Am I wrong?
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You are currently reading a thread in /adv/ - Advice
You are currently reading a thread in /adv/ - Advice
So my best friend just came to me and I guess she was looking for comfort but I didnt help.
Apparently shes been ostracized by people who she tends to run into a lot because they are calling her a slut.
Now she came to me and complained and I said that she was right to be upset. Everything going smoothly here.
Then she starts saying how she isnt a slut and defending herself and ask me for my opinion. I simply said that definitionally slut was an accurate word but that the general populace is filled with people who fit that category and she flipped her shit.
But I dont understand how I am wrong. She casually sleeps around which by definition makes her a slut. Its not like its my opinion. Just a definition. Now she hates all men and says all men as hypocrites and I told her thats now true and how men are divided on this as well but she just wasnt having it.
What should I have done.
She is totally in denial.
I also had a friend that was sleeping after a week of relationship with said guys. She hated sluts.
Your friend probably thinks that she has needs, not that she's a slut.
>>17230251
you probably should have told her it didn't matter if she was or wasn't a slut.
That or just patronized her and went along with it.
>"Anon I'm upset because people keep making fun of me for being a slut"
>You're not a slut."
>"Anon, how am I not a slut."
>Well I mean you're a slut BY DEFINITION but-
you're an idiot.
Slut is a loaded word, not just something with a definition. You called her a slut in no uncertain terms. You need to learn to think before you speak and choose your words carefully enough to avoid doing something socially retarded like that in the future with other people. "I don't think having casual sex is a bad thing so long as everyone involved is consenting and no one's in a relationship" there you go, was that so hard?
Imagine a black friend who's upset that people keep calling him a nigger. Would you say "well technically you are a nigger"? Are you really that tactless?
>>17230251
Thanks for the laugh op she had it coming and now she needs to take responsibility for her actions.
>>17230296
I never told her she wasnt a slut. I said they were wrong for treating her cruelly.
>>17230304
>"I don't think having casual sex is a bad thing so long as everyone involved is consenting and no one's in a relationship"
Thats definitely not my opinion there. But Id never witch hunt anyone and treat them cruelly.
>using the n word
Not even close to the same. When you spend 400 years being enslaved, tortured, and raped because you are subhuman its a different story. Id never tell someone technically they were subhuman.
>>17230360
That's what he's saying, idiot. You should have told her she wasn't a slut.
Basically everything that this guy said:
>>17230304
"Well, no, slut definitely applies to you, but the general populace is filled with sluts, so it's okay!" Can you possibly be so socially inept that you still don't see what's wrong with that?
Nice bait, op
>>17230376
So I should have said the definition doesnt apply to her?
Im not fond of lying. I was trying to get her to see that its just a word that describes her and she shouldnt be too concerned with it since its just a word.
>>17230375
Fucking Christ. He's not saying that calling someone a slut is as bad as calling them a nigger. It's a fucking analogy.
Slut doesn't just mean "woman who sleeps around a lot," and nigger doesn't just mean "black person", and cunt doesn't just mean "woman", and faggot doesn't just mean "gay person." They're slurs, jackass. When somebody gets called something degrading and they come to you for comfort, the first thing they want to be told is that it was unfair and that they didn't deserve it. Something that 99% of the population is socially adept enough to intuitively grasp.
If your intellectual honesty is so fucking important to you that you can't bear to tell your best friend that, well, that's your prerogative, but that makes you kind of a jackass.
>>17230375
>calling it the n word
This is 4chan buddy.
>>17230405
nigger means has never just meant "black person." though. Its mean subhuman. The analogy fails. Its not just a slur. Historically people of color were 100% considered subhuman by europeans.
>>17230405
>the first thing they want to be told is that it was unfair and that they didn't deserve it.
How is that not what I did
>>17230414
I know. But the way you speak when no one is looking reflects how you truly think so I try to avoid it. Im not as hateful as most of 4chan.
>>17230392
Is that really how you talk?
>Anon, I'm so upset, they called me a slut and it really hurt.
>Wow, that's so messed up. Fuck them, seriously. What a bunch of assholes.
>I just feel like it's unfair, just because I like casual sex doesn't make me a slut. D... do you think I'm a slut, anon?
PICK THE CORRECT RESPONSE
>Well, the dictionary definition of slut doesn't apply to you, so no!
>No, of course not. I mean, I don't think it's ever right to call somebody that, but you're definitely not one.
>>17230415
The fact that you use the term "people of color" makes you sound like the kind of person that would at least know better than to call your friend a slut when they just told you they were sick of having people call her that. And even if the analogy isn't 100% sound you should still be able to understand what that anon was trying to say. Seriously, this isn't that complex.
>>17230429
But... both are a lie in someway.
I feel like it would be more beneficial for her overall to just accept that its just a word. That way they wont have any way of hurting her in the future.
>>17230427
I'm not hateful towards anyone, but frankly I think it's wrong for a word to have so much power. Controversial opinion I know, and I definitely don't casually call anyone nigger but the idea of having to always just say "the n word" doesn't sit well with me, even if the word does repulse me a bit.
>>17230360
the part where you are an idiot is where you were like "well akshully ur a sloot." you should have just stopped.
>>17230251
>What should I have done.
Find better friends.
>>17230434
I did not call her a slut. I simply said that the words definition encompasses her.
>>17230455
The word was given power by the actions taken using it. Its a sign that you lack respect for its history to casually use it.
>>17230467
that is saying she is a slut.
>>17230467
And the definition of the word nigger encompasses a wide group of people. And the definition of the word retarded encompasses you. But all three things are taboo (in varying degrees) to say.
If you call your friend a loaded word, you can expect to lose your friend or at least upset them. Regardless of whether the friend matches the definition of said word. That is how the world works and what you did genuinely shows a deep lack of understanding for that.
>>17230443
>B... but that's a lie!
Yo, dipshit, when your best fucking friend comes to you for comfort, making her feel better is more important than maintaining perfect intellectual honesty. Sometimes, compassion & loyalty to your friend is more important than being completely brutally honest.
Anyway, it really isn't a lie, since as I've explained 'slut' has a whole range implicit meanings that you're not going to see included in the fucking dictionary definition, many of which in all likelihood DON'T reasonably apply to your friend. I'm not sure how you can see that when it comes to the word 'nigger' but for some reason with 'slut' all you can see is the fucking definition.
>I feel like it would be more beneficial for her overall to just accept that its just a word. That way they wont have any way of hurting her in the future.
People are social creatures, and most people are never, ever going to be able to do this. I really doubt you live like that yourself, even if you claim to. Even if you do, it's not a reasonable thing to expect of your friend.
I don't like 4chan's habit of using 'autistic' as a slur, but this really is Autism: The Thread.
>>17230485
>And the definition of the word nigger encompasses a wide group of people
It encompasses subhumans which I do not think there are any.
>>17230493
That's the connotation. Not the definition. It's what is implied of their personhood and character when you call them that. The same way slut or retard implies certain things as well. Both of those words are ALSO belittling and judgemental.
>>17230492
>'slut' has a whole range implicit meanings
You actually havent explained. What are those meaning. It has historically always meant and implied the same thing. Just that it is assumed that being a slut is a bad thing.
The difference with 'nigger' is that historically the definition was a type of subhuman.
Ive accepted long ago that people will try to call me names to hurt me. So I like to take an objective look at the situation and see why exactly would I be hurt.
>>17230481
>I definitely don't casually call anyone nigger
>Its a sign that you lack respect for its history to casually use it.
I get that you're not much of a critical thinker but come on anon. I definitely don't casually use it but if it ever comes up I'm not just going to say "the n word". Why should I respect its history? Its history is very evil and hateful, and by pulling this "he who must not be named" bullshit I'm only giving it more power. I'm just saying if no one cared anymore the word would be meaningless. Like I said no word should have that much power.
>>17230501
>That's the connotation
No its part of the definition. Its tricky because definitions change and what things mean as well. But it didnt simply imply that you were subhuman. It meant it. You should really read about how the european world classified other races they met.
Its not 'judemental', it legitimately meant subhuman.
>>17230492
>this really is Autism
I genuinely think OP is autistic, this isn't just social inexperience, this is failing basic analogies and basic human interaction that he should be able to glean from even just watching actors interact on TV or something.
>>17230510
>Why should I respect its history?
that is exactly what is reflected in your use of the word. A reflection I never want to have and am disgusted by.
>>17230512
the analogy simply fails. And tv is not a reflection of human interactions.
>>17230523
Fair enough. But at least I didn't make a post about how I'm confused that my friend is upset after I tried to comfort her by calling her a slut.
>>17230506
They're slurs, you stupid fucking slut-nigger. That's what a slur is. It's a word for a particular kind of person, but with a whole range of implicit meanings -- connotations, as the person above me wrote, all of which are invariably degrading.
'Nigger' means 'dark-skinned person of African descent', but with the implication of subhumanity, even bestiality (in the sense of 'beast-like savagery', not 'sex with animals.') 'Slut' means 'woman who gives up sex easily', but with the implication of uncleanliness, even disease, that this makes the woman in question lesser, deserving of disgust and ridicule.
Open up your dictionary and look up 'nigger.' You won't find "subhuman" anywhere in the definition, nor is it implied anywhere in the word's etymology, but it's an implication the word carries all the same. Likewise, 'slut' also carries a lot of implications meant to degrade. No, they're not as bad as the baggage attached to 'nigger', but they're very bad all the same. How are you still not getting this?
>>17230544
Im not confused as to why shes hurting. and I didnt call her a slut. Im confused as to how I should have and still should handle the situation.
>>17230533
Anon [spoiler]if this isn't a bait thread then[/spoiler] you are literally an idiot. All you are doing is tearing apart these anon's analogies and telling them what's wrong with them instead of putting any effort into understand what they are trying to say. Maybe if you used this kind of thinking more often you could understand what you did wrong. It's VERY fucking obvious.
>>17230564
I'm starting to question whether this is a bait thread as well. If it is, well, it got me good.
>>17230548
I dont need a dictionary when you have college. You simply havent read first hand accounts of how races were categorized.
By not being white you were subhuman. It is the same as how being human is part of the the definition of being a european. It wasnt originally a slur. Because that would have implied you are actually referring to people you were calling it which they did not believe.
I am >>17230564 (who fucked up that spoiler dammit)
Anon you did call her a slut though, you literally said that "slut was an accurate word" to describe her. Just because you didn't directly say "you are a slut" doesn't mean that you can't pretty directly imply it like you just did. She got it, why can't you?
>>17230576
>I dont need a dictionary when you have college.
>>17230251
>B-but you are a slut! I'm technically right!
>Where are you going?
>Explain how my characterization is inaccurate!!
Human relationships don't work this way.
>>17230577
Yes we both get that the definition of the word slut encompasses her. But I dont understand the point you are trying to make.
>>17230576
>I dont need a dictionary when you have college.
>>17230586
Common case you see people make.
>I googled the definition of a [insert advanced scientific concept] so I know exactly what it is
Its idiotic.
>>17230360
how's about you avoid that word around women you care about anon. you pleb/
>>17230594
Yeah there is no hope for you if you don't understand at this point.
>>17230605
I was directly confronted. I didnt bring anything up and wouldnt have even talked about it if she didnt directly ask.
>>17230606
thanks...
>>17230613
Anon really though explain to me why this confuses you. You don't argue the semantics and meanings of words when your friend comes to you for comfort, especially if that word was used to hurt her.
>>17230632
So you lie?
>>17230638
Have you never heard of people lying just so they won't someone's feelings? I agree it can be bullshit sometimes and others people will want your genuine opinion but still. Even if you are right, I don't know why you can't understand that it upset her.
Okay OP. Found in the wiktionary, definition of nigger :
>(now offensive, ethnic slur, now vulgar, see usage notes) A dark-skinned person, especially a person of, or primarily of, Negro descent; a black person.
Now there is no insult in that, is there ?
And yet you wouldn't call a black person a 'nigger'.
That's why you shouldn't say your friend is, by definition, a slut and imply she is one by saying so.
>>17230657
I didnt inquire about what made her upset. I accepted that as her being unreasonable. I dont see what I did wrong though. If lying is the only alternative I cant really fault myself.
>>17230576
Have you ever heard the phrase 'not even wrong'?
It isn't a compliment.
Man, assuming you're not a troll, in order to tell you where you're going wrong, I'd have to address about a dozen assumptions and misconceptions you're carrying around, essentially giving you a sparknotes-level background in historical linguistics and the philosophy of language. I don't feel like doing any of that, and I doubt you'd actually listen. So I'll keep it brief: you think you understand a lot more than you do about language and history, and what you do understand of them is very superficial.
Now, this is the situation.
You: A socially-inept undergrad who accidentally called his best friend a slut when she came to him for reassurance and then came to 4chan to ask "Am I Wrong?"
Everybody else: A sizable handful of people who've taken the time out of your days to tell you, "Yes, You're Wrong."
Here's what you should do now:
Accept that you're wrong even though you're not really sure why yet, bow out of this thread graciously, and go and apologize to your friend. Tell her you were wrong, you were getting stupidly hung up on what you thought the word meant without taking into consideration what it meant to HER, that of course you don't think she's a slut, and you're just sorry that you didn't just say that right from the get-go.
Or you can keep bumbling along and fuck up your friendship. Your call.
>>17230251
ITT: Autist meets slut and fails 2 catch her hints.
>inb4 OP was her next mark and she actually wanted to have sex with him
lmaoing @ ur life OP
>>17230666
If that was what the word meant and always meant I wouldnt have a problem with it. But it implies that a "black person" is a person and not subhuman.
>>17230670
>what you do understand of them is very superficial.
Man better give my degree back. Some guy on the internet thinks he knows more than me from google.
>>17230670
>Accept that you're wrong even though you're not really sure why yet, bow out of this thread graciously, and go and apologize to your friend. Tell her you were wrong, you were getting stupidly hung up on what you thought the word meant without taking into consideration what it meant to HER, that of course you don't think she's a slut, and you're just sorry that you didn't just say that right from the get-go.
A bunch of people saying lie isnt really anything of merit. Im not a liar. I fault myself heavily when I do lie and it hunts me all the time. I never called her a slut But if you ask me if the definition encompasses her then it does.
Again, Im asking for an alternative way of handling this. If all options were wrong then can you really say any of them are. Lying isnt really what I was looking for when I made this thread.
>>17230690
Oh come on, are you really so prideful that you can't just admit you were wrong? It doesn't matter how much of an "expert" you are or aren't you can still fuck up. Just accept it and move on.
>>17230706
I will gladly admit I am wrong when I believe I am. Not because you said so.
>>17230680
Yes ! It is the key word 'implies' !
In general it can be overlooked since not every person interprets what you say ; but in that case, of social matter, even a not quite smart person would take it as an insult.
>>17230706
The more I read this the more I see how ridiculous interacting with you has been. You believe that you are right simply because you cant imagine being wrong and that anyone who disagrees is just to prideful to be enlightened by you. Its actually cracking me up now.
>>17230720
I dont think you understood what I said and what you are saying.
>>17230713
Well you better start believing brother. Also why do you seem to think that her being upset over you basically saying she is a slut is an overreaction but
>Now she hates all men and says all men as hypocrites and I told her thats now true and how men are divided on this
isn't.
>>17230690
I have to know, what are you claiming your degree is in?
>>17230713
>>17230721
Are you two both OP? Also:
>You believe that you are right simply because you cant imagine being wrong and that anyone who disagrees is just to prideful to be enlightened by you.
Pot meet kettle.
>>17230729
I never said what I went to undergrad for. But if it helps you guess it was a liberal arts school.
>>17230727
I never said it wasnt. But she clearly doesnt hate men and I wouldnt be too surprised if in the near future she hooked up with one. Though given the current circumstance she might hesitate from fear of backlash.
>>17230740
Well, it wasn't linguistics or history, that much I can say. I actually have formally studied both of them; you have not. Not that a degree necessarily makes you an expert in something, but it's obvious when somebody has no real fluency with a subject and is trying to talk themselves up.
>>17230769
those are quite the assumptions you made there. Im sure you have a degree when the dictionary is your go to for history lol.
>>17230776
The only one who's made any claims about history -- or its relevance here -- is you.
I'm saging this, obviously, this discussion is going nowhere fast at this point.
>>17230810
Which is why its clear the only thing you formally studied is google lol.
>>17230816
Your explanation for how 'slut' and 'nigger' qualitatively differ was a non-sequitur. Irrespective of their histories, the words mean what they do today, and you literally haven't even addressed that, just responded with a (oversimplified, wrongheaded) explanation for why you'd never call anyone a nigger, which, of course, no one here is asking you to do.
>>17230251
I don't know about the rest of you guys but this whole exchange sounds too hilarious to be true
>>17230375
Technically woman have been treated as second class humans for longer than white people have even known black people exist. Parring girls for sleeping around has been common practice since the dawn of civilisation.
>>17230251
All this arguing about semantics is pointless. OP actually isn't completely wrong on this. If a friend approached me saying everyone was calling them an asshole, and they are an asshole, I would tell them that they should either work on not being an asshole or hang out with people who don't mind.
Lying isn't the answer here. The main problem is that your "general populace" argument is shitty. If you think she's a slut, but don't have a problem with that, then you should have started out by telling her you don't think there's anything wrong with being a slut.
If she needs to be around people who don't like that she's a slut, tell her to be more discreet about it.
False comfort, like most seem to be recomending, wouldn't help her in the long run.
>>17230251
Unfortunately we live in a time where Girls can fuck whomever they want as many times as they want, and no one is allowed to call them out on it.
If she's sleeping with various partners all the time, she is indeed a slut by definition. I have a friend who fucks random guys on dating apps a few times a week. She even got on birth control so they can cum inside her. But no one can tell her what she's doing is wrong.
You did the right thing as a friend. But society frowns upon you telling her the truth and calling her out on her promiscuity thanks to the age of sjw's.
>>17230251
I mean the term slut gets thrown a lot around here for women who like to have regular casual sex
And while that is the definition I think it should change a bit because slut implies you are somehow dirty or impure.
You know? Like casual sex is a lot different than someone who literally will screw everyone and the kitchen sink.
If you or someone you know is being slut shamed though try to uplift them rather than put them down? No real reason to make someone feel bad about wanting to feel good
>>17230976
I mean does it really matter how many times they have sex. Fucking just about anything that moves is one thing, but just because a woman is a little promiscuous doesn't mean that that's a bad thing. Even then as long as they're safe does it really matter?
>>17231148
I think it depends on how it comes about. I could give a shit if my gf slept with 3 guys or 30 guys before she got with me. Everyone has a past.
But that friend if mine shares her stories and talks about it like it's something to bee proud of.
Male or female, I think your sex life should be kept to yourself or to share with your partner. Not around the dinner table with friends.
