on the one hand i wish i were pretty and makeup is something i probably should have already spent years learning, but on the other i'm already so old it may not be worth it. and there's so little time left in this lifetime so maybe i should spend it on something worthwhile and meaningful?
worrying about how i look and finding boys is tiring but i can't seem to stop. joining a monastery or even volunteering at a retreat center would be a great way to limit those unwholesome distractions.
but i want want want sensual pleasure, intellectual closeness and a sense of belonging.
>>16469518
if you're not already using make up, don't, it's not worth it imo. I wish my mother and sisters hadn't introduced it to me, maybe I'd feel more comfortable leaving the house without it
>it would have been nice if I hadn't been bullied for having acne either, cest la vie
just improve your general skin quality, do your hair better, work out a little and be a bit more fashionable. The rest is just charm to be honest family
>>16469527
you know they're a tranny right
make up wont fix that shit up
>>16469518
Yes, you should start using deceptive war paint.
It will allow you to deceive young attractive men into your dungeon of pleasure who otherwise wouldn't be interested.
It may also lift your spirits when you look in the mirror and realize you can't see your own hideous face.
>>16469532
well whatever, it still applies
make up isn't going to make you into a female OP, that's not what being female means, but do what makes you happy
I actually have more respestablished for a female if I see her with no makeup
>>16469544
so what does it mean to be female? this is probably a more interesting question than the one in OP.
>>16469555
be born with a vagina and have XX chromosomes
>>16469554
Respect
>2015
>wearing makeup
Consider this
>you want a guy who understands you, adores you, and will make you laugh for years and years until you die together with hands held
Don't wear makeup
>you want to die of aids fucking 8 buys a night
Wear makeup
>>16469560
that's so boring. you have this amazing opportunity to say something profound and fascinating, and this is what you come up with?
for shame, anon :(
>>16469560
>>16469555
This
gender is a social construct stemming from cultural ideals implied onto sex.
So while there are sexually dimorphisms seperating male and female, you can't attach culturally "feminine" ideals to being female because being born with a vagina/xx chromosomes does not necessarily mean you need to enjoy make up, have long hair, wear frilly clothing etc.
That's why I understand sexual dysmoprhia, but I don't really care for "transgenderism" because it's implying a lot of things about the sexes that aren't true.
>>16469577
gender is a liberal propaganda term
There is only sex
and you are either XX or XY or if you have some fucked up diseases you get extra
>>16469589
>liberal
I don't think it's a bipartisan issue. Conservatives have stronger "traditional" perceptions of gender that they assume are associated with sex, while liberals have weirder, contrarian but still incorrect perceptions of gender ("hurr durr genderqueer")
>>16469577
i always understood gender to be a psychosocial phenomenon, with emphasis on the psych because no one seems to give it much thought. it's strange they don't give it much thought, too. because the transgender experience is a subjective one.
in any case, you seem to be confusing 'transgenderism' for transsexualism, and are basically saying that you're bothered by semantics.
>>16469594
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
"gender identity" is propaganda
>>16469604
guess to explain further.
sex = biological
gender = psychosocial, stemming from biological, social, cultural, etc. pressures
gender roles = social
>>16469604
The physchological aspect is steeped in cultural influence. You cannot separate the two so it's hard to ignore it. Psychology cannot exist in a vacuum, it will always be influenced by the environment of the individual.
Further I'm not confusing transexual and transgender - I'm saying I understand transexualism to a degree, and disdain transgenderism because I already have a disdain for gender as it is.
Transgenderism is based in the notion that you should be a different "gender" than you are, when gender is the problem in the first place. People wouldn't feel the need to "identify with another gender" if strict rules and taboos were not already predicated to the sexes based on ignorance. You can't be a female just because you want to put on a skirt or a dress and wear a wig, no matter how "convincing" you look, because it's not in line with biological reality.
Transexualism is, imo, a fairer cause for issue in people because it's based in biological dysmorphia and not just aesthetic
>>16469616
to explain it further
sex = reality
everything else = bullshit
>>16469616
gender and gender roles aren't two different things. Gender is predicated on experience of gender role from childhood to adulthood. It may be a powerful psychological influence, but it is ultimately conditioned and not natural. You can see the variances in "gender" from culture to culture that prove that.
oh god i'm so tired of this gender/sex freshman psych conversation. i was hoping for so much more when i asked what it meant to be female.
instead of loudly asserting our opinions about gender and adamantly refusing to take in what anyone else has to say, can we just get back to my original question? i'm so bored of this pointless back and forth. sometimes it bothers me that my existence is a point of contention and debate. don't we have better things to do?
>>16469567
That's what being a female is. Sorry to say, you're still a dude. One that deluded himself into thinking that he is a woman, who muyilated his genitals but a guy nevertheless.
Chromosomes don't lie.
>>16469518
lol, who cares, you're a massive whore. You've lived a shit life surrounded by shit people in a shit environment. Who cares what you do.
>>16469651
>wahh, this discussion does not confirm my ideas about sex and gender and I can't refute it so I'm going to throw a tantrum about not having my ass patted
>>16469651
Nope, that's why we're on 4chan, man.
>>16469651
you could always fuck off back to tumblr
>>16469651
>i was hoping for so much more when i asked what it meant to be female.
>I was hoping someone would validate my ignorant idea that dressing in skirts and wearing make up makes me female, why won't everyone stop making me acknowledge biological reality and instead tell me how to be a pretty girl?
Go back to tumblr
>>16469518
>but on the other i'm already so old it may not be worth it.
how old?
right. well have fun rehashing the same argument you all had in last week's trans thread then.
i'm going to make some hardcore delicious vegetable soup.
>>16469683
Have fun fucking off and never coming back.
I'm a musician and a 3D artist. I've worked my ass off to get to where I am. But whenever I make some accomplishment, my friends and family only find critical things to say. If it's great, they just say "it's good, I was surprised." Meanwhile, they send me links of other musicians and praise them to me. I feel like I've never gotten any praise from them, not the way they give these other people.
I don't think I'm that awful at what I do. But they always downplay my accomplishments and praise those of others which are comparably similar. Why? It drives me mad. It's not supportive at all. I feel that it's dragging me back and the only way to succeed is to ignore them completely, never show them anything I do.
>>16469683
>all that cognitive dissonance
>>16469688
don't let the eight worldly winds push you around. be strong and secure in yourself without looking to others for reassurance and affirmation.
>>16469688
nice blog?
Ah shit I wanted to post that as a separate thread. Eh whatever I shouldn't whine. Ty anon
>>16469701
Weren't you about to fuck off to eat soup or something?
>>16469518
Look, I think plastic surgery and hormone treatment can help you feel more like an actual girl.
Talking to a therapist might help you too.
>>16469733
cant fix stupid
>>16469741
I know, but sometimes I do feel bad about this poor guy. He has a mental illness, he probably doesn't need any more shit on his life, so if telling him that he really is a girl grants him some peace of mind, then let him be happy in his delusion.
>>16469733
the problem isn't that i don't "feel like an actual girl." that's never been the issue. i'm more worried about my place in society. what the thread was really about was feeling this desire to either do more to fit in with other people, or sort of drop out of it entirely.
how everyone extrapolated this ridiculousness about me not feeling like a "real girl" i don't understand.
so yeah does anyone have advice for me? :)
>>16469555
Having tits
wanting babies
bleeding out your vajayjay monthly
Dealing with men's attraction/desire to want to fuck you
Having your own identity but also remaining part of your group of social women
Having sympathy
Having fear
Not being clear what you want because your emotions fuck with your rational brain
This, Conan, is what it means to be a woman.
>>16470311
I don't think you'll fit. People aren't really prepared. Better if you stop trying to fit and live your life however you want.
>>16470311
What's your question? If you should wear makeup, or just generally about your life?
If you're lonely, are you attracted to men or women? What kind of sexual relationship would you want? That's not the most important question, but men and women in general are fairly fixed in their sexual preferences (though women less so).
>>16470375
didn't you read the op? question seemed simply stated to me but idk.
i like men and women but mostly men. i want the kind of sexual relationship where we're best friends and do everything together and also have sex and travel the world? eating all the tasty foreign foods and pretending to be cultured. and we cuddle a lot and he supports me in my religious practice.
>>16470375
You're talking to a tranny here, dude.
>>16470395
How does make up come into all this?
abandon your pathetic delusions and seek nibbana - you know it's the right thing to do.
life is suffering, you will never find permanent happiness here, no matter what you do, so give up the futile search. abandon your sexuality, condition yourself into asexual celibacy, perfect and serene.
don't listen to these dopes on 4chan, abandon all your interests except obsessively studying and practicing early buddhism.
you're causing all your own suffering when you already know the way of cessation.
>>16470311
post a face pic of yourself, please
>>16470516
>asexual
with one word, you ruin a perfectly good post.
>>16470662
Fuck dude, do you seriously crave this much attention? Get a life
>>16470662
i'm not as obsessed with gender terminology as you, maybe there's a better term for the non-sexual state i've attained.
>>16470686
asexual celibacy wouldn't offer as much insight, and buddhism isn't about denying who you truly are.
unwholesome desires and all, you are you.
>>16470701
>buddhism isn't about denying who you truly are.
>you are you
Says the transexual
>>16470710
you don't know what my thoughts and feelings are about transsexualism or myself.
making unfounded assumptions is so unattractive
>>16470701
you don't know anything about buddhism. if you did, you'd know there is no you at all. dope.
>>16470894
that's emphasized a lot more in the mahayana traditions. regardless, this is just a problem of language.
celibacy is useful largely as a way to experience and study your own desires, and the reactions to those desires and the reactions the mind makes when denied them in different ways.
forcing yourself to become asexual is a practice in harmful futility.
but what do i know.
>>16470905
Not Buddhism, obviously.
Would be pretty nice to be asexual though :/
Boys are the worst.
>>16469651
Why do you type like your so above everyone else it's super annoying.
>>16471931
I've had that conversation so many times. When you're trans people like to share their beliefs about transsexuality at you. If you're online, conversations are often derailed when people decide your presence means they need to express their opinions concerning gender.
And after a year or so of this, you've heard it all. No one ever has anything novel to say about it, but I still have questions. I've always wondered what a woman is, and what a man is. I'm not saying I know any better than anyone else. But I also don't jump into random threads to express my thoughts on the subject. It doesn't even seem worthwhile to discuss my beliefs now. Running in those same circles over and over is just tiring.
I'd rather discuss makeup and monasticism.
this whole trans thing is so hopelessly delusional. what went wrong?
>>16470912
Except stopping stuff and thinking about the reaction is Buddhism...
Idiot.
Yeah if you guys want to discuss Buddhism I'm here :)
Would love that desu.
>>16471907
Yeah, no. Let me fix that for you.
>humans are the worse
There is no distinction between male and female when it comes to how fucked up either are.
Both are prone to the bullshit that this entire board complains about.
>>16472045
Girls are annoying with their bitchy gossip, but boys suck because you want them and they're mean.
>>16472051
So rejecting you is being mean?
>>16472067
As if I'd give them the chance to reject me.
My ex wore makeup. She was a fucking expert at it I tell you that. She managed to raise herself from a 5/10 to a 8 or 9/10. Currently dating a girl that wears 0 makeup and lookswise she's a 7. To be honest I don't know which one I like more. I mean a well applied makeup can do fucking wonders, works for my dick. But my current partner is better in everyway. Looks aren't everything i don't know what I'm typying. Just be comfortable with yourself i guess
>>16469518
don't wear makeup, its terrible for your skin and expensive
you are beautiful without it (:
>>16472074
>but boys suck because you want them and they're mean
>as if I'd give them the chance to reject me
Okay.
>>16472087
Yeah see. I think if I were makeup pro I could be crazy hot. As things are my body is fit and fem, but I worry my face is kinda masculine.
I certainly wouldn't be comfortable in makeup, especially as I was learning it. Would probably get pretty frustrated when it didn't look good. Im the least artist person ever and this would be a huge challenge. Worth it?
>>16472094
I know it's not the best for your skin but when I look at my face there are often some imperfections I want to cover up. Like weird red marks near my nose. My skin is pretty good so long as I eat clean and I keep up with my skin routine but still. Idk.
>>16472102
Yeah? Not sure what your problem is with my language.
>>16472120
If they're mean because you want them, isn't that rejection? Holy fuck.
>>16470720
You are denying who you truly are, wether you accept it or not.
>>16472125
Where are you getting because from? Them being mean is a separate thing from my wanting them.
>>16472127
No more than anyone else, I don't think. Those of us raised in individualistic societies are generally more obsessed with self-identity than is healthy (imo), and in my case some of that is likely expressed through the trans medium but I mean. Trans people exist in collectivist cultures, too.
Even without the self-obsession learned from my western culture, I feel fairly confident that I'd feel better on hormones wearing girl clothes.
>>16472144
>No more than anyone else, I don't think
Nice deflection. Your post doesn't even begin to address how are you not denying your true self nor how can that be compared to everyone else.
>>16472127
And I mean, again. I haven't really said here what my feelings are concerning sex and gender. Morons on the Internet like to throw around tired psych phrases like "cognitive dissonance", but what does that mean for me? I've studied the biological differences between men and women more than most have, from chromosomes to gametes and the vast differences in endocrinological function. That's not anything I deny, so where exactly is the cognitive dissonance?
>>16472167
I don't know how to address your accusations because I don't really understand what you're saying. It's just a general statement of "you're denying your true self" with no explanation of what that really means or how it applies to me.
You're probably just trying to troll with as little effort as possible, which is fine I guess.
trannies always cray cray. you deny urself by thinking your a girl when physical evidence says you have a penis. if you got a dick u not a girl how is this so complicated fag
>>16472183
You are a man who likes to think he is a woman. If that isn't denying your true self I don't know what it is.
You are still a man though. Simple enough for you? But nice mental gymnastics, I guess.
>>16469518
>but i want want want sensual pleasure, intellectual closeness and a sense of belonging
Normal people have problems with achieving that. Since you are cleraly mentally unstable it will be almost impossible to fullfil these wishes because not many people would like to deal with a crazy guy.
>>16472312
Lol?
>>16472328
Well how are we defining male and female? If we want to limit ourselves to the biological, then sure I'm male. And I have no issue writing "male" on legal documents. But I feel as though I'm not adequately defined by legal or biological definitions.
I still don't know what a woman is in the abstract sense. But I like my feminine body. I like taking on the submissive role with men. I like being a caring and compassionate person. That nurturing role, that's sort of maternal maybe? That's what I find fulfilling at this stage of my life.
So I don't know. If you want to call me a man I'm not really upset by it. I don't correct people if they try to call me "he", though most use female pronouns without my ever asking. I feel like I'm a woman in this psychosocial sort of abstract sense.
I certainly don't need anyone's support or reassurance of my feminine feelings. It must be difficult for most people to imagine what transsexuality is really like. And people like to simplify things and apply generalities as mental shortcuts. I can't blame them for that.
>>16472342
I'm not mentally unstable.
>>16472362
From what I uderstand you are a man reffering to himself as a woman? That's not something mentally stable people do
>>16472120
>I certainly wouldn't be comfortable in makeup, especially as I was learning it. Would probably get pretty frustrated when it didn't look good. Im the least artist person ever and this would be a huge challenge. Worth it?
Not that anon, but you should try practicing at home when you know you have time to spare and will be comfortable. I don't wear make up very often, but when I do, I like to use Bare Minerals. You go light or heavy on coverage, and no one can tell the difference. I get compliments on my complexion when I have a little bit on to cover up redness or the rare break out.
If you want to play around with eyes or lips, go for a classic Dita Von Teese look. It makes anyone look good, and all you need to do is learn how to do a red lip and flick of the eye. It's very classy looking.
>>16472120
Also, badly applied makeup is a huge turn off for me.
>>16472507
What I'm saying is, you either are an expert at it or it looks bad. For me it works like that
>>16472507
>>16472513
That's why they should start off with light make up. Using the advice from >>16472460, they can go light on foundation and work on the very basics. Then they can progress on their own time without others watching and judging. That's pretty much what I've done, and it works.
>>16472460
How do you know what kinds of makeup to buy? Like the brand is easy, but then there's like skin tones and shades of things? It's all so complicated :/
>>16472596
Sometimes it's trial and error. Generally, to match your foundation to your skin tone, you compare it to the color of your inner forearm (or area under the wrist). You can pay a little bit of money to get samples sent to you, if you don't know what the make up is going to look or feel like. This is generally what I do, if I can't make it to a store, as I live out in the middle of the country.
>>16469563
This.
I use to wear full make up everyday from 14 until I was 20. When I started not wearing make up outside I attracted better relationships and became a lot more confident.
We are not all meant to be super models put effort into yourself like your personality, hobbies, hair, being fit, teeth and how you smell those are far more imporant than if your face can be on magizine cover.
>>16472742
Hair is another issue I have. How do you know how to do your hair? Learn how, I guess. LGBT says I look "heavy metal" with my long hair and not like a girl.
>>16472782
have you heard about youtube? Fucking search 'easy hairstyles', 'good hair product' and follow steps. Why do you feel the need to ask this bullshit on /adv/ if there are literally tousands of tutorials out there? Do you enjoy spamming so much? What's the deal?
>>16472792
Yeah I like posting on 4chan and talking to people. Sometimes they offer helpful insights and there are lots of different ways to learn things. I don't see a problem with asking adv for advice or even spamming a little if it's fun.
Chill out bro.
>>16472831
but what's the point if you can find all your answers on forums dedicated to beauty/wellbeing? Hell, you could even ask /fa/ for hair related things. Right now you come off as a crazy attention seeker.
>>16472842
>but what's the point if you can find all your answers on forums dedicated to beauty/wellbeing? Hell, you could even ask /fa/ for hair related things.
Because /adv/ gives advice on all sorts of things, not just relationships. There's a huge crossover between /fa/, /cgl/, /fit/ and /adv/. /fa/ also tends to be a male dominated board, so she wouldn't exactly get what she's looking for. Contrary to popular belief, gay men aren't that great at giving beauty and fashion advice to women.
>>16472842
I've tried posting in fa. They said they were mostly male fashion and had no real advice, and threads quickly devolved into transphobic nonsense.
But I shouldn't really have to justify my presence here. This is a public advice board, and I'm asking for advice. If it bothers you just hide the thread or ignore it? Or at least stop posting off topic in it.
>>16472965
And also, the fa advice was weird as fuck. I just want to look like an average girl and they were posting these crazy $500 tops that looked like something lady Gaga's male dancers would wear on stage.
I don't think that crowd is very grounded in reality, honestly.
>>16472977
Well, /fa/ is really only decent if you're a gay male or into Ninja fashion. You'll have a better time at /cgl/, even if your topic is unrelated.
>>16472990
Yeah maybe I should check out that forum. I really wanted fa to work out. When I found out 4chan had a fashion board I was excited, thinking I could like better myself with their help. But those guys are kind of insane lol.
>>16473004
You should just shack up with pegasus, he's a thirsty faggot and the male equivalent of yourself.
>>16473029
In what way is he my male equivalent? There are lots of reasons that wouldn't work out I think...
You can also go on omegle and ask if u look good lol. I've done that
>>16473495
Lol that sounds so horrible. Not sure I'd be up for that until I got really good :P
>>16472792
The dude desperately craves attention, hence the tripcode and the constant threads asking inane and petty shit.
>>16469625
then what does that make somebody with complete androgen insensitivity
you can't karyotype people you see on the street you fuckin idiot
>>16473581
It's nice to talk to people, and unlike the general forums adv is a pretty sane crowd. Wish we had like a general thread besides the NEET one where we could just chat.
Oh well.
>>16473630
Where do you live? If you're looking for gay/bi/trans relationships, find a city like NY/LA. Plenty of everything there.
>>16473639
i live in rural america with lots of conservative christians.
>>16473671
Then you're in bad shape, but not horrible. Move to the closest city and find some people like yourself. You might feel alone, but you aren't; you're just not in a place where people can be open about their sexuality.
I'm guessing you're young, don't have $/freedom to move?
And it sounds like you're gay, maybe trans? Do you want to transition into a woman, or are you happy being a gay man?
>>16473671
Maybe it's time to move on and start a new life.
>>16473677
i'm 27 and a very poor college student. bring in maybe $20k USD if i have a good year. got serious about college really late so i still have a few years to go.
i am trans and have been transitioning for years, but never learned how to do things like hair and makeup. most of my 20s i spent very depressed and had some suicide attempts and stuff. still paying off hospital bills, and i don't currently have insurance so that's fun too.
>>16473685
sounds pretty nice. i could, i guess. quit college and get 2-3 jobs in some new place. not sure i could handle it though.
>>16473696
No, finish college first.
>>16473696
Your life must be kinda tough. I'm sorry for the harsh posts, you didn't need any of that and it was uncalled for. I apologize.
I sincerily wish you well.
>>16473696
Go through college, if you drop out now you likely won't ever return.
Depending on your major, you can get a job in a larger city and have a pretty decent life.
In big cities like LA, there are tons of trans women who date/have functional lives.
It's never going to be easy, as you probably have guessed; but it can get a hell of a lot better. You can find some trans friends, date a man, find some measure of happiness. No joke.
Your pic has some pretty androgynous items; a hoodie? If you're going to be a woman, then play the part: most women wear makeup.
You probably can't do it often/in public where you're at (conservative town), but like I said there are always big cities that don't give a shit.
You can Google hair and makeup tips in like 20 minutes; practice on yourself until you get it right.
Makeup is super effective, it makes women look more feminine, which is what you're going for.
Go for cheap makeup first, then you can go for expensive stuff later.
But stay in school, get skills for a good job, then you will have the freedom to do a lot of shit: move to a trans-friendly city, a wardrobe, surgeries (facial, etc.)
>>16473703
>I sincerily wish you well.
hey thanks :)
and you don't have to apologize. i can be pretty trollish sometimes i know. think maybe i'm just looking for people to chat with more than anything. i mean advice is very much appreciated and i'm serious about this stuff but i don't know how to talk to people and i miss human interaction. as pathetic as that sounds.
my life isn't so bad now. after my last suicide attempt i decided that i wasn't going to attempt ever again and have been slowly rebuilding my life. now i'm in school, i eat clean foods and exercise. don't take drugs and only drink a little bit. i completed some training and got a job i really like in spite of the shit pay. my meditation practice is going well, and i've even attended some fun intense summer retreats. and i'm slowly getting better at being a girl.
i'm proud of where i am compared to where i was 2 years ago and there's no reason to pity me.
>>16473708
>Your pic has some pretty androgynous items; a hoodie?
i do this purposefully. not because i'm afraid to be out or anything, but because i don't look great in feminine clothes. don't know why, and maybe it's just in my head; but it's like really girly clothes contrast sharply with my masculine features and i can never get the look right. i pass better in sort of androgynous clothes, at least to my eye. sometimes i wish i had friends so we could go shopping together and they could give me their honest opinions.
>>16473708
>You can Google hair and makeup tips in like 20 minutes; practice on yourself until you get it right.
i've done this some and always mean to do more. sometimes it's hard to do things, and school and work comes first. but i really want to do this. with my hair there is like a weird cowlick in back that i can't figure out what to do with. it makes me mad.
anyway yeah. youtube.
>>16473747
Proud of you, girl. Love seein people get out of the suicidal gutter and take control of their life. Ain't easy.
>>16473792
Thanks :)
i did it all alone, too. no friends no bf. all me.
i'm basically a badass desu.
>>16473834
You sound like a strong, independent woman who don't need no man.
>>16473843
>>16473868
Yeah, but don't you want one? You said so in your OP. You're lonely, and want someone to share life with; we all do. It's ok.
>>16473900
well, maybe. but who knows if that will ever happen. best not to think about it.
