Happy birthday!
You are still young, you don't have to make rush decisions about this. The most important thing about kids is that they learn what they see as a whole and they can't be lied to. They will learn to lie and be two-faced if you do. So, if you are decent with them, they see a good example and you raise them well, they will make you happier than any person alive. If you are someone who can't be respeced and not honest, they will be trouble.

>>16602267
i guess i'm asking because my boyfriend has been hinting at "the long term" with me... i know he wants to get married some day, but i also know that we're better off without kids. i'd like to think we're both very honest and decent people. my boyfriend in particular, has a huge heart and he is very smart... however, i know he stresses out easily.

so in other words, i love my boyfriend so much; i think i can probably live the rest of my life with him. but i don't think having kids with him is a good idea. i would never want my kids to grow up without a dad or to witness a miserable marriage.

but if i end up wanting kids, i think i should break up with him and probably find someone who i am compatible with and can handle stress better.

>>16602297
If you think you can live the rest of your life with him, why do you think your marriage will be miserable and that you are incompatible?

Kids suck, and probably 90% of people who have them never thought about it and thought it was "just the right thing to do". Then they end up hating their lives and get resentful towards people without kids, so they trick/shame them into having kids as well so now everybody is at least equally fucked.

So don't have kids if you don't want them. Don't have them if you're not sure either. Just think real hard and long

>>16602314
because kids are a huge strain financially and emotionally, and i already mentioned how my bf stresses out very easily.

i can help him with his stress now, as a girlfriend... because my attention would be on him 100%. with kids, my attention and care would be split... and his stress would not be as manageable.

he gets a lot of feelings of "worthlessness" and i'm 1000% sure that during hard times with the kids or finance, he'll blame himself and recklessly hurt himself.

i love him, and we care about each other a lot... but we just wouldn't make good parents together.

>>16602345
yep, this is what i suspected.

>Don't have them if you're not sure either. Just think real hard and long

thanks, good advice... though i have been thinking about this for a very long time... i'm always on the fence. so i suppose kids are not for me.

>>16602354
You're only 23, there is honestly no reason to be thinking about kids. Not to be a debbie downer but there's also a good chance you will not end up with your current bf. Just enjoy your life, don't take things too seriously, and see how you feel when you're older

>>16602347
he sounds like a total fag btw

>>16602362
>Not to be a debbie downer but there's also a good chance you will not end up with your current bf.

i get that... it's just that i don't want to end up wasting his time either. it also made me realize about my other life plans... i just feel it's better to consider these things.

>>16602347
Kids will give him a sense of purpose and validation. If he has a huge heart and is very smart, he will learn to cope with stress. As far as hard times go, you can be a nasty bitch and give him hard times, or be decent, and he won't have hard times. If you are both decent and can cope well together, you will make good parents.

>>16602391
>Kids will give him a sense of purpose and validation.

i agree with this, which is why i feel like his stress and feelings of worthlessness will suffer all the more when things get tough. like he would feel he's not a good enough husband or father.

he is smart with a big heart, but when he's deeply stressed, he needs time alone and a lot of patience and support from me. i'm able to do this now because i can handle most things, but with kids? i'll probably be pretty worn out... which in turn would probably cause him to feel like i don't love him, and all kinds of mess.

i'm sorry to say, but i know my boyfriend isn't very strong emotionally... i'm often the one supporting him. i don't know if i can handle both him and kids.

>>16602435
>i feel like his stress and feelings of worthlessness will suffer all the more when things get tough
Feelings of worthlessness and stress come if you lack purpose and validaion. If you have a settled and respected role in society like having a beautiful loving wife and good kids, you will go through harships because you have someone to do it for. If he is smart, he has what it takes to go through hardships. If you start bitching and stop supporting him, his stress issues will get worse because he will feel himself emasculated.

>i'm often the one supporting him
Try to give him some confidence and validation instead of being a shoulder to cry on. Emotional issues usually stem from insecurity if he is smart and has what it takes to do what he needs to do.

>>16602253
>are they worth it?

Weird way to think about it. You should have kids because you want kids. Having kids would be your goal. They're not the little bump on the road on the way to your goal. They're just little beings with no inherent value to anybody else. Is it worth buying a new watch? Who knows? Do you want a new watch? Do you like watches? Could you realistically see yourself wearing a watch for the next 20 years?

>>16602253
>and is there anyone who regrets having kids? we're on 4chan here, so it's ok to admit if you do... please, i just want the truth.
There's been times where I wished they were out of the house, but I've never wished they were never born.

>>16602253
>all i ever hear are people saying how amazing having kids are
Well they do cost a lot, you have to justify your investment.
>but i kind of feel like it's some sort of trick with how hostile these people get if they find out someone decided not to have kids. they pressure others, and push their beliefs, and shame them if they don't comply...
Sounds like you hang around some real idiots
>and they're trying to force others to believe them too. it's like christians and how buttmad they get if someone doesn't believe in god and/or don't follow their rigid lifestyle.
Or they are just proud of their kids?

My wife and I have a 10yo son and a 5yo daughter (currently playing with their xmas presents), we both wanted kids, we both lived our lives and saw places and did things before we settled down.
For my wife it was seeing other couples with kids that made her really broody, like she knew she wanted kids at some point, but then she WANTED to have a baby.
You might meet the right person and want to settle down with them, you might see other couples with kids and want kids, you might just decide that you want to have a baby, I can't tell you what will make you want (or not want) kids.

Some reasons you probably shouldn't want to have kids:
>you are lonely and just want someone to unconditionally love you (the child)
>you met someone financially secure and think you can live off of having their kid
>"time is running out"

At the end of the day, you are 23, there is no rush.

>>16602253
I know a lot of women who thought they disliked kids suddenly decide that yes, they really want kids, once they're past 30 and in a steady relationship.

I'd say it's not something you "decide". If you logic yourself into thinking you want kids and then go on and have them when you're not ready because "it's what you should do", you may end up regretting things; kids are a lot, A LOT of work and you never stop being a parent. A British writer once characterised parenthood as "finding out that despite your belief to the contrary, yes, you can be even more exhausted than you previously thought possible". But on the other hand, having kids does something to you, and people usually end up loving their offspring even if they'd feel conflicted during the pregnancy or early infanthood.

A lot of people feel offended when someone expresses that they're turning their back on their lifestyle and choices. I've seen a lot of people who dislike creative freelancers with great vitriol, for example, and I think it's because they feel they "had" to choose the life they did (degree, marry young, mortgage, kids, "good job" to pay the loans, never had time to travel or do something "crazy") because it was "expected" of them, it's "what you have to do" - and so they feel resentment towards people who chose something else. It's not related to parenthood, it's just one more facet of life where this sort of "choose what I chose or I see you as spitting on my life and choices" attitude manifests.

You have to figure out personally if you want kids or not. No-one else can see into your head and tell you if you have the stamina or desire to but you

>>16602253
become a christmas cake

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>>16602253
you're never too young to be thinking about this. In fact, the sooner you make your mind, the better it is: less chance to have and keep unwanted pregnancy if you've made your mind crystal clear, because it takes iron will to do what's needed then, even if ultimately it's for the best. Also, you should check with CF (child free) communities.

As far as I'm concerned, people I know with children simply can't admit they regret their choice. I've had only one close friend nearly admitting he regretted, but I think the social expectations and our own programming makes it impossible to admit regretting 'the best thing that can happen to you'. So he kind of said he regretted, but then added that 'it's not that bad when it's your own'.

Expecting parents are bipolar: from the high of conceiving, announcing the child and waiting for it; to the low of having it: constant, incessant requirements of the newborn. It never stops, day and night, for years. Oh and are you sick often? Because when it get older and start putting everything in it's mouth, you'll both be sick a lot.

I could go on all day about how parents rationalize the costs of having children or the emotional downfall of couples following a child or the living hell of mothers going into deep postpartum depression, but ultimately if you don't make your own research and your own mind about it, it'll be for nothing.

So if I can say one thing I wished sticked with you, it'd be this: the world don't need you to procreate, so if you do, make sure you think it through and do it for you, because a child is very fragile and depends heavily on it's parents to have a chance to strive in life.

By the way, I was told at 20 that I was too young to decide, that 'I would change my mind', etc... Guess what: I never changed my mind and looking around, I'm really happy I didn't. Having kids is not for everyone. Especially not for me.

>>16602472
this does make me feel a bit better about him and marriage and possibly kids, so thank you for that.

i still do have my doubts, but i suppose it's because i lack the courage to raise a child myself.

>>16602526
lets say if i had to choose between 2 paths of my next 20 years, i'd just like to have some insight on the path that i don't know much about... and naturally, i would like to choose the one that makes me and my s/o happiest.

>>16602659
thanks for sharing your experience.
>Sounds like you hang around some real idiots
this is just something i know a lot of people go through with. i know my own mom is expecting me to have kids one day, but the happiest/best decisions i've made were ones that weren't dictated by her.

>>16602659
>It's not related to parenthood, it's just one more facet of life where this sort of "choose what I chose or I see you as spitting on my life and choices" attitude manifests.
i suppose so; seems like the having children thing is much more pressuring though since it's a universal thing.

>>16602788
thank you, this is how i feel; the sooner i make up my mind about this, the better. i want to know all the pros and cons about having children, if they're the right fit for me, and if i would ever regret the decision.

>people I know with children simply can't admit they regret their choice.
and this is where i start doubting the "children are the best thing that can happen to you" types. i've seen plenty of shitty parents, and too many unhappy looking single moms to really feel like it's something everyone would appreciate. i'm 99% sure there are people who regret having children... they just can't admit it due to how taboo it is to do so.

i love my boyfriend, but i simply feel we aren't going to be happy parents together and we'd be much better off child-less. last thing i'd want is a divorce with kids involved; i've been there, and i'd never wish the same on my own kids.

>>16602253
Think about it this way. In sixty years time you can either have a lifetime of memories, pride and contentedness at your own genetic efficacy, things like teaching your kids how to ride bikes, graduating, grandchildren etc. or you can have like an 250000 dollars, ie a new Porsche or something. You choose

Ps, only reproduce if you are european

>>16603100
they're equally tempting to be honest...
i can imagine a comfortable life with my boyfriend... would be good for his stress and anxiety. we can travel and experience what the world has to offer together. sounds like a dream.

i can also imagine raising a kid... just not with my current boyfriend. i love raising and taking care of things, but i'd only feel comfortable doing this if i knew my s/o would be on board with me 1000% and willing to sacrifice everything for the child, which i know he can't realistically do with me. it's just in his personality.

i know my boyfriend pretty well at this point...
one time, i was just giving him a fair warning about how i'd prefer brutal honesty over sugar-coated lies because of a horrible experience with my ex.

his anxiety kicked in and he nearly flipped his shit, thinking i was going to dump him and he made a mess of himself explaining how it's unfair to compare him to my ex. took me a while to calm him down and explain i wasn't about to dump him and i was just sharing my past experience.

yeah... i love the guy and he treats me well. but children probably aren't a good idea with him.

>>16603170
He sounds like a massive loser desu, spinning out at the concept of personal responsibility. Find a proper man and make some children, you will be miserable when youre old enough to understand wealth beyond material

>>16602253
Father of 3 here. While my first was a suprise i didn't expect at all, in retrospect the 4 years since have been amazing.

But i'm not gonna lie: kids are exhausting, especially the first couple of months. But they're worth it.

>>16603192
he's not a loser, but he does have some issues to work out before considering having a child.
and i'd want to have a happy husband before i'd want a child. i'd rather not have children at all if it meant making my husband unhappy.

>>16603196
how would you describe yourself before you had kids? that's something i should've asked everyone itt.

>>16603170
>willing to sacrifice everything for the child
NO. No no no no. Please, people, stop saying this. The children do not benefit AT ALL from you 'sacrificing everything'. Yes, children do require sacrifice of your time, energy, etc, but it's not good for them at all for you to become a parent-bot. Do not 'sacrifice' intimacy or your personal identity for the sake of your child, keep your marriage and relationship with your husband strong and it will benefit their mental well being immensely and grant them a feeling of security.

sincerely, a mother of 3

You're going to get wildly varying answers because people are wildly different. You'll learn more from introspection than you will here. Consider what you want and then do that. Do you want to live life for yourself or for children? Because once you have kids, basically everything you do is for them. There's nothing wrong with living your life for yourself despite what people tell you. If you think there's enough out there in the world to keep you fulfilled, then just go do that stuff.

>>16602253
Talk to anyone with kids long enough, and if they're honest, you'll know they often go back and forth between loving and hating having kids. Honestly, at 26, I can see myself being painfully bored in a decade or so without kids to keep me busy, but without a mate that isn't happening.

>>16602297
>i love my boyfriend so much; i think i can probably live the rest of my life with him. but i don't think having kids with him is a good idea.

You are 24 and still far too young to be having kids. Wait until you're 30.

If you really do love him I don't think you should break up over something like this. Nobody is perfect and you will hate yourself if you end up with someone who isn't as good.

Give it 5 years and you should both be more mature.

>>16603266
This. It isn't all sunshine and rainbows, and everyone misses being an independent young person every now and again. For many, that time comes and goes and then they're ready for something bigger. Kids are great because you get to see a little mini-you grow from cute little alien worm thing to fully realized adult-- it's all very fulfilling.

OP, it sounds like you want to be a mother. It's normal to not want to at 24. You have a lot of time still. But the closer you get to 30, the more you will start to be unsure, and wonder about children. If you feel unsure about your current boyfriend, then that's a thing to think about. It doesn't sound like he is bad-- really, as long as he doesn't yell or become violent like my father did, he probably won't be so terrible a parent. No one's parents are perfect, but as long as you think he's willing to try his best then things will work out for the better. If you think he will run away, though, then maybe it's time to look for a more stable guy?

>>16603282
>Wait until you're 30.
>Wait until your chance of an autistic/down syndrome baby has jumped significantly
kek, I wonder who's behind this post

>>16603299
I find that weird. Everyone I know wants children when they are 30. Like, what?

I want to be somewhat youthful and not bitter with my first child. I'm aiming for 28.

Lol this thread made my day. I know how you feel OP, my family(specifically) the women, seem to almost want me to get preggo. I guess they're teasing but I'm not ready for kids. Yeah, I see how kids are great but my god they are also little shit heads. I rather opt to not have kids, I'm glad my bf doesn't really care to have them either. I'd wait til I'm around 28 or something. I wanna live and love life, ya know...get fucked up and sleep whenever and however long I want? Yeah can't do that with kids.

>>16603257
if i can't give my 100% to every aspect of our relationship, then i'd consider that to be a sacrifice. husband and the baby is sick? guess who's taking first priority? i'll have to tell my man to man up and try to take care of himself until the baby is better. i'll do what i can for the husband, but i'd be most worried about the kid... i'd need my husband to understand that and feel no resentment about it.

>>16603264
thanks, i get what you mean. i guess it's because i'm literally 50/50 on this issue. i suppose i'll learn to be happy with wherever life takes me in the end. i just need to make sure whoever i'm spending the rest of my life with is also going to be happy.

>>16603266
i suppose i can see that. i guess though, with my career that's starting off, i'm not too concerned about being bored later in life. i'm an illustrator/animator/concept artist, which is my biggest passion so far.

>>16603308
I'm 26 right now and pregnant with my first. I see it as the perfect time, kind of an in-between of youth and middle age. Then I'm shooting for my next at 28, and 30. Of course I'm lucky to be with a man that I'm sure about and have been for 10 years, so that made the choice a lot easier for me.

>>16603282
30 is not too far away if i have to re-consider who i'm dating and going to marry... not like i can force someone to marry me; the dating period can last up to 5 years from what i know.

i suppose you're right though. no one is perfect, and i haven't loved some one so much in a long time. and i know he feels the same way.

the thing is, he's already 28. he's definitely thinking about marriage with me, which kind of scared me at first, but i'm starting to accept it if it happens. if not, then it gives me a bit more time.

>>16603292
>But the closer you get to 30, the more you will start to be unsure, and wonder about children.
this is exactly what i want to avoid... the last thing i'd want to do is pressure someone into having kids with me. ultimately, i just want to live a happy life with someone, kids or no kids.

>It doesn't sound like he is bad-- really, as long as he doesn't yell or become violent
my dad was just like this, which is another reason why i'm being very selective and careful about this. i don't think my bf would ever raise a hand at me or at children; in fact, he's a total gentleman towards women. but he is a little unstable emotionally. it's hard to say if he'd run away, but he's been very committed so far... he's grown up without his parents around and resents them for that. i hope he'd try not to repeat their mistakes.

>>16603309
yep... my mom's probably the worst at this... guilt-tripping me like crazy.

>>16602362
Fucking what? 23 is getting past ripe. This is some new-age sexual liberation shit you're talking about, it isn't biology. 30 is the point of no return, not the time you should shoot for.

People try to put it off as long as possible because they view it as a responsibility that they can avoid. They think that having sex is somehow a personal gain for them and that by having as much sex as possible until the "deadline" they are better people than their peers. Fucking why? You gain nothing from it, it's like saying "I'll stop doing drugs when I'm 30 so I can have kids." The older you are the worse your chances are, and you're going to be FAR too old to raise more than one or two kids all the way to adulthood.

If you feel even slightly obligated to have kids you should be having them no later than 25. Kids bind a marriage together, it gives you a bunch of extra things in common and mutual activities to engage in.

Here's another thing: happy marriages are inversely correlated with sexual partnership. The more people you've had sex with, the worse your marriage will be. 0 or 1 is ideal, 2 is pushing it. Any more than that and you should really be reviewing your life because there is no "WHEN I GET OLDER." You cannot wipe the slate clean and your actions have consequences you don't even seem to understand. You've been brainwashed if you think marriage and having kids is something for "later," it's something you should be thinking about as soon as possible as it will allow you to make your decisions and maintain your relationship from a different perspective, that of a long-term commitment.

Please, OP, do not listen to this poster. Life is not a game and your body is a precious thing, your actions have real consequences and you should seriously consider how you want to live with your choices in the future.

>>16603361
>23 is getting past ripe
Yep, your eggs age with you OP, and they definitely have an expiration date. Something to keep in mind for sure.

>>16603361
your post scares me but it does give a pretty clear answer which is that i'm probably better off not having kids.

>>16603386
You're better off having kids. You're hardwired to be able to appreciate them, it's just part of life. Unless you're planning to replace your boyfriend soon I honestly suggest planning for it.

People talk a lot about leaving something behind in the world, even if it's just memories of you. Having children is the best way to do this, they inherit EVERYTHING you are willing to give them. If you think you're old enough for sex you're old enough to have kids, otherwise you shouldn't be having sex.

>>16603386
Don't let the age thing scare you.

I'd start worrying after 40. 30 is the supposed cut off point, but I've known enough people including my sister who had a healthy kid at 37.

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>>16603429
>I'd start worrying after 40.
Why are you lying about this?

I'm a mother of 3, none of which were planned and I really can't imagine my life without them. They can be assholes and stress me out to the max, but at the end of the day I love them more than I ever could imagine I would have.

>>16603413
yikes, this gives me anxiety like no other. who knows when i'll find my next boyfriend... i might as well stick it out with my current and make the best of a child-free life. i'm not about to rush into marriage with someone i don't feel completely in love with.

>>16603429
i've heard the same with an ex. his parents had a kid around their 40s... i was surprised to know she was perfectly healthy girl, but jesus christ. by my 40s, i don't know if i'd have the energy for a kid.

>>16603442
how does the father deal?

>>16603455
You definitely want to aim for much earlier. Just don't feel like your chances are fucked in your 30s. But, realize the risks.

>>16603455
>how does the father deal?
He deals just fine, we've been together almost 12 years. When I became pregnant with our first he said he didn't want any more than 2 kids. Now he would have a whole football team if I let him. He's a great father and loves our kids.

>>16603459
thanks, definitely something i've considered.
i don't see myself having kids in the next year or two. but early 30s? probably... again, with the right person.

>>16603464
that's fantastic, i'm really happy for you guys. hope i have a marriage that lasts like that some day.

>>16603475
Thanks!

Do not, I repeat, do NOT have children unless you are 100% certain that you want them.

If more people followed this simple guideline, a lot of today's issues wouldn't exist.

I have 2 kids (4 months and 3 years) and I'm 32.
My husband is very supportive.
I could not do this without his support. I am very happy we had kids and I can't wait for them to be older so we can play together like board games and stuff.

But having a newborn is very very hard.

Can your bf get help for his stressing? Some sort of "mindfulness" therapy? (It's a good way to deal with anxiety)

I used to stress a lot but got help and grew up. He could too if he recognises there is a problem and gets the right help

>>16602253

you and i can have kids right now if you want ;)

i've had my sperm frozen in 1992 when my testicles first started to produce them. Just pay shipping and handling

>>16602253
Having kids is a great idea, but they require 2 things

1. Financial stability
2. In a healthy relationship with someone you are married/getting married to

I'd say wait a year or two before you make any serious decisions.

Genetically we are built to procreate (no shit) and the ones that do, are built to produce little ones that do so again. To seriously rule out the possibility of breeding is in effect genetic suicide in many ways. You kill off your prodgeny and theirs, and the line following with one fatal swipe of decision.

To be honest I find that a sad reflection of our world and the only solution I can think of is - If this world has damaged you so badly as to destroy your fundamental human function then have a serious look for what did that terrible thing, and change it!

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>>16604337
>hurr durr we are programmed to reproduce
>Hey guys I shat a new term to look intelligent. Hurr durr "genetic suicide"
>you say literally nothing that makes sense.

YOU son should commit genetic suicide.

23/24 is way too young to even think about having children. You should explore the world, travel, meet other people and broaden your mind with all the excitement life has to offer.
When you are 36+,then it's the time to Start thinking what you want out off life.

In the current economy and the many insecure world problems I personally would never consider having children.

Please bare in mind, I'm a 43 old male with 5 kids, tricked by a narcist when I was 26. For the first 2, then had 3 kids with a borderliner. Horrible situation and the law is all about women and some tears... As you know.

Have fun first. Every kid you have will take 20 yes of your own life at least.

>>16603339
> the last thing i'd want to do is pressure someone into having kids with me. ultimately, i just want to live a happy life with someone, kids or no kids.

If you're able to pressure your significant other into a life changing decision like children you don't belong together in the first place.

My 2 cents on OP's original post; i can almost guarentee you'll change your mind about kids in about 5-7 years. My (now) wife didn't want kids at 23, either did i, now she's 30, i'm 28, and she's baby crazy. It took me a little longer to come around to the idea, but about a year ago i decided i wanted a kid too. She didn't pressure me into it, she told me how she felt, and i flat out told i wasn't sure and would need time to come to a decision on my own.

Now for the real kick in the balls. After raw dogging her on the daily for a year we were still childless. We both went to the doc, and as it turns out i'm damn near sterile. Now i have to decide if i want a kid that isn't biologically mine, or crush my wife. The ride never fucking ends.

Sorry that turned into a rant, shits just tearing me up at the moment.

Best of luck OP!

>>16602347
>>16602297
>>16602347
>long-term relationship
>partner wants to get married
>love them and think they're a great person, but they spazz out too easily
>not sure whether the home environment could handle it
>also contemplating whether kids are a good idea

Are you a female version of me?

Monitoring this thread because I'm in nearly the exact same situation as you, bar that I'm turning 24 in August not January.

Out of curiosity, have you asked them whether they would be willing to live together with you prior to marriage?
I tried asking my girlfriend that, but she's from a slightly orthodox family and she hates the idea of living together outside marriage.

Basically what I'm trying to do is engineer a scenario where we're living together for at least a year with no serious commitments - for as much her own sake as my own.

She hates the idea though, and she considered it a serious threat to our relationship when I suggested we perhaps not buy an entire house on our first attempt at moving out.

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>>16604337
Saying
>we are built to procreate
Is as apt as saying
>we are built to digest doritos
It's a fundamentally true statement, the majority of the human race has evolved the capacity for this behaviour which, under most circumstances, increases your chance of survival (be it individual or genetic).

The problem with that statement is, despite the fact that most human beings have the capacity to digest doritos, some of us just don't fucking like doritos.

We don't care if we're 'programmed' or 'built' to digest them, we don't want to - because we don't like the taste, or we have ethical issues with the company, or we just don't feel like eating some fucking doritos right at that second.

You're trying to impose objective biological statements onto subjective, individualistic preferences, which is a stupid, pseudo-intellectual thing to do.

Please don't do it again.

>>16605687
I guess when ad homonim insults come rolling out a statement has prodded deep into the void where knowldge is filled with special flowers. Try reading a book or two.. 'Sperm wars' is an interesting adventure into human breeding - or find your own path of learning.

>24 F
>always hated kids
>parents keep pressuring me to have kids
>keep getting told I'll change my mind
>I just simply don't like anything related to children or any aspect of having children
>/pol/itician and lots of pressure to propagate the white race

Idk, I just don't like kids. I don't think they're cute, I don't find child-inclusive activities appealing, I never fawn over kids or pregnancy or any of that shit. I don't party or anything either, so don't say that. People say it's normal not to want them at this age, but it's not just that, I don't like them at all. Most women this age, even if they don't want kids, still think they're cute at least and enjoy babysitting or playing with younger family members. I don't and never have, not even a little. Even as a kid I sat with the adults, not the kids.

Are there people who just absolutely do not like children no matter what "biological clock" nonsense comes up?

>>16606093
>biological clock
That is a bullshit reason to hurry things up anyway. You can freeze your eggs if you are in doubt, and even then plenty of women are having healthy children when they're over 40 even without such aid. It's ok to enjoy life without kids now, and should you ever change your mind, medicine is on your side. There's absolutely no reason to worry about this now.

>>16606102
>>16606102
provided you've got the coin, shit ain't cheap, $16-36k freedom dollars.