>>16594692
cont
>I wouldnt have this problem if I girls thought I was attractive
>Im not cool like you
>Im too short
Like holy shit. He just broke down infront of me one day. I couldnt even try to cheer him up or help him because hed just rant on about how during the emotion sponge period women all talk about how my friends and I are attractive and ignore him.
And holy shit dont let him actually like a girl. Literally everything goes wrong for him Im really tired of listening to how shitty he ends up getting treated.
How do I help this guy. I keep telling him to stop being a faggot that no one actually likes nice guys. Theyre just to use and abuse but he really wants to believe people are good deep down. Then he goes on about how even Im a douche to him but always have his best interest in mind so he hopes others are like that. I literally cant save him from a life of misery and being an emotional sponge.

You can't help him if you think deep down people are not good. That no one likes being treated nicely. If you could help him while believing that, why would you? Unless you imagine you're both separate from the rest of the world. If people only do things for their own benefit, you should stop trying to help him too. You'd prove yourself right and not have to deal with him anymore.
Do you want to help him for your own gain just so you don't need to deal with him? Or do you actually care at all about helping someone?

>>16594697
>>16594692
Might as well go into what happens with women he likes a bit.

Usually its coming across to him that the girls he like and just girls in general hang out with him to get to the rest of the group since hes the most approachable. And I cant even deny that because its partly true. But man when its a girl you like its pretty rough. He doesnt even like bringing the girls he likes around us which complicates things even more for him since we cant even try to be a bro and help him out.
He ask girls (and guys but this is about girls he likes right now) to hang out with him (just him) and spend so quality to time him and he usually just gets blown off unless the girl needs him or wants to hang out with someone else in the circle. When they do its usually him being an emotional sponge, doormat, etc and it literally hurts me to watch such faggotry. But its how he believes people should be treated. I assume this is a girl thing because guys dont really try to abuse him the same way and when they do it by doing something really douche and the rest of the group tells the guy to fuck off. But we cant do that to a girl he likes. Basically he gets used and dump by girls a lot. Any time they start talking about relationships hes subtly let down but in ways that crush his confidence.
>I like taller guys
>I like buff guys
>I think the guy is so hot
Hell he even was just going to confess to this one girl and when he did she basically cut off all connection to him and some other brutal things (she still comes around the group but avoids him like the plague)
It gets better, other girls do this to him as well and when I asked 1 about it she gave me some sob story about how she was afraid he liked her because it would alienate her from the rest of us. Best part is apparently he was around the corner and heard this.

Really Ive been just trying to tell him to stop being a faggot and that he shouldnt be nice to people, especially women but they are quick to abuse.

>>16594756
>all this projecting
This guy is like a little brother to me. What would you do. Watch your little brother suffer.

Have you and your bros tried sitting him down and talk to him about his issue?

>>16594788
>>I wouldnt have this problem if I girls thought I was attractive
>Im not cool like you
>Im too short
Dont forget the part about where girls tell him they find the rest of us attractive. Were not assholes but we literally do nothing for them whereas he gives his all to pretty much everyone so it crushes him and he doesnt believe he can do what we do.

Robot here.

Only way for guys like that to learn... is the hard way.

How he reacts after that is unpredictable...
He could be an alpha douche (or at least attempt it), or if that's not for him, he'll probably just give up.

Keep being nice to keep up appearances only, other than that, he'd mind his own business and embrace the time he gets alone. He'd eventually not want a relationship or sex, it would seem alien to him. He wouldn't be as nice - not going out of his way or anything, but he'd still hold doors open for others.

But generally, he'll want to be alone.

Either way though, it's better than what he is now.

>>16594778
Miss the forest for the trees. I was asking you questions. He thinks deep down everyone is good. Do you? And if you don't, do you think telling him to stop trying to find good people is going to help him?
I'm not sure I understand your conflict entirely or what you personally believe. And I think that would help.

>>16594816
Well first of all, he seems to have self esteem issues and doesn't think much of himself so he puts others before his own self interest. He's going to have to come to the realization himself and actually want help. If he's into reading I'd get him 3% Man by Corey Wayne. It's a great self help book that I think will bring your friend around.

He needs to learn to ask for dates first and friends later.
Many women like nice guys, but they like nice guys who have a spine, not doormats.
This is dating 101, you make your intentions clear from the go instead of being a fucking weasel.

>>16594852
Theres so much more to how he approaches girls its just I got tired of hitting the word count so I didnt elaborate.The subtle let downs he gets like
>>I like taller guys
>I like buff guys
>I think the guy is so hot
Are from when he tried the more direct approach to women. Secondly dont project and call the guy a weasel. He genuinely just wants 'friends.' The kind who dont use and abuse people. I believe people are shit and that these people are rare to come by, but then he thinks that he can find more people who treat him like I do.
>>16594834
I give advice like stop being a faggot. I inform him ahead of time that he literally shouldnt expect a woman to not be a manipulative cunt until proven otherwise. Its how I operate. I dont let anyone use me as an emotional sponge until they really prove to be worth it. But hes a faggot and thinks when people need a shoulder he should be there for them.
Scenarios like once some chick tried to confide in me about how she had sex with some guy on tinder and some other bullshit about her feelings while setting on my lap and I told her to fuck off. Then she goes to "Carl" and confides in him. Now Carl likes her somewhat. As in he knows she'll never like him and I wouldnt be surprised if she threw out rejection hint to her. But later she comes on to me being flirty and seductive, kissing my neck and shit because she thinks Im mad and needs to make it up. Of course in front of Carl.
I can only help him with what Ive confirmed from my own experiences like this but he tries to hang tough.
>>16594847
Yes he does. Its because he pursues people the most and gets rejected all the fucking time while he sees the rest of us not do shit and people lap up to us. He doesnt want to convert to the way we do things but hes hurt that he gets treated like shit when he does more for them then the others. Itd be one thing if they treated everyone like shit but its kinda just him.

>>16594905
>Secondly dont project and call the guy a weasel. He genuinely just wants 'friends.'
Yet he complain about people not reciprocating his good actions. True altruism expects nothing back (and is mostly a foolish endeavor), he does things expecting a return which he is not getting.
If people "hurt him" then he needs to better pick who to be friends with.
If woman turn him down being direct he needs to keep trying, it's a numbers game.

>>16594960
>Yet he complain about people not reciprocating his good actions.
He expects people to not treat him like shit. Or pretend hes invisible. Its pretty basic to expect people you consider your friends or at least want to be friends with not to treat you like shit.
>True altruism expects nothing back
Sure, when a parent raises their child and is upset that their child is an ungrateful piece of shit the parent is a bad person. Having expectations of people isnt inherently wrong.

>>16594976
>Its pretty basic to expect people you consider your friends or at least want to be friends with not to treat you like shit.
That's his fault for picking shitty "friends". As you describe the situations, they are complete strangers.

You friend keeps a philosophy that harms him. Maybe he should stop having that retarded philosophy.

I'm not sure what your parent analogy means, it can be read both ways. But no, as a basis if you have expectations of people that you barely, any expectation at all even basic decency, know you're an idiot.

>>16594998
>But no, as a basis if you have expectations of people that you barely, any expectation at all even basic decency, know you're an idiot.
Yes, thats in the op.
>He feel for the nice guy meme where you treat people like they arent pieces of shit
These people arent complete strangers. Its a college campus and so theres an incredible amount of interaction between a large number of people. The whole point of the OP was how I get him to understand that people are pieces of shit and not the good people he thinks they are.

>>16594998
also,
>I'm not sure what your parent analogy means, it can be read both ways
A parent child relationship is the closest thing you can get to altruism. A relationship where you only give and expect to receive nothing.
But expecting to receive nothing and accepting receiving shit are completely different and no one should have to tolerate that. You clearly have an underdeveloped idea of altruism

>>16595014
>The whole point of the OP was how I get him to understand that people are pieces of shit and not the good people he thinks they are.
Teach him how to browse 4chan, top kek

>>16594697
its tough, almost all people at a certain age aren't serious about relationships and most of them are immature. my sister told me to start being meaner to women. if i did, i wouldn't have met the most amazing person of my life. don't be my sister.

get him to understand it takes everyone meeting dozens of shitty people before they find someone compatible. gee, she treated you like a doormat? well she's an immature bitch, fuck her and look out for those cues next time. gee, 5 other people did too? that happens to a ton of fucking people, nearly everyone. you have to understand most people suck. it takes over 99% of people a lot of pain and suffering before they find the right one. don't let your emotions get stomped on the ground by someone who is equivalent to the shit beneath your feet

you seem to think the problem is that he's nice - it's not. It's that he's ugly/short/lacks social capital. Chicks like nice guys (not the beta neckbeard meme nice guy) as long as they have other shit going for them. People look at alpha douches and think "oh you have to be a dick to get chicks" no - the alpha douches have other shit going for them that attracts women - confidence, looks, friends, interesting lives, such that they can put up with being treated like shit. His problem isn't that he holds doors or listens to problems. His problem is he's a non-sexual entity in other respects. Being "nice" isn't a turnoff like I'm reading in this thread. It's just not enough of a turn-on to make up for his shortcomings.

>>16595044
If it were only girls he liked who did this it would be easier. But it happens to him all the time and hes the type of person who believes you shouldnt ignore someone asking for your help. Like I said he fell for a bunch of nice guy memes and now hes a faggot.
>ell she's an immature bitch, fuck her and look out for those cues next time
He could never do this because it goes against his belief of how people should be treated. Best you could get is that he shuts down after she betrays him.
Again like I said he treats everyone this way. Its just a lot easier to protect him from guys and impossible to protect him from girls he likes.

>>16595057
This has been blatantly false in both his and my experience. Hell Ive even stolen girls from guys who act like this. Women are attention whores and want an emotional sponge. Theyre are never attracted to their emotional sponge. Which is why I can tell a girl to fuck off when she tries to confide in me, but after she listens to him she'll come back trying to sucking my cock.
>His problem isn't that he holds doors or listens to problems. His problem is he's a non-sexual entity in other respects
I will genuinely assert my belief that doing this makes you a non-sexual entity.

I was once like your friend OP (maybe I still am a bit). The breaking point for me wasn't how many women shot me down or how many assholes I ran in to while trying to encourage kindness in my community, it was when I really tried my best to be the best I could be and therefore an attractive man with a rich life (exercising, doing things I found fun, sleeping enough, eating, excelling in my volunteer work and course work). That still wasn't enough. If you friend gets to the same point, he will reach a crossroads like a previous anon mentioned. The third path leads to suicide. I passed that fork in the road too. I tried suicide and couldn't follow all the way through, and learned I definitely don't want to die. No matter whether you become the alpha douche, or just withdraw, either way a huge chunk of your humanity and empathy dies. For now I am the recluse and have definitely become chauvanistic. I'm an all around bastard to women by my old standards and treat them like children and they still talk to me for whatever reason. I perform nice actions still but they're either out of habit or to keep up appearances / follow social norms. I never think "I should give this person a hand, they look like they could use it!" anymore, if my help is pre-meditated it only comes about from "If I give this person a hand will I get anything out of it?". The answer is almost always "no". My stance on relationships now is that I don't care if a woman is interested in a relationship with me or not - I'm not interested in casual sex as I find loose women to be a turn off and I'm too apathetic to put in any effort in building a romantic relationship. It doesn't seem like the reward (ie. the relationship and all things that come with that, including fickle affections and sex) is worth any effort.

>>16595119
TL;DR: Your friend will likely figure it all out himself eventually and snap out of it, but when he does you should be there to talk him out of killing himself and in to either being more selfish and asshole-ish like everyone else or just saying "fuck this" and living his life doing whatever the hell he feels like. He will learn a lot about himself and if he doesn't kill himself he will definitely not be the same person that you are currently friends with, but it's impossible to tell how much he will change. If you want to speed things up push him to do his absolute best and show him how still nothing changes.

>>16595039
4chan is too gay for him. Honestly after not browsing here and coming back Im completely shocked at how desensitized I am to how much of a faggot people here are. When I first found this board I was scared off to /sci/ and then slowly moved around after a few years had passed.
>>16595119
He thinks hes going to die alone.

>>16595092
>in both his and my experience [all people are shit]
>Its a college campus

lmao kid college campuses are home to the most degenerate people on the planet, of course you keep meeting whores and clueless jackoffs

you're just as clueless as your friend, he just happens to have morals and you want to make him into a degenerate enabler like yourself

>>16595163
So hes not allowed to be happy?
Also Im 24 and hes 21 so were not exactly kids. Yes there are in fact people who dont immediately go to college. I have a cs job and similar experiences about and bout from my job to parties and picking up chicks after being out to dinner completely unrelated to college but thats not really going to him help.

>>16595152
Chances are he probably will die alone. Even if he found a "nice" woman and they got hitched she could divorce his ass any time and take half his stuff. Then he would die both alone and poor. Anyways, my point is you have to break your friend, because his worldview isn't reflective of reality and if he's anything like I was he will be damn stubborn about his ideals. The only way to rebuild someone's view of reality is to break them down first.

>>16595184

who said anything about his happiness? You just want him to be like you, because you think that will make him happy

how about helping him find a woman who isn't a cunt, should be ezpz for someone as experience and worldwise as you

>>16595198
Again, if you bothered reading the OP, its not just about women. He gets treated like shit in general. Guys and girls. If it were just women he liked it would be easier.

I'm assuming he's white. Find him a black chick.

Guaranteed it'll work. Worked for me.

>>16595234

And if you bothered looking out for him, you'd realize that trying to change him to suit your nihilistic view of humanity just benefits your bleeding heart. Tell him to stop wasting his time with trash, help him find people who give a shit about him (is this not you?), and hook him with a decent girl. Instead of trying to make him into a copy of you and your drone friends

>>16594905
>treat someone like shit until they prove they aren't shit, then hope they accept you were waiting for them to prove they are good and not just treating them like shit because you're shit

That's why it doesn't help him. Same way it doesn't help people to tell them there is a God who loves them so much that he gives all of them free choice, and evil exists because it's our fault that when God made everything we didn't listen to him. We should have known to listen to him before he created knowledge for us.

You can't change how someone feels or what they believe. You can try to, but it generally just pushes them away. He gets manipulated by people's feelings, because he thinks something feeling wrong means it is wrong and needs to be fixed. You push away the fact that other people can have their own feelings, or they're just mislead by them, but internalize that your feelings are the right ones.

I can believe whatever I want about how you act, the same way you can believe anything you want about how someone else acts. But only you can answer what you believe about yourself. You should be able to accept though that how you act could be interpreted as not caring.

>>16595254
>Tell him to stop wasting his time with trash,
Its like you dont read. He doesnt believe people are trash. I keep trying to inform him the people are pieces of shit but he believes that everyone is a good person. Which is why hes breaking down because his belief is wrong.

>>16595092
>I stole women from other men
>Why are women so terrible?

>>16595271

Except you're wrong too about believing that everyone is a piece of shit

I can't really expect you to help him since it's gonna be the blind leading the blind, you literally lack the discernment to know who is decent and who isn't

improve yourself before you pretend to play hero with people you deem beneath you

>>16595269
>You push away the fact that other people can have their own feelings, or they're just mislead by them, but internalize that your feelings are the right ones.
People act like shit because they are concerned with their own feelings instead of others. When a girl who knows you like her uses you as an emotional sponge shes being a manipulative bitch. Shes knows the rest of us wouldnt tolerate that shit.

You the same dude from earlier?

I'm a nice person, who happens to be a guy, but without being a Nice Guy™.

I open doors for people, I help carry peoples groceries, I help people across the street, I nod, smile and give a good day, if our eyes meet, and I'm pretty generous towards those I feel are in need. Literally every girls I've ever dated has at one point called me some variation of sweet or nice.

But I have a spine, and have absolutely no problems telling people to fuck off or, to stand up for what I believe in, or to stand up for others (Up to a certain point, I'm infinitely patient and understanding, but if you cross a line and egregiously disrespect me or a friend, absolutely zero tolerance, mercy, or wiggle room. People tend to step the fuck off the second they actually see me legit mad or even annoyed,).

I don't skate by on the fact that I'm a nice guy, and hope that other people treat me the same.

I am the way I am, and I am that way purely for my own selfishly quasi-altruistic reasons. I like the way helping other peoples feels to me. That is my sole motivation for doing "nice" things. I don't do it to be validated by other-- sure it feels nice, but ultimately I don't give a fuck about what others think, because I'm doing it to validate myself in my own mind and live up to the standards and ideologies I personally strive to attain.

And I also couldn't give less of a fuck if you don't have the same ideals, because you are you, and I am me, and we all live different paths. All I can do is work to be the best of who I am, the same way you stick to who you are.

People tend to see all that in me in the way I carry myself, and because of that, I've never had a problem being walked over, or had issues with women.

It sounds like your friend is missing the balancing force that makes him a complete and interesting person.

Yin does not exist with out yang. He cannot just be the light, without a shadow. That is one dimensional, boring as fuck, and a lie.

>>16595254
not OP but decent women are 1 in a million. Seeing as dating is "just a numbers game" this means that it is very unlikely that anyone will reciprocate his feelings.

>>16595275
Its not like I pressured or went behind someones back. Or even helped cheated. Just stole by proving Im not a nice guy.
>>16595283
hoho this judgment. I can tell people of character easily. And people by far are usually lacking it. Finding someone of character is a exception to the rule. No need to improve myself. My life is pretty good other than watching my friend be treated like shit.

>>16595298

so much irony in this post lmao

you're such a terrible friend and you probably vastly overestimate how important you are to this guy

I hope he gets away from you before you "innocently steal" his first gf

>>16595294
Literally telling him success stories about things that never really happen is one of the worst things you can do to a person. Its like motivating a person to give up everything to try and join the nba or drop out of college to start a business because it worked for you. Its terrible advice.
Also technically speaking hed be more interesting than most people since he reaches out so much he picks up a lot of hobbies and is in a lot of school clubs and shit. If he were just a dull faggot even I wouldnt waste my time helping him.

>>16595307
>I hope he gets away from you before you "innocently steal" his first gf
>you're such a terrible friend and you probably vastly overestimate how important you are to this guy
lmao. Dudes like a brother to me. I dont need you validation of our relationship. Go be jealous somewhere else.

>>16595316

spoken like a true user. You just can't let him escape your clutches, can you? Have to control everything he does. Hope you remember that brotherly love when it counts

>>16595325
>You just can't let him escape your clutches
Holy shit stop the faggotry lol. I just dont want him to end up like you. Its what friends are for. Making sure you dont turn out a faggot.

>>16595332

then your friends failed you bro

and you're about to do the same thing to this guy

>>16595342
lol youre so bitter. Id take being a faggot whos happy in life over ending up like you. Just some jealous faggot online.

>>16595332
>Making sure you dont turn out a faggot
What exactly does that mean to you?

>>16595313

Maybe he has a lot of interesting hobbies, but how's he choose to display himself?

In one dimension. Nice.

Maybe you can skate by with that when you're making friends, but that's boring as fuck when you're looking for a potential love interest.

I don't date one dimensional nice girls or bad girls because i just get bored out of my mind. Diverse, and well-rounded is always better because it always keeps things interesting, and can always keep you guessing and on your toes.

In the dating world, you need a certain edge to attract interest and make things exciting, and in the relationship world you need a certain sturdy, softness to keep it and provide comfort and stability.

He's trying to rely purely off being soft, and ignoring the crucial edge that grabs people's attention attraction in the first place. Even if he did, this shit all tends to be cyclical (rotating continuously between edgy excitement and soft comfort), so he'd never be able to keep a girl for long; especially at an age where all cycles tend to be more edge driven (as you get older, the softer moments tend to reign, so maybe he'd have better luck then, but it's still a cycle).

>>16595346

lmao, some part of you knows that you're full of shit, that's why you made this thread

Something in your friend reminds you of something you've given up on a long time ago

And you want to quash that, you want to make him like you, because that frightens you

You'd rather destroy something beautiful then do something difficult

>>16595366
Completely broken self confidence. Rejection of other people completely because youve been betrayed too much. Giving up women because you cant get a girl. Bitter /r9k/fag. Having a possible chance at happiness. Just the general definition.

>>16595375
>You'd rather destroy something beautiful then do something difficult
Oh I dont have to do that. Hes on a crash course.
Im not the type to watch someone someone Ive taken in be treated like shit. You might find it beautiful that hes being treated like shit for being nice but as his bro, I gotta make sure he can stand on his own feet without me.

>>16595385

His niceness is the beautiful thing, though you're blind to it

If you actually cared you would elevate him for his niceness, you would shame those who treated him poorly and reform them (you and your friends have this power, since as you say, these girls just seem to love you), you would help him instead of changing him

But instead you're a hedonistic backstabber and you're perfectly fine fucking him over and pretending like it's his fault

you're not his bro
he can stand on his own two feet without you, mr. hero
you're perfectly fine encouraging the toxic status quo because you're too much of a pussy to change it
so much of a pussy that you have to come on /adv/ to brag about what a great friend you are

>>16595367
One dimensional people cant keep friends. Dudes traveled around a lot and has a shit ton of unbelievable stories. Which of course girls listen to and are impressed with while sitting in some other guys lap.

>>16595396
>But instead you're a hedonistic backstabber and you're perfectly fine fucking him over and pretending like it's his fault
Holy shit this projection is actually making me laugh out loud. And if you read anything youd know that the only reason why I keep mentioning girls he likes is because
>Again like I said he treats everyone this way. Its just a lot easier to protect him from guys and impossible to protect him from girls he likes.
>he can stand up on his own
He goes for walks and I pretend not to notice that his eyes look like hes been crying.

>>16595397
OP, what do you hope to gain by arguing with these masochistic idealists?

>>16595407

lmao the denial is so strong with you. Despite what you said in the OP this guy is just a pet to you. What's stopping you from telling a girl to get out of your lap? What's stopping you from telling a girl he likes, hey, sit on my faggot friend's lap? Give him a hand instead of "looking into his eyes to see if he's been crying", how useless can you be?

>>16595415
Im not even sure anymore to be honest. Only reason I think I even stayed in this thread is because I could express how I felt about his situation a bit while not crushing his feelings or having to worry about rumors spreading about him. Probably why I havent minded having to repeat the same things over and over and I gave up getting advice for him a while ago here.

>>16595420
> this guy is just a pet to you.
Maybe your siblings are pets to you. Dont project on me though
>What's stopping you from telling a girl to get out of your lap
Im not a faggot.
>What's stopping you from telling a girl he likes, hey, sit on my faggot friend's lap
Because if she rejects on the spot as its happened when Ive hinted at this, its the most devastating thing to his confidence.
>Give him a hand
You mean listen to his rants like I do

>>16595433

Ahh, so you're a thirsty beta and you keep this guy around for validation of your superiority complex

Man, I hope one day he wises up to your bullshit. You should show him this thread so he can see what you really think about him, you pussy

>>16595438
lol do you think theres something here that I havent told him
>Ahh, so you're a thirsty beta and you keep this guy around for validation of your superiority complex
Youre so bitter its cracking me up. Its not insulting if you statement doesnt logically follow.

>>16595447

Of course I think there's things you haven't told him, do you really think you come across as an honest person? You lie to this guy and are content watching him suffer when it's entirely within your power to help him get the girl, but you're too much of a "faggot" to lift a finger. Your solution is to brag on /adv/ and then employ the same ineffective strategy you've been using all along, once you've been validated by masochists like >>16595415

>>16595433
>>Give him a hand
>You mean listen to his rants like I do
Only if you can also say the /adv/ here helped by listening to you and telling you you're wrong.
Because that's what you're trying to do for him too

>>16595465
>You lie to this guy and are content watching him suffer when it's entirely within your power to help him get the girl, but you're too much of a "faggot" to lift a finger.
Tell me. What comment have I made that I would even be ashamed of showing him. Im not a faggot like you anon who hides things.
Can you elaborate exactly where I have lied. This projection is actually getting pretty juicy. Im learning more about you.

>>16595480
No I see most of 4chan as faggots and wouldnt trust anything. But its nice to be able to bounce ideas off of people anonymously and sometimes someone comes up with something useless, but in a way to where it changes my perspective and I can make something of it.

>>16594692
Sit him down and explain the full 9 yards of how to be a guy. Males stuck with this woman acceptance insecurity need this, otherwise they'll never make it out.

>>16595482

lmao, you can't show him what you wrote about him, can you? Because then he would know what you really think about him.

All this time you've pretended to be his friend, but you can't let him find out about how you lie, about how you make fun of him behind his back. How you've been a "faggot" all along who hides things from him.

I've wondered from the start if you really are a sociopath in disguise; tell me, do you feel excited thinking you've discerned something about my character? "Learning" about me? Because we're certainly learning a lot about you, and what a terrible friend you are.

>>16595518
Oh man oh man oh man. Part of me wants to save this stuff in a clipboard. The projection is so real. Unfortunately this comment is too far removed from anything so I cant even reply directly to it.

>>16595534

Every post you call "projection" only confirms the truth of what I'm saying and the depth of your denial. You can check out of the conversation whenever you like. But please, for god's sake, if you really care about your friend, help him realize the potential of his goodness. Don't destroy it and make him a degenerate like you.

>>16595505
Heres the general conversation between us. The girl example is more intriguing than the guy example so Ill use that but please remember its not just about a gf
>X did this and I feel Y
>ur a faget
>Nice guys finish last.
>Shes not worth it
>I dont understand why you think people arent pieces of shit
>See I cant be like you guys. I think people deep down...
>No people are pieces of shit and youll be happier if you accept it
>You only say that because girls think youre attractive and [insert every insecurity he has]
>Try doing XYZ and girls will surely notice
>X wont work on this girl, Y goes against how I treat people, and Z only works because girls find you attractive
>FUCKING DO XYZ
>I did XYZ and it didnt work
>Did you really
>Yeah but I replaced Y with some nice guy bullshit
>You have to do Y because people are shit
>I dont believe that

>>16594692
Sounds like he doesn't like himself very much. I find most doormat guys feel they need to do something (e.g. "be nice") in order to deserve friendship, love, whatever. Tell him he needs to get a grip and make himself into a person HE likes. If he doesn't like himself, no one else is going to. And that sets him up to be used/manipulated.

He needs to get through his head that you don't control how other people treat you. You can try your best, but at the end of the day if they're an asshole to you, you drop them out of your life.

>>16594768
How many girls does this guy fall for? If he's constantly asking out (or asking to "hang out with") one girl after another, no girl is going to take his affection seriously. And he's just setting himself up for rejection.

Also, how hard is it for a girl to shake him off? If girls feel the need to crush him a bit to get him to stop asking them out, then he needs to learn how to take no for an answer. In my opinion, if a girl needs to tell a guy "oh, you're not buff enough for me" or "not tall enough for me" or "I'm a lesbian" then she's already rejected him more politely and he didn't get it. There's always the chance he's just attracted to bitches, but it's more likely he's just going about this all wrong.

As for a suggestion, guys like this tend to do better in the dating scene when they have a girl friend who can set him up on dates with other girls. He might want to befriend some girls and have them help him out.

>>16595541
Im sorry. How would you like for me to respond to you baseless assertions. Im laughing too hard at you to figure out what you want.

>>16595567

I can't make you see what's already inside of you. I know it brings you pleasure to imagine those who challenge you as effete and bitter, but I know that you laugh because it's hard for you to accept that maybe some part of you is still good. That your dialogues with your friend >>16595559 are your attempt to convince yourself of your own worldview, and that you crave your friend's acquiescence because in your mind that would confirm that you are right. When you're not.

>>16595482
>Can you elaborate exactly where I have lied
That's sort of funny OP. You don't trust any of us, yet sit on your high horse about how you're telling us the truth and we don't know you.

You want to be able to control his gut reaction to people. I think you feel like it would be doing something good. But that's thinking you can control how someone reacts to their world view being shattered. If you're someone he believes is good, and you convince him that people are bad and not to trust them, can you 100% claim he wouldn't kill himself? Because that's what you can do by breaking someone down. You don't know their true feelings, you just know how you perceive and reflect them based on your own. Something that helped you might not help someone else.

>>16595563
Its our senior year in college. So its over the span of 4 years.
And she doesnt say, "not tall enough for me"
She says she likes guys [6'1 and up] than him out of the context of their relationship. Saying that to someone under 6'1 is a clear rejection without ever addressing them. Its a really subtle way of stopping someone fast if you think they might have feelings for you. But its crushing to their confidence.
>There's always the chance he's just attracted to bitches
We had to beat it out of him to stop falling in love with really attractive women because theyre whores. It doesnt help that attractive women hang out in the circle.
>He needs to get through his head that you don't control how other people treat you
This goes back to the original point. If you only ever treat people kindly, and are constantly treated like shit and like youre invisible, any person thinking rationally would assume theyre doing something wrong especially when other people making no effort are having more success than you.
>Sounds like he doesn't like himself very much.
Probably because women keep mentioning how they like taller more muscular attractive guys than him. Sounds pretty devastating to me.
But he does what he can. Our freshman year he was so motivated that he dropped like 30lbs or so and went to the gym with me and got someone fit. You cant get ripped in a year but you can stop looking like a fatass and someone who works out which he did and hes had more success since. But its like >>16595119. When you try your best and start getting rid of your excuses and still get rejected it only gets worse.

>>16595605
>s a really subtle way of stopping someone fast if you think they might have feelings for you. But its crushing to their confidence.
There is no way to gracefully reject someone. You will always hurt them on some level. I've never understood people who have specific requirements ("he must be 6'1"+" or "she must be 32D+"), but if she really is using it to stop his advances, she probably thinks it's the least hurtful way. Otherwise, she probably wouldn't put any thought into it and just ignore him.

On the other hand, if your sensitive friend is just going for hot bimbos, getting rejected, and not understanding why, idk how you can help him. He needs to help himself and start using his brain.

Idk what you tell you man.

>>16595559
Your advice seems in the right idea. But you're not saying it correctly. however he seems unwilling to listen. "People are shit" isn't really what he needs to hear.

Tell him it's like this: Everyone is inherently selfish. Some people, like him, will adhere to a code. They believe that putting others before themselves is the correct way people should be. That it's a great quality to have, and people in the long run respect this quality.

This is where his assumption fails. What happens in reality, is that people take advantage of it. People see him as weak. It's incorrect, of course. People like you, respect and appreciate him for it. But other people, especially girls, don't. They don't find it attractive.

People are not shit. They are shallow and selfish. They want the best they can get. The most attractive men. The rich men. Acting nice, listening to girls in the hope of forming a connection. Every man wants that. But most men, unlike him, realize that most women are complete bitches that will stomp all over them if it means getting what they want. Sure, men are like that as well. But only the rich and hot men can get away with that shit.

This is where he needs to start changing. Stop putting other people first. Put himself first. Tell girls to put up or shut up (fuck off), instead of listening to them. Be a bit more aggressive and demanding, even if it comes off as him being a bit more of a dick.

No girl is attracted to a gentleman. What feels right for him, isn't working. He needs to try some wrong, or adjust his viewpoint enough to realize he's never going to be successful with his old one.

>>16595563
>guys like this tend to do better in the dating scene when they have a girl friend who can set him up on dates with other girls
Theres is a girl that he has a completely platonic relationship with. I believe that if he did like her it would be because hes desperate. It works only so far in that he can hang out with her friends when shes there. But everything else doesnt go too well. She feeds him bullshit about how being nice is the way to go. Funny thing is that this girl hated me when we first met and thought I was the biggest asshole. But now she takes a seat in my lap whenever she can and treats me like her best friend far more than him when Im pretty sure I only met her because of him.
Furthermore this is getting pretty off track but shes broken down and confided in me about how she likes chad when chad used her but knows that she should "settle" for the nice guy who likes her but doesnt want to.
My views get confirmed so often its funny.

>>16594692
>>16594697
Tell Mr. Nice Guy that sometimes people need a kick in the rear. You can't be nice all the time, or else people won't change. Sometimes that change is for themselves (like your friend) and sometimes that change is to make them leave you alone, or you need to make it clear you want them to do something, or you have to really let a girl know you like her. Being assertive doesn't mean you're a monster, but it does mean you won't be walked over like a doormat. Tell tovarish this, and present it so that dropping his nice guy act is actually the nice thing to do, if that makes sense.

>>16595633
>she probably thinks it's the least hurtful way
I know they think that. But Id rather them just say they dont like him. Giving false specifics about things he cant change is soul crushing and fuels insecurities.
>if your sensitive friend is just going for hot bimbos
No it was kinda like on of those things were some hot girl would do something nice for him and hed fall in love. Dont worry though, weve thoroughly beat it out of him and he felt bad because he started getting a rep (in the circle) for only going for 9/10's. Thing is, I find his taste in women questionable. A lot of them and I are really at odds which make sit harder to help. Theyre like the really annoying 6 or 7/10 type who make up for it by being loud. They find me to be an asshole and I find them to be really bitchy. Thing is, nice guys like him are fodder to these types and they are really mean to him in the end.
Which of course makes it 10x harder for me to talk to him about it because I hated the girl to begin with.

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>>16595605
Your buddy needs to just man the fuck up, simple as that. Tell him to stop being so god damn sensitive and persistent.

If I had your friends issue (and I did briefly in HS), I would honestly prefer if you just told me to grow a pair. Rejection is a part of life, not everything goes your way, he needs to learn to move on and accept things for what they are. Easier said than done yes, but explaining to him this will be the first step.

I think you're hearts in the right place OP, plenty of people here are sensitive fucks who think what you're doing is abysmal, but in all honesty he just needs to start being a fucking man, unless you want your buddy to keep up this endless cycle and possibly even slip into depression.

Didn't read the thread because dear fuck it's 2AM and I need to get up in three hours. But I wanted to say something. Not sure how to help you. But I used to be that nice guy. I've only ever loved one girl, and I've loved her for about 7 years now. She got married a few years ago. I'm retarded, yes, but this is what broke me.

I hate to say it, but I know the only way I was able to stop being a pushover was to become completely and irreparably decimated emotionally. Now I've regrown with a callous heart, and I can now see the pure hatred and filth that humanity sometimes embodies. I don't mean to be le edgy xD but seriously, sometimes people need to be broken in order to grow and understand what the world truly is.

I used to believe there was good in everyone. Now I know there is evil in everyone. Maybe you should just let things happen to this person, maybe that's what it will take to help him see the true evil in humanity.

>>16595648
Eh, this is sounding more and more like he just enjoys surrounding himself with shitty people (no offense OP). Until he gets some self respect, there's nothing you can do for him.

>>16595644
This is fairly close to what Ive been saying to him so Ill throw it in when convenient.
>Stop putting other people first. Put himself first. Tell girls to put up or shut up (fuck off), instead of listening to them.
This is such a big difference between me and him that I wish he would listen to what I say about it. Whenever girls try to emotional sponge me, especially girls that I like or have had some weird relational standoff with (bullshit games about whether or not to start dating). As soon as she chosen another guy over me and tries to friendzone me I shut her out. I refuse to be in that zone women try to put you in. They dont want you to be their friend, they want you to be their beta orbiter. Worst part is that refusing this role has actually giving me the most success. While "Carl" will try to remain as close to possible and "be there for her" I reject her attempts to confide in me. I dont tell her to fuck off but I treat her like a distant friend. Not speaking to her unnecessarily, not seeking her attention ever. Ditching her for my friends to play videogames and stuff. Turns out the women only then decide that theyd rather be with me then with chad when they cant have the perks of my relationship anymore. Its such a prime example of how fickle women are but I dont know how to get him to understand it. He caves as soon as she ask for him.
>>16595666
Not saying youre wrong but hes gotten shot down pretty brutally from being assertive before. Youd be surprised how mean and manipulative woman can be.

>>16595748

>enjoys
I doubt he does so willingly

>surrounding himself with shitty people (no offense OP)
No I think OP should be included in that list

>>16595748
Its a woman, what did you expect. Shes a pretty nonjudgmental and honest person though. Which is what I like about her platonically speaking.

>>16595699
Sounds like he was in a better place going after the nice hot girls than the bratty mediocre girls. He needs someone who won't take advantage of him.

>>16595740
This is so sad.

>>16595771
Sad pathetic or sad depressing? Because I'd agree with both.

>>16595740
Obvious bait.

>>16595737
>I would honestly prefer if you just told me to grow a pair.
This is why I keep calling him a faggot to his face but he just thinks its because our views are different.

>>16595786

good

hope he stays strong and resists your influence

>>16595784
Not at all. Why do you think that?

>>16595786
That's not what I mean, insulting him will get you no where and it's just going to frustrate him more.

You need to get real with him, have a man to man conversation, maybe one on one maybe a group intervention. He needs to know that you're not just giving him shit you're actually trying to help him get better at these social issues.

>>16595799

OP's too selfish to do that, he'd rather bully him and pretend like he's a great friend doing him a favor

>>16595769
>Its a woman, what did you expect.
You're talking to a woman. Stop being so narrow minded, or you'll never recognize the people who aren't shitty.

>>16595799
>>16595786
Tell him being genuinely nice is what he should do, not putting women on a pedestal for his own gain but just being a good person that treats women like human beings and not goddesses.

This thread is full of garbage. OP is either a full on idiot or troll, but I'm not going to post in this long thread full of /r9k/.

>>16595806
Shitty until proven to be not shitty is my motto. Furthermore you kinda insulted one of my friends. Dont expect me to really sympathize with you.

>>16595807
Its like you didnt read the OP. This isnt just about women. But women are the most abusive and mean to him.

>>16595828

"insulted" by agreeing with you

lol

>>16595833
Ive never said she was shitty. Just confirmed my beliefs about women. But I can see how you could assume I felt that way.

>>16595858

I don't think you've faced enough adversity in your life to be honest

I mean, the terrible depredations of women in a college campus setting and at parties are the height of conflict for you? what makes you think all people are evil? fucking lol

>>16595869
Uh no. I spent 3 years before college on my own and got a prime example of how shitty people. Especially when you need them and how fast they are to abuse you when youre weak. Women of course are the best at getting you to drop you guard which is why I dont really trust them. Ive always thought women were cruel and manipulative and so far Im rarely wrong.
But backgrounds arent really relevant. This guy spent a far portion overseas and had shit happen to him which probably traumatized him and explains why he HAS to be a nice guy.

>>16595902
>I spent 3 years before college on my own

oh boo hoo, it's not like you did anything difficult, you were just looking out for yourself

and now other people are to blame, especially those darn women, did someone break your heart?

>>16595909
kek you dont even know what happened. Not that anything terrible happened. Just that you learn people are pieces of shit.
Looking out for yourself isnt as easy as it sounds when youre still in your teens and you find you need people more. Its really good for breaking that mentality.

>>16595933

>nothing terrible happened
>people are shit

ok kid

>>16595909
>especially those darn women, did someone break your heart?
Guess I should respond to this in case you felt it was a pivotal point in your argument.
Fortunately for guys women are always childish, manipulative abusers and have eaten up nice guys any chance they get. There is never any reason to expect anything else from a woman. How can you get your heart broken when you know what youre getting into.

>>16595949

you have some trust issues bro

>>16595938
>hey I really really need your help or Im not going to be able to eat for a week
>sucks to be you [ignores times you loaned them money for trivial shit]
>Hey I hate to ask but somethings broke at my place. Can I crash at your place for a few
>fuck you [Pretend like I didnt spend the night over your place before]
>[insert arbitrary need for help]
>[insert rejection]
Then you begin to realize that its not that people are suddenly not there for you. They never were. Again. Nothing tragic. But this only has to happen so many times before you realize that people are pieces of shit. Now I see it everywhere. An opportunity to be a piece of shit taken at every turn (not directed at me but others of course). It was like a wave of understanding hit me. I suddenly understood a shitton of the drama my parents went through especially in their time of need. But then parents are really good at hiding their problems from their kids.
Not sure why you have faith in people but its probably wrong lol.

>>16595975

confirmation bias

gl anon

don't be an asshole cause you feel like you have to

>>16595902
So let's get this straight. You are a shitty person, and want your friend to also become a shitty person? Your friend doesn't sound like a nice guy at all, so it won't be hard to turn him shitty.

>>16595956
I dont have a single complaint about my relationship with women. I accept them for what they are.

>>16595980
>Your friend doesn't sound like a nice guy at all
Yep, the moment you ask to not be treated like a piece of shit for being nice is the moment people think you were only pretending to be nice
this is why
>being nice
>not even once

>>16595979
I just treat people as they are. Pieces of shit lol. Lifes been much better since I fully understood that. Its something you cant really understand until you see more of the world though.

>>16594768
>Really Ive been just trying to tell him to stop being a faggot and that he shouldnt be nice to people, especially women but they are quick to abuse.
You all seem like a bunch of tools. If I were there I'd tell him how manipulative you all are and lose you guys as friends because you're not a healthy group of people to stick around with.

The man in question should just turn his back and focus on himself only because selfishness seems to be the only good option at the moment.

>>16595992
>is annoying
>complains about everyone
>only does favors because he expects sex in return

Sounds like a real nice guy, all right. You need to tell your friend the truth - that he needs to stop pretending to be a nice guy, and either be his asshole self or become an actual nice guy.

>>16595975

>Does things for presumably altruistic reasons
>Friends don't reciprocate exactly when you need them to
>Gets mad and concludes everyone is terrible

Sounds like a stereotypical Nice Guy Gone Bad. Get better friends instead of pedestalizing someone enough to give them money for trivial crap. Or getting mad when they can't host you at their place for an indeterminate period of time when you're probably not even that close.

>16595998

>Its something you cant really understand until you see more of the world though.

I doubt you've really had that much worldly experience beyond living in an apartment by yourself for 3 years in one location, and now living on a college campus

Not exactly the widest sampling of life's experiences

>>16595294
This guy gets it.

>>16596030

OP's friend sounds decent enough, just hangs with the wrong crowd

I agree with >>16596025

>>16595975
>>hey I really really need your help or Im not going to be able to eat for a week

I mean jesus man, unless you live in the 3rd world, how is that anyone else's fault but your own, get your shit together

>>16596030
>>is annoying
>complains about everyone
>only does favors because he expects sex in return
>I didnt bother to read anything about him
>>16596058
No ones fault. I moved out before I was ready. People not being there for you when you need them is a different story. Its easy when everything is going smoothly.
>>16596042
If your friends are there when you need them. When are they going supposed to be. I supposed you let your friends not eat for a week but I definitely dont.

>>16596025
>If I were there I'd tell him how manipulative you all are and lose you guys as friends because you're not a healthy group of people to stick around with.
Yeah, abandon the only people who look out for you and havent even thought about betraying you. Its senior year, all the fraud friends left the group already.
>>16596042
>Get better friends instead of pedestalizing someone enough to give them money for trivial crap
Ive actually gotten too tired to respond to the projecting so Ill just ignore that part. But yeah, I have better friends now. When you realize people are pieces of shit its a lot easier to discern the few who arent instead of hoping everyone isnt.

This "nice guys finish last" meme needs to die. Actual nice guys do just fine. Those who blame their problems on being too nice usually are not nice at all, but rather, angry jerks.

>>16594692
>121 replies
>18 posters

Obvious bait by an insecure person.

Your friend must have made you so ass blasted for you to even make this thread. Are you a prick who tries to meddle in other peoples affairs for shits and giggles? You don't sound like a friend, you sound like a hypercritical piece of shit who doesn't deserve friends in the first place.

Mind your own business and your friend is better off exploring relationships on his own if you're the type of friend they have.

Been with friends like this, think they know better but they're just insecure idiots themselves. My tip to your friend is find better friends and generally do your own thing that suits your goals. If you have a goal you'll meet girls and friends who share the same passion and personality.

Life is easy without unneeded drama.

>>16596177
This who statement is just all around wrong its great.
>>16596176
>Actual nice guys do just fine
So were resorting to blatant lying now.

>>16596182

>an opinion is wrong

Must sting to hear some truth for once.

>>16596187
>unfounded, baseless assertions and conjectures
Yeah, they sure sting lol

>>16596189

Must sting so much that you try so hard to refute opinions you don't agree with.

Stay butt blasted for life faggot.

>>16596194
I need opinions to have a base first lol. Youre so mad. Its great. Keep it coming.

>>16596195

Not really, don't project. Just calling things as I see it. Anyways, you can give up now.

>troll gets called out
>muh base
>muh retard race on the internet

Kek

>>16596201
>just making unfounded baseless assertions as I see it. Feel defeated now.
Do people really try to make a point this way. Brb. making popcorn.

>>16596208

All of what you are claiming doesn't really matter. What matters is how you try so hard to discredit and refute an opinion on a topic. Which means it must have affected you emotionally enough to act this way.

>>16596219
Lets be serious. I didnt see an opinion. Just unfounded assertions. Ive responded to pretty much every attack made against me. Yours is just that inferior. If you try again Ill respond.

>>16596223

Narcissism is the true entertainment in this one. It thinks it's in a debate club on /adv/. How psychotic.

>I fend off all attacks on my fragile ego
>My textbook of ad hominems

Just laughing and I don't even have to try. Simplicity just breaks people since it's true,

>>16596231
[crunching on popcorn]
>muh baseless assertions sure got him right guys
lol please. I expected better.

>>16596238

It's baseless enough to make you reply this much so anon has a point.

>>16596241
Ive already stopped playing video games so I have nothing better to do but keep laughing until someone makes a serious reply to this thread.
>you replied I win
KEK

>muh ocd
>muh nonstop replies
>ur inferior

I think I spot the idiots in denial pretty well.

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>>16594692
>I keep telling him to stop being a faggot that no one actually likes nice guys.
The qualities of a nice person and having self-respect are not mutually exclusive.

>>16596244

Just laughing that you're losing it. You have probably been in this thread for hours gritting your teeth. Yeah you go enjoy your popcorn kid. Maybe your babysitter will clean your keyboard later.

>>16596248
The problem is that he feels obligated to help people in need. So no matter how shitty people treat him he has to help them if they ask for it.

>>16596257

Again with the narcissism and projection. If anything it's probably you that treats your friends like shit.

>>16596266
This is literally unintelligible.

Its way too late. Gonna go take a shower and if there isnt a serious reply close the thread. I doubt itll still be up when I wake but I might check the archive so feel free to post if you feel the need and Im not here.

>>16594692

You guys sound like insecure faggots.

If anything you might be shitting on his style when you are around him. He doesn't need help, he needs better friends.

>>16596274

>the only serious replies here are the ones I agree with
>I'm gonna post replies all day I want to be right no matter how how of a psychopath I am

Get a life Lol.

>>16596182
>lying

I am an actual nice guy who is doing just fine. Whatever made you type such an angry, wrong, outburst?

>>16596284

Sorry I'm being a faggot. I just don't like nice guys they always finish first in my world because I'm a prick online and offline lol. Brb gonna take a shower.

[munches popcorn]

>>16596277
>If anything you might be shitting on his style when you are around him
Wouldnt be too far fetched if I didnt include the part about not bring girls around us and this shit happening.

>>16596284
You generalized that all nice guys do just fine. Sorry but you cant use yourself for a singular example in a generalization

>there are 20 posters in this thread
Crap I almost want to know if you guys are still reading the thread and planning on going to post. But Ill have to assume not. Way too late.

>>16596321
You generalized that all nice guys finish last.

>20 posters
>1 anon with no life

>>16594692

>>16594828
This, I know from personal experience, being that loser friend, he'll eventually grow full bitter and give up on life.

>>16597026
What you'd think would happen is that he'd just see people for what they really are. And learn not too let people use him

>>16597128
He already does see people for what they are, he's just lying to himself about it. Whithout that lie he has nothing to live for.