This man made planes for imperial Japan. Would you call him a villian? Or just a plane nerd who didn't know what he was doing?
In history, when you achieve some degree of hindsight, you realise everyone is a villain.
>>144275635
A true patriot
>Axis
did nothing wrong
>>144275635
Shit, senpai, Fanta was invented by the Nazis cause they couldn't import Coca-Cola. I ain't gonna hold it against them.
Now, if he was actually some imperialist war crime denier guy, which would be kind of a questionable thing given Miyazaki's own opinions on Japan's role in the war, yeah, maybe that story might've been a little self-serving.
Making planes that were used by the Japanese military doesn't make him evil at a least. Don't know about his own beliefs but wasn't he against the war? Or was it just painted that way Ghibli?
>>144275635
He knew that his designs were being used for war, didnt care after he realized everything he did was in some degree being used that way. Took pleasure in the creation and didnt worry about the ends.
>>144275635
So Miyazaki tried to put life into pictures of an era from history schoolbooks, and the most you could get from that is some stupid dichotomy between le evil Nazi scientist and le NPC everyman stereotypes?
> Anime was a mistake.
Either way, he killed millions.
OP, do you wear any adidas or Puma? If so, you support Nazis.
>>144275635
>Would you call him a villian?
>Or just a plane nerd who didn't know what he was doing?
He killed millions. You can't feign ignorance when lives are in your hands.
>>144278288
Yet America does it all the time.
>>144278346
And what is your point?
>two wrongs make a right
>>144275635
The latter.
>axis countries were evil
ebin meme comrades
>>144278288
>He killed millions.
By that logic so did my grandmother who worked in factories that built B-25's and B-24's.
>>144278588
Anyone for your crimes, scum.
>>144278447
The people in those axis death camps probably wouldn't agree with that sentiment.
In real life there are no good or bad guys, just people supporting their nation or not.
Also, he was voiced by Anno.
I really want to watch this after finding out that this ran on ARTE (Franco-German TV sender) recently and how the Japanese government interfered in the production (trying to force Ghibli to implement more "Japan dindu nuffin wrong" and cut out critical stuff), especially in hindsight of Abe's changes to the constitution.
But I rather feel like watching series than films right now...
>>144278588
Now you understand there is no difference, you imperialist scum.
>>144278699
> implying “supporting your nation” is a magic all-explaining phrase and not an invented idea
the current population boom of humanity is rather recent due to the extraction of nitrogen from the soil due to a literal real life mad scientist who was overjoyed at using chemical weapons in warfare.
Stories tend to simplify things into morality tales while reality makes things rather difficult to understand because people have to be adults and get things done and deal with people that they don't want to deal with and do things they don't want to do.
No one will argue that the whole killing part is a good thing but no one will argue about the importance of his work to the future of humanity from that point on.
>>144279002
> No one will argue that the whole killing part is a good thing
[citation needed]
>>144279063
Ok here goes
The killing was good, because of X poltical, philosophical, etc reason, but not because of the killing but because of what it accomplished which was necessary.
Anyone who would argue 'hey you know killing itself is morally okay" is pretty out of bounds from any human ethics perspective. I mean we're basically talking edgelord, joker, or sociopath at this point, do you want them as part of the conversation on ethics?
I guess that was the point of psycho pass though.
>>144278389
Stop being such hypocrites is all I'm saying.
>>144279268
>I mean we're basically talking edgelord, joker,
Even the Joker kills for a reason, not for killing as a means of itself.
>>144277715
>killed millions
American Propaganda everyone
>>144275635
Imperial Japan did nothing wrong
>>144278699
>voiced by Anno
Speaking of which, fucking why? He was awful
>>144279463
>america firebombs japan killing twice the civillains compared to the nukes
>then nukes them
>japan was evil too though!
>remember what they did in china and stuff!
>>144278697
The people in the gulags would call the Soviets evil
The starving Indians would call the British evil
The inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would call the American evil.
Why is WW II the only war where there is a "bad guy" and a "good guy"? There is been countless conflicts in human history, and they always had two sides with questionable ideology.
And it is not like genocide or collateral damage was invented on it either.
4chan will burst
>>144279634
because one side wanted to eradicate most of the human race. It's dark grey vs lighter grey
>>144275709
>In history, when you achieve some degree of hindsight, you realise no one is a villain.
Ftfy
>>144279531
>Speaking of which, fucking why? He was awful
There's some interview that's been posted here before, where Miyazaki is said to have described the main character as introverted and perfectionist kind of like Anno, maybe not too good at communicating -- and he then goes "can't we just get Anno"?
>>144275635
>Or just a plane nerd who didn't know what he was doing?
He knew the risks involved in his work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdDRrcAOjA
>>144276211
I don't think you had to be a pacifist to be against that war, you just needed the slightest bit of foresight, the Japanese Empire was doomed the second the first bomb hit the tarmac of the Pearl Harbor runway.
>He created the airplane - the first OFFICIAL object heavier than air to fly.
>He suicided when he saw airplanes used as weapon of war.
>>144277715
>he killed millions
What, he dropped atomic bombs on America? You learn something every day.
>>144275635
wtf I hate anime and japan now
>>144279689
>one side wanted to eradicate most of the human race
You can't be that deluded. ffs they had the most ethnically diverse army of the time.
What if Nips won the WW2?
>>144275635
There's a reason the Remake is better.
>>144279538
The Japanese viewed themselves as being prepared for fire bombing. Hirohito said himself that the surrender was because in the face of the "enemy's new and most cruel bomb" they would become extinct. The fact is that the U.S. could have
A) Long siege: mass starvation millions dead
B) Operation Down Fall, millions more dead of theirs, hundreds of thousands of ours, mass rape, Berlinification of Japan due to Societ participation.
C) Use the most destructive weapon known to man show the Japanese that they can never win, only die: Thus ending the war almost immideately.
>>144280121
probably would have traded with America, and been the superpower that influenced the world instead of America with a dominance over all southeast asia.
I figure germany would still lose, in the case both won history would be very strange but I can see America becoming an intermeditary between the two because conquering america would be too difficult for either power and they wouldn't be able to split it up.
>>144279899
Thats pretty sad. Is there any books or movies or whatever That I can read specifically on him?
>>144280121
Impossible due to American industrial output.
>>144280337
>>144280337
Which is why I said "What if".
When will japan pay
>>144280121
>>144275635
>he thinks America is the "good guy" in WWII and Japan is the "villain"
That's how you find a dumb blue-pilled burger brainwashed by propaganda
>>144275635
Movies that moralfags will never understand.
>>144280332
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santos_Dumont
The english page is very incomplete.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Santos-Dumont
This man made nuke for USA. Would you call him a hero? Or just a physics nerd who supported red gommies later?
>>144276665
>didnt care after he realized everything he did was in some degree being used that way. Took pleasure in the creation and didnt worry about the ends.
That sounds kind of bad, though I imagine there were others in similar positions.
>>144279538
I think a big part of the difference is that as an American we learn about the nukes and their effects and it's not presented as something to be proud about but as a choice between two evils that ultimately led to the Cold War. In a way as a country we have to live with the fact that we were responsible for the creation of such a weapon and its use and because of that it rests upon our shoulders to ensure that at the least such weapons don't proliferate and that stockpiles of them gradually decrease.
Nothing also stops us from learning about the bad things we did during the war and bringing them to light. In contrast from what little I've gleaned Japan kind of glazes over WW2 and more importantly its crimes.
History is also of course written by the victors.
>>144279634
The US and the Soviet Union coming out of the war as the two superpowers and both being on the same side probably had something to do with it. The US had no real reason not to shit on Germany and the Soviet Union had at least a few. Similarly the Soviet Union really had no reason not to shit on Japan while the US did. I imagine the UK and France weren't happy with Germany either considering the massive devastation as a result of the war both faced.
In comparison WW1 just seems like a bigger version of something that had already been going on for hundreds of years. The countries of Europe pounding their chests and bleating tribalistic nonsense before going to war again.
>>144280332
there were a bunch of scientists who worked on the nuke who killed themselves when it got used.
Pretty sad really, to come up with such a crazy idea and actually make it a reality only to have it be used as a weapon to kill.
>>144280631
I think his life story would make an interesting if a bit sad movie.
>>144279735
There is also a Ghibli/Miyazaki documentary of sorts where I think they actually cover Anno auditioning for the role.
>>144279899
>>144280844
This is what makes me view the guy in the OP apparently not caring and just going on with his work as kind of bad. These people didn't just stop what they were doing, they took their own lives. At the same time I can imagine him doing what he did because something within him broke.
>>144279560
yes, I am not completely foreign to objective morals/perspective. there is no such thing as "good" expansionism, just like there is no "good" child rape. someone suffers for another's gain.
>>144280990
>iew the guy in the OP apparently not caring and just going on with his work as kind of bad
because he didn't kill himself in sadness over how society decided to use his inventions.
I wonder why its all his fault specifically then? Did he make the war happen? Did he build all the planes? Did he mine the iron? Nope, just built a plane. But he killed everyone somehow, its all his fault for just not giving a fuck about the world and having a good time while the rest of the world burned because he played along with his boss's requested to feed himself and his family.
What an asshole. He should have killed himself.
>>144275635
A villain? A plane nerd?
He's my hero, my source of inspiration everyday when I study. I wish I could build a plane as successful al his
>>144279268
> Anyone who would argue 'hey you know killing itself is morally okay" is pretty out of bounds from any human ethics perspective.
As expected. There are more cultures on Earth that aren't based on that idea or preach it without practice than the opposite. There is no universal “human ethics perspective”. For example, suicide due to certain life circumstances is considered shameful in Christian world (both religious and secular), suicide due to certain life circumstances is something to be proud about in Japan, and there is no common ground to compare them with each other.
> I mean we're basically talking edgelord, joker, or sociopath at this point, do you want them as part of the conversation on ethics?
I see that you consider preliminary eradication of argument the best way to keep precious ascertain truth from giving birth to a new one.
The problem is that people who easily find answers like “killing is bad because everyone knows that” aren't very attentive to details, complexities, causes, and outcomes, and to what those “everyone” around them actually do. What might be common ground in case of Miyazaki's film is that you are not less and not more responsible for what happens in the world than its hero.
>>144280800
>its crimes
What crimes? Treating primitives in the Pacific roughly? Fucking child's play, especially for the era.
None of the Axis powers committed crimes on a systemic level. Meanwhile you have Soviets false flagging and raping their way into Eastern Europe, various nations such as Poland abusing Germanic populations in areas granted to them only by the documents that ended WWI, the rest of the European powers declaring war on Germany and Italy simply because they nationalized their banks and kicked the Rothschilds, and we won't even get into the holohoax which was generated from famine and typhus caused by Allied bombing of civilian infrastructure as they razed their way to Berlin. It's all a bit out of order chronologically, but you get the picture about the difference between the globalist and nationalist powers.
Some people like to make claims that there are no good or bad sides in war, and especially in certain wars. However, it is clear which nations fought for righteousness in the case of WWII; it wasn't the victors, who immediately used their victory to destroy the German state, hold mock trials, and invent one of the most pervasive fictions of the modern era in the form of the holocaust. Of course the Chinese followed suit with their narrative about Nanking.
>>144281776
Who let the /pol/ out?
>>144281957
What's the line, "The truth will set you free?"
Guns don't kill people
People kill people
And people died when they are killed
>>144281957
the crossboarder should go back to his shitty /pol/ boardthough nevertheless what he says is pic related
>>144281718
guy you replied to here, I agree with you. Probably a bit hasty in making my argument. Ethical arguments tend to be that way.
>>144275635
>americans
the whole point of the movie was he DID know. And trying to reconcile that with being a pacifist.
What the fug?
Why isn't everyone jumping on the "lets shit all over the axis nations" bandwagon?
People get fired for thinking like that in the western world, you know.
>>144279890
America would have contrived a reason to shitstomp them sooner or later anyway. There was no way they were going to tolerate their expansionism. They just struck with the intent to wipe out the pacific fleet in a sneak attack because they knew it was their only chance, and they wanted to do it while america was preoccupied with the war in Europe. The entire endeavor of expansionism was risky and it didn't pay off in the end, but it was Japan's last stab at relevance as a world power. All they needed to be great was resources, and back then, they wanted to be great.
>>144275635
inb4 500 underage summerfags talking about howOMG XD NAZIS WERE THE BEST i LOVE HITLER XDXDXD exdeefor shock value
>>144279689
>because one side wanted to eradicate most of the human race.
>"these people were scum and the worst most evil people who wanted to do absolutely horrible cartoonishly evil things that no actual people would ever think is okay" t. their enemies, who destroyed them and then wrote the history books about them
>>144282663
but anon, both sides are war criminals but also the hero and the good guys
>>144282571
I think once you get anonymous you really want to play bad guy. Thats why pol loves hitler so much.
>>144282663
see?
>>144282709
Yeah but that was actually the case in hitler's germany. Even if you want to go the whole 'holocaust wasn't really that bad as they say' or 'typhus infection and bombing supply lines killed the most people' they still practiced a super strong federal government which openly discriminated against races, disabilities, and gender.
>>144282782
nah I think everyone got a bit of dick in them its just one guy tends to look better in the end
>>144282782
only the winning side has heroes, the losing side just has mass-murderers
>b-but they didn't commit any war crimes!
well shit, that makes us look bad for killing them then! make something up ya retard!
>>144275635
He designed planes that couldn't land, he supported kamikaze
>>144275635
Of course he didn't know what he was doing, those planes was designed to be used more than once.
>>144278980
> trying to force Ghibli to implement more "Japan dindu nuffin wrong" and cut out critical stuff
I heard it was the opposite: nationalism/imperialism is generally left to /pol/-tier freaks in Japanese society, and some well-meaning fools always raise an alarm when warning stickers totally condemning the pre-war Japanese way are not present on anything remotely relevant to these times. Nazi Miyazaki is a nice joke.
That said, average Japanese is as narrow-minded about foreign countries as average American, and official point of view on WWII is pretty biased and hushed up, so their society overall is a bit more schizophrenic.
>>144280800
> I think a big part of the difference is that as an American we learn about the nukes and their effects and it's not presented as something to be proud about but as a choice between two evils that ultimately led to the Cold War. In a way as a country we have to live with the fact that we were responsible for the creation of such a weapon and its use and because of that it rests upon our shoulders to ensure that at the least such weapons don't proliferate and that stockpiles of them gradually decrease.
> Nothing also stops us from learning about the bad things we did during the war and bringing them to light. In contrast from what little I've gleaned Japan kind of glazes over WW2 and more importantly its crimes.
In other words,
> It's OK to do something bad if you *regret it later*.
> We are the world policeman because we are the best.
I don't think it's hard to see problems with these.
>>144280121
They'd probably have joined nato and the eastern bloc would have been much less of a threat. No North Korea, no communist china being an awful shit disturber to this very day. A lot more of Asia would be modern and first world..
Honestly the more you think about how world war 2 could have ended up, the more you can't help but think we're the ones living in the 'bad timeline'
>>144282860
>they still practiced a super strong federal government which openly discriminated against races
Stop right there heretic scum
you dare to speak out against the sacred United States of America?
>>144282344
I mean if there is one thread where these kinds of facts are relevant, this is it. Especially because the OP even invites people to make a judgement about a man's culpability. If my posts are over the line, the whole thread has to go or it's just an endorsement of the falsification of history by the Allied powers.
I guess I'll even answer his question, though my stance should be obvious. He provided wondrous ingenuity to his nation, an ideal man.
>>144282577
America already had its reason, it had been moving aggressively in the Pacific for awhile and Japan had been on the receiving end of such aggression going as far back as Perry.
>>144282860
>they still practiced a super strong federal government which openly discriminated against races, disabilities, and gender.
And it made the country into a fucking utopia for its citizens. If you think there was any problem with National Socialist Germany, you are a worthless human being. You are either a race traitor or a shitskin, because ethnocentric nationalism has always led to the strongest and most prosperous societies. The only reason to be against such things is because one is an inferior individual who would be excluded by such measures. The jealously of the weak has always been the bane of the strong.
>>144282860
>Yeah but that was actually the case in hitler's germany.
no it wasn't
>openly discriminated against races,
No they weren't. They had nothing against other races in principle, they were simply nationalist and didn't want them in their country
>disabilities, and gender.
Every country was awful to the mentally disabled back then, and sterilizing those with hereditary mental and physical disabilities is something that's hard to argue against other than 'b-but that's eebil!'. And I have no idea why you think nazi germany was sexist in any way more than the standard level of sexism in the 1930s and 40s around the world.
after the pacific war Japan reevaluated itself and has yet to launch another war
America launches a major war every couple of decades
America pushed Japan into a corner before Pearl Harbor - Japan realized they had to take a risk or be americas bitch
>>144282860
> openly discriminated against races, disabilities, and gender.
> gender
You seem to forgot to turn off your auto-pilot. Were women treated better in other countries at the time?
>>144282954
You should probably actually watch the movie and open some encyclopedia.
>>144275635
That's not what villain means.
There's a joke in China today
>If the Japanese had won the war, we would have a totalitarian state today that brainwashed the Chinese people through education, oppressed the people's rights and restricted their very movement within their own lands, put in policies to suppress the population from growing, polluted and exploited the land for natural resources, exploit the cheap labor of the people, keeping them poor while getting filthy rich themselves, and generally being douchebags
>OMG, the Japanese secretly won the war!
>>144283196
> ethnocentric nationalism has always led to the strongest and most prosperous societies
For a certain price, my friend, for a certain price, ho-ho-ho…
>>144283208
> They had nothing against other races in principle
You look like the person who enthusiastically drinks shit because his rose-colored glasses are still on.
Even american WW2 veterans understand it's just a plane. They would even love to fly it themselves, as it was a beautiful machine.
"A restored Mitsubishi Zero fighter took the skies over Japan yesterday for the first time since the end of the Second World War. The iconic fighter, restored to flying condition, flew from a naval air base in southern Japan.
(...)
The test pilot for the flight was retired Lieutenant Colonel Skip Holm, a three time recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross and fighter pilot with more than 300 combat missions during the Vietnam War flying F-105D Thunderchief and F-4E fighters. Holm was also a test pilot for Lockheed's Skunk Works on the F-22 Raptor, F-117 stealth fighter, and U-2R and TR-1 spy planes.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/news/a19156/after-71-years-zero-fighter-flies-again-over-japan/
>>144283424
There's a similar joke about Nazis in Russia.
>>144283515
that's milk he's drinking
Take your shit-colored glasses off, genius
>>144276665
That's retarded. The war wasn't portrayed like evil on their side, why would he even care. There were people using his plane to protect his country and protect himself, fighting and giving their lives. It's the americans who demonized everything about Japan, they even officially sponsored researches to declare them subhumans.
Do you even know about this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead
"During World War II, some members of the United States military mutilated dead Japanese service personnel in the Pacific theater of operations. The mutilation of Japanese service personnel included the taking of body parts as "war souvenirs" and "war trophies". Teeth and skulls were the most commonly taken "trophies", although other body parts were also collected."
>>144283632
Is it strictly *white* milk from *a white cow*?
>>144283442
The price of fulfilling one's responsibilities to race and state? Seems a pretty cheap price to me.
>>144283515
Just look at the way Blacks were treated in Germany compared to the US. Or maybe you know nothing about that kind of thing because you've never studied history beyond what the establishment shoves in front of your face. You probably think there was a program to kill Jews too, right?
>>144283196
The "strongest" people are sociopaths and or psychopaths who manipulate, back stab and atrocity their way to victory and not good or virtuous people like Nat Socs believed and still believe because they know nothing about survival of the fittest but like to pretend they do for political reasons. Virtue inherently requires sacrifice and humbleness.
Sorry.
>>144283717
Long and honorable tradition of a *white* man.
>>144283515
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens#1936_Berlin_Summer_Olympics
hm really makes you think
>>144283756
Well, shouldn't we all live in one of such progressive and efficient societies if they are better? What happened to them?
>>144283760
>sociopaths and or psychopaths who manipulate, back stab and atrocity their way to victory
Hey, you just described the "stronger" side of the war, the way they won, what they did afterward, what they accused the Axis of doing, and the nature of the race for whom the Allied powers fought.
>>144283835
The Rothschilds prefer that societies operate under the heel of their banks rather than under nationalist power which is seldom profitable for outsiders. Essentially, those societies only benefit the members of that society, and are thus anathema to the class of international parasite currently infesting the world.
>>144283196
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Get fucked, fascist scum. There's a reason why your ideology failed once, and it will always fall.
>>144283800
> sempai noticed him!!!
>>144277715
Here we see a prime example for a moron.
>>144283986
>There's a reason why your ideology failed once, and it will always fall.
yeah, that reason is too much of the world is controlled by shills in the pocket of international banks who are trying to create a single, degenerated, simple race and culture, and one world government (which they will be in charge of)
>>144280844
>there were a bunch of scientists who worked on the nuke who killed themselves when it got used.
Source? All the one's I've read about did kick ass work after the Manhattan Project: Feynman, Campton, Oppenheimer (got fucked by the gov't actually), Neumann, and that's all the big names I know.
>>144283986
> by their Creator
Now here's the prob…
> Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness
Ah, that's not the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, that's just a historical document of a certain country.
You should probably follow him to the same religio-nationalist shithole.
>>144283208
>No they weren't. They had nothing against other races in principle, they were simply nationalist and didn't want them in their country
Do you not know what the Nuremberg Laws were?
>>144275635
Wow, it's almost like it isn't that black and white in the real world.
>>144280256
What you don't know faggot is that the main factor in ending the war was the battle of Stalingrad and Hitler's suicide.
"Oh our D-day ended the war" Is just all American propaganda.
>>144283978
So then you agree that the entire National Socialist view of Übermensch and Untermensch was a complete fabrication that was ignorant of actual nature.
Analyzing the “Photographic Evidence”
of the Nanking Massacre
http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/26_S4.pdf
>>144280788
Don't forget this guy.
>>144284328
America is single handedly responsible for the allied victory, but not because of muh d-day true valor honor brothers victory *bald eagle noises*, it was because of lend lease. Britain would have folded like a paper plane if America wasn't giving them all the free shit they could afford to manufacture
>>144284328
Russian plebeian with dates “22 June 1941” and “9 May 1945” forever engraved in his brain by propaganda machine spotted.
>>144280256
all of this is a complete lie. America simply wanted to demonstrate the nuke against an enemy while the war was on-going, and actively ignored Japan's repeated attempts to open a dialog to surrender.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_weber.html
>>144284425
> website name contains "fact"
The whole movie it's about a man trying to acomplish his dream of making planes, he realises the things he has to leave behind and the consequences that will take place if he does it.
So it's up to you to decide, in the end he was just doing what he loved.
>>144275635
A film which makes no attempts at being overtly political or moralistic, which is only discussed in political and moralistic contexts. Shame because it's a great movie
>>144284342
That view is something every society should include in its national ethos. Rejection of that notion is what has led to the distortions of modernity. The very notion that all men are created equal is a fallacy born of Enlightenment liberalism. Hierarchy is the tradition of Europe which emerged from our ancestors' study of the strong and the weak in nature. It is the distinction between what is good for the ethnostate and what is good for the individual which allowed civilization to emerge in the first place.
>>144285557
Ive never seen a point sail over somebody's head that hard before.
>>144284574
>>144283196
I was already tired with your Nazi shit early in the thread, but at least don't post links to the fucking IHR.
If you want to present the demonstration hypothesis, which is one of the three popular valid explanations, as a historical explanation for the usage of the nukes, at least use respectable sources, because there's plenty of actually respectable sources about that. Jesus Christ.
>>144275635
That's like saying buying Mitsubishi cars makes you a traitor.
He probably felt the same as Ferdinand Porsche, the founder of Porsche, who was also a good friend of Hitler's and designed tanks knowing full well that they are going to be used in war to kill the enemy.
In the end, a plane is just a plane, a tank is just a tank, they are just tools. What you do with the tools determine what people think of it, but in the end those are just what people think of it.
Imagine there are 2 knives of the same make. One has been used to stab someone, the other has cut nothing but fruits.
What's the difference between them? If they are both cleaned and maintained properly, there isn't really a difference.
>>144275635
Oooooooh look at the wittle baaby Japanese "Pwane"
It sure was impressive when you were fighting Buffalo's and first gen Hurricanes
>>144286759
looks like the Americans were trying to make up for something amiritegys?
>>144275635
Zero couldn't even reach the B-29s
>>144286809
Yea, they were trying to make up for the fact that they were blind-sided by japanese shitlords in pearl harbor and couldn't risk having their pilots be downed in tiny paper airplanes.
They made their shit to take a beating and compensated with much larger engines and dive speed.
>>144279910
>>144279463
>>144284075
>japan dindu nuffin you ignant
>probably american too
lel you realize they didn't stop at pearl harbor right?
the weebity is delicious
>>144281776
The fact that you made this post unironically made me laugh. And then I had a sad because someone actually unironically believes that the Allies committed more atrocities than the Axis.
But hey, I'll let you get back to making Meth to fund your Northern Montana Patriot Army friends. Have fun with that.
>>144287390
>And then I had a sad
How they speak tells you all you need to know about the sort of person that believes in the holohoax.
>>144279354
What you're saying is that you can't have an objective discussion about a complex movie character without bringing up america because the thought that he might have done bad makes you insecure.
>>144279463
>>144279910
>>144284075
>>144278230
>hey is this japanese character in the right?
>AMERICA BOMBED JAPAN
>yeah but is this japanese character in the right?
>YOU REALIZE THE US DOES EVIL SHIT ALL THE TIME BRO RIGHT?
>they do, how bout this japanese character though? the one in the anime i'm trying to analyse?
>LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU STOP BEING IGNORANT
>>144287573
Who are you quoting?
>>144277715
>millions
That's a stretch. Especially compared to Albert Einstein, whose work was used to develop nuclear bombs, and who thus by extension did kill millions of people. Also who is praised at every turn by Americans.
Hey, what's going on in this thread?
>>144287481
See, what annoys me is that there's enough hinky shit in humanity that we gloss over, enough shades of gray to have meaningful discussion about the relative roles of the Axis and Allies leading up to and during WWII. Things like the internment of Japanese civilians in the United States, the Allies allowing the Soviets to essentially annex Eastern Europe (Poland, Yugoslavia, Czech Republic, etc.) leading to basically replacing a German jackboot with a Russian one.
Instead the little neo-Fascists of the world embrace this idiotic claim that the Holocaust never happened and the Axis dindu nuffin. Great job, way to take a nuanced and incredibly rich portion of 20th Century history, a period of time who's effects are still felt across the world even today, and reduce it to a fucking wehraboo fantasy about Proud Teutonic Aryans fighting Asiatic hordes and Jew-controled goyim.
>>144288044
Pots calling kettles niggers
>>144288087
fuck, why you gotta go and make sense like that?
>>144286600
What a shit fucking metaphor.
What are fucking tanks and war planes used for except for blow shit out of people? I don't see Hans delivering milk in a goddamn Panzer.
>>144286864
WHY IS AN AMERICAN PLANE AN ELF!?!
>>144288087
yes, im sure you get much better discussion from the ones that want you locked up for having any view which isnt "nazis are pure evil"
>>144287858
Less than a hundred and fifty thousand people have died from the use of Atomic weapons, all of which were casualties of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
In fact, you could make a very good case than the invention and subsequent stockpiling of vast numbers of nuclear weapons kept the cold War between the West and the Soviet Union from going hot and starting an actual WWIII that could kill millions more people. In this way the invention and deployment of nuclear weapons has made the world more peaceful and saved lives on the balance.
>people fell for the he killed millions bait
Nice going Yurop
>>144288172
the problem is, only Axis tanks and warplanes are for blowing shit out of people, while Allied tanks and warplanes are for the greater good, and if you disagree you're a sub-human racist scumbag
>>144288087
>idiotic claim
>wehraboo fantasy
But it's the truth. That's the nuance you Zionist cocksuckers refuse to acknowledge. Internment of Japanese civilians? The only thing interesting about that is that the US calls it justified (it was) and then calls the same thing in Germany a genocide.
>>144288324
I just made a two paragraph talking about how the history is full of glorious shades of gray between good and evil and your smooth-lobed little thinker takes that in and spits out that obviously that means that I think "All Germans between 1933 and 1944 were evil Nazis."
Reading comprehension isn't exactly your strong suit, is it, Fritz?
>>144288489
It's his second language, know any German?
>>144288489
im saying that the people that prevent discussing the gray areas of this topic arent the ones you are complaining about.
in some countries its pretty much illegal if you dont blindly support the official view.
America nuked 2 fucking towns full of civilians, literally nothing japan did against them justifies such a crime against humanity. The lives of whoever is in a military base has no value when compared with the lives of people who are totally unrelated to their retarded wars.
America = criminals therefore doing things that would harm them is being a hero.
>>144284328
The Russian Army would jave starved to death without the Americans. That being said, your response has nothing to do with his statement.
>>144288672
>there are still countries that imprison citizens for thought crimes
>mfw many of those are western countries
>>144288781
>America = criminals therefore doing things that would harm them is being a hero.
ruined
Go to /pol you mother fuckers
>>144288781
would you say the same if america nuked nazi germany instead?
for reference, japan also killed 50 million people and enslaved 1/5th of the population of Korea
>>144288460
Here's the difference- we fucked over our Japanese population, sure. But we didn't fucking exterminate them- we ended up with more Japanese civilians than we started with after VJ Day.
And here's the thing- you can make a case for the internment of Japanese-American citizens in WWII- they're generally wrong and in retrospect is generally considered a black mark in American history, but you can still make the case that maybe some Japanese civilians would side with their mother country against the US. (Ironically, far more German-Americans ended up going back to fight for Germany against America than Japanese-Americans.) In the days and months after Pearl Harbor we didn't know if we could trust them so we made the "safe" choice.
But what was Germany's case for "interning" the Jews? There was no "Jewish state" for Germany to be betrayed to and Jews had been an integrated part of German society since before there even was a Germany. And even if that were the case, why continue exterminating Jews in Poland and France and Ukraine and the Netherlands and all these places that *aren't* Germany? From a State security perspective that kind of policy makes fuck-all sense; however if you put it into the frame of a demented Nazi fantasy believing that some International Jewish conspiracy was impoverishing the proud Aryan Germans and they must be eliminated from the world to stop them.
And that's the story of WWII- Germany wasn't in some noble Crusade against Communism and the International Jewish Conspiracy- in fact up until 1941 Hitler and Stalin were allies and had an agreement to split Europe between them- they were a militaristic, authoritarian dictatorship lead by a syphilitic Anti-Semite with delusions of world domination- if you believe differently you maybe need to cut your red-pill dosage until the paranoid delusions stop.
>>144289065
Germany didn't originally plan to exterminate the jews.
They even had a plan to exile them all to Madagastar at some point, but as the war advanced and they lacked everything, they started finding it more practical to kill them off.
I wonder what it would have been like if the US was in a similar situation.
Just something to think about.
>>144288987
>japan also killed 50 gorillion people and enslaved 1/5th of the population of Korea
the count just keeps going up every time I hear about it, makes me wonder, you know?
Also, wasn't it supposed to be ALL of Korea?
you can kick Germany/Japan around all you like only because you know there's going to be no significant pushback from the loser of the war.
>>144279560
And, that doesn't means that the axis were saints.
Both sides were shit, but hey, that's war.
>>144289161
>germany was only forced to commit genocide since they were caught in a war of aggression!
>anyone else would have done the same thing!
>>144289065
>But we didn't fucking exterminate them
And the Germans didn't exterminate anyone either, yet Zionists like you continue to perpetuate such a myth. The few thousand Jews killed during WWII are solely on the hands of the Allies who bombed German infrastructure and sometimes even the internment camps directly.
>But what was Germany's case for "interning" the Jews?
The predation of the German people by Jews during the Weimar Republic. The Jews of the era were a stateless tribe of parasites (if you don't count their control of the British Empire and the US as having a state). It was for these reason that they were interned with the intention of expelling them to a country of their own. Hitler didn't have the power to give them Israel (held by the British), so they rebelled against the German state when he cut ties with the central banking cabal.
Everything which was done by the National Socialists in the lead-up to having war declared upon them by internal Jewry and its allies was justified. Everything which was done during the war to defend the German state was justified. The same goes for the other nationalists powers of the Axis.
This guy is /pol/ incarnate and cannot be reasoned with. It's sad really
>>144289313
I expected exactly this green text response even though i didn't say any of that.
I'm just saying that people make decisions they otherwise wouldn't under pressure.
Even if immoral decisions are still immoral.
Maybe Germany wouldn't have exterminated jews if they weren't under the same pressure.
Maybe the US would exterminate the japanese they rounded up if they were put under the same kind of pressure.
Maybe, maybe not.
>them = irrational, senseless evil
>us = good (maybe with some minor faults, but all for the greater good)
>any disagreement means you're stupid
>>144288781
Go look up Operation Downfall- basically the plans we had to invade the Japanese home islands. I could tell you about how it was likely that we'd have to essentially de-populate the home islands to militarily defeat the Japanese. I could tell you that the Soviet Union had already declared on Imperial Japan before we dropped the atomic bombs and that such an invasion would likely allow a Soviet Invasion of the Japan and lead to a Japan split betwen Soviet and American control much like East/West Germany.
Instead, let me give you a little factoid- The American military has not produced a single new Purple Heart medal since 1945. We anticipated so many American casualties during the upcoming invasion of the Japanese Home Islands that we produced a stockpile five-hundred thousand Purple Hearts. That stockpile and the casualties they represented lasted us through Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan- we still have nearly 90,000 Purple Hearts left from a stockpile we created in 1945.
Dropping the Atomic Bombs and killing 150,000 Japanese meant that 500,000 American soldiers would not be killed or maimed. It meant that the Japanese home islands and their populations would remain intact. It meant that the Soviets were unable to take a piece of Japan like they took a piece of Germany. Japan is a functional, liberal democracy and one of the largest economies in the world because we dropped Einstein's bombs and told the Imperial Japanese leadership that we would drop more.
>>144289495
The Hitler was under no pressure of the sort
>>144288987
If they nuked fucking civilians then yeah, randomly attacking civilians because you got a beef with whoever is working at the government is retarded regardless of the circumstances, and America did it with extreme efficiency so that's even worse.
>>144288987
We absolutely would have dropped Atomic bombs on Germany and, in fact, had plans to. However the bombs weren't ready until after VE-Day so they were used to end the War in Japan instead.
>>144277715
>>144278288
He might have saved lives. If he hadn't come up with a flying crematorium for the Japanese Navy to use, they might have been stuck with an armored plane that was harder to shoot down and the war could have lasted longer.
>>144289419
Well of course, you can't reason away the truth. Leftists try, but it is simply ignorance in which your kind engages.
>>144289589
Non-american here.
I wonder about all you neutralfags, i suspect you just keep repeating every side was just as bad just to feel superior.
Do you think fascism is exactly the same as a democratic regime, morally?
What about a fascist regime that believes in the absolute superiority of a race?
Is a country that defends itself against an invader that plans to exterminate and enslave its people just as bad as the invader, even if both have authoritarian leaders?
According to my moral guidelines, the Axis were definitely more "evil" than the Allies. Even if questionable things were done by them, they WERE the "lesser evil" if not "the good guys".
>>144289637
>because we dropped Einstein's bombs
wrong
Japan is a functional, liberal democracy because modern Japan was always a functional, liberal democracy in times of peace.
The bombs did not suddenly mutate the country into a never-before-seen Japan.
If nukes are so good, why not drop more of them on America's enemies?
>>144276203
>Fanta was invented by the Nazis cause they couldn't import Coca-Cola.
Nope. The factory did what it could to get sugar and other available resources to keep making money.
The Cola execs were surprised to learn that the Factory kept operating.
>>144289866
Japan was never a real liberal democracy before.
And what "mutated" Japan into one was the post-war american hegemony, which they embraced because they disliked communism more.
>>144289866
>why not drop more of them
If only we could. Stupid Geneva Convention puts the kid gloves on everyone.
>>144289637
Aw that should have happened.
>>144289866
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if we hadn't dropped the bombs on Japan, you would've had a combination of literally millions of Japanese casualties- a significant depopulation of the country, hundreds of thousands of Allied casualties and a likely Soviet invasion of Korea and Japan.
If the bombs had no been dropped all of Korea and at least part of Japan would've been controlled by the Soviet Union for the next forty years.
This would not have been a great thing for Liberal Democracy in Japan.
>>144280256
As an aside on B: in the few days they were in the war the Soviets captured Korea, so they were given the northern half to occupy. And we all see how that turned out. So keeping the Soviets out of Japan turned out to be an incredibly good idea.
>>144290025
I don't know, what's keeping North Korea shit is the Kim dinasty, not necessarily communism.
It's impossible to tell what an unified Korea would have looked like today, could be a mini-China, or maybe turned capitalist after the fall of the Soviet Union.
>>144289866
>If nukes are so good, why not drop more of them on America's enemies?
Because it was a very specific set of strategic and political circumstances that made the use of atomic bombs the correct strategic choice- basically by using the two bombs and then saying that we would use more of them we were able to bluff the Imperial Japanese leadership into accepting Unconditional Surrender before the Soviets could get to them. In fact, I would make the case that if the Soviets had not made it perfectly obvious that they wanted a piece of Japan just like they got a piece of Europe, we would've simply blockaded the Home Islands and starved them into surrender.
>>144281718
Technically suicide is not shameful as far as Christianity is concerned. It's a sin because life is supposed to be viewed as a gift from God and by committing suicide you're basically spitting in his face.
>>144283027
>It's OK to do something bad if you *regret it later*.
I wasn't really trying to say that, more that at least in the US we're willing admit that we made a mistake long after the fact and don't try to cover it up either purposefully or out of wilful ignorance.
>We are the world policeman because we are the best.
We either play world police when are interests are viewed as being at risk or because something we created is proving to be a thorn, the two are usually one in the same.
The former I'm not a fan of, but if we can help out with the latter I'm all for it. Much better than the majority of or all of the European nations who shit all over various places in the world and then either left because the natives kicked them out or they couldn't afford to stay there anymore.
>>144281332
Miyazaki's original ending implied Jiro killed himself at the end. The historical character died decades after WW2 but The Wind Rises was taking already many creative licenses and Miyazaki had no other idea of how to finish the movie. Anno hated the ending and expressed it on his passive-aggressive way so Miyazaki changed koi (come) for iketeru (live) at the last minute. Anno was pleased and according to an interview, the ending was his favorite scene
>>144289797
>Do you think fascism is exactly the same as a democratic regime, morally?
looking at the US elections coming up this year, I would say democracy is overrated. Not bad, but certainly not the perfect system it's made out to be.
>What about a fascist regime that believes in the absolute superiority of a race?
Like American exceptionalism? It's not inherently wrong to look favorably upon one's own.
This sort of confidence is only seen as wrong when they lose a war, like Japan or Germany did.
If the Axis had won, Americans would have been labeled as overconfident of themselves.
>Is a country that defends itself against an invader that plans to exterminate and enslave its people just as bad as the invader, even if both have authoritarian leaders?
The Japanese understanding was that the West was coming to do exactly that, so they fought back and went on the offensive.
The Germans were under threat of a massive Soviet invasion, where the best defense would have been a strong offense.
The US, on the other hand, had ample natural resources, huge populations, and had no need to invade any other continents, but they did anyway.
The point is, you're still only seeing it from the Allies side and blindly demonizing the Axis nations.
Realize that both sides were just as right to fear the other.
this shit really does belong on /pol/
>>144285557
Just curious but, do you see yourself as strong or weak?
![b0015356_5351617[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8tTIHdc.jpg "b0015356_5351617[1].jpg")
>>144290284
>Like American exceptionalism?
It's completely fucking different from american exceptionalism. Do you need me to actually need to explain why it's different from nazi racial ideology?
>The Japanese understanding was that the West was coming to do exactly that
No it was not. Where the fuck did you get this idea?
They saw the US as an obstacle to building the empire they wanted.
>The US, on the other hand, had ample natural resources, huge populations, and had no need to invade any other continents, but they did anyway.
Yep, though it was for the best in the end.
Also strategists of the time didn't necessarily see it that way, pic related. Geopolitics dictate that the US would be unable to defeat a victorious Germany/Imperial Japan coalition.
>>144290459
Weak, irredeemably so
>>144289928
>Japan was never a real liberal democracy before.
And what government system were they before the war?
oh, my bad, they're a PARLIAMENTARY democracy today.
Just like they were before and during the war.
America did not bring democracy to Japan, even though that's what they teach in American schools. Get over it.
>>144289995
It turned out that way, and Japan was lucky for it, but
>you get stabbed with a knife and tied up by A
>as a result, you end up avoiding getting raped by B
>A nurses you back to health
you don't really need to thank A who stabbed you for saving you from rape, as that was clearly not his intention for doing so.
the stabbing was not an act of rape-prevention.
the nukes are not an act of saving Japan from Soviet occupation.
Japan was lucky that time, but they shouldn't take this as a lesson and immediately surrender to the next country that threatens them with a knife.
>>144290759
>And what government system were they before the war?
A constitutional monarchy based on the prussian model that was not a liberal democracy.
Most relevant political positions weren't elected.
Get over it
>>144290759
>the nukes are not an act of saving Japan from Soviet occupation.
Actually, they were. Truman was on the fence about using the Atomic bombs on Japan rather than simply blockading or invading the home islands until the Soviet Union declared war and revealed their intentions to go to war with and invade Japan. At that point it was decided that using them on Japan was the only way to get them to surrender to the US unconditionally before the Soviets got involved.
>>144275635
>Would you call him a villain?
no, because Japan did nothing wrong
>>144290759
>you don't really need to thank A who stabbed you for saving you from rape, as that was clearly not his intention for doing so.
>the stabbing was not an act of rape-prevention.
you don't really need to thank A who stabbed you for saving you from rape, as that was clearly not his intention for doing so.
the stabbing was not an act of rape-prevention.
Its more like breaking someone's ribs as you tackle them out of the way of an oncoming bus.
>>144290562
>>The Japanese understanding was that the West was coming to do exactly that
>No it was not. Where the fuck did you get this idea?
>They saw the US as an obstacle to building the empire they wanted.
Really now? the Japanese just wanted to build a murderous empire of killing and slavery and did not feel threatened at all by the west, especially the US? Is that so? and you're convinced of the intentions of the Japanese how exactly?
This is the sort of demonization of the enemy that makes any dialogue impossible, because people are so convinced the other side is out to do wrong for the sake of doing wrong while their side is only humbly trying to defend freedom and righteousness. It's vanity to think the other side has expansionist ideals while your side does not.
Also, why does everyone think the Soviets DIDN'T occupy Japanese soil?
>>144290940
The Soviet Union declaring war on Japan was something the US asked them in Yalta. The Soviet Union asked for more time and declared war exactly when scheduled.
>>144290984
>tackle them out of the way of an oncoming bus
this is what Americans genuinely believe, that the US was acting in the pure best interest of everyone they beat the shit out of
>>144291064
they can't admit wwii was a mistake, because their entire ego is built around it
>>144290992
No one is being demonized dumbass.
Building a large overseas empire in the european model was their explicit goal.
And though it was the european model, they did time and again show more cruelty to the occupied populations than even the europeans usually did.
The US had an "imperial" model that while arguably exploitative, is definitely the "lesser evil" here.
>Also, why does everyone think the Soviets DIDN'T occupy Japanese soil?
Manchuria/Sakhalin? Not extremely important.
>>144291064
Please, go ahead and make the case that Japan would have been better off as a Soviet Satillite or balkenized like Germany between Russia and the West. I'd love to hear how either of those would've had Japan be better off.
>>144291095
Because Japan didn't start the war and Pearl Harbor was a hoax, right?
>>144291040
By the end of WW2, the Soviet Union already took Berlin and half of Europe, including Poland despite the entire war started in theory as a protest for the German invasion to Poland. The communists were strong on Asia and Russia had a debt to Japan, see the Russo-Japanese war. The nukes were a piss contest between Truman and Stalin, that's it.
>>144290901
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Japan#Prime_Ministers_of_the_Empire_of_Japan_.281868.E2.80.931947.29
I suppose their entire government was just a farce to hide their totalitarian ways?
Also, the UK is a constitutional monarchy, does that mean they're not a liberal democracy?
When will the US bring democracy to the UK?
>>144291064
They were acting in their own interest, and in this case that also turned out for the best for humanity as a whole.
>>144291205
Sure, but it wasn't a response to the soviet declaration of war, that was something arranged.
>>144291177
>Implying murricans gave a shit about chinks
They all could die of tuberculosis for what USA cared. It was about political power and resources
>>144291215
You think that just because there was someone called "prime minister" it means it was a democracy?
THE PRIME MINISTER WAS APPOINTED BY THE EMPEROR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Constitution
>>144291215
Strictly speaking, they aren't. They act like a liberal democracy however there are no limitations restricting what the government can allow itself to do- if the British Parliament voted tomorrow to declare martial law and the cessation of rights they could. There is no list of inalienable rights that the Parliament cannot violate if it decides to do so.
>>144291217
>and in this case that also turned out for the best for humanity as a whole
This is what Zionists actually believe
>>144291371
The emperor had no political power, it was a religious symbol for keeping the nation together. The prime minister was chosen by the elite, just like today. See the LDP
>>144291177
>Building a large overseas empire in the european model was their explicit goal.
>And though it was the european model, they did time and again show more cruelty to the occupied populations than even the europeans usually did.
>The US had an "imperial" model that while arguably exploitative, is definitely the "lesser evil" here.
pure bullshit
Japanese "colonies" were modernized like none other, the Koreans had the right to vote and run for office in mainland Japan, and even the treatment of Taiwanese (who were not full-fledged citizens like the Koreans were) under Japanese rule was remarkably civil, especially contrasted with the treatment of blacks in the US during the same period, or the treatment of the Philippines after the Philippine-American war.
The US was not a altruistic force in the world, they were out for their own just like everyone else was.
>>144291435
The emperor had a lot of political power, but deferred to a council on most matters.
The point is, it wasn't a liberal democracy.
>>144291386
Not that anon but the Japanese government is an American puppet. Despite all the nationalism, Japan is an US colony de facto. They fought for keeping their independence for western powers and they lost
>>144291371
and the British prime minister is appointed by the queen, what's your point?
>>144291450
Right, japanese colonization was heaven, all of east asia only hate them today out of jealousy.
In some places it was better than others, like Taiwan, but overall it was pretty brutal.
I am not saying the US was an altruistic force in the world, i am saying that the triumph of liberal, democratic values in WW2 was for the best.
>>144291494
In theory. In practice, it isnt. Such was not the case in Imperial Japan.
why haven't the mods moved this thread to /pol/ yet?
>>144291629
Threads can't be moved, Mr. Newfag.
>>144291484
You're maybe... 10% right. Yes the Japanese government is very comfy with America, however its not a one-way street; both countries benefit from these relationship; American gets a nice big unsinkable aircraft carrier to keep the Chinese in check, while Japan gets the benefit of protection of the largest military in the world without having to pay a dime- hell America *pays Japan* for the use of its bases.
>>144275635
Einstein theory helped to make the atomic bomb, fucking Jew Destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not to mention the incidents like Chernobil, Fukushima and other shits that I dont remember.
>>144291623
>Right, japanese colonization was heaven, all of east asia only hate them today out of jealousy.
Why you take anything seriously from the CCP and the butthurt-as-fuck Koreans (both which immediately started genociding their political dissidents as soon as they had the chance to) is beyond me.
Why not listen to some of the Taiwanese? Or Thais? Or Indonesians? Or Vietnamese?
Right, japanese colonization was pure hell, all of asia only like them today out of insanity.
>In theory. In practice, it isnt. Such was not the case in Imperial Japan.
and your evidence for this is what exactly?
Did the emperor kick someone out of office for going against his wishes?
When did this ever happen?
>>144291711
>Japan gets the benefit of protection of the largest military in the world without having to pay a dime
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omoiyari_Yosan
Japan pays quite a bit, although not as much as if they were to have their own military.
That doesn't mean they're freeloading, it's a mutual relationship with benefits for both sides like you said.
The zero was a really impressive plane for its time. I've read some things by him and he didn't seem like an ultra nationalist at all, he seemed like a dude who enjoyed making some of the finest airplanes the world had seen.
>>144291887
Not him but I would say that for the Korean national identity occupation was hell, just look at what the Japanese did to the Korean royal family. However the Japanese were not absolutely ruthless in their occupied territories, Korea was hugely underdeveloped and Japan helped them come a long way and while many believe that post war they could have laid claim on the infrastructure they had built, they didn't.
This is a surprisingly civil historical/political discussion, way better than what's usually on /pol/.
>>144291887
Because there are reports of their brutality from foreigners that were in China at the time of the invasion. Saying nothing happened is holocaust denial tier. Koreans probably exaggerate but they also got fuckedliterally
Read the wikipedia article about the meji constitution which i already posted
How things work in practice are important
In the UK today, the queen nominates someone from a majority party in the house of commons
In Imperial Japan, the emperor nominated someone from a select council of the japanese elite
>>144292084
On /pol/ you run into unceasing shilling, here you just get normies that have never looked beyond the Zionist presentation of history and the /pol/acks who watch anime.
>>144292084
try /his/ one of these days
>>144292058
The royal family was absorbed into the Japanese royal class, how is that hell?
Also, the Japanese built countless schools all around Korea, raising the literacy rate, and taught the Korean language in them as part of mandatory education, how was this in any way hell?
>>144292145
>Because there are reports of their brutality from foreigners that were in China at the time of the invasion.
and there are "reports" of police purposefully killing off minorities in the US, and people believe it because it fits their beliefs of how inherently evil the enemy is.
But don't let that distract you from believing that those japs were killing indiscriminately for the sake of being evil.
>>144292376
The scale was completely different
>But don't let that distract you from believing that those japs were killing indiscriminately for the sake of being evil.
>
>>144292145
I have no idea where your conviction comes from that the Japanese emperor alone picks and chooses the prime minister. The emperor had absolutely no hand in choosing the first prime minister, Ito, a man from a peasant family.
Are you just pulling all of this out of your ass?
>>144292639
No, i'm pulling it from the fucking meiji constitution
>>144292243
Some anon on /his/ was talking about assassinations and forced weddings resulting in suicide, essentially forcefully ending the dynasty. However as I read up on the House of Yi it seems as if post-liberation Korea did more to remove them.
>>144292513
What I'm saying is, "reports" aren't absolute proof, there are even reports from the Japanese side that the invasion was met with cheers from the Chinese populace who were tired from all the local warlords fucking them over.
What, the Japanese reports are always propaganda, but the Allied side never falsified information for the sake of waging an information war? Would you seriously be deluded enough to believe that?
>>144292738
you said it yourself
>How things work in practice are important
in practice, the emperor did not choose the prime minister, he merely appointed him
why are you so determined to make pre-WW2 Japan out to be a totally alien race? They weren't all that different from who they are today, same as the western world.
Was Japan's only war justification that they wanted an empire and that Europe had already done what they wanted to do? (not talking about the attack on the US)
>>144275635
He dindu nuffin like the dude that dropped nukes.
>>144292878
The last descendant of the Korean royal family died alone in a Japanese hotel AFTER WW2.
The royal family was destroyed by the Koreans themselves, they just want to pin another crime on Japan, just like all their accusations of Japan "destroying their culture" and shit.
>>144292895
There are pictures, and sources from both the allies and from within the axis, both german and japanese. Literally holocaust denial tier.
>why are you so determined to make pre-WW2 Japan out to be a totally alien race?
Why do you think not being a liberal democracy is "alien"?
>>144292951
That, and they had national security on their mind
Better to have buffer zones than not.
Also, thier stated goal of "freeing Asia from the shackles of colonialism" was actually achieved, although not in the way they had planned.
>>144293033
>holocaust denial tier.
You mean the objective historical facts tier? Remember, the holohoax didn't happen. There was no plan to systematically kill Jews, and no physical evidence that any more than a few thousand Jews died while in internment camps due to famine and typhus caused by Allied bombing. Oh, the Allies also bombed camps to kill some, along with historical sites and cities.
Anno cucked his shipfus to voice a movie about planes
>>144293131
>There was no plan to systematically kill Jews
Not originally, but they went and killed them anyway
You're too smart and redpilled for me anon, i'm tired and going to bed.
>>144293033
>there are pictures
there are pictures of UFO's, aliens, yeti's, the loch ness monster, and more. Are you going to believe those? What are you, some kind of evidence denier?
There have never been any credible military records showing systematic genocide or even rape. There are, however, records showing soldiers were punished for committing such crimes on their own.
>Literally holocaust denial tier.
Good thing I'm in a country that can't arrest me for being skeptical of historical narratives.
>Why do you think not being a liberal democracy is "alien"?
It's not, your're just trying to paint them as totally different from what we are and what they were, and I take issue with that.
>>144293241
good night, sweet anon
it's been a while since I did this, felt good to get it out
>>144276665
Not like regret is going to do much once he handed over the plans.
They're going to be making the planes with or without his consent, and he's not going to have the balls to show dissatisfaction to his homeland in fucking WWII Imperial Japan. Hell, he probably thought he was helping his country and his designs were being used for the greater good.
What did you expect him to do? Defect and hand over his designs to some other potentially corrupt party?
>>144293298
There are allied sources, german sources, and japanese sources which coincide in saying a lot of civilians were raped and killed.
>It's not, your're just trying to paint them as totally different from what we are and what they were,
I am trying to paint them as not a liberal democracy, which they were not.
And neither was my country so it's not "we"
im done for tonight
are only americans entitled to be patriotic? if japs won he would be revered as a hero who broke the yankee tyranny with his marvelous constructions
>>144293241
>but they went and killed them anyway
Where is the evidence?
The numbers of those killed are continually being revised lower as the official story is challenged and found wanting. Everything from the impossibility of cremating millions of bodies given the number of crematories (Japan is actually having a problem cremating all of their dying elderly TODAY, yet somehow the Germans burned away six gorillion kikes?) to the impossibility of supposed gas chambers functioning as such due to having improper sealing and ventilation (IE, the guards in their nearby barracks would have all died as well if those rooms were flooded with gas).
A few thousand Jews died, but that blood is entirely on Allied hands. They started a war with the nationalist powers for the express purpose of bringing them under the globalist umbrella, and it was their actions during that war that led to deaths in the camps.
>>144293387
It is easy to fabricate sources. After all, the holocaust is an invention as well. Yet we have from the winning side our own sources describing how nigger units were specifically chosen for the occupation of Germany so that they would rape civilians. Patton was removed from his post overseeing the occupation because he tried to refuse Jews who petitioned the military to kick Germans out of their homes and turn them over to the Jews. This is all freely recorded of course, because the Allies saw such things as just. Patton didn't realize until he got into Germany that he had been fighting the wrong people, then he was assassinated.
>>144293584
that's your evidence, posts on /pol/? Christ anon the cheek on you
>>144293418
yes
and japs are venerated in Indonesia for helping to liberate the country from the Dutch, or at least so I've heard
>>144293387
and at least all of the Japanese "confessions" of mass killings and mass rapes has been disproved with actual military records (i.e. his group was never at where he said he committed atrocities, he lied about his position/rank/job/etc., he lied about his age, and so on)
Allied sources are not allowed to be questioned at all, lest the skeptic be labeled a "holocaust denier" like so many people like you love to do.
German sources, like John Rabe, who never witnessed these "atrocities" first-hand, but took the word of random Chinese that say they saw them? If second-hand or third-hand testimony was to be always trusted, American universities would be rape dens. They're not, by the way.
>>144278681
>>144279001
Communist scumfucks get out
>>144278697
Only a devil would make g-d's chosen do manual labour.
>>144294041
>japs are venerated in Indonesia for helping to liberate the country from the Dutch,
Yes, and they also happy when they heard Japan was getting bombed and surrendered, thus giving them a chance to proclaim their independence.
To neutral country like them, both of Allies and Axis are nothing more than imperialist invader that should be kept away from their country.
>>144293584
Do you know enough about modern Japanese crematoriums to compare to a military institution in the 40s?
I would assume a small business with a handful of employees is going to operate far differently than a death camp. They have to worry about employee and customer scheduling, ceremony, pricing, industry standards, etc. A camp with disciplined soldiers and an unlimited workforce would be much more efficient.
>>144275635
It was Miyazaki declaring himself a villain.
He's indirectly responsible for creation of disgusting otakus in very same fashion.
>>144275635
>>144275709
>>144279704
it's 2016 and people still want to separate Good and Evil, in history there is no such thing, it's only a political connotation
>>144280256
>>144284328
>>144284574
>>144290025
Japan was losing anyway, America could have continued fighting for a few month and Japan would have surrended, without using A-bombs...BUT at the Jalta Conference it was imposed to Russia that it would declare war to Japan only 3 months after Germany's surrender;
Germany surrenders 8th may, 3 months later, on 8th Agoust Russia invades Manchuria and Shicilin island, the A-bombs were dropped because the USA didn't want Russia to have too much power in Japan
>>144275709
>individuals looking for out for their own interest
>evil
There is no one evil, not even the corporate jews that /pol/ like to believe are evil and opress the poorfags.
Everyone is looking for their own success and enjoyment, it just so happens that most of the time you need to step on other people, consciously or unconsciously, in order to obtain something.
>>144293584
Hitting the Koolaid a bit hard there, Fritz McSchnitzel? Don't mean to demean your "Germany dindu nuffin" worldview, but there are a few glaring fucking holes in it...
First of all, they didn't cremate six million Jews. Hell, even the deathcamps didn't do that much cremation- that was a prominent feature of the Auschwitz/Birkenau camp and one that is likely to stick into the minds of survivors. Honestly, the deathcamps didn't do all that much Jew-killing, however the horror stories and their relatively high survival rate mean that they're better documented and make for a much better story about the holocaust.
As much as we enjoy playing up the Wannsee Conferance for setting the groundwork for Zyklon-B showers and massive crematories, it just wasn't feasible to round-up that many Jews and Undesirables and ship them back to the deathcamps in Poland. (Which were generally used to eliminate the populations of the Poland's Jewish Ghettos rather than shipping in Jews from across occupied Europe.)
The real "heroes" of Germany's "Final Solution" were organic assets in the field- basically whichever SS or Wehrmact unit rolled into a new town would round up the Jews, Partisans, Homosexuals, etc., march them into a forest to dig a hole, and then machinegun them into said hole. After that you push a layer of dirt over the bodies, and march in the next group. Repeat until the population of undesirables in an area was a big ol' goose egg and then you drive a half-track over the grave to tamp it down a bit and you're off to the next town! Now that's efficiency!
>>144296381
>So edgy.
>So where are you in life, posting on /a/ and defending corporate jews?
