Now that the dust has settled, was this actually a good anime? I finally decided to pick it back up after a few years since I always see people saying it's masterpiece. Was she just a Mary Sue?
>>144194778
>Now that the dust has settled
>>>/v/
>>144194778
>Now that the dust has settled
Hehe.
>>144194778
>was this actually a good anime?
It's an amazing fucking anime.
And Utena is far from a mary sue, she is literally a deconstruction of the "need no man" feminist character. She fails because she betrays her inner feminity and tries to be "manly" because she thinks being a "hero" demands her to be a man. Once she grows beyond this, she helps Anthy grow herself.
>>144194778
>Was she just a Mary Sue?
I don't think you know what that means
>>144194778
its pretty gud bro.
She's a pig-headed self-righteous arriviste who eventually whores herself out.
She has some Mary-Sue-esque traits but as the show progresses, you see how she falls well short.
>>144195399
>gets seduced by an older man
>"whores herself out"
The whole show's about how delicate people are despite how they act outwardly. So our tough girl is very delicate and inexperienced. Yeah, I took the bait.
>>144195399
Came to post this. Utena's flaws and her internal struggle especially about her feelings for Anthy balance her Sue-ish nature quite effectively.
>>144194778
She tries to be a perfect like a charming prince (or a Mary Sue if you want) but she fails at it and has to understand and embrace her own flaws. That's why the flying swords (aka social pressure) didn't kill her and could move out of the school.
A mary-sue is not necessarily defined by great powers, nor do flaws necessarily *disqualify* being a mary-sue.
The most defining trait of a sue is that they are like black holes which suck up the agency of everything around them. It is *other* characters, becoming less competent, less proactive, less *characterized*, that let you know definitively that you have a sue on your hands.
>watch the first ep
>pink haired protagonist gets cheered on by all the girls in the school because she is the most popular thing ever
>just as fit as the guys in basketball if not more
>"eww no thx I don't want to join the team with a bunch of sweaty BOYS lol"
>/a/ thinks this is great
Am I not watching the same show as you guys or are you seriously able to tolerate this Gaia online fanfiction-level drivel?
>>144197162
Hell if I know, it's pretty much tumblr: the Anime
Sluts everywhere.
>>144197220
>tumblr
tumblr wouldn't fuck with Patriachy, that's what Utena does at end.
>>144197162
>one episode makes the whole series
K
>>144194778
>Mary Sue
Judging from what Otsuki did to her, I'd say no. She let herself be used. Part of her development as a person was growing up and learning that for all of Otsukis flashiness, he was actually a huge prick.
>>144197162
That's the point. It's setting that sort of thing up.
>>144194778
>>144195235
It's amazingly boring. I think I made it to about episode 11 or so, but I just couldn't go on. Every episode was formulated the same way. The art style was horrendously lazy. The dialogue was forced. Everything about it was bad.
>>144197390
Okay.
>>144195235
Utena doesn't betray her femininity, she doesn't see herself as male at all just because she dresses like one. The point is that Anthy didn't need a prince in the first place, and could save herself.
>>144197440
She doesn't see herself like a male, but she sees herself like a prince.
>>144197162
are you me
>>144197390
I'm at episode 17 or so and that was my impression as well, which is why I really needed to hear out people who continuously praise the show to have the motivation to continue.
>>144197162
> I judge anime based on the first episode
Jeez anon, if I didn't know better I'd think that you are a massive newfag.
>>144197275
>tumblr wouldn't fuck with Patriachy, that's what Utena does at end.
>tumblr wouldn't fuck with the Patriarchy
Isn't that, like, the ENTIRE point of tumblr's 3rd wave feminism?
>>144197567
And nothing about the series implies that the masculine elements of being a prince was ever the issue, or that her having masculine traits was a bad thing. She could've been male and the message that you can't always be the prince and one isn't always needed would have stayed the same.
mokushi kushimo
shimoku kumoshi
moshiku shikumo
mokushi kushimo
shimoku kumoshi
moshiku shikumo
>>144197823
That's a tongue twister and a fucking half.
>>144197663
It was about episode 20 when everything clicked for me and I realized I was watching something special. If you think it's boring as fuck from the start you might not end up liking it, but there is a distinct shift from duel of the week to the actual core of the show which is what makes people call it a masterpiece.
>>144197390
>>144197663
To be fair, the first 13 are nothing especial, it stablish the rules of the world and seems like a pretty strightfowar series. Then the black roses arc puts everthing upside down.
>>144197740
No, I mean she literally fucks with Patriarchy.
>>144198056
First 13 episodes sold the show for me. Utena did an amazing job of setting up the core cast, who all had the same flaw/ motivation for duels. By the end of that first arc you could plainly see that Utena wasn't and couldn't be a prince, she was just trapped the same way the council members were.
>>144198056
holy fuck, her nose
>>144198056
DELETE THIS
>>144194778
> Mfw the episode with her first fight with Juri
Is it bad that this was one of my favorite episodes? It's certainly the one that got me totally hooked.
The song, animation, conflict, and the end of the duel all fantastic.
>>144194778
>now that the dust has settled
>>144194778
The only thing I remember about this anime is
>ZETTAI
>UNMEI
>MOKUSHIROKU
And that guy who keeps jumping on the hood of his car with his shirt open.
Utena was a weird show, man.
>>144197663
utena was written using kabuki and japanese theater as a baseline structure, which revolves around proverbial repetitions of a theme
it's a series that's somewhat difficult to translate because most of the information is conveyed visually in a context only japanese wold understand
the composer for the soundtrack wrote for the japanese version of broadway, as well
the repetition is intentional. it does suffer pacing isues but the repetition is what lends gravity and a hint of western tragedy to the characters. they're all trying to change, but they're all trying to change themselves in radically different ways by... doing the exact same thing.
maybe you picked up on it and didn't care. maybe you didn't. either way, that's the point of the show. utena herself ends up failing in the same way as well.
despite the obnoxious political overtones which run exactly opposite to everything I believe, I still think it's probably ne of the best series created for what it is.
Two thousand years later and butthurt fans are still claiming that Akio raped Utena despite the fact that it was consensual and Anthy was watching the entire time.
>>144199959
juri was my favorite character. her and akio were the only ones I could really relate to even remotely.
iirc ikuhara was thinking of making juri the main character, but he wasn't sure it would progress as well with her and things didn't fit right in his head
Here's the real question: why did everything that came afterward end up being so fucking awful?
>>144197220
came here to post this
every blue-haired tumblrina with a sjw blog lists this anime as one of their "inspirations"
>>144201882
Yeah, unforunately. In a lot of ways it's as far removed from what they think as what "the patriarchy" thinks though. Tumblerinas want death to all white hetero males and want stem-cell penis grafts to slap upon their frankengina. They also want welfare and affirmative action and beautiful at any size body positivity.
In a way utena rejects all of that because utena ultimately fails even harder than most of the conventional people, it shows that women are distinctly more vulnerable than men. It portrays that we're our own victims, not someone else's. It also portrays spouse beaters as sympathetic.
Whatever.
in the end SJWs are gonna like ghostbusters: return of the giant negro sheboon and Stalin: kill the cis scum a lot more than utena.
>>144201882
/a/ liked Utena way before tumblr was a thing, and we sure won't stop liking it just because a few landwhales like it now
I am gay for this thread
I miss having good Utena threads occasionally
What does being a prince mean?
What happened to Utena at the end.
>>144202675
prince was a metaphor for some arbitrary social status that was awarded to you on popularity. akio was the prince, but he didn't have any powers except what people imagined him to have. and he just used it to sleep with people. it's literally a stand in for anything that you, or anyone else finds impressive for an arbitrary reason that you yourself probably can't explain. e.g. sports stars, cool kids, musicians, etc.
utena graduated at the end and abandoned the social game.
>>144202675
Being a prince is exactly what it sounds like. Utena realizes that she was exactly the same as all the other duelists and was only using Anthy to satisfy herself by "protecting" her. She gives Anthy the push she needs to truly free herself and leaves the school.
>>144194778
It did character development pretty well in the cases of Saionji and the Kiryuu siblings. Can't say the same for Juri, Shiori, nor the Kaoru twins.
>>144199959
My favorite episodes were 17, 24, 27, and 28.
>>144201882
>implying tumblrinas even understood Utena
![[gg]_Star_Driver_-_02v3_[B3642E89].mkv_snapshot_21.29_[2016.07.15_14.06.37].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oGXgHoF.jpg "[gg]_Star_Driver_-_02v3_[B3642E89].mkv_snapshot_21.29_[2016.07.15_14.06.37].jpg")
Utena should meet Takuto.
His youth is dazzling.
Utena is definitely a example of style over substance
Over the 39 episodes, symbolically was horrifying. It's kinda like, jojo style and evangelion narrative
>>144203904
It's poetry over prose.
The story is told visually instead of narrative.
>>144194778
It's a masterpiece.
>>144203904
>implying more than .5% of anime has substance
>>144197220
>>144199959
Same here, the first Juri episode was what really hooked me into this series.
>>144194778
The show is nice. And they have a brown beauty.
I watched it dubbed. The dub had a surreal feel to it and it made the show so much more weird. Also, Crispin Freeman as touga was pretty cool.
>>144208126
The dub suffers from a lot of weird dialogue choices but it becomes okay the further into the series it gets. I really liked the voice they picked for Utena, even if she was pretty rusty at the start, and Anthy was... alright, she didn't stand out that much, but I imagine that was the point with her character.
Only characters VA I really didn't like was Saionji, but overall you're right in that the dialogue has a surreal-ness to it that's probably harder to pick up if you don't speak jap.
What is your favourite duel theme? Mine is Astrolagous chikyuu sugoroku.
>>144208188
Saionji had that weird British accent. Also Akio sounded both menacing and sexy at the same time.
Also, I heard that the people don't like it because some of the dialogue was changed. How true is that? I mean, all the gay stuff is still in the dub. What did they change?
>>144208194
I like the last one. There are a few really good ones, but Akio's theme is the only one that I recall completely from memory.
>>144208242
Akio was fantastic, really sold it with how weirdly intimidating he was, even when he's being kind.
I wouldn't know exactly what the dub changed though, probably just a bunch of little things, no actual story elements, not that I can remember, anyway.
>>144208194
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWZrgqhF39w
The way it just repeats the last line is great, perfectly suits the climax of the duel.
>>144208194
Shiori's and Kozue's themes were the most catchy to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl3yElLAEIM
I should play the VN at some point.
so who fucked who in utena? i made a diagram of the people i think fucked.
>>144208885
Heh that's actually true, movie delivered what I expected part tough
>>144208519
I remember it being pretty fun. I guess I should replay it now that it got translated to english.
>>144208930
I think Touga made a point of never fucking his sister?
>>144208930
I think that half of the characters in this diagram never fucked anybody.
>>144209206
Maybe Miki and Nanami didnt fuck anyone, but all the others have defenetly fucked.
![[アニメ BD] 少女革命ウテナ 第19話「今は亡き王国の歌」(1080p x264 FLAC 2ch+6ch 10bit chap).mkv_snapshot_20.23_[2016.07.08_05.16.31].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/d4eMLl6.jpg "[アニメ BD] 少女革命ウテナ 第19話「今は亡き王国の歌」(1080p x264 FLAC 2ch+6ch 10bit chap).mkv_snapshot_20.23_[2016.07.08_05.16.31].jpg")
Was he a good guy?
>>144195956
>The most defining trait of a sue is that they are like black holes which suck up the agency of everything around them. It is *other* characters, becoming less competent, less proactive, less *characterized*, that let you know definitively that you have a sue on your hands.
I'd agree with this.
>>144194778
Now that I think about it all that supernatural car stuff just meant that he had the ability to pick up people on whim and sex them.
>>144209559
I honestly don't know. The concept of 'good person' in this context is very warped.
>>144194778
This anime was pretty much everything I didn't like about anime when I watched it and the entire thing had me wondering how the hell I was loving this.
>>144195235
>she is literally a deconstruction of the "need no man" feminist character
There goes that word again.
Utena as a character is not a deconstruction nor is she the "need no man" type of feminist, one of the thematics is to not revel in your past. She were saved by a Prince as a child and yearned to be the Prince that saved her. Hell,Anthy betrayed Utena and stabbed her in the penultimate episode renouncing Utena as her Prince.
>>144197822
>She could've been male and the message that you can't always be the prince and one isn't always needed would have stayed the same
Wouldn't that apply to Mikage and Mamiya?
Yes she was all these anons saying that she has flaws are objectively wrong.
She may have a flaw for one episode but by the next she will have overcome it with sheer willpower and nothing more.
She lets herself be "used" in another only to break free of this again using her own willpower
No real character development actually happens
>>144211186
Uthena obssesed over Akio for the majority of the anime not just one episode
>>144208930
Pretty sure Saionji fucked Akio too.
Wasn't the car kind of symbolic for sex? And that's what 'taking a ride in Akio's car' was? In that case, pretty much every duelist in the last part fucked him.
>>144209559
Yeah I think so, or at the very least, a better guy than the rest of the Black Rose dualists.
>>144211608
Tsuwabuki did nothing wrong.
>>144211432
Did Juri ride the fun car?
>>144211657
He bullied Nanami-sama at the beginning, unforgivable.
>>144211432
I'm sure that most of the characters who got a ride in the Akio car had sex. But I like to go a little bit deeper. You know those scenes where the black rose duelists steal the swords from their loved ones? Rape scenes. But since everyone got their memories erased, they don't remember being raped by their one sided, sexually repressed stalker.
>>144211664
Yes, she rode it, but she actually got fucked by ruka, not akio.
>>144209559
Yes, he was.
Despite his many feelings of want regarding Wakaba, his final desire is of wanting to see her happy, even if it's not with him, so he gets a pass.
>>144197162
no one has ever whined about gaia without being some kind of ridiculously insecure gaia poster
>>144194778
Faggot shit that I would only want to watch once.It was alright.
Dona Dona Dona Donaaa
>>144209559
Considering Anthy's role as the ideal woman, not in the literal sense of a woman who fits a particular set of values but as the actual stand-in icon of any/every character's differing ideal woman, the fact that the Black Rose Duelists all wanted to kill Anthy had to do with their inability to reconcile their lovers' preoccupation with that ideal that they didn't measure up to. Killing Anthy, destroying the ideal woman, was their way of usurping the ideal's place in the heart of their partner. It's why the 3rd arc progresses those relationships into pairs of duelist and princess, because they're making strides in their relationship to rival Anthy's rather than replace her. But given that, Onion Prince's qualification as a "good guy" in that context was that he saw Wakaba for who was really was and still loved her, where as all the other duelists saw their lovers preoccupied with the unattainable idealism that Anthy represented and blamed her.
>>144194820
I thought that was a /mu/ meme
>>144198056
>>144208194
watashi banbutsu hyaku fushigi is the best theme
>>144194778
>Utena
>Mary Sue
Does no one understand what this term means? She is so fucking far from a Mary Sue.
>>144208194
Nemuro's, the lyrics were really good.
>>144211432
the problem is that the car symbolized sex but in a way during that arc so did akio. it's pretty strongly implied that as far as 'actors on a stage' relationship and events go yes he was involved in sex on some level with basically everyone, but him being present was chiefly because he was there as an icon of the sex happening at all. It's a weird gray zone of did and didn't considering the lines between visual metaphor, narrative metaphor, and literal images and events are all pretty blurry.
>>144201352
>obnoxious political overtones which run exactly opposite to everything I believe
what?
What did the surfboards symbolize?
>>144197390
You complain about it the same way an illiterate person complains that literature is "just squiggles on paper" then get indignant and defensive when no one has the time you teach you the basics of communication that you failed to pick up during the 14 years everyone else was spending not being a knuckledragging chimp.
Am I the only one who likes the cowbell episode?
>>144218307
Needed more cowbell.
![Shoujo Kakumei Utena 1997 - EP27 [BD 1440x1080 FLAC].mkv_snapshot_17.39_[2015.09.12_17.33.24].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5QAHVAU.jpg "Shoujo Kakumei Utena 1997 - EP27 [BD 1440x1080 FLAC].mkv_snapshot_17.39_[2015.09.12_17.33.24].jpg")
>>144211664
>>144212670
I thought during the Juri car ride she didn't get fucked but instead Ruka that got it from Akio or something.
Remember some anon saying that only those in the front seats did it, I don't know.
>>144216372
Is there by chance some sort of guide out there that outlines and explains all the metaphors and allegorical visual representation in Utena?
>>144221546
Most of the visual motifs are pretty blatant, especially the approaches and environs of duelling arena.
Nanami best girl, too bad it took me to the end of the anime to figure that out.
>>144222304
Being a kitten killing bitch rather weighs against her, even if towards the end you get to feel sorry for her. But the best girl is someone else.
>>144219224
Ruka was really molesty with juri. Juri is a tough lesbian who doesn't take shit from anyone. They fuel and juri says that if she looses, ruka can do whatever he wants with her. She looses and we never see what he did to her. Only thing we see is that she is sad, submissive and not really there. Kinda like a tough butch lesbian who got the d for the first time. And the fact that she rode the akio sex car only adds to the theory.
>>144216574
Something about your problems being able to find you anywhere in the world.
>>144223340
SHUT UP
>>144222565
1. Juri
2. Nanami
3. Kozue
v
4. Utena
5. Shiori
6. Kanae
7. Wakaba
8. Keiko
v
v
v
9. Anshiit
Every girl except Anthy is great though.
>>144201373
Q: What Anthy does with all the pussy juice she collects while being a voyeur?
i've heard this series is amazing but i'll never watch it because I hear the protagonist gets BLACKED and I don't want to see that
>>144226887
She doesn't get blacked.She gets CURRIED.
>>144226887
>purityfags
>>144227241
almost as bad
>>144227300
my heart couldn't take it, especially if I got to like the character
>>144194778
I rewatched it relatively recently, and I still think the show is amazing.
The movie is okay, but it has god tier visuals.
>>144227514
>purityfags
>>144227585
>slut enablers
Nanami is the only pure girl.
>>144227646
>not wanting to be Kozue
>>144194778
I only liked the OST and Akio's car antics.
>>144227514
Utena is not made for waifufaggots, you're supposed to take the characters and their issues seriously instead of projecting your own personal fantasies onto them. The sex scene is neither sexy nor overly emotionally distressing (it's not rape or anything, she just lies back and thinks of dinner) and the guy being slightly darker skinned has fucking no effect on anything.
I don't know why I'm trying to argue this, someone immature enough to give a shit is probably too immature to enjoy a good series like this in the first place.
>>144227812
Sucks being the one thing your slut of a brother wont fuck.
>>144211186
utena "overcoming" her mistakes was just an illusion though. she thought she was becoming stronger the whole time, but she was just entrenching her mistakes, the same as EVERYONE ELSE
utena's character resolution takes place when she 'dies' because she's able to let go, unlike everyone else
utena WAS flawed. the netire story revolves around that flaw. she's NOT a man, but she doesn't need to be. she discovers this at the very end.
>>144229514
Are you the idiot who said >>144195235? Stop trying to make this about how she shouldn't try to be a man, she never WAS trying to be a man. She was trying to be a prince, and the fact that it didn't work out has nothing to do with her gender or a prince's usual gender. Ikuhara isn't writing this shit to tell girls not to act manly.
>>144214893
>>144218307
Oh, the funniest episode.
>>144225843
How can you hate Anthy? For example, I feel sorry about her sometimes.
Nanami - she's the only sane person around, but she's a goddamn bitch.
I can understand why do you like Juri or Kozue though.
>>144229858
I dislike her because she's actively evil, and is also non-white.
I don't really hate her though.
>>144194778
>now that the dust has settled
>names Utena
A-anon... I've something to tell you...
>>144230165
>she's actively evil
Because of circumstances.
>non-white
Oh. Okay.
You forgot that her anime design is based on a minor Gundam character.
>>144230165
अंशी is a witch. That is all.
Usually /a/ approves of little brown girls on principle.
>>144194778
It and Serial Experiments: Lain are the two best anime from a fine art, cultural theory perspective.
If you don't understand it then you just weren't paying attention.
Both shows plot can be roughly explained as "teenage girl dealing with adolescence and the rumour mill" and if you still can't string it together after that then you've no hope and maybe you should read some babby's first philosophy before engaging in high-concept stuff.
If you're not into true appreciation of the good things then you can always just watch the vapid stuff like Gundam or Bleach or whatever.
>>144194778
>was this actually a good anime? I
no
>>144194778
fuck symbolism
>>144195235
>she is literally a deconstruction
People like you piss me off. You're ten thousand years too early to be posting on a board like this with an opinion like that.
What would you do if you got to have a date with Kozue?
>>144230425
>her anime design is based on a minor Gundam character
I've never heard of this. The only passing resemblance I can see is to Marbet from Victory, and she wasn't exactly minor.
>>144234187
Lalah?
No sympathy for whores.
