evolution is just an assumption about them and you are trying to pass that off as fact. The earth used to be more accommodating as well.
>meanwhile all currently living species have very clearly datable points in time when their fossils first appear.
So finding evidence of macroevolution should be easy right.
>>16874488
If you are going to use induction, you have to prove its a well ordered set first. Math 101.
We try to use it despite that and we are proven wrong time and time again.
>>16874502
lmao a well ordered set has nothing to do with the problem of induction
kys
>>16874504
Yes, it has everything to do with it.
t. math major
> If a set is well ordered (or even if it merely admits a well-founded relation), the proof technique of transfinite induction can be used to prove that a given statement is true for all elements of the set.
I shouldnt have to be explaining basic facts to people. Induction is flawless, we just apply it to cases we shouldnt.
>>16874512
that is a totally different type of induction m8
>Although its name may suggest otherwise, mathematical induction should not be misconstrued as a form of inductive reasoning (also see Problem of induction). Mathematical induction is an inference rule used in proofs. In mathematics, proofs including those using mathematical induction are examples of deductive reasoning, and inductive reasoning is excluded from proofs
>>16874502
>Math 101
Math is literally based on induction
>>16874518
Thats the induction Im talking about. Inductive reasoning is just wrong. Theres not much to talk about there. An intro epistemology class will teach you that. It has no place in science and is why we made the mistake of assuming classic mechanics worked on large scale. Thankfully we learned not to be retarded and apply it to gravity. But it seems there are still retards applying it in the field of biology.
>>16874200
I'm in love with a girl who is a seventh day adventist, I was raised catholic and am not really practicing right now. What do? Don't know too much about them but I'm willing to convert
>>16874526
>I dont know what Im talking about
Your experience with integers is not all math is.
>>16874344
>So my question is, why do christians in general refute evolution when it makes perfect sense?
A majority do not. Catholics and the Orthodox are organized in their acceptance of evolution, and most protestant groups accept it as well.
>>16874531
All the axioms that math is founded upon are based on induction
>>16874502
Okay. No. If I wasn't drunk I wouldn't be spending my time trying to educate you but here we are.
The most basic genetic analysis relies upon evolution as a fundamental assumption. I don't imagine you know how DNA, basic biochemistry, or replication error rates work so I won't blather on about it all... but I promise you, it's only your lack of education that makes you think evolution is anything but proven fact.
How do you think they can estimate when the last bottleneck in human population size was? Do a little reading about how that works.
When you see that not only does evolution explain what we see around us, but in fact a theory that was developed long before we even suspected that DNA might exist is further strengthened with every single genome we read I hope you will be able to come to terms with the fact your ignorance is the only thing that kept you from accepting that reality does include evolution.
Or not. Whichever.
Seriously. Bioinformatics. Check that shit out. You sound like one of those guys telling me how the earth is flat and I just need to accept the evidence while I reply on satellite internet.
>>16874537
lol no. Induction does not apply to everything. Math isnt just integers. Pls educate yourself.
>>16874540
Demonstrate an example of mathematics which has no induction.
>>16874539
No you just sound like a retard advocating that the universe operates on classic mechanics. Yeah classic mechanics will give you a fairly accurate scale of the things we observe, but the moment you try to expand that to larger scales thats just you being retarded. There are many theories that are alternatives to evolution in the sense that you are using it. No one is going to deny that there are small changes in things. Hell thats why there are different races. But to expand on that scale is just retarded.
You seem to have a point about mutation. Where were you going with it.
>>16874546
>many theories that are alternatives to evolution
which?
>>16874545
Literally anything that doesnt deal with well ordered sets. ANYTHING.
Start with set theory. The practice is to model everything with it. And its a really annoying chore to create and inductive set for your type of math. But not every set is an inductive one.
>>16874530
Anyone?
>>16874548
Does it matter which. Just because we dont have any good alternative to how gravity works, we arent stupid enough to assume that our best theory of gravity that works in 99.99% of the cases works on small unobservable scales. Why are you being retarded when it comes to biology. Its okay to say you dont know.
>>16874549
>Literally anything that doesnt deal with well ordered sets
Can you expand on this/ given an example of it in use this seems like a very interesting principle.
>>16874552
Why would you have to convert to a different belief system just to fuck a girl?
>>16874552
Just so you know the People who were killed at Waco were a branch of the 7th Day Adventists.
They are very insular and have some funny practices even for protestants
>>16874556
lmao this guy really suggesting we shouldnt use gravity cause we dont have a GUT and it doesnt work on arbitrarily small distances
>>16874557
Do you know anything about set theory. Because Im not about to teach it. Just no that inductive sets (integers) are only a proper subset of all sets.
>>16874563
Only about the figures associated with it like Frege, Russel and Wittgenstein
>>16874562
>I cant read
Im literally saying we shouldnt apply gravity to micro scales just like you are trying to apply evolution to macro scales you have to way of observing. Dont make assumptions you have no idea what you are talking about with. Its shitty science. Thankfully physicist arent this retarded.
>>16874546
Nope. You're stupid. Homology isn't complicated or abstract. Check out stochastic models for determining what genes and thus macroscopic biological structures are related - eg. homologous.
Check out how you can see differing mutation rates in genes relative to the background mutation rate in non-coding regions. This isn't even hard. The trouble is you're talking about evolutionary biology like a fucking carpenter talking about aeronautics. You just don't have the education to even discuss why you're confused.
compare the ways homologous proteins do similar jobs in organisms despite changes in their sequence.
I won't get any deeper into this because like I said, I might as well be discussing car mechanics with an art history major. The fact you don't understand it doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant and I'm too drunk to play with you right now.
>>16874200
Are you Christian because you were indoctrinated since birth or a child?
Personally I dislike religion (for myself) but I'm fine with people practicing any religion without imposing their personal beliefs and values onto others. Or using religion in attempt to control or restrict others' lives or pursuit of happiness.
I don't know I just believe in the seperation of church and state.
>>16874556
I'm pretty sure you just dodged a question there.
If you don't support "macro evolution" what is it that you DO support? How do you explain all the diversity in species on earth, both living and extinct? (Not rhetorical, mind you. I'm curious as to what you do believe.)
>>16874568
If you see a video of a guy robbing a store and shooting a clerk, do you let the guy walk free because the camera only take 10 frames a second? I mean sure, one frame you see the guy holding a gun, and the next frame you see blood bursting out of the poor bastards chest, but you have no idea that he actually fired the bullet!
>>16874569
Bro I was in grad school for biochemical engineering before I switched to what Im doing now and I have several other degrees that I guarantee you makes me more knowledgeable than you overall. You could know more about this specific topic, but I know enough to call you out on your bullshit. You dont know what you are talking about. What pisses me off most is how biologist try to sell their assumptions as fact. Use it for what it works for. Dont expand to ridiculous scales.
>>16874569
I am not him, but could you expand on
>homologous proteins do similar jobs in organisms despite changes in their sequence
preferably in simpler language?
>>16874581
Nope.
You can design all the sythetic pathways for biological molecules you want and you can't "call me out on my bullshit" when you don't seem to have even studied basic population genetics. Define homology for me. Then go do some basic reading on how homologous proteins are determined to in fact be homologous.
It's all just math. The interesting thing is the math seems to support evolutionary theory in every single case. And if proteins seem to abstract you can look at homology in macroscopic structures as well, though that feels a little less well defined to me.
>>16874441
>>16874448
For me at least my religion is something I feel in my gut as true. There's a reason it's talked about in terms of Faith and Belief. For people who have found religion on their own terms your question is the same as asking why you love your gf. Sure you could talk about her cute hair and friendly personality but in reality it's just something intangible that you know and feel deep down
>>16874587
blargh. Too many tequilas for this... but I'll try.
Homologous means that two things - biological structures, genetic sequences, protein sequences - are descended from a common ancestor. (So you might say the five digits on the human hand are homologous to the digits on the hand of a chimp, or hey, the five bones that extend through a manatee's flipper, whatever).
Proteins as they exist in the human body or the bodies of other critters are strings of amino acids that fold up into fancy three dimensional structures that then carry out various tasks from being a structural part of a membrane to having some enzymatic activity. Basically they are 'nano machines' that do all the shit your body needs done.
Some of the most beautiful examples of this are between extremely distantly related species - like the version of slicer and dicer found in archeal genomes versus what you see in bacterial or mammalian genomes where the sequence has mutated almost beyond recognition but you can see they still maintain the same rough structure and the same catalytic sites.
I'm sorry I can't give you better than this tonight but seriously. Too many tequilas.
In summary - related structures doing related shit. And the genes involved? You can tell they're related by modeling the sequence of DNA that codes for the structure and how likely they both arose as derivatives of a third sequence (that the sequences are homologous)
>>16874575
Science doesnt good answers. Just an analysis of data presented. There are a ton of assumptions you have to make to say that he fired the bullet. Assumptions are safe on scales you know they work on. But say that video only played at 1 frame per hour.
>>16874573
I didnt dodge the question. You just are missing the point Im advocating. We DONT know how gravity works on microscales. Sure we have a model for macro scales, but we arent retarded enough to say it works for microscales we cant confirm it. The higgs has been theorized for the longest time with a lot of evidence for it. It wasnt considered fact until it was found. Why are physicist the only ones not being retarded.
>>16874608
>Anyone who doesnt take my assumptions as fact doesnt know what Im talking about
Stick to observable scales and no one has a problem. Im not about to argue credentials with you because you really seem to think you bs is fact.
>The interesting thing is the math seems to support evolutionary theory in every single case
Induction supports whatever you want when you do it wrong.
>>16874638
Okay... Well I'm asking you now.
Which theory do you rely on to explain the diversity of species on earth?
>>16874612
If you use gut feeling as a measure of truth Scientology and Islam are just as legitimate as your own. However thats a pretty big issue given that their doctrines are mutually exclusive.
>For people who have found religion on their own terms your question is the same as asking why you love your gf. Sure you could talk about her cute hair and friendly personality but in reality it's just something intangible that you know and feel deep down
Just because you personally dont know how to express something does not mean it cannot be expressed.
>>16874645
>What theory do you rely on to explain gravity on microscopic scales
You are missing the point
>>16874642
No.. not induction. I meant stochastic processes.. Using calculus or markov models typically... naive Bayes models work well as classifiers.... What is it you're doing now that you flunked out of your engineering masters anyway?
I'm sorry you can't see proteins so you don't believe in them. Or DNA I guess? What are you even talking about now?
Maybe just explain the similarity in the number of 'finger' bones in the flippers of a manatee and a human hand.
Or various others.
>>16874647
Am I missing the point, or have I read and considered your previous posts, and not been swayed? Remember, it is burden of the claimant to provide proof. I am a reasonable and intelligent person, and while I can tell you've devoted time to the study of this subject, I can also tell you've made a lot of assumptions based on the nature of your post.
Why won't you answer the question?
Will it derail the statements you've previously made?
>>16874669
You are literally missing the point. The answer to the question is wholeheartedly unrelated to the point Im am trying to make. In fact actually answering the question goes against what I am saying. You dont rely on any theory for microscopic gravity. You accept you dont know. To do otherwise is ridiculous.
>>16874646
Oh sure! But I think anyone who claims to know with 100% certainty that their belief system is the right one is super conceited and arrogant. Maybe mine is wrong, maybe theirs is right, maybe everyone is wrong, maybe nobody's found the truth yet. My religion speaks to me which is why I believe in it. All eight billion people on this earth are just as confident they know The Truth as I am. KNOWING I'm factually and scientifically correct would require some crazy ass proof that obviously nobody anywhere has. In the meantime I'll keep doing what I think is right because why wouldn't I?
Also it doesn't mean it can't be expressed but that doesn't necessarily mean it can be either
My question is,
If every religious person is just making their own interpretation of the written scriptures and applying it to their own lives (or passing it down to others to interpret) as they see fit, then can religion ever actually exist as the unified belief system it's is passed off as?
Or did God intentionally pass down an arbitrary imperfect system of values and words for mankind to do as they will with? If so.. what would the point of that be? Why would a system be presented as a unified one when it is designed to segregate?
Surely.. if God was all mighty and all knowing and all powerful, then the message/guidelines passed down could have been written in a way that was absolute, succinct, concise and fool proof so that everyone could understand it clearly. Right?
I mean.. Even the DMV can write a set of road rules that is easy to understand, and that was made up by humans.
>>16874687
Oh. Well why didn't you just say that in the first place? Instead of speaking in completely logical concise phrases, you went to crazy lengths to argue with that other Anon.
Yeah, I could see how someone could come to that conclusion. But doesn't that also imply that we must consider all possibilities with some degree of truth.
Saying that "macro evolution" isn't a valid theory changes the "we don't know" to "We know that it's not macro evolution". Am I right there?
By saying X isn't A, we determine some attribute that we DO know of X, therefore defining it. Right?
>>16874692
What annoys me most is how uninformed Christians are about other religions. At the core, christianity/islam/judaism are all the same. Theres just some disagreements with christianity being the furthest off. If you remove the triumvirate christians than the religions are all incredibly close.
Now as for the none monotheistic religions, polytheism is fairly ridiculous and no one in our current day actually believes in it. Take japan for instance, they dont really believe in polytheism. Its more like a belief in spirits. Buddhism doesnt have a god and its message can be applied to any other religion. Just that buddhism seems fundamentally extreme and crazy.
>>16874469
The real problem with this is that micro evolution leads to macro evolution over millions of years. T-rex is related the chicken according to bone structure it just took many many generations and natural selection. No longer could it be a predator that was far too large and now it is the prey of us humans.
>>16874200
Am I going to go to hell for wanting the d?
>>16874707
Macro evolution is a theory just like string theory is one. Both are perfectly valid but to some extent the joke that its just a guess is true. Most physicist dont believe in string theory. Its the best theory we have to unify everything, but people dont go around selling it as fact because its on a scale unobservable and we can only draw inferences and make predictions from it. But do to the nature of science vs religion arguments, people begin to argue the evolution is FACT. That not believing it is crazy. This is what triggers me. Its similar to the big bang argument there as well. People tout it as the start of the universe ignoring the whole observable universe part.
>>16874710
>micro evolution leads to macro evolution
How long before we break light speed. Because if we accelerate for long enough we should double it.
>>16874612
This seems reasonable to me, to a certain degree. Some internal force within the individual is drawn to a specific belief that they are exposed to and you feel compelled to follow it.
This wouldn't be a problem of certain religions were not so easily weaponized and used to manipulate people. If all men kept their spiritual beliefs to themselves unless asked, it would be one thing. But a key part of western religion is to reach out and attract more followers. And that certainly seems like a worldly cause.
>>16874725
Hmmm. I see what you mean.
I think at the core of what you're saying is something I've struggled to put in to words for years. It's something like, "We are imperfect people, trying to discuss and define perfect metaphysical concepts that are beyond our scope of understanding." Like, we can talk about these things, but it's the blank spots where we get hung up. We're defensive of our ignorance.
>>16874725
Comparing evolution to string theory is absolutely laughable. Evolution is simple and intuitive enough that it can be explained to eight-year-old children. It's also universally accepted amongst scientists. String theory is unintuitive, requires a huge amount of background knowledge to even begin to understand, is still hotly controversial, and is still very much developing, whereas have a century's worth of hard evidence for the veracity of the theory of evolution and none of the charges leveled at it have yet to be answered.
>People tout it as the start of the universe ignoring the whole observable universe part.
This is literally meaningless.
>>16874729
>How long before we break light speed. Because if we accelerate for long enough we should double it.
Assuming you're being sarcastic, I have absolutely no idea how this analogy works in your head.
>>16874692
>Oh sure! But I think anyone who claims to know with 100% certainty that their belief system is the right one is super conceited and arrogant.
When you settle for one after barely any effort or research you are equally as conceited and arrogant as those types even if you are only 97%. You say they may be wrong or right but you certainly do not live that way.
> KNOWING I'm factually and scientifically correct would require some crazy ass proof that obviously nobody anywhere has.
Or it would require you to actually start looking and questioning.
>In the meantime I'll keep doing what I think is right because why wouldn't I?
Because you aren't arrogant and conceited enough to arbitrarily declare that because a perfect answer isn't immediately available you are justifyed in saying that your lifestlye has legitimacy.
>>16874709
>Now as for the none monotheistic religions, polytheism is fairly ridiculous and no one in our current day actually believes in it.
>Saying this right after you mention the trinity.
>handwaving up to 13% of worlds population who have a variety of Hindu belief.
>>16874740
I dont understand why its so hard to say we dont know. Youd think after quantum mechanics trolled everyone the world would be more humble but it just feels like only physicist learned the lesson here.
>>16874732
Yeah, that's definitely the kicker. I can read the Bible and passages of love and respect and self-sacrifice for others speak to me, but someone else can just as easily read it and come away with a "nuke all foreigners and unbelievers to hell because that's where they belong" attitude. The idea of an eternal hell can absolutely give anyone a terrible case of savior complex. Unfortunately I don't have any great answer to that. I guess that's just the danger of free will, people can interpret anything as they see fit
>>16874732
>
This seems reasonable to me, to a certain degree. Some internal force within the individual is drawn to a specific belief that they are exposed to and you feel compelled to follow it.
How would you distinigush this from a persons political beliefs or desire to have sex with minors?
>This wouldn't be a problem of certain religions were not so easily weaponized and used to manipulate people. If all men kept their spiritual beliefs to themselves unless asked, it would be one thing. But a key part of western religion is to reach out and attract more followers. And that certainly seems like a worldly cause.
>If all people had spiritual beliefs that alligned with mine there wouldnt be any problems!
>>16874748
Yeah I do live that way actually, thanks. I looked into multiple religions and denominations and while I'm following the one that makes the most sense to me, if something else comes along I won't hesitate to take it. After all, keeping an open mind is how I got to where I am now. I haven't finished my journey until I'm dead in the ground. Why would I stop looking for the next ledge, if there is one? Don't assume things about people, it makes you look, wait for it, arrogant and conceited
>>16874778
>Yeah I do live that way actually, thanks. I looked into multiple religions and denominations and while I'm following the one that makes the most sense to me,
Just what do you define as "looking into" though? and how do you see being passive and waiting for something to "come along" as not staying on your ledge?
I'm not a Christian, but my friend is.
She's upset because her church doesn't allow women in leadership positions, and she doesn't like it because she wants to be in a leadership position.
What would you say to her?
>>16874784
>She's upset because her church doesn't allow women in leadership positions, and she doesn't like it because she wants to be in a leadership position.
If you are a bad friend tell her to go anglican. If you are a good friend tell her that rules like this were created out of Gods love and understanding of us as humans and that even though it might not seem like it we are genuilney better off following that rule.
>>16874784
>She's upset because her church doesn't allow women in leadership positions
If you by into the whole brain differences between men and women and neural pathways, men are better leaders than women.
>>16874720
I want an answer to this
>>16874921
Are you gay?
>>16874939
Bisexual, so Half gay
>>16874200
How can you keep the faith when everything goes wrong? And people make you feel worthless and you realize your whole life has been a complete failure? I pray but to no avail?
>>16874964
You are going to fry. Hope 60ish years is worth an eternity burning.
>>16874977
But why? I didn't choose to have these urges. And love hurts no one
More over Jesus died for mine and everyone's sins. If I'm going to fry for mine, are you not going to fry for yours?
>>16874977
Is there no chance he can be absolved of all sins like Mary the whore was?
>>16874999
Jesus died so that we could forgive each other for our sins. God will still judge us and you are going to fry.
>I didn't choose to have these urges.
You can call it a test. And you failed. And the punishment for failing is frying for eternity.
>And love hurts no one
If you think God only cares about if you are hurting someone then you are in for a sad surprise when you first get put in the fryer.
>>16875036
Repent now and beg for forgiveness and advocate for the rest of his life so that others do not repeat his mistake. Might lower the temperature of the fire.
>>16874966
No one answers just like God or Jesus. Typical.
>>16875043
But Mary didn't do those things... And she was a downright dirty filthy slut of a whore who gets referred to as a virgin now. Isn't that hypocritical?
Plus.. If God will judge then why are you judging?
>>16875051
What do you do when a child is begging for ice cream? Your prayer is heard. But it is the blessing in that you dont receive the ice cream.
>>16875051
Lol. No one answered mine as well.
>>16874704
It's pretty much irrefutable logic that God is imperfect.
>>16875060
Mary is referred to as the repentant prostitute.
I am not judging you. I am just informing you of the fate laid out. Burning in hell for all eternity is the fate before you.
>>16875064
That's a good answer. Thanks I think I'll keep my faith. That made sense to me.
>>16875073
No it just shows you are a child and cant follow directions.
>>16875037
I'm pretty sure am exact quote is that whoever shall believe in Jesus christmas will be forgiven and have eternal life.
Also Judging others is a sin too. Who are you to say who will and won't go to hell.
>>16875080
Just as pretty much all religious people can't read directions.
How many believers in Jesus eat pork and drink excessive alcohol? Do you?
>>16875122
Oh he will burn in hell for eternity. Clearly laid out by God. Im not the one sentencing people, just stating the punishment for breaking the law. Id be guilty if I didnt inform you when given the chance.
And you dont know the quote nor understand the quote you are bastardizing.
>>16875129
You are just making assumptions about people. Im a vegetarian.
>>16875145
Congrats male veggie.
What do you think about atheists?
>>16875145
Do you ever get drunk?
Do any other Christians get drunk?
Do any other Christians eat pork?
If you don't think any of them do, then you are being narrow minded.
>>16875167
All atheist are different. Confused/edgy/misguided are the terms that generally capture them in my mind.
>>16875177
Of course I dont drink. Why would I put toxins in my body.
And as far as other christians go, it comes for a statement made by Jesus. Your interpretation vs his words. Which do you think holds up.
>>16875179
You have never met an atheist, have you?
>>16875185
>Of course
What's that supposed to mean? Other than it seems like you are an edgy, no fun allowed, boring as fuck persona with no joy in life at all?
>>16875195
I have met more than youd ever guess, which is why I say that.
>>16875198
Learn to love your body and you wont be so salty about others taking care of theirs.
>>16875210
Most atheists you will have met, you won't even know they are atheists. You have just met some edgelords, and then mistakenly assume that all atheists are like that. Which is absolutely not true.
>>16875185
Answer the questions please. They are simple to answer yet you choose to respond with vague question that has multiple arbitrary answers.
>do other Christians get drunk?
>do other Christians eat pork?
>>16875231
I know because in the environments Im taking into consideration the religious affiliation matters. Do you think I just talk about religion on 4chan. Its also possible that they could be religious and just playing atheist though.
>>16875237
Its literally right there and more.
>>16875185
>why would I put toxins in my body?
Do you eat fruit and vegetables that were grown with the help of pesticides and chemicals?
>>16874200
Non-believer here with questions.
1. Does believing in god help you feel like your never alone? Kinda like.. you always have a friend who's got your back?
2. Do you pray and go to church? Do you like it? Do you feel closer to your god?
3. Do you believe the bible is true? Not the moral codes that it promotes but in all the people who written it, do you think they were telling the truth?
4. What is your view of heaven? What do you think it's like?
And finally, what is your view on science? In particular biology and physics.
>>16875244
No, a huge chunk of my money goes into food because organic stuff is so expensive. But I make enough to support it comfortably. I only do so when my hand is forced. Like Im in a foreign environment and need to eat a salad or something.
>>16875242
Circular logic and avoiding the question to deny the truth.
It's a simple yes or no answer.
And you can't answer it because you refuse to accept the truth.
There's a term used for people who have a cognitive bias towards their own knowledge and fight to protect their own ignorance without being aware of it. His attitude usually breeds in other ignorant people they talk to. You are a dangerous person.
You should reverse lookup that loose vague definition. The answer is clear, and much more.
>>16875239
It sounds like you are someone who only sees what he wants to see. You're judging people and projecting about their beliefs without even trying to understand any of them.
>>16875246
>Does believing in god help you feel like your never alone? Kinda like.. you always have a friend who's got your back?
Hmmm not really. I dont really feel like Im alone though. If anything its more embarrassing. Just think that every time you fap hes watching over you.
> Do you pray and go to church? Do you like it? Do you feel closer to your god?
Yes. Prayer is really important to me. I hate when god slips my mind and I only remember him when Im in trouble. This plague me as a child and I was too ashamed to pray in my toughest moments because of it. I see it as more of a dialogue usually filled with my appreciation and willing to accept his will.
>Do you believe the bible is true?
Yes
>do you think they were telling the truth?
Do you think they were lying? I mean we have terms to explain things better now than they did. And speaking metaphorically was a bigger deal to them than to us.
>What is your view of heaven?
A place where one can bask in Gods presence.
>what is your view on science?
theres nothing contradictory with them. But I need hard evidence to accept theories in general. After studying physics in college (major) if I took anything away from it, it would be that we dont really understand anything. But we are working on it.
>>16875258
Its literally right there. Try reading. There is nothing to deny. The answer changes nothing.
>>16875260
Ive spent 5 years living with a few atheist and I make an effort to engage in dialog about religion when the chance comes up with people if the time and place are right (we are already discussing something religious). It just seems more like you are unhappy with the result and wish to judge me.
>>16875265
Mate.. This isn't about MY interpretation.. This is about yours.
You are the one who doesn't put toxins in his body.
You don't eat pork (or meat for that matter), you don't drink alcohol, you try your best to eat organic foods.
Why is this?
>>16875280
Cause it sounds like the behaviour of a lot of atheists I know...
>>16875264
Cool thanks for the answers OP
>>16875280
This is completely unrelated to religion. I love my body and wish to keep it it the best condition possible. I can feel when the difference when I intake toxic items. Its hard to explain. Maybe Im more susceptible to them or Im just more aware of them.
>>16875292
Not OP if that helps. He was never in this thread it seems like.
>>16875310
oh rly? Okay then thanks for the answers anon!
Feels like I'm back in my freshman Intro to Science and Religion course. No academic religious scholars deny the science of evolution and other established phenomenon. Stop reading books by pseudo-intellectual evangelicals. Those people aren't taken seriously by any true theologian.
Taking prayer requests, ChristOP?
Please pray for me. I need a lot of strength today.
>>16875141
Then explain it? Did Jesus not die on the cross to pay for the sins of mankind or am I misinterpreting. It seems pretty clearly written...a lot.
And again, if I fry for mine you fry for yours. We all sin.
Why can't the one guy from my biology lectures who approaches me to talk NOT invite me to Christian Union shit
Why do they want me to read John's gospel and shit
Why is this guy telling me the bible is more important than my studies because it decides the afterlife and blahblah
holy shit I thought Christians were the cool non-annoying guys nice job
>>16874200
Okay, OP.
I used to be really deep into the church, the bible, and Jesus. Now I find myself moving further and further away from it. I've been burned bad by so many Christians for being different and disagreeing and asking questions.. it's pretty discouraging when someone asks a question and someone says, "pray about it."
Like. Really? But I asked YOU.
Anyway. I'm sad, meng. Did I ever believe on God? Did I waste all of those years?
Unfortunately, they were the most happy and comfortable I have ever been with myself during that time.
Now I'm a mess. Smoking pot everyday, not eating, ignoring the people I love.
I just dont understand what happened.
>>16875650
Sounds obvious that the further you get away from God, the more miserable you become, but your pride won't let you be controlled by something you don't fully understand. Pride.
The evidence is right before your eyes. Stop trying to understand God, and accept that when you were walking the path, you were happier, and more joyful.
>>16875695
mfw anon frees himself from delusion, suffers derpression bc "my world view is dead"
OP's advice: Go back to delusion.
>>16876310
Essentially. Way to go, Christfags!
>>16874200
>its a Christian thread
Your daughters will be Muslim inshallah
>>16875650
Hey there, Anon. I'm not a Christian, but I've been in the same situation you're in. I'll share my thoughts with you, but that's all that they are. It's not guaranteed that it will be the answer you're looking for.
I was raised in the church. I read my bible every day, I went to a private school, and I went to church three times a week. I was obsessed with "Living in the glory of god" and living a life "for" Christ. But as I got older, I saw a lot of flaws in the ideology. Instead of being a rebelious teen, I went to my parents and my church and asked them sincere questions, asking for answers from inside and outside the bible. There were always three answers that bothered me. Pray about it, God just works in mysterious ways, and you can't use "worldly" logic to describe holy things!
This bothered me a lot. It felt strange that I could see logical flaws and "know in my heart" that the things going on around me were just people influencing one another, yet everyone else seemed oblivious to it. I guess the breaking point was when I asked my pastor about the nature of man, and free will. If it exists, what the implications are if it does or doesn't, why god could "harden the heart" of pharoah, and how it made sense that an infinite being could pass judgement on his finite creations. Questions like this got everyone at my church BTFO, foreal. So eventually I was told to shut up and just pay my tithe.
To me, the answer is simple:
It is the right and duty of every man, to gather what he can from his life, and to choose the path that is most logical to him. What is morally right and wrong comes naturally to most people. You don't have to live a life "for" Christ. You don't even have to live a life "about" Christ. You should try to live a life "Like" Christ. Everything else is bullshit.
Just look around you. It doesn't take much to stand out or be important in other people's lives. Just don't be an asshole. That's it.
>>16874455
>There are no fossil records
Why just cus you say so?
I say the sun does not exist, does that mean it doesn't?
I must inform you and everyone on here that you are clinically retarded.
>>16876696
Religion
Not even ONCE!
>>16876460
Funny how christianity is a knock off religion of Judaism.
Of course it cant be real, its not even the original, countless rewrites and entire parts thrown out for political reasons.
Judaism is the real religion, but it doent matter cus its just a bunch of children's fables
>>16876460
This.
Either religion is at fault for being too vague for man to understand, or man is at fault for being too dumb to understand religion.
Mix that in with mysterious answers to simple questions like the fag above who passes his ignorance and lack of knowledge onto others as the word of God and you have a downhill slide into stupidity.
Either way, most religions and man are not made for one another. Evidenced by the lack of peace religion brings us, even within the same religion.
Find your own path in life because it's literally impossible to stick to the vague misleading unclear multiple paths that religion tells you to follow.
>>16874200
Do you REALLY believe that bad people are going to be punished in an eventual afterlife? Sounds mighty convenient to me.
Wish it were true though.
>>16875650
Anon, don't listen to the fuckwit below. He is telling you you're sad because you are far from God, and that to be happy you have to stop trying to understand God (be further from God). That makes no sense. He is literally asking you to be stupid and subservient. You want questions answered but they tell you not to ask questions... Because there are no absolute answers.
Anon, you are fine. Feel what you want to feel, what you find and accept is all valid for yourself. Other people's answers may not be your answers. The inclusion of God or religion in this equation is irrelevant.
Depression is normal for a lot of people to go through and you'll find a way out of it. Be around people who care and support and accept whatever type of person you are. One by one, try to think of the positive things in situations you would normally associate with being negative.
Even read and give some advice on /adv/ and the thanks you get mitt help you feel better.
>>16875695
Your logic and comprehension is broken. You are ignorant and delusional. Please stop talking to people.
>>16876861
This guy knows.
>>16875449
see>>16875037
You are going to fry. My sins are mild and Im fairly repentant for them. Im not foolish enough to think that I can sin and get away with it. We will all face judgment one day. Prepare to fry though.
>>16876696
Where are these fossil records of the species the homo sapien evolved from and the species in between? I missed this day of bsing evolution class.
>>16876823
Of course they are going to be punished. Its scarier than convenient. I mean if I could do bad things and get away with it that would be great. Instead I have to try to do good things, still end up doing bad things and feeling bad about it only to be punished later for it.
>>16878012
The most logical scenario here is that when YOU meet your judgement and if there is a God he will say to you -
'What the fuck dude? Are you that stupid to believe the Chinese whispers people have spoken about me over the years? I put you on this earth to figure your own shit out but you go ahead and believe stuff that's OBVIOUSLY utter nonsense. Why would I.. God.. put people through the kind of troubles you put yourself through in my name? And then you go and spout this nonsense to your fellow man and spread your own misguided words. Through your ignorance you are giving me a bad name. You are not a leader for people to follow. How dare you think that you are. You make me embarrassed that I ever created man in the first place..'
>>16878081
lol no. God doesnt exist to appeal to you. This is so unreasonable its cracking me up. Normally Id dissect the entire thing but you are being too facetious.
>>16878106
>you are being too facetious
No, I am being sensible and logical. The only thing I've taken liberty with is that God might speak with the colloquialism of a modern day human. And why not? I'd be supremely pissed if I was God and found out people like you were strutting around speaking on my behalf.
>>16878125
You have assumptions about God as if he fits the image you want him to have.
Ask yourself this. Why would god create you so you can do whatever the fuck you want and not believe in him.
You probably have this idea that god is 100% selfless and only acts to appease you to the point of being a ghost. That kind of projection is most sickening but hilarious to think about.
If Christians were able to use logic there wouldn't be any Christians.
>>16878131
Why don't you answer my first question here?>>16874704
If you are the same anon I think you are, all you've done is sidestep important questions with 'the answer is there' 'the answer is simple' without actually being able to provide an answer yourself.
You're a self referential joke in a cyclical loop.
Yes I have assumptions about God. Everyone has assumptions about God. So do you, but you refuse to admit it to yourself.
Let it go. Ease up on the mystery and accept that your religion is just your own personal view of here-say carried down over the last couple of millennia. It is literally impossible to believe in something absolutely if it doesn't have clear and concise definition.
>>16878240
If there weren't any Christians, they would be unable to use logic. QED.
>>16878257
I dont know what the hell you are talking about but reading that post just sounds like someone who wants their hand held. I dont believe God has any intention of holding our hands more than necessary.
>>16878257
>Yes I have assumptions about God
aka
>why doesnt god fit my selfish agenda
>>16878000
>my sins are mild
All sin is equally ugly in the eyes of god. If accepting Jesus isn't enough for one person than it isn't enough for anybody. Your views are anti-christian.
>>16878283
>All sin is equally ugly in the eyes of god
Do know where you pulled that from lol. Guess God's never targeted a city filled with homosexuals before.
>>16878283
No Ian, you're the Antichrist.
>>16878284
>http://www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg193.htm
He actually didnt.
Also
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
>>16878291
Thats quite the liberal misuse. Doesnt change the part about frying and destroying all the faggots.
You realize that faggots are put to death immediately according to christian law as ordain by god so that they may fry for all eternity.
>>16874536
This isn't quite correct. Both the Catholic church and many of the Eastern Rite churches accept that evolution may be a valid theory, but the official position of the churches that fall under Rome's umbrella is that there is no official position on the matter, it being a mechanical issue.
>>16878306
I mean, its a theory. A guess bro. Dont treat it as more. Facts are called laws. When its called the law of evolution hit me up and maybe Ill by into the whole evolution nonsense.
>>16878297
How is it a liberal misuse? You keep saying that like you're interpretation is the only right interpretation just because you say so.
And even so the point remains that if accepting christ isn't enough to be saved than you're going to fry to.
>>16878240
Thanks meme man, that quote never gets old no matter how many atheists quote it
>>16874200
Are you a proper Christian or one of dem protestant wannabees?
>>16878643
It's a clear message. Into the fryer with you.
You can't be gay and accept Christ. That's a hilarious contradiction. But if you didn't want to fry you would not be gay
