I'm dating a man child. How do i help him to become a man? I'm talking long term, not immediate fix.
>>17315983
it has to be a conscious effort on his part to change and throw away what he loves.
If he doesn't change by 30 or when he becomes a father, he won't change ever.
>>17315983
Man child is a label, not a description of behavior. What behaviors do you want him to change?
>>17315994
It's not even "behaviour" per se. He's just very immature and has exrremely naive opinions on almost everything. He doesn't have "critical thinking" and he is pretty much stuck up in his victime role. He seems to really belive that the world revolves around him. Don't get me wrong. He's an adorable guy. He just really needs to grow up at some point. For example: he almost exclusively talks in pre-made sentences. Iow, he never really voices his own opinion. Everything he says are things he has heard somewhere, read somewhere or are commonly used phrases like "the early bird catches the worm". It drives me insane. So i told him to stop hiding himself behind idioms and actually talk like a human being. He was shocked that i want to hear what HE has to say instead of what i "want to hear". It's stuff like that.
>>17316005
Autistic?
He needs to divorce himself from his ego, open himself to naked introspection. Try LSD.
>>17316005
Sounds like an only child.
>>17316005
Shit dude, sounds like me a few years ago. When you're lonely for so long and are lonely in the first due to lack of social skills you try to emulate "normal" or "interesting" behavior but unlike Normies you can't actually internalize these social rules and thus you always come off as weird while being what you consider normal.
>>17316011
Has crossed my mind more than once. Might be. Then let me rephrase. How can i have a relstionship with an autist?
>naked introspection
I like that. He would really need that. Any way to help him do that without thw drugs?
>>17316019
He has an older brother. His parents where rather old when they had kids. They are pretty autistic themselfe.
>>17316023
Focus more on the sentiment behind the words than the words themselves. An autist's feelings are genuine and their intentions are genuine, but their interactions, as you've discovered, are not. Since they don't know how to express themselves, they pick the interaction that most closely represents what they want to express and use it instead, because it worked for the person who initially expressed it, so why not?
>>17316023
And no, I don't know a way to do this without drugs.
>>17316005
how old is he? alot of people are like this when you first speak to them.
>>17316021
Wait, let me rewrite that to make more sense
Shit dude, sounds like me a few years ago. When you're lonely for so long and are lonely in the first due to lack of social skills you try to emulate "normal" or "interesting" behavior but unlike Normies you can't actually internalize these social rules and thus you always come off as weird while preforming what is objectively "normal" behavior.
Because when you are conversing with somebody, you subconsciously follow all these unsaid and unrecognized behaviors that lets the conversation flow naturally. The problem lies, in that you can't really learn these rules by recognizing what they are. You have to internalize the entire thing!
In a sense, you cannot teach your bf out of man child mode, but you must somehow make him internalize what society thinks a man should be like
>>17316027
I know that and i have done exactly that since half a year. Ofc it works. But it feels like talking to a robot with no actual human emotions. Nothing seems genuine, even though i know it is. He never lets me in on his thoughts and that puts great distance between us. Yesterday, we where talking about something and he was staying in common place all the time so i told him to cut the bullshit because i know he feels different from what he says and to give me something real to work with. Suddenly he was able to tell me about his concerns and what not. I know it's there. I need to kick his ass everytime i want to see some of "him" and that's exhausting. Because if i don't, we drift away and i don't always want to pester him.
>because why not
because then i could also date siri who observes how people commonly react to situations
>>17316039
Every relationship has communication barriers to overcome. You know this one, you know him, you know his past, he loves you, why would you let the fact that he's a cyborg get in the way? You'll move on th ethereal next guy who is genuine but superficial, "I just can't open up," and then you'll be missing the genuine feelings behind the robotic interactions, instead of experiencing the vapid limbo of the mind of a normie.
>>17316034
I don't want to make him "internalize what society thinks a man should be like". Holly hell, that sounds really unenjoyable for everyone...
What went wrong in your case? Where/are you autistic? Why would people start doing that? I mean, everyone does that to some degree i guess. But this is really next level
>>17316030
He's 22. We're dating since 8 months...
>>17316041
Yes, it has. That's what i'm trying to do atm...
Because obviously it's not always easy to have a good relationship with a robot.
>vapid limbo of the mind of a normie
I fear, inside the autist is a traped normie... I'm not sure he ever gone out of his "comfort zone" ever
>>17316052
It's not easy to have a relationship with anyone.
>>17316043
>What went wrong in your case? Where/are you autistic? Why would people start doing that?
Tbqh I may be actually autistic, I haven't ever gotten tested. I'm a functioning member of society, and really I only regret being unable to ever hold down a relationship. On second thought my previous post proves I was never really able to internalize the social order since the proper posts to make in this instance are posts like these
>>17315990
>>17316027
And not present my personal retarded theory of social relations
>>17316057
Sure. But what do you want to tell me with that? That i need to suck it up? That i should just give up? That i should magically know how to make this work because "relationships aren't easy"?
>>17316005
Everyone is saying he is autistic, he just seems a bit dumb/simpleton, maybe read some books with him so you can both discuss them. Personally I read a lot but on and off because of uni as I dont have a lot of time during exams, and when I read more I feel a bit more elequent (not sure if this is the way to spell it, not american/britbong)
>>17316064
Depends on what you want out of a relationship. If you want superficial relationships have one or more. If you want something with depth and growth, it's a lot of work, like what you're experiencing here. Relationships with depth require work, relationships that don't require work lack depth. That soul mate bullshit is in the movies.
>>17316059
Sounds a lot like my bf. I might even go so far as to label him a "high functioning autist". From outside, his life looks very functional and normie. But he is SO awkward around people. Nobody seems to notice. He has a few friends. But i think they mainly play games and speak in memes to each other. It's only if you dig a bit deeper that the whole house of cards starts to fall down.
And no, i really apprecciate your posts! They help me a lot. What was the reason you couldn't "hold down a relationship" so far? How old are you? What would make you feel save enough with a girl to let down your "social masks" and be your actual self with her/let her in on your life for real?
>>17316043
>He's 22. We're dating since 8 months...
lol. same age as me. i think he is just poorly educated. i would suggest telling him to read some books that will help him think critically but i doubt he will have the patience to read them.
>>17316073
He got a good education. He's also very disciplined and resds thick books often. Just the ones that don't really help with critical thinking. Any recommendations?
>>17316067
>That soul mate bullshit is in the movies.
yeah.. alot of people dont realize this. i was recently dating a women and it came to an awkward end after about a month because she was like "i dont know if you're the one"
>>17316066
i agree. i think he is just a bit simple rather than autistic. a few of my mates are like this, and one of them is engaged and has a kid.
>>17316066
shit. i answered your post but somehow it got lost. oh well.
i don't think he's dumb. he might be keeping himself low, yes. but i think it's not because he's not capable of independent thoughts. any recommendations for good books?
>>17316067
>That soul mate bullshit is in the movies.
absolutely.
my point was that i'm aware that good realtionships need work. that's why i'm seeking your help to steer me into the right direction. i'm a bit lost. it's not like i'm a realtionship expert myself...
>>17316086
>>17316092
Any books that have no direct focus on the main character being a 'good' or 'bad' guy, and I dont mean necessarilly moraly grey, more like 'not important to the story' he is more like a living narrator, I would recomend milan kundera but most people I know think the book is about the characters and not the world around them
>>17316088
>"i dont know if you're the one"
savage>>17316096
>milan kundera
>>17316086
this is unexpected, but, yeah. If he is reading fictional books like the hunger games or harry potter, it wont help him with critical thinking. Well, Nietzsche has helped me in regards to critical thinking, and history books. Maybe get him to read the complete works of Nietzsche? there are other philosophers too that are worth investing time into, though, i think Nietzche is the most interesting. i study criminology too, and that involves alot of critical thinking.
>>17316096
Well this sounded super pretentious, ignore that, he is still a good writer though
>>17316097
Alberto moravia is nice too
>milan kundera
oh, nice recommendation. i like him.
but i was thinking non-fiction. i don't think low key thought-triggering will work on him
>>17316098
>If he is reading fictional books like the hunger games or harry potter
pretty much, yes.
>Nietzsche
i've read some nietzsche when i was younger. good idea.
is there something more "easily understandable/entry level/modern" that goes into the same direction.
>>17316099
>Alberto moravia
don't know him. i'll look into it.
>>17315983
>>17316005
You need to encourage him. If he only tells you what you "want to hear", that means he's insecure because he didn't have any social success speaking his mind, so he retreated into the very basics of socialization which is people pleasing. Like a child. Encourage him to speak his mind, to have an opinion, to not be afraid of being subjective and not always appealing some objective truth or others. If he does something that is inproper, be supportive, not judgemental. Once he has a grasp of how society really works and what role he can play that brings him and the people around him happiness, he will push his limits further. Naive people are usually naive because they're idealistic. You need to show him that reality can be just as good if not better, and being realistic doesn't mean being cruel or an asshole with others.
I was pretty much like him during high school. I started socializing in university, but I got over it pretty fast.
>>17316072
>What was the reason you couldn't "hold down a relationship" so far? How old are you?
I suppose the reason is that I simply cannot act normal, and almost no one can tolerate that. I'm 27.
>What would make you feel save enough with a girl to let down your "social masks" and be your actual self with her/let her in on your life for real?
OK, this is the real issue. You assume that if only I removed my "social mask" and did not try to act normal, I'd act normally. You say this from a position of someone who is fortunate enough to internalize the social order. There is nothing "natural" about communication. If I removed my social mask, there'd be nothing there at all! The name of this "social mask" is the social order. You wear it too, and without it you couldn't communicate. I need to wear the same social mask you do
>>17316104
>is there something more "easily understandable/entry level/modern" that goes into the same direction.
not that i know of. thus zarathustra is pretty easy to read though. meditations by marcus is easy to read too, and its pretty entry level. maybe the republic by plato too.
>>17316108
>If I removed my social mask, there'd be nothing there at all!
i'm not convinced this is true. there sure is more going on inside of you than just that "social mask". what if you are all alone? assuming you'd be all alone in a cabin deep in the norwegian forrests. no one to judge your actions, no one to "act a certain way" for. just you and the freedom to be however you feel like. how would you act differently from how you do on a daily basis? what would you be doing all day, assuming you have shelter and food provided from a mysterious source we don't have to specifie now. what would your thoughts do? where would they wander?
>>17316110
>thus zarathustra
yes, that's what i've read too. so you would resommend reading the rest too? it's been a while since i've read that. i'll give marcus and plato a try too. i never felt like actually reading them. now i have a good reason to do so.
>>17316113
None of it would apply. Because you're alone and not communicating with anyone. But when you are communicating with someone you both have to be wearing the same social mask.
For instance, if your aquantice smells, you won't tell them that. When you meet a person and say "hello, how are you?" what are you really telling them? Do you really care how they are or is that just the social mask you temporarily wear in order that you can communicate?
>>17316113
An autistic person's thoughts are hard to get to (maybe) anyway if you pressure him to say things then it's possible he makes up BS to satisfy you. I am like a robot as well and my gf has to beat stuff out of me. I'm really bad at hiding my concerns.
>>17316127
>But when you are communicating with someone you both have to be wearing the same social mask
you are talking about small talk anon... i don't want to do smalltalk with a guy i want to spend the rest of my life with.
for real communicatino to happen, you need to get into that "i won't be judged" mindset together. i know it's possible. i've experienced it a lot with friends and family. that's not a mask.
>>17316129
>pressure him to say things
i try to not do that. but it would be nice to get him to open up to me without making him do so in order to "satisfy" me.
>>17316132
You know what? You may be right. But I'm unable to experience that, so I'll never know :^(
>>17316138
>But I'm unable to experience that, so I'll never know
i'm sure you could. you would only need a person to understand why it's hard to get on a deeper level with you. i don't think it's impossible at all. is there a moment you feel like you don't worry about "fitting in or fulfilling social norms"? maybe a hobby that makes you zone out completely?
>>17316005
He's very much like I used to be. Did he grow up sheltered with weird parents?
>>17316151
Very sheltered. Medium weird parents. How where your parents weird? Any insight to get him to be more "real" with me?
>>17316005
>So i told him to stop hiding himself behind idioms and actually talk like a human being.
You got into a relationship with him and have no interest at all in the references he dishes out?
>>17316005
>He doesn't have "critical thinking"
Sounds like a normie
>>17316154
My parents are quite old, and aren't good socializers themselves. My mother's a doctor, father's an engineer. They're good together, but really socially isolated, and have been all their lives. It's an accident they found each other. They always pushed me to perform well academically and sheltered me from making friends and socialize with people because I was taught it's a waste of time, so I became quite the social retard without critical thinking skills. If you spend most of your time reading books and doing things where there is an objectively measurable truth or fact to it, you will lack this skill. I had two girlfriends, both of them had similar complaints to you.
What helped me somewhat was that I had someone with whom I could analyze social situations without being judged for being naive or ignorant.
>>17316177
>no interest at all
it gets annoying after a while. I couldn't know he would stick to those i already heard after a week for "ever".
>>17316217
Get him to try out new things and get him to read new books.
You could be blunt with him and tell him that he's sounding like a broken record, but I doubt that that would fix the issue.
>>17315983
Why do you even care?
He's attractive and not unattractive, that's the only reason you're fucking him anyway.
>>17316230
I'd rather stick to the "gently broaden his horizont" approach.
>>17316216
Sounds a lot like him. His parents have been over 40 when he was born and some other similarities. I think i will just keep trying to get him to be honest with me instead of act a certain way. I hope i'm not being too demanding with that.
>>17316244
Mkay
>>17316249
>I hope i'm not being too demanding with that.
This is what you should forget. The other thing is you should forget is being afraid to ask him something for you that might help him. This applies to almost all naive people as well because if you act decently and consider his interest as well, he will realize that what you want is good for him. If someone is naive and sheltered, you need to act confident to help them broaden their horizon. Just don't exploit him. Being a bit rude is ok.
>>17316244
>he fell for the /r9k/ meme
>>17316252
You know it's true, if you wanted something else you'd go and find something else.
>>17316249
>gently broaden his horizon
Good luck with that, it'll be quite a hurdle
>>17316261
What other options would i have to broaden his horizon? (besides thought provoking books)
Why do you date a child? Why don't you date a man?
>>17316264
>meme
>2016
>still thinks it's just a meme
>>17316268
Take the lead and drag him with you. If he's naive and beta, he will follow. Give him tasks. If he fails, be supportive and help him. Sooner or later (few months), he will get it.
The other thing you can do is acting like a woman. Practically everything that is masculine stems from being confident and not being afraid of making a subjective judgement. Be supportive of it, stroke his ego, let himself feel like a man.
>>17316244
lol this isnt even true in the slightest for most women. yeah, they will fuck a guy a few times if they find him attractive but they wouldn't have a fully committed relationship.
>>17316269
he acts an awefull lot like a man but after a while, the child shines trough. it's alright though. i'm far from being a perfectly mature human myself. i just want to know what the best way to deal with this would be.
>>17316271
I've been there since about 2011(or 12), and it is just an echo chamber of people who think like that, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Once I started living my life without those self imposed mental handicaps I realized it was bullshit (all right some of the stuff is true and good to have in mind but never to that extreme, not telling anyone to be naive)
>>17316284
The best way is to leave him alone. Everyone has a child within them, and if you try to eradicate it, they will snap. Just be a child with him. As long as he has his shit together and reliable, he's fine as an adult.
>>17316284
I guess a guy can't have their own quirks then?
Sounds dull
>>17316285
You want a smart cute gf right?
So why wouldn't a girl prefer a smart cute bf over some ugly shitstain?
"Improve your personality" -- nobody said ever.
>>17316311
>"Improve your personality" -- nobody said ever.
Keep dreaming. If you took just the slightest responsibility for your actions, you would have had a girlfriend.
>>17316335
>If you took just the slightest responsibility for your actions, you would have had a girlfriend
What would you know? I have a job, I have a car, I'm nice to guys, I'm nice to girls, I treat people like people.
But I can't do a thing about my face.
Responsibility for what actions? I was part of a voluntary drug trial to cure cancer, I help at the homeless house, what have you fucking done to deserve a gf other than fix up your hair in the morning? fuck you.
>>17316346
>Responsibility for what actions?
Like not playing the victim.
>>17316361
Being realistic isn't playing the victim.
I've probably put more effort into finding a gf than all the cunts in this thread combined.
Not everyone has a happy ending asshole.
