>used to be loved almost as much as the Freeza arc
>now almost universally hated
What happened?
>>140760591
>universally hated
Stop.
i liked it if just the feeling of closure
>goku dies and passes the mantle to gohan
>vegeta gives up being a warrior
>piccolo and kami fuse, bringing their entity back as a whole
>old ass kami gets replaced with dende as the guardian of earth
>androids had been around since red ribbon saga, with android #8 you'd expect there to be more
things i didn't like
>everyone's super saiyan now lmao
>humans completely discarded
>the only reason cell was a threat was because everyone was acting retarded when they had so many chances to kill him or bar him from becoming perfect
>gohan turning super saiyan 2 surprised no one
>all the androids were pretty fucking boring
it's when the powerlevel and beam spam gotten really cancerous
at least Frieza arc had some creativity
>>140761655
this
but I'd also throw in the future Trunks parts. Especially that episode where he gone back to the future with SS2 powers and just fucked over the androids.
>>140760591
>used to be loved almost as much as the Freeza arc
>>140760591
People realized that it was the most poorly written arc, alongside Buu, in the entire manga.
Watching beginning of buu saga right now. So good. Cell saga was boring. Fun in the beginning. I'm watching Kai btw..
Its the most serious arc, and the current opinion on DB is that its not supposed to be serious.
>>140761655
>androids had been around since red ribbon saga, with android #8 you'd expect there to be more
I don't think anyone watching the series in order thought "damn, there's just GOTTA be more of these things that we literally only saw one of early on. They're just so important!"
>>140763479
The entire series is poorly written. Strong writing was never a reason why people liked DB, so why are we all of a sudden going to pretend that bad writing is completely unacceptable for any particular saga?
>>140764988
Because some parts are written worse than others
22nd TB - Freeza is actually pretty solid
>>140764443
well no, but their sudden appearance wasn't completely an asspull
>>140763479
It just gets very, very boring once Cell started voring cyborgs. As a kid I remember friends going nuts when Gohan killed Cell, watched the episode and it was as dull as it was anticlimatic, it's like Gohan for some reason turned into the biggest retard magnet ever.
>>140760591
You mean universally hated on /a/
Outside nobody cares.
>>140760591
>What happened?
You visit /a/, contrarian faggot central.
>>140760752
Is this NTR?
>>140766157
No, it seems like pretty much everyone hates the arc now save for some fags on Youtube who've only watched clips of the show.
It feels even more hated and reviled than the Buu saga at this point, and about on par with GT and Super's reception.
>>140765139
>Because some parts are written worse than others
So? That still doesn't explain why people chose to care about DB's writing only after the Freeza arc.
Dragon Ball's appeal is action and humor. Not quality story-telling. At it's best, DB was simply average in terms of story.
>>140768542
There are arcs where comedy, action, and good story telling are at play.
There arcs where only good action is at play, with minimal instances of good comedy or story telling.
I think that qualifies the latter parts as being weaker parts of the story overall. That's why writing quality can be relevant to a DB discussion, even though writing quality is not what makes the series stand out among other anime/manga.
And all of that is consistent with still enjoying the hell out of the Cell arc.
>>140768427
not that anon, but I'd personally place Cell and Buu on par with one another
a comfortable tier above GT and Super, which I presently find to both be overall mediocre with some relatively rare pockets of goodness
>>140768797
>good story telling
It told it's story, yeah, but the story it had to tell was never very compelling, interesting, or well-thought out. And Z largely ditched the comedic aspect of DB way before the Cell arc, so that's something people should have gotten used to at that point. The action got significantly more bland and samey as well by the time the Saiyans arrived.
Dragon Ball might have a "sum of its parts" thing going for it, but Z was never good. And yet people act like the Cell arc was the first time the series descended into atrocity just because they didn't like the decisions characters were making. (I'm not defending the Cell arc in terms of writing quality, mind you. It's awful just like the rest of Z.)
It all seems extremely hypocritical, and just a bunch of nostalgiafags who were exposed to the Saiyan/Namek arcs more spouting out a bunch of nonsense.
>>140760752
why
>>140769193
The manga didn't have a DB/Z cutoff point. That seems to only be brought up as a post hoc justification for Toei's autism. It couldn't have been Toei's autism, because the manga wasn't balls deep into how far it would wind up diverging yet.
"Z" still had the Afterlife and the Ginyu Force for comedy at that point, a team up between the two strongest people on the planet who are also enemies (and the first to have a 'bad guy team up' as a plot point), Goku getting to complete his arc by finding out his history and coming to terms with it (culminating in fulfilling his race's ancient prophecy and defeating the guy who destroyed said race), learning Kami's backstory (and thus the Dragon Balls themselves), that three way race for the Dragon Balls on Namek (including Vegeta's gorilla warfare), and overall a bunch of fucking team fights.
Afterwards though? Freeza just comes right back, and after a logical progression of world expanding they try to bring it back to Earth with a random returning enemy (RR Army). Everyone's a Super Saiyan, and it's all 1v1 fights for the most part from here on out.
Plot induced stupidity is fucking everywhere, Toriyama was constantly just changing the villains due to pressure from others, and the plot just takes a full 180 to put Gohan in the seat of focus, only to full 180 do it in reverse in the Buu arc. The Kid Buu fight itself just happens for no good reason.
Also the Cell arc's sole attempt at comedy was Mr. Satan when Mr. Satan wasn't funny. Bad story and humor? If it only has action to stand on, then it's a weaker arc to me than bipeds and tripeds.
>>140770075
I know it's all called Dragon Ball in the Japanese manga, I just use DBZ when referring to the second-half of DB.
Each arc in Z pre-Buu had only one thing to fal lback on for humor once things got going. In the Saiyan arc, it was the Afterlife. In the Freeza arc, it was the Ginyu Force. In the Cell arc, it was Mr. Satan. I don't know why you're acting like the Cell arc is the only one guilty of this, even if you didn't find Mr. Satan funny. (I didn't find anything in any of these arcs to be funny, but whatever.)
The Saiyan/Freeza saga explored backstories and introduced plot points that nobody was asking for beforehand, and what was given to us was extremely barebones and largely uninteresting.
The Cell arc had just as much "story" as the Freeza arc, if not moreso. It wasn't a good story, no, but neither was Freeza arc's. Bringing it back to Earth is not an inherently bad thing, especially after how boring Namek as a planet was, and Gero was no more random than Raditz. Everyone being a Super Saiyan is pretty much like how everyone learned the Kamehameha in DB so quickly despite the legends behind it, so this shouldn't be that huge of an issue since you guys were perfectly okay with Kamehameha whoring. And 1v1 fights? The fights that made up 90% of action scenes in all of DB beforehand? Why is that now all of a sudden bad?
Cell and Buu arcs were awful and they had their issues, but guess what? The Saiyan/Freeza arcs were awful too, and even DB Part 1 had a lot of stupid (and not the good kind of stupid) writing in its arcs. This idea that bad writing started with the Cell arc is dumb, and brought up by people who were either massive Freeza fanboys or people who grew up with the Saiyan/Namek arcs more than any other arc.
>>140760752
DELETE THIS
>>140770800
>I don't know why you're acting like the Cell arc is the only one guilty of this, even if you didn't find Mr. Satan funny.
Because I found 2/3 funny. It's about as simple as that.
>The Saiyan/Freeza saga explored backstories and introduced plot points that nobody was asking for beforehand
Goku still doesn't know that he's the one who killed his grandpa, so that's a somewhat dark thread to leave hanging. Kami told Yamcha that he's an alien during the 23rd TB.
I think you'd have to survey what in-order watchers thought around that point in the story in order to say that nobody was asking certain questions.
And I agree, it ultimately wasn't incredibly necessary, but it was a good point of closure for Goku as a whole. After that it only continued to become more extraneous. There was an increasing degree of unnecessary story arc creation. Saiyan and Freeza may not have been necessary, but they were far less excessive than Cell and Buu were.
>It wasn't a good story, no, but neither was Freeza arc's.
It's not binary, it's a matter of degree.
>Bringing it back to Earth is not an inherently bad thing
After how much growth there had been, it didn't feel like a natural way to expand the story. Freeza had a crazy amount of power creep, I would concede even to a fault. Never said it was perfect. The power jumps in that arc are fucking ridiculous. Goku and Freeza's fight destroys the planet that they're fighting on.
Afterwards though? They're supposed to get even stronger, and yet not accidentally destroy fucking everything. Like taking a bad quality and making it worse.
>Everyone being a Super Saiyan shouldn't be that huge of an issue since you guys were perfectly okay with Kamehameha whoring.
I kinda see the comparison, but there's a difference in degree. Super Saiyan was way more hyped up and represented the culmination of a character arc.
>1v1 fights
Teaming up is a logical progression when the world is at stake.
