1. Stop masturbating, no matter how difficult this is. Take extreme measures if necessary.

2. Start masturbating to other things, not my friend. For example, porn.

3. Start masturbating to my wife, even if I don't find her attractive, in the hope that I condition myself to desire her again.

4. Some other option that I've not considered (please supply).

I am going to have one last try at making things work between me and my wife. We've talked. She says that she recognizes that we've lost whatever connection we used to have and will try to rebuild it with me. I don't have any faith in her, because she's made promises before that she broke, so many times. But I'm going to try.
I'm pretty sure that my feelings for my friend and my masturbatory behaviour are going to be very unhelpful with this.

So, /adv/, advise me please. I'm struggling with this situation that I've gotten myself into, and I can't see what I should do next. Any and all comments will be welcomed - but if you're just going to tell me that I'm an idiot then I kinda already figured that out. Just saying.

get a fucking divorce and go have fun times with that other girl
say goodbye to all your money though.

>>16634885

all these options are counter productive. the issue isnt that you are masturbating. if it realyl was you'd just pull up some porn.

yo u and your wife are done. you made it sound like shes even cheated on you? if life would be too complicated to divorce then just cheat on her until you are ready.

>>16634910
I've considered that.
Other girl is just a friend though, and she's married (well, separated and possibly on the way to a divorce). I would be overjoyed if we ended up together, but it doesn't seem likely. I need to stop daydreaming about wonderful possibilities and face up to reality.
Divorce would be too expensive for me, I'm not a rich guy. Wife does not work and is dependent on me in several ways that I don't want to discuss on here. I'm pretty sure that I don't have any option other than to make things work between us.

I'm in an almost identical situation and don't know the answer either so I can only sympathise.

My advice would be to end your current relationship before embarking on anything new with your friend, but only when you're sure nothing else can be done for your current one.

Best of luck, anon.

Have you thought about couple's counseling? I highly recommend it.

You're not in the wrong for finding yourself attractive to another woman in the absence of your wife's affections et cetera. The masturbation isn't the issue, though you're right to be concerned with it, it's just akin to worrying about the excess water on a ship that has a breach in the hull instead of the actual breach.

I'm glad that you have spoken with your wife, and it's probably wise to be weary. I'd take this as a last chance, and definitely look seriously into couple's counseling. I'm certain that she's not blowing you off consistently because she wants to, there's likely things weighing on her too that's causing her behaviour. Just remember that she's human too. Sometimes when things are scary it's better to blow them off.

If and likely when it comes to this, do not turn away from the possibility of divorce. This is your life man, you deserve to be happy or whatever.

Best of luck to you friend.

>>16634914
She hasn't cheated on me, so far as I know, although there was an incident when we were first getting together.

I don't want to cheat on her.
But sometimes I wish she'd just die - it would make things simpler.
Maybe we can get past this. Other couples have gone through periods of hatred and ended up strong together. There's no real venom between me and my wife, just distance and indifference.

>>16634885
>>16634882

Alright there anon, I'm gonna help you out.

Therapy won't work. Visiting a psychologist won't work.

What you need to find out is how to become attractive and a sexual person to your wife again.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that your wife should go down on you, or that you should fuck twice a week.

Now, do the same to your dick. Yell and argue for it to get up on command.

You cannot logic arousal. They are two different things. What you can do is logic what makes arousal happen.

You sound like a smart guy. Start looking for stuff that makes women, well, aroused. Don't listen to women about it. Listen to guys who have experience with getting with women.

>>16634926
Thank you for the luck.
I am going to make this one last attempt. If it doesn't work then yes, I'll look at ways to end it. Even if I don't then move on to my friend, it would be the right thing.
I need to love and be loved. The past nine years have destroyed me.

>>16634882
As a married man myself, but with a happy marriage, I'm sad to actually recommend a divorce for you.

Sure, we have our ups and downs, but we both pull our weight to make it work. I get the impression that in your marriage, you're the only one doing so, and if she doesn't make an effort, I see no reason why you should stay committed to her.

You tried, she didn't. Time to move on.

For the record, I too masturbate to the thought of someone else now and then, but not on a regular basis.

>>16634930
I suggested counseling to her, a couple of days ago. She was upset and resistant, but has agreed to evaluate our situation again with me in a month - and if things aren't improving then she says she'll attend counseling with me.
I think this is the best I can hope for at the moment.
Some times I feel like I could just walk away, but I do love her still and I want to make this wish if I can...
My friend had been very supportive, and helped me get to the point where I suggested counseling (rather than just ignoring the problems). This is helpful, yeah, but at the same time makes me feel as though my friend is much more concerned for my well-being and happiness than my wife has ever been. It's not an ideal situation, really.

>>16634937

its been years since you even had sex. if you wanna get back with her, focus on that. not on masturbation.

but you'd be better off just divorcing her and getting out.

>>16634941
I've talked to her about the lack of sexual intimacy. She acknowledges that it's a fact, but doesn't seem that concerned. She's agreed with me to try and work on things, but nothing ever comes of it.
I'm hoping that me suggesting counseling will scare her enough into realizing that I'm serious, and that we have serious problems that we need to address.
The sex is probably about 30% of our problems as far as I'm concerned, but it's a big visible thing.

>>16634990

You haven't read my post.

You cannot negotiate attraction. You cannot convince someone to love you. You need to find out how to become attractive.

You are attacking the problem all wrong. You are using a hammer when you need to go find and learn how to use a scalpel.

For 9 goddamn years you've tried talking about it. and for 9 years it hasn't worked. You need to try something else.

>>16634882
Talk to your wife. Don't tell her about your crush but be real and say you need things from her and you were tempted to look elsewhere but you're committed to working on this. Maybe go on some dates or something.

You're not really in love with your friend, OP. She's just filling something you're not getting from your wife.

>>16634948
Pff.
This is what my inner voice tells me.

Maybe she just didn't realise that she needed to try, though - maybe I've not been forward enough about explaining my needs.

Whilst talking the other day, I tried to explain to her that it hurts me when she shows no interest in my life and what I'm up to, that she's never excited or encouraging when I succeed at something difficult, that she is indifferent to my dreams and aspirations.
She told me that, when taking to her friends, she IS encouraging and positive and engaged (which I know, because I hear her) but she thought that with me she could "be herself" and not bother with that because she didn't think I needed that.
So, yeah. I guess we both have a different outlook.
I don't want her to fake enthusiasm, but always getting nothing back at all is killing me.
Maybe things will be different this time.

>>16635020
I'm trying. She doesn't want to do anything together except watch tv.
I'm trying.

>>16635016
I can't "be a sexual person to my wife again" if she won't spend time with me, won't talk with me, won't engage with me as anything other than a room-mate.
Romantic gestures are ignored. Plans to do things or go places are broken by her at the last minute for no reason. Surprises are rejected. Affection is ignored.
If she doesn't want me any more then I wish she'd just be honest about it, instead of telling me "I'm happy when you're happy, I just need you to love me, that's all" and that she doesn't need anything more from me.
Fuck that.

>>16635046
I know you're trying. You seem really level headed and sincere. Better men would have bedded their friend by now. You need to be as blunt with her as possible and ask her to take responsibilty for her part in saving your marriage. A modern thing to do is log all of your attempts at getting through to her and either shove them in her face as one last resort or possibly use as justification for cheating.. also to be shoved in her face. Probably by an attorney at a mediation.

Leave your stupid wife mate. You're doing her and yourself a disservice by staying with someone you don't love and who doesn't love you. At this point you're not going to work things out.

Most people would have left long before getting to this point, especially if they had another prospect lined up.

>>16635086

Maybe that isn't what she wants.

Maybe being lovey dovey and romantic isn'w what she wants. Maybe she doesn't want to be worshipped but instead wants a man to worship.

Think about it this way. You love your kids but you aren't sexually attracted to your kids. Your kids do things to make you happy, because they love and respect you. They give you gifts from time to time, get worried when you get angry, and generally try to please you.

You are acting like a kid to your wife. You are giving her shit she hasn't earned. You are an adult, and not a child. When you act like a child to your wife, you generate that kind of love in her. She loves you like a child. She does not love you like an adult. An adults love is generated by attraction and respect.

So stop acting like a kid to her and start acting like an adult.

>>16635159
The things I do that I'd consider "adult", such as making my own way in the world, having opinions values and principles, taking care of my health, managing our household and its finances, socializing, being a sexual being, keeping in touch with family, trying to take care of her health, taking interest in the world... these things mean nothing to her. She doesn't admire my strength and self sufficiency in taking care of everything without any support from her: she is oblivious. If I try to discuss anything with her she is bored and negative. She wants "cuddles and you to be happy". I don't think that the problem is that she relates to me as if I were a child. I don't think that I can make any progress by trying to show her different sides of myself - she isn't interested. She doesn't see me at all.

I'm not sure what exactly you are suggesting that I should do: I would be interested to hear some actual examples so that I can understand you better.

>>16635225

You see, you are doing things that you consider adult and attractive. What you are doing that you consider attractive and the things she considers attractive are two different things. And you need to recognize that because it sounds like for 9 years you haven't. Does your dick get hard when a chick works at starbucks? Do you get hot and bothered when she tells you she owns an apartment? No? Then why do you expect your wife to be sexually attracted to that?

Now, you are acting in a way like a child would to a distant, inconsiderate parent. You still try to "win" their affection through gifts, romantic gestures, etc. But you are not treating her like an adult.

Gifts, romantic gestures, being affectionate. These are the things she has to earn as your spouse and as your wife. Is she affectionate toward you? Then you aren't affectionate to her. You are giving her love and affection ready and waiting, but the problem is she hasn't earned it. Like a child trying to win their parents love.

Just lay it down in front of her. This is what you expect from her, and if you don't get it you will get it from somewhere else. She has one month to get her shit together or she leaves. There is no arguments, no negotiating. This is what you want And if you don't get it you are gone.

This is your marriage and she has to contribute something toward it as an adult.

>>16634937
>There's no real venom between me and my wife
I find it curious you would say this when you said twice in your OP that "she is selfish and self centered"

Seems like you resent her quite a bit.

>>16635159
>words words words

just words man what the fuck does it even mean

>>16635271
I get what you're saying.
I've told her what I need, and she doesn't care. I've then felt guilty for making things one sided and asked her what she needs from me, what she wants to be happy, and she doesn't have any answers for me.

I'm starting to sound bitter now, which wasn't my intention. But I never feel as alone as when I'm with her.

If you're suggesting that I don't give her love/attention when I'm not getting anything back, then I've already tried that (albeit not intentionally) for most of the last two years. It made absolutely zero difference to how she interacted with me. She wasn't any more inclined to chase me and seek my interest; she wasn't upset or bothered. We just carried on living our parallel lives, the only difference being that I didn't waste time trying to make nice things happen.

Keeping all this in mind, it's easier to remind myself that I'm probably not in love with my (amazing) friend - I'm just lonely and she's a decent human being.

>>16635294
She's told me herself that she's selfish. Years ago, I didn't want to believe it. Now I don't have any choice.
I don't hate her for it, though - I'm just acknowledging that these are the facts of the situation.

>>16635328

Then you start taking more things away.

She starts sleeping on the couch and not in your bed.

You need to start being a cold, cold as stone mofo right now OP. For years you've acted like, well, a pushover. Always being concilliatory, trying to be diplomatic, always giving in to her and trying to make herself happy. Just be stone cold. No emotions, no smiles, no laughing, no giggling with her. She has to work for a smirk.

Start demanding that she makes you happy. Start making demands that she has to live up to if she wants you around.

For example, a big one would be: We start having sex or I start sleeping with others. I catch you sleeping around and the marriage is over. I've been trying with no effort from your part, now you have one month or get out.

Or other things would be: Honey, start cooking some home meals for me or you don't use the kitchen.

People value what they have to work for. The sunk cost fallacy. Start making it work for you. And people don't value what is given freely.