>>17365809

Why? Because if you support a guy who's on the ground, reach down and pull him up, inspire him to do greatness, he will be in-debted to you. His greatest moments in life will be a memory you share with him. That shit, right there, is "80 year old grandma & grandpa who married at 20 and are still happy together" material.

I know first hand of what it's like to build confidence all alone, without anyone's support. And sadly, that's what modern man is used to. Most guys are like me. We get our shit together on our own. And it's not fun. Not one bit. It's hard. And it instills a sense of distrust in women. Even if most of us don't realize it, we still know on a subconscious level that most women just want to use us. We do not respect you. On top of that, our confidence makes us aim higher and look for women who really are the complete package. A confident man is a highly wholesome creature most of the time. We now look for special and rare women who can unlock whatever hidden potential remains in us. Very few men out there are capable of maintaining their integrity after having built up their confidence. You're nothing to them. They're out of your league. Even if they have a 3/10 face or no money. Your intellect is nothing to them. Most things you complain about in men, though, are ultimately your doing.

Feminism is big these days. So I say grab that issue by it's horn and even the playing field on the dating scene. Guys ask out shy girls and losers all the time. It's high time you tried it out, too. Because real love blooms where both people are willing to help eachother grow and better themselves. And a confident guy? Well, there's not much need for him to grow anymore, so good luck trying to find meaning in that relationship.

In closing, you should aspire to build confidence in men, as opposed to seeking out those who already have it.

I guarantee your love life will improve.

Tl;dr

>>17365820
That's ok, at least you bumped.

>>17365809
My personal experience was opposite, although my current bf of 3 years was picked up during a supposed 'low' time for him, he was still quite confident. The one before him however: low self-esteem, completely toxic, hypocritical and rude.

I don't think someone's self confidence should be classified as a make or break. You say that those without self esteem have potential to be higher quality partners, but confidence is an achievement that is developed over a lot of success and hard work, something that is prevalent in strong-willed people. Having a strong will and being dependable is crucial in relationships. Why are you suggesting to throw those qualities away and search otherwise on purpose?

>>17365845
I completely forgot to mention that it's not a guaranteed effect, of course. There's lots of other factors that could turn men without self esteem into complete ass-clowns once they do build confidence.

Strong will and dependability seem rather irrelevant for me. I can't really comment on it. Mind you, I'm not giving you the perfect equation to romance. Just a solid pointer, in my experience.

I suppose my bottom line is that if you want to date confident men, assume that they're a 10/10 or a 9/10. That's what they will think themselves to be, after all. And if you don't match that, you'll be hard pressed to make the relationship work.

>>17365811
>Be always steel confident but sorta autistic at the same time living a satisfying loner life
>finally find a broken girl who I perceive as someone time worthy, she has 0 confidence though, looking for someone to hang onto
>lift her up, fix her as mach as I can, become attached despite how reserved autistic I am
>she cheats on me at the end anyway

I support what has OP said.

>>17365873
Also as OP said. Pitiful and mediocre girls are now out of the league, no for fixing anyone, burned once never more. Only iron bitches with strong personalities, It's probably as hard as finding "prince charming" for women, but I aim no lower now.

Alright anon, let's have a story time about why your advice is flawed. For instance I met a guy with low self esteem and I managed to get him enough self-esteem to pull him out of his NEEt-basement, get a job and within a year have him promoted to manager with some love and support. Forced him along on shopping trips so he could exchange his sneakers, jeans and tee to some proper clothing. His confidence raises, all good. Now, girls start to notice this new man that dress good, got a nice job and seem well put-together. They in turn start to politely flirt, he of course, being a good boy in essence turn them down for his girlfriend that have loved him for ages. But now what used to be her confidence boosters for him to achieve better in life seem like nagging, boy start to get annoyed, boy remember girls are flirting with him now and he is confident. Boy leave girl for a better looking girl because he consider himself more worthy of one now.

So why should I raise a man's confidence and make him achieve greatness when he will leave me for a better looking woman afterwards? Seemingly your point is that one should push men down, keep them on a leash, keep them without self-esteem and look forward to the impotence-problems when we grow old together.

Let's just face it, some men are horrible. Some women are horrible. The only reason people get together is because loneliness drives one to insanity, and those who can deal being alone are often depressed fuckers or have dedicated their life to some sort of passion that fakes intimacy or keeps their mind off loneliness.

>Why? Because if you support a guy who's on the ground, reach down and pull him up, inspire him to do greatness, he will be in-debted to you. His greatest moments in life will be a memory you share with him. That shit, right there, is "80 year old grandma & grandpa who married at 20 and are still happy together" material.
That might be just you m8.

I did that with a guy. He had problems, but I liked him. Picked him up, supported him, everything. He dumps me and chooses the bitch he liked for a longer time who doesn't give a shit about him.

You're just saying these to put it on women's shoulders because you're saddened they don't pick you.

Have a good day.

Fucking redpillers. It sounds like you took our advice on confidence, but didn't we tell you to stay away from /r9k/ and its ilk? You took our advice and twisted it into bullshit.

>>17365809
>I was a guy who had no self esteem. Confidence is one of the greatest achievements any guy could have. It's the gateway to success for us. Confidence can move fucking mountains.
This part, right here, is gold. I am glad we could help you with this. However...

>>17365811
>Why? Because if you support a guy who's on the ground, reach down and pull him up, inspire him to do greatness, he will be in-debted to you.
This part, right here, is shit. It only works in the rom-coms and the MPDG films. It never works in real life.

This treatment is enabling, not inspiring. If you reach down to pull a guy up, he'll cling to the bottom ever harder. Pull too hard, and you'll break your arm before you wrench him free. Which, come to think of it, may be why even the MPDG films so often end badly for the MPDG.

There's no shortage of confident men, why would a woman ever want to settle for some faggot just because he might possibly grow balls?

>'waah mommy doesn't coddle me anymore, I need a new mommy. it's other people's job to build me up. if girls don't date me, it's THEIR fault. I'm so angry and resentful, I'll let them know they mean shit to me. confidence=arrogance & narcissism waaah'

>>17365809
You take quite a narrow view on the issue
I can't be bothered to go into depth, but basically:

Confident men are the gold standard, with a relatively higher risk that they eventually get fed up with you

Men with no self-esteem are bronze tier men, but come with a low risk of becoming fed up of you

That doesn't mean a woman should settle for the latter

>>17366121
And basically this, yes

>>17365888
You don't like iron bitches with strong personalities. Firstly, you won't know what to do with them, secondly, you'll want someone more feminine whom you'll feel needs your help. You said you like to fix girls. You won't go for this type. With 'iron bitches' you'll only put more weight on them.

jesus thanks for the lecture dad

i'm sure you'll get a gf by explaining to all these girls what you think is wrong with them

Rather than that, I'll build myself into a successful, attractive, loving, supportive and warm woman that a confident man would love to have by his side.

I do what I can to give the man I love more confidence, I try to support him in all of his endeavors and offer him a stress-free, warm environment. But it is not my job to build someone from the ground up. A person like you've described should not be dating at all; he needs to focus on himself first.

This thread is interesting at least.
I'm on the fence, but just thought I'd hit some keys.

My two pence is that women should consider how they judge men, but at the same time choose what ever makes them happy.
Men shouldn't beat themselves up too much, because percieved notions of women's taste in men shouldn't be colored by circumstance.
There's a time and place for meeting the right one, so don't take it personal if today isn't the right day.

OP is incorrect. Take your robot idealism elsewhere

Shit like this is why neither gender will ever be happy en masse.
On the macroscale:
We have turned courtship into a fucking arms race, both sides are guilty and neither will accept any blame.

Thankfully a relationship between two people is on the microscale and they can easily defy the current social order.

You will never find a simplified recipe for love, the closest you will ever come is proquintity.

Best of luck, keep in mind resentment rarely leads to love.

> le confidence

can't wait for this forced meme to die, jesus its been like 8 years now

Don't guys hate women who try to fix them? You're basically telling us to manipulate a guy into a lasting relationship, which is another trait guys hate about women. I have no interest whatsoever in raising someone's manchild. I deal with my own shit and I expect my man to do the same. This is literally the worst advice ever.

>>17365809
Speaking as a guy with no confidence and self esteem this is the worst shit ever.

The last thing I want is another mother or a woman trying to "fix me" I'd rather spend the rest of my life alone.

That's a nice theory and I'm sure that it works out well for some people, but it's hardly a cheatcode. The reason guys like Zuckerberg are praised so much for staying with their pre-success girlfriend, is that it's entirely NOT the norm for men to not trade up as soon as they can.

It's also a quite common story for guys to leave their first girlfriend because they can't fathom never having sex with more women, or because now that they are confident they want to be with a girl who only knows them as the confident, masculine version.

Having said that confidence is attractive, but not the end all. As long as a guy's not cripplingly insecure I care a whole lot more about other shit.

>>17366523
This, physical appearance and material wealth are much more important than 'confidence'

>>17366533
>material wealth
Not sure what planet you're living on, I'm twenty three and literally don't know anyone with money, "rich" is having 3000 in your savings account.

I was more talking about having stuff in common and having sexual tension/chemistry. Conversation being interesting and natural. And obviously I need to find him attractive, yeah.

>>17366566
I'm just saying from my side, I'm a very ugly guy and no one would even look at me until I did some big investments and now I'm 'rich' for my age and station. But now I get plenty of attention

Point is, 'confidence' doesn't real and even if it does it's like the least important factor

>>17366579
Huh, that must be an entirely surreal experience. I imagine it's pretty bittersweet.

Personally I see confidence more like something that helps others see the good in someone. Like with a job interview: you could be a completely competent and qualified candidate, but if you come in with your shoulders hunched and keep mumbling, they won't buy that you can do the things they want from you. If a guy is confident, then girls are way more likely to realize that he's witty or talented or interesting. Also because the confidence will allow him to be aware of his pros and show them off. But it's no deus ex machina and it won't turn a guy with little to offer into a catch.

>>17365809
You sound like you think you're Jane Goodall studying the apes.

Or maybe more like some uppity snob from the 19th century trying to present a theory on why negroes or jews aren't human.

It makes it very difficult to take you seriously.

>>17366590
It's pretty terrible desu but only really because I had some Disney level per-conceived notions of people in general being nice or empathic or good or whatever. I found out how awful everyone is which was bad but then you know you realise that they were always like that and I was just expecting them to be better for no real reason

I think that goes back to what OP was trying to say really, that everyone has something to offer but maybe they can't advertise very well, so if everyone just took a little bit of effort to be sincerely interested in strangers rather than just the surface like how you say to do it, things would be better. Inner beauty and that

>>17366623
Yeah I can imagine that. Money tends to bring out the worst in people. If I were you I'd spend it on living your life the way you want to - you can travel, do whatever kind of unwanted work you'd enjoy, educate yourself for whatever hobby - and keep trying to find a girl without giving away at first that you're wealthy. But that might be unrealistically optimistic, I haven't lived your situation (thankfully, I must say).

That's a very sweet sentiment, and I think anyone who is looking for a relationship owes it not just to others but to themselves to keep their eyes open and make notice of the little things that give someone's character and outlook on life away. But the sad truth is that there are many guys out there who are starved for female acknowledgement and attention, if you were to show too much interest then pulled away, that could do a lot of harm for them and/or make them turn on you. Of course they are a minority, but there really are guys who feel like you've led them on by smiling at them, let alone showing genuine interest in them and their life and then not wanting more.
I honestly blame the disintegration of everyday social structures for this. Of people were still embedded in communities where they had an appreciated role and affectionate everyday relationships with an array of family members, family friends, shop owners etc etc there might be less pressure on a romantic relationship to make up for all the loneliness you have experienced in life.

>>17365809
This post has taught me nothing.
I must be a weird woman.

>>17366640
All I wanted was for someone to like me for myself, which is something money can't buy and other such trite ramblings. What's the point in traveling around the world and building memories and shit if there's no one else in them? I'll have a big photobook of empty pictures

I don't understand your line of thinking in the second paragraph, could you expand on that please? Like, why are you so afraid to give any small kindness to random ugly guys but would happily do so for nice looking guys?

>>17366664
Both that you enjoy your time more than when you are just sitting at home (traveling solo now doesn't mean you won't ever do it with someone else), and you will build more life memories and stories that can make you more attractive.

It's not about any small kindness, I'll happily help some stranger look for their keys or pick up their papers or throw them a smile. But when it's about showing spontaneous interest in someone, it's harder.
From my point of view it looks like this: if I'm with a handsome guy and ask him about himself, simply out of curiosity and to get an idea of whom he is - and he gets the wrong idea and tries to get my number, I can relatively easily decline. The worst case scenario is that he calls me a bitch or a tease, in which case I can easily rebuff by pointing to the fact that a) they barely know me and b) it is obviously not like I am their one shot at a female companion ever. And I happen to not be interested.
If it's an awkward, average looking guy, there is a chance that simply by showing interest, I will be huge in his world - the first cute girl who stroke up conversation out of nowhere and wanted to know who he was. If he then wants to go out with me and I don't want to, the worst case scenario is quite a lot worse. He could throw back in my face that I gave him hope for the first time in years, for example, and now I would just walk away and go for another guy. He could be terribly insistent that I please just give it a shot, and I wouldn't have the leverage of knowing that ultimately little depends on me so I can do my own thing. I would feel guilty for not being interested in potentially dating.

I hope this makes things a bit more clear. Having said that I should add the disclaimer that I have a very hard time rejecting people and also very rarely develop feelings for someone (that is no exaggeration, the last time was eight years ago), so I doubt this is something most women consider.

>>17366692
I disagree, stories don't fix your face

That is a weird way of thinking, you're excluding ugly guys 'for their own good'? And desu I would rather have had just one person show interest in me regardless of the intensity or motivation behind it, something that I've noticed in ask opposite gender threads and in my own experience is that ugly guys go through life in a weird state of semi exile. Like you say, people avoid interacting with us if possible, no one compliments me on anything or asks how my day is or what I've been up to recently or whatever, never mind interacts with me romantically. Maybe they are all like you, avoiding me so they don't have to risk committing

>>17365811
can confirm
i recently regained some will to live and decided to finally go out and do shit
learned how to be confident because i just don't give half a fuck about anything anymore
made lots of friends and met hot grills
life is looking up all thanks to confidence

although if it went the other way and a woman had been the one to pull me out of my misery and make me confident i have no idea how i would ever repay her :3

>>17366719
No, but it's not all about your face either. If you're deformed that's another story, but it's not just hot people having sex and falling in love.

I wouldn't call it for their own good, more because of my awkwardness with the situation of having to potentially reject someone. It's also not as much about whether or not they're ugly as whether or not they're socially successful enough (one way or another) to realistically get attention from other girls.
Also I didn't mean it in a too extreme manner: if I'm with a group of people and notice that some ugly guy isn't involved in conversation, of course I'll try to strike up a conversation. But I would never walk up to a guy sitting alone to talk to him and keep him company, because I don't know what the balance is between being kind to someone and giving them a false impression. It is very easy for someone not used to attention of the opposite sex to grow fixated on someone just for being the first to be around, I have been in that position myself once.

I'm sorry. That's an entirely rough deal. There's nothing else I can say about it that's worth anything.

>>17366776
It is in my case, my body is fine

How do you decide whether someone is worthy of attention from a distance? I'm not sure how you could tell if someone is 'socially successful' by looking at them, apart from if your closely associate that with looks and go from there

>>17366791
It's not about being worthy of attention or not. It's about whether I can enter the scene and leave without issue or might get myself in over my head. Although to be fair, I wouldn't walk up to some handsome guy sitting by himself either, now that I think about it for longer. I guess the difference is still smaller than that.

I'm not that extroverted so virtually all people I come in contact with are people from my year in college, that I have seen interact with others and around their social cliques, and friends of friends I've already heard descriptions of.

>>17365941
Exactly. I've had this same issue with men. Especially what was once confidence building is now nagging to him. He will still disrespect me sometimes: looking at women or trying to talk to certain coworkers I told him I don't like. However he stays with me. The reason for this is because, I think, I started treating him like crap and making him think that I'm more confident than him. Calling him names and making up stories that other men are chasing after me. In his eyes he can continue trying to build up his confidence and women can chase him, but what he wants is me: a woman to be in control and that he's lucky to even be in my presence.

>>17366168
Could also say,

Don't play the role of a Mother to a man who isn't your son.

>>17366470
>>17366494
Samefag much?