Whats /a/ thoughts on this character?
Personally I think he did nothing wrong.And one, if not the most, human character of all time.
>>140342096
A very human and tragic character for sure, honestly the best protagonist to have ever graced the Fate series.
SIX
BILLION
PEOPLE
A retard who while not wrong in principle, was fucking himself over to the point of going insane because he'd choose to save one more person out of 1 million people, even if the one one with one less person had his family in it.
I understanding trying to save the most, but i also know that i'd put the ones i care for above unknown people, no matter how cold that might seem. His entire angst and trying to repent were because he was too much of an idiot to decide on what he truly wanted.
I don't blame him for his wife though, she was a sacrifice from the start, and there wasn't really anything he could do for her. Aside from using his assistant to cheat on her to try to distance himself from her so he could go through with it more easily, and using everyone else has his pawns.
>>140342096
Manchild with martyr complex, did plenty wrong and then got melancholic afterwards. He was ungrateful cunt and asshole, also extreme utilitarist. In short Kerry was nicely written shithead.
>>140342716
>honestly the best protagonist to have ever graced the Fate series.
Secondary detected.I like Kerrytsugu, but I find Shirou far more interesting.
>>140342096
>if not the most, human character of all time.
I suppose it depends on how you define "human" but really?
>>140342096
His son is a much much better character. I found Kerry really boring.
Kiritsugu is the last character you truly understand in Fate.
After reading the VN you've gone through Shirou's mind and got to feel attached to Kiritsugu. That's why you should finish with F/Z. It's just powerful that way.
But then again if there's something that can get close to it that's Strange Fake.
>>140344049
That's exactly how I view Shirou.From character design till his personality.
>>140342096
I love Kerry but he's a retarded edgelord. Shirou is a much better character by the way.
>>140342096
He tried his best but he fucked up. There's something sad and sympathetic about him, made me think of myself
>>140343719
>>140344049
That's it, we're comparing the indisputable protagonist of not one but three routes on a doorstoper with a character from third person narrated LN series that isn't even focused on him for the most part.
>>140345507
where did he fuck up
In not accepting that he couldn't save everyone and killing his grail wife?
>>140345714
more that the way it ended wasn't what he intended. that's not really his fault though is it? I dunno
>>140345714
In relying on end results too much. Objectively speaking, his ideals aren't worse than anyone else's, but in placing all his hopes on the outcome he came out a broken mess even though he just made a mistake in not blowing up the grail correctly.
>>140345859
I think it is his fault to an extent
trying to find the most objective way to be a hero, saving the most people
His obsession with objectivity is what lead him to kill those closest to him. Even if the end result did save more people, it did not matter because evil still persisted
But he followed his ideal form of heroism.
I feel like Shirou succeded that dream far better than his dad. Shirou learned to accept being a slave to the grail and saved within his own capabilities
I feel before the big fire accident Kiritsugi was not in terms with accepting his powerlessness
He was put in the worst possible position, staying with a "corrupted" version of loving wife and daughter or the lives of around a billion or so people
>>140342096
You want my opinion? I'll tell you. This man may possibly be the fucking greatest protagonist in any anime I've ever seen.
>Based
>Has a hot wife
>Has a hot partner
>Fucks them both
>Doesn't give a fuck about magic rules
>Fuck your chivalry
>Fuck your nobility
>Fuck you
Emiya Kiritsugu: Genuine Badass
>>140343719
What exactly might it be that makes shirou more interesting than him?
>>140347338
>inb4 "beautiful ideals"
>inb4 "nature of heroism"
>inb4 wrongful correctness
>inb4 swords
>Episode 1
Literally says the line "Kotomine Kirei frightens me." A main character who is scared of his rival, wow so edgy. I've never seen anything edgier than a scared guy. All he does in the episode is talk about Kirei and summon Saber.
>Episode 2
Shown playing with his kid and calls her his princess. All he does in the episode is make her a promise.
>Episode 3
Iri tells Saber that Kiritsugu showed her the outside world. Kiritsugu has a scene with Maiya. And even though he's showing off his weapons he still gets emotional by the mere thoughts of his daughter. Wow, how edgy. He's concerned about his kid. Nothing edgier than that.
>Episode 4-5
Was going to kill Lancer's master. (Put himself in a perfect position and gives orders to Maiya. Wow, a protag using tactics instead of just spouting the word justice and getting saved by everyone around him. Wow.) Doesn't really succeed. A main character who fails, how edgy.
>Episode 6
Again trying to kill Lancer's master and failing. Pretended to be Kayneth, set up explosives and gives orders to Maiya. (A protagonist using tactics instead of just blushing about girls and recklessly charging into combat, great. A character that uses his brain, how edgy.
>Episode 7
Kiritsugu tells Iri and the others about his plan. Literally had a city map and was asking if anyone questioned him. A protagonist that makes plans instead of just talking about justice over and over again and blushing about girls.
Then he talks with his wife about how he's scared of Kirei and how he's already sacrificing her and Ilya. HE LITERALLY WANTED TO RUN AWAY from the Holy Grail War. Wow, a scared guy. How edgy. His wife was the one that had to talk some sense into him.
>Episode 8
He fights Lancer's master. He's fighting a guy that's trying to kill him. He's fighting in a war, I guess this is edgy somehow.
>Episode 9-13
These episodes flesh out other characters.
>>140347534
>Episode 14
Shoots a child murderer. He killed a child murderer so he's edgy.
>Episode 15
Cooperates with others to take down an enemy. How edgy.
>Episode 16
Eliminates the Lancer team. He eliminated someone in the grail war, so I guess he's edgy.
>Episode 17
Kirei kills Rin's father. I guess this means Kiritsugu is edgy somehow.
>Episode 18
Kiritsugu backstory. Showed how scared and weak he was. So edgy.
>Episode 19
Kiritsugu backstory. More tragedy, but Kerry learned from his mistake. Episode ends with him sobbing loudly because he just killed his mother. This is clearly edgy. Nothing is edgier than a man crying.
>Episode 20
Kiritsugu concerned for Maiya/Iri orders Saber to defend them. This is obviously edgy.
And HE CRIES AGAIN. All Kiritsugu does is cry. So edgy.
>Episode 21
Kirei and Gilgamesh drink whine while watching a woman get choked to death. Clearly, this means Kiritsugu is edgy.
>Episode 22
Kiritsugu is trying to come up with plans and Saber apologizes to him. Irisviel says "he can't help but love others despite knowing he'll lose them."
Kirei chokes Iri, which means Kiritsugu is edgy.
>Episode 23-24
Kerry fights Kirei. Grail tests him, and he chooses the greater good over everything. Even his family.
>Episode 25
He saves Shirou and adopts him.
>>140347534
>>140347579
Why is Shirou the protag again?
>redhead
>fucks a ghost
>fag
He aint 1/100 of what Kiritsugu is, yet hes a fan favorite.
????
>>140342096
I have zero sympathy to anyone willingly join the stupid summoner battle royal.
Kiritsugu was a manchild. I can see why /a/ would love him so much.
Pretty alright tragic character "primaries" hate to feel cool.
>>140347959
The same applies to Shirou.
>>140347338
Justification to his character and ideals, early realization of the impossibility of his dream, being a sicko, not beaing a cheating manwhore, not being a manchildren (for most of the routes), bein able to reach 3 different viable and human answers to his struggles etc.I like Kerry tho, he's just less complex than shirou and sadly is idolatred by retarded secondaries for being edgy
>>140342096
he's not very smart and never even came close to accomplishing anything of worth in his life that didn't involve Yakuza
>>140348099
The difference between Shirou and Kiritsugu is that Shirou understands that you can't save everyone. He fights against that logic with everything they have, but he starts out with this knowledge and always comes to terms with it by the end. He rejects something as childish and silly as a magical wish-granting machine, never being tempted to use it to achieve his goal. Shirou always comes to understand and accept the impossibility and contradictions of his ideals, so while he always puts forth 100% into everything he does, he never expects the world to move in accordance to his wishes.
Kiritsugu, however, never figured that out. He wanted to save everyone, and when the world refused to conform to his ideals, he basically threw a tantrum. He never came to terms with that reality. He rejected reality for what it was and tried to substitute it with his own. He sought the Holy Grail, a ridiculous magical object that magically grants wishes in the hopes that he'd basically be able to conform reality to his wishes. It's purely a child's mentality: the world doesn't behave the way you want so you decide to MAKE it behave the way you want. It's a completely ridiculous notion, and only the most childish, egotistical fool would ever attempt such a thing.
He's a retard who sacrificed literally everything. Including things he didn't have to sacrifice.
God damnit, he even sacrificed his own goal (or rather discarded it) because why the fuck not?
>>140348340
>It's a completely ridiculous notion, and only the most childish, egotistical fool would ever attempt such a thing.
Give him a break, he's been through shit and truly believed that something as magical as the grail, rumored to get to the root of all magic, would have the feat to make that impossible wish come true
It's the only reason he entered the war
It's the only reason anyone enters the war
>>140348993
It's not why Shirou entered the war. He thought the Grail was a stupid piece of bullshit from the moment Kotomine explained what it was to him. He never wanted anything to do with that trash. The only reason he joined was to perform damage control and make sure the others didn't cause too much damage, and maybe win the Grail for Saber because she wanted it even if he didn't.
Rin also didn't care that much about the war. She just wanted to win. Which arguably makes her the most childish participant in the entire thing, but I digress.
Even then, you know, wanting to use the Holy Grail to force world peace is a silly concept. It'd be better if he was after it purely for selfish motives, or at the very least, something a bit smaller in scale than worldwide mental conditioning.
>>140348340
The first, second and third war gave an uncorrupted wish to the winner why the 4th shouldn't?(correct me if im wrong).He had only 1 chance he had to gave it a try.
>>140349270
A protagonist devoid of goals and ambitions except damage control and helping others, how selfless, how noble. Why do you primaries always have such a shit taste?
>>140345558
Fate/Zero has a VN.
>>140349332
None of the previous Grail Wars ever had a proper conclusion. Scratch that, none of the Grail Wars have EVER had a proper conclusion. Even in Fate/EXTRA, the protagonist is unable to achieve a real wish of his/her own due to being a digimon.
>>140349396
Because there are few things more selfish than brainwashing everyone into acting how you want them to act.
The funny thing is the Grail wouldn't have been able to grant Kiritsugu's wish even if he did win it and it wasn't corrupted. The Grail can only grant a wish if the wisher actually knows how the wish would work. Kiritsugu had absolutely no idea how to achieve world peace, so the Grail wouldn't have known either. So all those people he killed would have died for nothing and he'd be left with nothing but a cup that he didn't know how to use.
>>140349332
Previous Wars never had winners. They all killed each other by the end
>>140349396
>A protagonist devoid of goals and ambitions except damage control and helping others
That was also Kiritsurugi
Except Kiritsurugi's flaw was that he was an extremist.
But I like Kiritsugi for that flaw, he was a very interesting hero. A any means necessary type of person
Shirou learned to cope with his ideals and limitations in the UBW route
>>140348340
tl;dr, no. Shirou is insane. Kerry was desperate. Shirou did things in spite of the reality. Kerry did things because of the reality.
Kerry was the greater conformist; he acknowledged the truths of the world, that his dream requires sacrifices to accomplish (which is confirmed by EMIYA, who was enforced to kill few to save the many). He was a conformist to the end that he ultimately hoped change the state of matters. He had to do evil to rid of all evil. Unfortunately the grail was evil.
Shirou is anti-conformist. He knows truths and then says he doesn't give a shit. He's going to do things his way regardless of the consequences. His is a dream borrowed after traumatic experience to keep living while Kerry's is a simple childhood dream that was fueled by traumatic experiences.
>the world doesn't behave the way you want so you decide to MAKE it behave the way you want
That's the attitude you have if you actually want to change things. Kerry couldn't get what he wanted normally so he had to trust in godly power to get it.
>>140349548
So what you're saying is that he was humanly flawed, he dreamed of he wanted to achieve, he did everything he could to reach it, despite not knowing how to reach his goal or even if he could. Kiritsugu, is flawed and sympathetic because of his struggle, because of his ambition and even after giving it his all and even more, he failed, that makes him much more human.than shirou could ever be.
>>140349829
Kiritsugu wanted to strip humanity away of free will. I have no sympathy for an anti-free will faggot. In any other story, he'd be a villain.
Also, Shirou not being human is kind of the point of his character.
Soon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7jNS3ogMYw
>>140349898
That is assuming we had free will to begin with? Don't be delusional, we all run on a pre-programmed set of impulses and mechanisms, our consciousness is only an awareness of our desires. Free will is a mere lie and a fabrication our super ego imposed upon us to justify their own existence. So what if we had our internal program, re programmed to achieve world peace. We'd still be exactly who we are. Except we wouldn't suffer, and we wouldn't be deluded by the illusion of freedom and choice.
>>140349898
>free will
Oh humans
>>140350158
>>140350195
Fuck off Lawfags.
>>140349548
>None of the previous Grail Wars ever had a proper conclusion. Scratch that, none of the Grail Wars have EVER had a proper conclusion. Even in Fate/EXTRA, the protagonist is unable to achieve a real wish of his/her own due to being a digimon.
Why is this shit not told to the participants then?what a bunch of dicks
>So all those people he killed would have died for nothing and he'd be left with nothing but a cup that he didn't know how to use.
Not same anon but thats why he said he needed a miracle from the grail.I mean with all the shit going on in fate universe people coming back to live, zombies/vampires, world peace shouldn't be out of stretch.
>>140350228
Man don't shit on YHVH
>>140350421
It is. It's been confirmed outright by Nasu that the Grail would not have been able to achieve his wish. The thing about zombies and vampires and shit is that in Nasu's world, magi are basically scientists. They figured out how to turn themselves into vampires through their own intelligence and efforts. Or they got bitten by a True Ancestor or other vampire, whatever. Point is they figured out how to do it themselves.
Now, if you actually knew a proper, logical way to achieve world peace, then yes, the Grail would be able to grant that wish. The Grail is basically infinite energy + the ability the shape that energy in any conceivable way. That's the key word here: "conceivable". The problem with Kiritsugu is that he couldn't conceive of a way to achieve world peace. He had no idea. He was hoping the Grail would do all the work for him, but I guess the Einzberns never saw fit to tell him "No, that's really not gonna work at all."
Well this thread turned into FSN vs FZ rather quickly
>>140342096
he saved a life so that redeemed him
shame that life was shirous lol
Shirou kind of beats him in every way possible. He's just a guy who tried his best but didn't put enough thought into his actions, and finally decided to rely on a deus ex machina to grant his wish ( which he didn't know how to realize in the first place )
Kirei's the better character, Kiritsugu's really interesting but in the end he just comes off as childish.
>>140342096
Only Kariya is a main character of the Fate Zero.
>>140352107
Have you heard the drama cd he stars in?
https://youtu.be/wGSz-ZVeJUE
>>140347777
>>fucks a ghost
Secondary, please.
>>140352004
>didn't put enough thought into his actions
No amount of thought would give him what he wanted. Running around killing scum just didn't cut it. Only a wish granting device or some shit would do the trick.
