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Can we agree that JoJo is not actually VERY good and that Araki indulges way too much in his own quirks to mask his obvious flaws as a writer and artist?
It's gotten pretty out of control. If you see the quality of this manga questioned anywhere you'll be bombarbed memes and people thinking you're baiting. This place is no exception. The worst part is when people bring JoJo up every single time they possibly can even if it's completely disjointed from the current topic.
Criticism to this manga is usually met with negative responses directing the person to "go read you generic shounen crap" because the biggest compliment usually brought up by JoJo fanatics is that it doesn't follow a lot of common shounen tropes.
Yes, JoJo has huge flaws. Plot holes, retcons, asspulls, repetitive parts, etc. But it's also one of the most inventive and creative manga ever. And definitely super entertaining. Personally, I liked it more during parts 2-4, where humor was more prevalent, and I think JoJolion is not very good, but it's fun stuff overall.
>>143881386
bt, sbr and jojolion are the only ones that make sense...ironically, also the end fight of part 4, everything else is fucking retarded
>>143881386
You're talking from your own experiences, right?
I see how it might be hard to try to talk intelligently about Jojo. It's very famous show and filled with many memorable quotes and situations to meme with. Naturally people want to discuss those rather than bickering about less interesting stuff.
>>143881386
It's entertaining anon. I don't see people praising JoJo as the pinnacle of writing. It's not meant to be some ultra-realistic manga that makes you think. Just sit back, relax and read/watch.
It started out amazing and just went downhill from there until we get whatever fucking garbage airing currently.
Because it's not a fucking novella, its a saturday morning cartoon. It's not there to be a super well written story that rly maks u think, it's just supposed to be a fun action manga which it does well. Araki has managed to go more than 20 years on the same exact series and still kept it fresh and fun, which is all that matters when you're supposed to be a weekly comic.
It managed to avoid the failings of most other shonens where they downhill after they get popular and just drag on and on until it's painful to read, as Araki reinvents the cast and setting every 100~ish chapters and even rebooted the entire concept of the manga like twice.
Jojo is not free from standard shonen tropes, but considering it made a lot of them it kind of gets a pass on that.
Yes, Araki sucks at consistency and plot sometimes but thats run-of-the-mill when you read shonen and should be expected.
>>143881542
>But it's also one of the most inventive and creative manga ever
It just don't get where this comes from. He's come up with a lot of original trademarks but he's repeats them Ad Nauseam to this day.
>Whacky clothes
>Fights ends with implausible keikaku
>Whacky poses
>Characters monologue and speak in ways no human being actually talks or behaves
>Completely abuses floating time IN A FUCKING MANGA (aka a art form without a set runtime). Characters talking, monologuing and planning in presumably seconds; character explaining their abilities (even if nothing in-story requires it or is even counter-productive) or talking about whatever Araki searched on Google last week for pages.
Even his flaws are inventive trademarks now
>Undynamic and uneasthetic character drawing
It's just a silly pose.
>Blatant plothole
Araki forgets lol
>it's just supposed to be a fun action manga which it does well
>sucks at consistency and plot sometimes but thats run-of-the-mill when you read shonen and should be expected
Don't you find this mentality insulting to artists devoted to the exact same medium and genre who create more engaging material?
I rather admire that JoJo fans understand why he scraps things from the plot, rather than just calling him a hack and getting mad. For instance, replacing hamon with stands was a very sudden but accepted change. It's not that he forgot about hamon, hamon just sucks. The last 2 parts of your post have nothing to do with Araki, you say "it's gotten pretty out of control" as if Araki himself tells people what to post.
My tip to you is to not take JoJo or JoJo fans seriously. I don't know why you seem hell-bent on making sure everyone accepts your critique. You really do sound like you're expecting a battle shounen when JoJo is more of a parody of one, which might piss you off if it's what you like. Or maybe you were expecting a battle seinen for intellectuals like yourself. I don't know.
>>143881386
Didn't Araki admitted he has a pretty bad memory? I'm pretty sure he mentioned at some point which i guess its an excuse but it does explain why there are so many plotpoints lost in parts at times, also why he is almost incapable of drawing his old characters the way he used too (beyond artstyle changes). Granted i still feel he is pretty bad at writing endings, a lot of parts end in rather anticlimactic or sudden ways, i still feel i would had liked part 5 more than i did if it had a better conclusion, but that is subjective.
>>143882792
>The last 2 parts of your post have nothing to do with Araki
My post doesn't have a fucking thesis and if it had one it certainly wouldn't be JoJo is bad. It's more focused on it's impact here.
>You really do sound like you're expecting a battle shounen
What the fuck could lead you into this thought. I may have not gone in dept about why it's not very good, but I definitely didn't imply I was looking to satisfy my "shounen battle craving".
JoJo is literally a battle shounen
1. Battle are the main focus (from Day 1 which is pretty unique because a lot of manga only become this long into their run)
2. It was published on a shoune magazine for most of it's run.
P.S. shounen isn't a genre.
>when JoJo is more of a parody of one
Lmao. This is a first.
>Or maybe you were expecting a battle seinen for intellectuals like yourself
Something not for passive aggresive faggots would suffice.
>>143881386
Yes, it's all style over substance. Doesn't stop everyone for felating Cowboy Bebop as the greatest thing to happen to anime. Don't see what's wrong with people dismissing you for criticising aspects that aren't essential to JoJo.
>>143883410
>Doesn't stop everyone for felating Cowboy Bebop as the greatest thing to happen to anime
They're wrong too, maybe?
>>143882683
>Characters monologue and speak in ways no human being actually talks or behaves
So just like all anime, movies, TV shows and video games, both from east and west?
>>143881386
>The worst part is when people bring JoJo up every single time they possibly can even if it's completely disjointed from the current topic.
I actually hate this.
>Character manipulates time in any way or even just teleports
>DUDE ZA WARUDO LMAO
>>143882128
>started out amazing
>muh ripple
opinion discarded
>>143882683
If you care about plot in ANY medium then your opinion is worth less than morning
>>143881386
I absolutely agree. Part 4 and Part 8 is where he peaks because he's better with a loose plot.
All the other parts,especially the much hyped part 7, are piss poor, I only sat through them to see what JoJolion was about.
>>143883603
The cool part about that was that it had heavy limitations which makes for interesting fights. Now shitty stands can just use whatever dumb fucking bullshit asspull they want. Stands are objectively less entertaining.
The first parts are great, but they keep getting worse. It's like the writing style is still stuck in the 80s. Araki can come up with some interesting concepts but he always throws them out the window because he doesn't know what to do with them. I read the manga years ago because someone told me all the powers were really unique and used in creative ways, but they are really limited by the author. At some point the inconsistencies and retcons become too much.
>>143884107
What?
>>143884687
>complaining about asspulls
>while complimenting part 2
opinion discarded even more so
>>143881386
>Araki indulges way too much in his own quirks to mask his obvious flaws as a writer and artist
This is probably true but in no way does it prevent Jojo from being good. Araki has his shortcomings as a writer and it's a fairly shallow series, but it just has a very narrow scope- it does what it does extremely well, and 'what it does' is creative powers, fights and scenarios with charismatic characters. That's enough to make it great. Also, I give Araki a lot of credit for the bright idea of dividing up the series into generational parts, most series could not even dream of staying fresh 100+ volumes in. It's actually gotten better over time, it's really impressive. His art varies, but when he hits his stride it's pretty much an iconic style and that's also impressive.
I'm not a 'Jojo fanatic' though, I prefer HxH because I think it combines similar creative elements with more in depth plot/characterization.
if you gay, jojo is good for you.
