Utena
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /a/ - Anime & Manga
You are currently reading a thread in /a/ - Anime & Manga
![Shoujo Kakumei Utena - 39.mkv_snapshot_22.52_[2016.07.15_14.37.15].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/DDEnkFW.jpg "Shoujo Kakumei Utena - 39.mkv_snapshot_22.52_[2016.07.15_14.37.15].jpg")
Find a flaw.
No, really.
Everyone goes ga ga over this anime and the easiest thing that people understood was that it was about maturity and that's about as far as they understand it.
Plenty of people understand plenty more than that.
Which has no bearing on whether the show is good or not.
Make up your own mind.
>>144361054
Anthy didn't marry me.
>>144361054
Black Rose was dogshit.
It was boring until Akio got introduced and even he got old.
>muh repetition isn't caused by a shitty budget but by god-tier directing
>>144361054
Having the same 1.30min sequence (you know which one) repeated every episode is just unacceptable.
My biggest complaint is that it's too slow at times and repeates scenes way too fucking much.
Had Utena been 24 tight episodes it would have been a 9/10 for me.
The show is the ultimate example of style over substance.
Nothing is properly explained because lol so deep.
Random things just pop up and people do random actions because lol symbolism.
It's extremely popular and yet anyone who likes it goes "I'm so elitist, haters gonna hate".
>>144361637
You just don't "get it"
The repetition is borrowed from Kabuki and it was to show that everyone involved was just repeating the same actions and failing to grow up.
>>144361809
I actually get it, don't worry. While needed it doesn't mean you have to dedicate an entire episode to each character. I like Ikuhara's directing, but that's just retarded.
>>144361916
But some people like it.
>>144362001
Doesn't make it good.
>>144362001
Exactly, SOME. I'm pretty sure most people are turned off by that.
>>144361322
No they don't, plenty of people even misunderstand it so badly thinking it's about fighting the patriarchy an
>>144361809
This, it was pretty great. I wouldn't cut out a thing.
>>144362071
It doesn't make it bad either.
>>144362095
So?
>>144361809
I really love the repetition of scenes in the show, I think it was a clever use of the low budget, but it still is a product of the budget more than Ikuhara's creativity.
Also, Black Rose was awesome to get to know more the characters, but its contribution to the story could have been better.
It's still my favourite anime though.
>>144362249
People commonly cite the Black Rose arc as a low point, but it has some of my favorite moments in the show.
>>144362249
Repetition is a thing in all of Ikuhara's works though.
Just throwing out standard reviewer complaints.
The plot isn't engaging enough.
The story did not give the viewers any reason to care about the characters.
>>144362401
This.
Yeah, I understand the duels had some underlying symbolism but why should I give a fuck when the plot is nothing but duel after duel until Akio?
Not to mention the only interesting character was Akio, I couldn't care less about the other faggots. They're so forgettable and dry.
>>144362200
>So?
If most people are turned off by that, it means it is what most people perceive as a flaw, nothing more, nothing less.
Liking it or not is subjective.
>>144362366
Repetition is something that can be portrayed very differently, Utena's repetition problem from my perspective is that it looks more cheap than clever.
As I said, I believe they could have cut on the episode number, and since Ikuhara knows his shit, I don't think the series would have suffered.
>>144361054
Akio never fucked Tsuwabuki.
>>144362401
Utena is one of the few anime where I actually care about the characters. Most of them were multidimensional.
>>144361054
Boring, unrewarding experience. Dropped at episode 18 or so as various aspects I initially liked about the show got stale and repetitive and I no longer cared if anything is going to be explained at the end, it's just too long.
>>144362554
A flaw means that a show is bad.
Not liking it means that it has a flaw.
flaw=bad
>>144362545
Seriously? The side characters have a ton of material and development addressing them compared to Akio.
>>144362554
Even if it was a result of the budget, it was intentional. A show that makes the best creative use out of budget issues only makes it better, likeEvangelion.
>>144362652
>multidimensional
But the whole point of the show was that everyone in the school is trapped there by their immaturity, that they keep doing the same things and ends it with a half-baked resolution then goes back to the status quo.
Do any of the people who are complaining about the repetition watch seasonal shows?
>>144362770
They can still have a lot going on though.
>>144362711
A show needs to have plenty of flaws before being classified as bad. 99% of series have flaws, whether they are big, reoccurring and the impact on the experience determines their importance.
>>144362716
Man, I love Eva, but while original 25+26 were not planned (as evident from the storyboards), the tower sequence, the room sequence in the black Rose arc, the car sequence in Utena are cuts were the re-use was clearly planned. If you repeat a scene with the exact same cut as much as Utena did you can't expect everyone to like it.
>>144362779
I watch all kinds of shows, not just seasonals.
I don't mind the concept of repetition per se, but I can't see the use of the same cuts for so many times as not lazy.
>>144362711
>this is what millennials actually believe
Thank you, Common Core.
>>144363012
But the repetition is also cool. The elevator sequence is stylish, and has an impact when it stops.
Aside from looking cool, it also has a variety of meanings on different levels of the show. That's why it's not bad.
>>144363062
>people believe that if a large(arbitrary) number of people like/don't like something, then they're supposed to like/not like it accordingly
What has democracy done.
Individuals makes decisions based on the opinions of masses instead of having their own subjective thought.
>>144363319
It's boring and it has no meaning, you just came up with that to try to reason why it's there.
That's why it's bad.
>>144363397
What shows do you like?
>>144361054
Kozue doesn't suck my dick IRL.
>>144363528
That's weird, it happened when I watched it.
>>144363319
I love the elevator sequence, my complaint is not in the event itself, but the same cut being used at least 20 times in the series.
If a moment is really important you can convey it with different visuals (point of view, colors, movements, etc) in a way that engages the viewer, making him reflect on different aspects of that moment, not wanting to skip it.
Using the exact same scene works 2, 3, 4 times, not 20, especially in a show that has the ambitions of direction that Utena has.
>>144363481
What does it matter, Utena is a bad show.
The fact that you used a reaction image from KlK only reinforces that your taste is shit.
>>144363397
Well done anon
>>144363599
You must have liked Endless 8.
>>144363625
>>144363692
Endless 8 was great.
>>144363692
I skipped 5 episodes of that, but an Endless 8 thing would have worked way better than what we had in Utena.
>>144363341
People have always had collectivist tendencies. Democracy is actually a result of individualistic ideals.
>>144363599
But that wouldn't be the same thing. That would be a different scene every time, not the same one.
The point is that it's the same one.
That's the point.
>>144363751
>an Endless 8 thing would have worked way better than what we had in Utena.
A bold opinion.
>>144363772
I get it, but that doesn't mean it's good.
Also, I didn't say that it needed a different scene at each episodes, just that the repetition can be made a certain number of times before becoming boring and lazy.
>>144363817
Really? Would you prefer to watch the same exact thing over and over again? After 2-3 times that goes beyond artistic vision and transcends into lazyness
>>144363928
It doesn't mean its bad either.
>>144363770
But democracy in the modern world has put people in a collectivist mindset, they gather under labels and holds the opinion of their group instead of forming their own.
>>144363928
>Would you prefer to watch the same exact thing over and over again?
If they're as neat as Utena's pre-duel sequences(especially the second one), then yes
>>144363928
Whether it's good or not is besides the point, it was necessary for it to be the exact same thing to convey the message.
>>144363984
No, people have always done that. In fact they used to do it on larger and more arbitrary scales.
>>144364090
You mean something like nationalism?
>>144364154
Religion, nationalism, culture. It's all the same stuff.
>>144361054
It was fucking boring.
>>144361458
>Black Rose was dogshit
it was easily the coolest arc
>It was boring until Akio got introduced and even he got old.
Black Rose. Akio does get a little annoying, though
>>muh repetition isn't caused by a shitty budget but by god-tier directing
It's like you didn't understand that one of the major themes is expressed through repetition and parallels. Obviously a flaw but necessary
>>144363979
Read the OP.
We are talking about the flaws of the show, that's what OP asked. This aspect is a pretty big flaw to ME, it's quite obvious that not everyone agrees, and you are free to judge it as you please.
>>144364016
That's a sequence I really like, but it's advantage is that it is quite short.
I just checked, on episode 15 (a random one) the tower sequence (in it's entirety) lasts 1:45, out of 20min of episode (I'm excluding OP and ED). That's WAY too fucking much.
A FUCKING CAR
Someone explain the last episode to me.
Why did Juri tell that story about the drowned boy?
What was short-haired Akio after all?
Why did the door turn into a coffin and why didn't Utena get the power that can do anything like what Akio tried to do?
>>144361054
Why do people consider this the shoujo equivalent of Evangelion?
>>144364495
Because it is.
Boring as fuck.
>>144364495
Because it's common knowledge that Shinji was an image of Anno while Kaworu was an image of Ikuhara.
Too much filler between episodes and things drag on sometimes, but the ending alone makes up for it.
Solid 9/10 for the series. Haven't watched Adolescence yet.
>>144364580
That's reasonable.
>>144364580
Honestly, it doesn't hold a candle to the series, and the movie format just does not work for the kind of work Utena is.
It's worth a watch just for how crazy it is.
>>144364580
You should watch Adolescence
Today
What did they mean by this?
>>144364580
the movie is just weird
>>144364550
Why is Anno such a faggot for Ikuhara?
>>144361054
Obscene amount of stock footage.
>>144361054
it has no flaws
>>144361637
is symbolism of life itself and anime budget
I liked Penguindrum more
>>144364701
animefags kucced
>>144364472
>Why did Juri tell that story about the drowned boy?
Forgetting the name of the boy is a parallelism of people starting to forget Utena in the school
>What was short-haired Akio after all?
He was the Prince, Akio before becoming corrupt, before becoming an adult.
>Why did the door turn into a coffin and why didn't Utena get the power that can do anything like what Akio tried to do?
Utena gets the power to revolutionize the world, and tries to save Anthy. Anthy is trapped in her role of rose bride and Utena tries to save her, but fails, because Anthy has to free herself.
>>144365139
YKA was better then Penguindrum so that's clearly not true.
>>144365248
Thta's a very bold statement.
You are probably one of the 2 to 5 users on /a/ who believes that.
>>144365370
Well I mainly say that because I found YKA to have better characters, pacing and overall impact on me then Penguindrum did although I'd probably say Penguindrum had better music.
>>144362327
>People commonly cite the Black Rose arc as a low point
What? They do? It's easily the best part. It's literally perfect.
>>144364514
>Not realizing it's Oniisama e
>>144364813
who doesn´t ?
>>144361809
>The repetition is borrowed from Kabuki and it was to show that everyone involved was just repeating the same actions and failing to grow up.
What really? Explain further.
A lot of monster of the week anime do that.
I've always enjoyed MotW a lot.
The repeating elements provide certain cues to the viewer while having a basic framework for each episode actually provides a lot of room for creating juxtaposition by variation of different elements. By using something like this you can invoke some really unexpected reactions or associations and create unusual surrealistic situations. I think Utena uses that pretty well.
>>144365793
lol
>>144366253
That's one of the things I think the show was specifically going off of/deconstructing/self aware of/whatever.
On one level it representative of the ritualistic and cyclical nature of the duels, and on another it's about the same thing the school as a whole is.
>>144365793
In order for something to be the Evangelion of anything, it has to deconstruct it's genre.
Utena fits that description better than Oniisama e.
>>144361054
>it's "Anon thinks the Black Rose Arc is bad" episode
I just don't understand why Akio is controls the whole world and shit
>>144367640
He only controls Ohtori, which exists independently from the rest of the world.
Shit character designs
Shit animation
Several boring as fuck episodes even though the anime is only 39 episodes long
>>144367123
Utena doesnt have the edgy atmosphere.
>>144367884
>Shit character designs
Stopped reading there.
>it's a Nanami episode
>>144361054
Repetitive scenes.
>>144371621
Not a flaw.
>>144368164
Nanami turned out to be a really great character in the end though.
The shadow girls were the best thing about the series
