>high schoolers that just started senior year are doing Calculus
Nice realism there TMS
>>143806142
my school had calc 1 in junior year, and calc 2 in senior.
>American "education"
>>143806142
>High Schoolers playing kid games
dude thats common even here in Mexico
>>143806142
Just because you had burger education doesn't mean the rest of the world does
>>143806142
that's exactly what happened at my school
>Americans
>>143806142
What? Where are you from? I'm American and I had calculus in sophomore, junior, and senior year.
When I went through high school about 6 years ago, I never even knew how to derivate.
I still got accepted into a STEM degree on a good university.
>>143806142
I'm pretty sure that's normal
Don't reply, don't bump
True, i started calculus at freshman year.
>>143806142
I learned that shit in junior year dude.
>>143806447
bump :^)
>>143806142
I literally took Calculus AB as a senior. There were a bunch of juniors in my class, too.
I had a very shit high school education in a third world country.
And I only saw calculus on university.
So I guess that first world countries might have it.
>>143806441
>must be great being a spic or a nigger in burgerland
>>143806351
Mexico is far from being the shittiest third world country m8.
For example you are better than 90% of south america, 100% of africa and 60% of asia.
>inb4 everyone and their mother took calculus as a middle school student
I went to one of the most competitive highschools in the US and if you didn't learn all the math on your own then the most you could do was take Calculus 1 and 2 in Junior year and Calculus 3 and Elementary Linear Algebra in Senior year.
It's certainly common enough for many to finish up their senior year with calculus 1 or "AB," but it's also just as common for people to never see calculus until university.
But on /a/ everyone is a genius mathematician that took partial differential equations in 5th grade.
>>143806753
>his elementary school didn't teach number theory
>his middle school didn't teach real and complex analysis
>his high school didn't teach algebraic topology and manifolds
>still thinks he has the right to talk
Lmao look at this retard. Kill yourself.
>>143806315
>>143806357
I took calc 1 my freshman year and I live in the fucking Southern US.
I was in a mediocre school in south america and we had calculus in the second to last year.
I have completely forgotten almost everything about it (and a lot of geometry too) but I just don't get how MC could keep on failing so hard for so long. I can't say I would ace them but I'm fairly sure that I could get back to speed pass the tests in a month.
Calculus and "Advanced Functions" (shitty pre-calc) were mandatory Grade 12 courses if you want to take anything math related in University.
The only remotely hard thing about these courses was working with complex trig identities as it actually required a brain capable of abstract thought.
>>143806142
But quite a few people took Calc 1 in sophmore year and junior year.
>>143806753
>>It's certainly common enough for many to finish up their senior year with calculus 1 or "AB," but it's also just as common for people to never see calculus until university.
This. My city was sorta ghetto, and there were definitely some people that took AP calc 1 or 2, but that was like 15%-25% of students.
>>143807135
Well yeah as long as you keep practicing you could do that.
>>143807362
>The only remotely hard thing about these courses was working with complex trig identities as it actually required a brain capable of abstract thought.
You can't be serious. Take an intro to proofs class if you want something that actually remotely resembles abstract thought.
>>143806753
>But on /a/ everyone is a genius mathematician that took partial differential equations in 5th grade.
That and I'm also 6'3" with an 8 inch ween
>>143807420
What was MC's problem then? Did he really keep gossiping about highschool shit with glasses the entire time instead of studying?
I live in a 3rd world country and we just classed everything math between algebra and geometry in high school. What are the lessons of calculus
>>143806142
High schoolers do calc here in Canada
At my school, the classes you took depended on how stupid you were or weren't.
We had "Algebra B" for retards, algebra 1, 2, and geometry for regular students, calculus 1, 2, and trigonometry for college prep.
Keep in mind that this was in the sticks of northeast Arkansas, where our graduating class held 27 people.
>>143807453
I did take a similar class first year in uni. And it is nothing like anything in highschool that much is certain.
I was talking about highschool and how the calculus actually taught was very basic and that the only actual thinking, i.e. something you have to actually plan out and think over, something not based off a formula or concrete method, came from trig.
>>143807739
That's wrong though. You took a shitty calc class that only covered definitions and computations
http://library.msri.org/books/Book36/files/judson.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiw2fe7veDNAhVIVj4KHVI1AJEQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNF4h4Hjj14eT1VH_UpEAmzgWU-i2g
Nipponese might never see calculus in high school, but many will end after taking the equivalent of pre-calc, trig, and calc 1.
So yes, it's realistic.
>>143807898
Fucked link by accident
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://library.msri.org/books/Book36/files/judson.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiw2fe7veDNAhVIVj4KHVI1AJEQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNF4h4Hjj14eT1VH_UpEAmzgWU-i2g
I went to an Amerifat public high school and I took Calc senior year
Do places outside of California not have AP classes or something?
>>143807977
OP is probably a dumbshit who didn't take APs.
>>143808009
Yeah but, like... not even having heard of them?
>>143806142
Integration is taught in some European countries too.
Of course you only learn how to actually practically integrate rather than being taught the proper analytical foundation that leads up to the Riemann integral, so it's not like this is hard or anything.
Part of why I didn't find this show particularly believable that an adult who graduated from university is supposed to be struggling with this.
>>143807542
In BC and I never did. Fucking hated math. Was more of an essay kid.
>>143808085
>he was only taugt Riemann integration and thought that it was hard
>>143808041
The characters in the show all were doing it, it wasn't optional like it is in the US.
>>143808085
Desu I would struggle if I was thrown back into HS and had to take Calculus 2 again despite getting an A and a 5 on the BC exam.
And you must have went to a shitty high school if your teacher didn't spend time making you solve integrals as Riemann sums and just skipped straight to solving them practically.
But struggling with integrating a quadratic is pretty unbelievable for anyone who has ever taken calculus within the last 10 years.
>>143806583
Man i'm from Mexico, from a shitty school that even in my country has bad reputation and i got calculus in senior year and statistics .
From where are you?
>>143807836
If you are talking about the highschool class then yeah that's all they had to teach because once the "real" calculus starts you needed to learn things barely touched upon such as writing actual proofs beyond calculations+therefore statements and there wasn't enough time to teach everyone how to do so in addition to covering the basics.
I went back and checked onine for the course and I remembered the 5 month course was further divided into two parts: one half calculus and one half vectors. You can see the whole curriculum here if you want.
http://courseware.cemc.uwaterloo.ca/11?gid=106
>>143808229
I don't think it's that crazy for someone in an academically-inclined private school to be doing relatively easy problems like those at the start of senior year
Some high schools in NY had Multivariable Caculus in senior year.
>>143808276
>And you must have went to a shitty high school if your teacher didn't spend time making you solve integrals as Riemann sums and just skipped straight to solving them practically.
You're a damn retard if you think Riemann integration sums are used to solve integrals. It's used to prove the existence and convergence of the integral and the values of almost all integrals you encounter in an intro course is found using the fundamental theorem.
>>143808370
This was one High School that I found had it
http://www.bxscience.edu/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=3719&type=d&termREC_ID=&pREC_ID=78217
You guys have to remember. In the US, the calc sequence, along with linear algebra and differential equations, are COLLEGE COURSES
they are that mathematically illiterate.
>>143808396
No I forget what the actual name is but we had to replace shit with n, (n+1), etc and whatever before we ever learned how to properly integrate.
It doesn't really matter though because math is just a toolbox for anyone who isn't autistic.
>>143808481
Also, adding some English in there along with History would make a great educational plan for the intelligent and curious student.
>>143808506
It's ok if you're too stupid to understand the underlying framework, dear engineer. Now don't you have an ass you have to kiss in order to keep your codemonkey job? Why don't you move along?
>>143808276
>And you must have went to a shitty high school if your teacher didn't spend time making you solve integrals as Riemann sums and just skipped straight to solving them practically.
Obviously you are introduced to the vague idea of how integrals work, but you're not taught the underlying analytical foundation.
The concept of convergence, the possibility for infinite series to have a finite sum (I doubt most high schoolers could present me a mathematically rigorous proof that 0.999... = 1), the construction of real numbers from Dedekind cuts and their identity as equivalence classes of the limits of rational Cauchy sequences, all that is poorly understood when still in high school and not taught in great detail.
You only learn that properly in the first Analysis lectures in university.
>>143808164
We use these here in Ontario
>>143808481
>That troll image
See >>143807929
Even the "superior" Asian curriculum doesn't teach much beyond American schools, and basically nothing is different if you took advanced/accelerated/gifted/AP courses.
Fuck off back to /sci/ math major autismal. Muh 300k starting.
>>143808369
Fuck off Brayan.
>>143808481
>that reply
Poor compensating brainlet has to get one word in
>>143808612
Why are we bringing Brayan into this conversation
I wenr to a relatively ghetto school and there were dozens i think in calculus as juniors, most of them black and mexican. I say relatively because it was one of the safest mostly minority schools you'll see.
Oh look, it's another "Let's make uninformed assumptions about the US" thread. Fascinating, Euro gentlemen, tell me more about our country which you don't live in and have never visited. I've been to many of your countries, and even during a few months as a tourist, I guarantee I've absorbed more of your culture and norms than you have of ours.
>>143808574
>Engineer
Kekku. I'm amedfagnot an engineer. I just took math for fun until it started getting boring (proofs).
>>143808684
All mexican highschoolers are named Brayan or Deyanira. It's common knowledge.
>there are people in this thread that took multivariable calculus in college and not in secondary school
>>143808506
I think you are talking about limits.
Math sucks, failed Trig and never tried again in High School math. Now I took a year off after HS to get money and remember zero. Is college an option?
t. blogger
please ban me so i can have a reason to end my life.
>>143808734
>proofs are boring
Yeah that's what all brainlets say lel.
>>143808734
until they started getting hard*
>>143808763
No he isn't. He's talking about integrating polynomials using the fundamental theorem of calculus, which is pretty much the very first thing you do in the calc class I teach at the local primary school.
>>143808802
Too bad medicine makes more money than math! BTFO all the way back to /sci/ and /r/math!
>>143808765
just go to college for arts or something. major in education with a minor in some shitty science like geology.
>>143808851
All that money won't make you smart enough to handle proofs, oneesan
>>143808754
>tfw you took "consumer math" instead of calc
feels fantastic tbqhwu/a/senpai
>>143808754
oh fuck you
there was a time where I could do that with my eyes closednot really, I forgot all about it today
>>143808851
>being a 7 year slave makes more money than a math major going straight into quantitative analysis
>being an overworked and constantly stressed out family doctor who doesn't even do anything major makes more money than a math grad working in Big Data
>being a retard handler makes more money than a math grad doing research in quantum computing
Lmao. This is the sort of delusions these brainlets must convince themselves of in order to sleep at night.
>>143808765
>failed trig and never tried again
I "passed" my math classes all the way up through trig with the lowest score you could possibly get for passing (60% flat). Then I decided to stop being retarded and got As in my calculus courses that I had to sign lock-in agreements to take and a 5 on the BC exam.
The answer is just stop being retarded.
>>143808851
Lel
Someone's never spoken to math grads from top ten schools that go straight into finance
I went to a high school where our math courses were catered to our preferred career paths. STEM bros got to take advanced algebra and calculus, and the rest rode the short bus.
Just fuck off already /sci/. No one thinks you're smart.
/lit/ is leagues smarter than you, and they're not nearly as obnoxious
>>143808481
>C++/Lua
Why C++ instead of C? Keep in mind, I'm not asking because C++ would be 'too hard', but because why would you immediately sully C with baked in classes (as opposed to having students manually constructing structures with associated vtables first in order to understand what is needed for polymorphism), half assed accidental template meta-programming and a grammar undecidable by a Turing machine?
>>143808898
Who cares?
>>143808963
>PCP
>overworked
Keklmao.
>implying I'm not going to make 200k starting as a neurologist while you're being autistic for the same amount of time in school for your PhD in math and making less than half as much as I am
>implying you won't master out anyway
Just go back to your autism board desu.
Why does anime attract so many math majors with superiority complexes?
>>143809079
My brother of african-american descent.
I failed all my classes and never got past algebra 1
But at least I can draw anime tiddies
>>143808744
I only knew one and he was a smart motherfucker. This wasnt Mexico though,however, he had lived there previously. This is irrelevant I know
>>143809079
Sorry your liberal arts degree only got you a job at a Starbucks, /lit/-kun
>>143809099
>he thinks he's going to make 200k starting
Buddy you're gonna have a rough time
And this is coming from another medfag. Are you in medschool already
>>143809099
>still dreaming
Keep up the good "work" kek. I'm having a barrel of laughs here.
>Why does anime attract so many math majors with superiority complexes?
It was you who thought that you're above everyone else because you couldn't do proofs my little man. Lmao I bet you're a manlet too.
![[WhyNot] Phi Brain - Kami no Puzzle - 06v3 [C08D336A].mkv_snapshot_21.55_[2013.09.27_15.09.08].png](https://i.imgur.com/rrMQtTm.jpg "[WhyNot] Phi Brain - Kami no Puzzle - 06v3 [C08D336A].mkv_snapshot_21.55_[2013.09.27_15.09.08].png")
>>143809079
>/lit/ smarter than /sci/Both boards are for idiots, you aren't going to find intellectuals on 4chan of all places.
>>143809079
>/lit/ is leagues smarter than you
>not nearly as obnoxious
>Definitely did this shit in highschool
>Was known to be one of the best students at maths in years since I did calculations instantly in my head
>Can't for the life of me remember how to do this anymore even though I can program circles around my work seniors now
I could never figure what the practical purpose of this and a bunch of other advanced maths stuff so they just dropped out of my head as the years went by. Seriously, what are these things used for o' math degree and higher holders?
>>143806730
I live in one of the shittiest countries, we still take calc 1 before senior.
What is the difference between the first episode that aired, and the batch that was released?
>>143809149
>implying I won't
http://www.google.com/search?q=average+neurologist+salary
>218k
I'll keep dreaming all the way to my paycheck.
>>143809157
See above.
>>143809084
>undecidable grammar
You want to run that by me again, /g/aylord?
>>143809230
The first episode had only the first episode while the batch had all thirteen episodes.
>>143806142
I had calculus in my high school inbrazil.
I remeber absolutely nothing of the subject though. It was the last subject of the year and i already had enough grade to pass so i didn't give a shit.
>>143806730
>Mexico greater than most of South America
kek
But yeah, calc in high school is not surprising. Only Amerifats would be surprised by that.
>>143809268
But how come the batch was released before everything had aired?
>>143809208
bridges and airplanes use these
for example, for a suspension bridge distributing its load along a suspension cable, knowing this stuff could help you determine how much cable you need and even the curve you need to hold the cables at
>>143809234
average isn't starting lad
you can expect that mid-career, if at that. you'll probably hit six figures starting, though. Should have gone into radiology like me
>>143809300
All I can say is
>>143809294
But most American Schools have calculus you dimwit, usually in junior year though some guys take it sophmore year.
>>143809234
>using Google
>average = starting
>doesn't know how many connections and status you need to even reach that position
>this stupid
Lmao. Sasuga.
>>143809079
>STEM majors
Get paid
>English majors
Die poor
Who's smart again?
It's pointless to teach calculus in high school desu.
You're gonna get the subject in university if it's relevant to your career either way.
>>143809208
>what's the purpose of higher math
Literally everything advanced that computers do and more is because of higher math. Video/Audio compression, cryptography and cryptocurrency, big data, DSP, computer vision, computer graphics, machine learning, all fields of engineering, financial analysis, the list goes on.
>>143806142
> Private German School
> Started Calculus in year 10
I taught at a Japanese Public High School and they don't tackle calc at all. Though in ReLife it's a private school that focuses on academic achievement, so it's not strange for them to be doing calc in year 12.
>>143809148
>hurr being really good at math makes you smart!
Monogatari shat all over you pretentious cunts by having Araragi himself admit that being good at math didn't make him smart. Get destroyed
>>143809208
Derivatives represent a rate of change, so if you want to represent any kind of system mathematically to understaind its behavior you are gonna end up having to use calculs at some point
>>143809342
>http://www.google.com/search?q=average+neurologist+starting+salary
>190k
What a huge difference.
Radiology is boring and I would want to kill myself if I did that for the rest of my life.
>>143809410
>a shitty anime written by a moron said so, so it must be true
>>143809248
I said
>grammar undecidable by a Turing machine
You rephrased that as
>undecidable grammar
which tells me you know what I'm talking about, so shut your trap.
>>143806142
I'm from Ecuador, a country 20 years behind technologically compared to first world countries, and we started with the basics of calculus in junior year and got into it during our senior year (It was compulsory too). What undeveloped dictatorship do you come from?
>>143809401
It's a good idea to get someone accustomed to it early instead of throwing someone balls deep into a college level math class unprepared.
Adults are harder to teach than kids, you know.
>>143809300
They are relesing all the eps together to pander to the retarded Netflix generation and their stupid binge culture
>>143809460
Only problems can be undecidable or decidable you stupid idiot.
>>143809435
Look into it more
They have much higher ceilings than neurologists.And all of medicine is suicide-tier. you should have jewed out as much as you could. have fun being on the lower rung of medicine
>>143806142
Fuck, I know right? Most of the characters don't even have actual noses.
What is this fantasy shit?
>>143806315
They offered Calculus I and II in my public highschool. Try again yuropoor.
>>143809476
You could make that argument for anything.
Why wait, teach kids rocket science to get them accustomed early!
>>143808300
>From where are you?
Nice try Juancisco
>>143809512
>medicine is suicide tier
>higher ceiling
>Jew out as much as possible
Pajeet detected. I didn't go into medicine for money.
It's just a happy accident that I make more starting than autistic math majors will right before they retire.
>>143809401
>It's pointless to teach calculus in high school desu.
>basic qualitative physics isn't useful
>probability/stat isn't useful
>developing abstract and critical thinking isn't useful
>>143809548
We could if we can develop the right curriculum and don't have the cancerous "no children left behind" mentality.
>>143809426
It's honestly a lot easier just to code the logic instead of writing it up in notations.
>>143809394
>He fell for the stem meme
>>143809595
What?
>>143809595
>It's honestly a lot easier to just code up something without proving convergence/existence and watch my motherboard fry.
>>143809588
>teaching kids rocket science
Absolutely not.
>remove no child left behind
>change curriculum to /sci/ image posted earlier
Enjoy 90% of students dropping out of middle school.
I bet you believe in extremist eugenics and think you wouldn't be culled as well.
>>143809576
>It's just a happy accident that I make more starting than autistic math majors will right before they retire.
You should consider that it's fairly easy to get into finance when having studied maths if you want a lot of money.
However, the point remains that studying maths is a test of character and ultimately intelligence. The fact that you have to resort to something lesser simply means that you weren't up for it.
>>143809682
>Absolutely not.
Do you think rocket science is difficult or something? It's literally just basic kinematics. I can teach a sixth grader the countability of the rationals for fuck's sake.
>Enjoy 90% of students dropping out of middle school.
I will you stupid fuck lmao.
>I bet you believe in extremist eugenics and think you wouldn't be culled as well.
>implying I think IQ is genetic
>implying it is
Nice projection and retarded jumps in logic. It's clear how you have no idea what the flying fuck your'e talking about.
>>143809713
>test of character
No.
>test of intelligence
Yes.
I'm probably dumber than a math major but again, who cares?
I'm not going to get upset when people tell me my job could be done by a sufficiently advanced computer, but math majors go into autistic rages when you say math is a toolbox.
>>143809496
And parsing grammar is a problem. Parsing C++ is an undecidable problem in the general case, so any given compiler will necessarily not be able to parse all C++ programs and decide if they are or are not syntactically valid.
>>143809588
As an ex-educator, I can tell you there isn't one 'right' curriculum. Children learn at different rates, and some are just incapable of learning certain concepts at certain ages. Trying to cram in information into a 'curriculum' and get every kid to learn something at a certain time in their life is inefficient.
Personally, from my experience, I believe curriculum should be completely thrown out. You don't need mathematics. What you need is the tools to learn mathematics efficiently.
I believe children should focus on cognitive development through games, developing memory, fluid intelligence, concentration, attention and inhibition control. Once these areas have been sufficiently developed, a child can pursue any number of academic fields quickly and effectively in a relatively small amount of time compared to their peers.
Using this system a child has the tools to tackle advanced mathematics, by themselves, without having to deal with material paced for the average of their peers.
In the modern world there is so much to learn that it is impractical trying to cram it all in at school. It is better to give students the tools to learn quickly, by themselves, so they can tackle anything the world throws at them just in time, at that moment.
>>143809401
The issue isn't the practicality of the information. Neuroplasticity is positively correlated with education: the more you learn, the more you can learn. The calculus taught in high school is low-hanging fruit - it is easy to learn, easy to teach, and has practical uses in some disciplines.
>>143808964
No, the answer is to simply look at math as just any other language. It's there to intrepid everything around us in numerical value. You don't have to be 'smart" to learn it. Simply, you just have to apply yourself.
>>143809858
Good.
>>143809763
>the countability of the rationals
Show me your lesson plan then
Burger here. I'm the most middle of the road person. I live in Arizona, which is 48th in school financing when compared to other states. This was I took when I was in highschool.
>Algebra 1-2
>Geometry
>Algebra 3-4
>Pre-Calculus
And yes, they do offer Calculus I and II. Hell, some seniors and juniors at my school were past that and taking math at the nearby college.
I didn't pass my 11th grade maths and was still accepted in College but I never had Calculus in any of my course because it wasn't related.
>>143809943
What's your major, anon?
>>143809763
>implying I'm talking about basic kinematic "rocket science"
You don't need to change anything in the curriculum if you want that then. It is already taught.
I thought it was obvious I was talking about much more advanced "rocket science." You know, the kind that would involve fluid mechanics, orbital mechanics, etc. Good luck teaching that to children.
>I will you stupid fuck
Enjoy the collapse of your country then. Only an idiot would think it would be acceptable for 90% of the population to be that uneducated.
>Implying intelligence doesn't have genetic factors
Lmao.
>>143809763
I totally agree with you, people underestimate children. I f you tell a kid that if he doesn't study he'll end up as a labourer, you bet your ass he will start feeling some pressure and looking for aid from his parents and family to be smarter. But, since they can see how even the most retarded ass finishes high school with satisfactory grades achieved thanks to teachers giving free marks and parents bitching about the stress their kids have, they don't take education seriously and just waste their life away til the moment they realise nobody will hire them and start selling meth/prostitution/stabbing people because of their lack of education and real life experience.
>>143809394
Does anything beside CS and engineering in STEM actually pay?
>>143809864
>I believe children should focus on cognitive development through games, developing memory, fluid intelligence, concentration, attention and inhibition control. Once these areas have been sufficiently developed, a child can pursue any number of academic fields quickly and effectively in a relatively small amount of time compared to their peers.
How would you implement these cognitive development exercises? How much time out of the school day would be allocated for them?
>>143809856
>Maths are for idiots! I'll make more money than you hurr hurr
>200k startin! hurr hurr
>hurr what are you a pajeet? I didn't get into medicine for money
Jesus, why do you try so hard to prove yourself in an anonymous image board.
>>143810003
Lawyering?
>>143808845
Don't you use limits for that and have a variable approach infinity? Maybe I'm just forgetting what I learned.
>>143809980
Desktop Publishing, it's not really University level at all like in the US, but in Quebec you have High School, College (usually 2-3 years) then you have University. I don't even remember high school maths.
>>143809005
>Lel
You don't belong here go away
shoo shoo
>>143809981
>You know, the kind that would involve fluid mechanics, orbital mechanics, etc. Good luck teaching that to children.
Good job shifting the goalpost, retard. Also if children could grasp the concept of energy they could grasp the concept of orbital mechanics.
>Implying intelligence doesn't have genetic factors
Cite your sources you stupid faggot.
>implying it is THE deciding factor
>implying IQ even factors into cognitive/mathematical ability
Cease your dumbassery
>>143806142
>needing calculus to work in modern day retard society
>>143809981
Genetics don't affect intelligence unless you are a genius or a retard. If you believe otherwise, then you are just lying to yourself to feel better about the only thing you think you are good at.
>>143809667
>>143809660
I guess my brain is just wired differently then. I was horrible at actually writing down the working for math problems. Even surprised teachers and lecturers at points when I tried to explain my shortcuts to them. Thinking about it now, I'm actually seeing that same kind of look before my coworkers leave the trickier problems to me. You can have all these math notations floating around on the board trying to say something but it doesn't make a lick of sense to me even but I'll work out how I need to structure the program and pull data in less than a minute.
>>143809539
>>143806878
There's a difference between an "option" and a "requirement."
>>143810091
you could say that about a lot of things though desu
>>143808331
What HS did you go to? What city?
Markhamfag here, going to McMaster
Knew you were an Ontariofag from your first post
>>143809925
>teach him the heuristics of limits
>introduce to him the concept of countable infinity via N
>introduce to him the concept of bijections
>show him finite products of countable sets are countable
>make N x N array of numbers that maps bijectively onto Q
>show him this is a bijection from N x N to Q
>if he doesn't believe that |Q| = |N|, count off the elements of the array by going diagonally
>ask him to try to count R
>he will say he can't, and show him that |R| > |Q| = |N|
Not that fucking hard. The kid went on to win a local mathematics competition.
>>143810060
No that's derivatives. The two FTCs do not use limits in its statements.
>>143810074
>moving the goalposts
Is it that hard to believe that you misinterpreted something?
>>143810060
There definitely is a way to do integration through using Riemann sums and limits without resorting to using the fundamental theorem of calculus.
But most curriculum don't really dwell upon this and do integrals by reversing the derivatives you learned in calc.
>>143809930
calculus isn't that hard, but we didn't have pre-calc in high school.
>mfw calculus questions in entrance exams for universities
completely skipped them and passed anyway, but let's be honest, this is a third world country and none of the unis here are worth a damn
>>143809084
C is better than C++ for teaching but they're both pretty bad. They're good for teaching about the relationship between machine and language but not as good for teaching theoretical computer science fundamentals. Some things, like currying become difficult if almost impossible to teach using a language like C. Most universities are using Python now, I was taugh in Scheme (Lisp), my preference for a teaching language would be Scala since it is very consistent and has no "special rules".
>>143810059
>Lawyer
>STEM
>>143810074
I didn't shift any goalposts. I simply clarified what I meant because you were too retarded to grasp the context. Rocketry with kinematics is already taught to middle school kids because they ignore everything but forces that are given in numbers.
To actually deal with the orbital and fluid mechanics involved as well as the optimal consumption of fuel and the fucking steering of the rocket would be beyond the grasp of a child regardless of how smart the child is.
>cite sources
You made the claim first, retard, so you can go first and prove to me that there aren't any generic factors involved with intelligence.
>IQ doesn't factor into mathematical or intellectual ability
I didn't say it did. I never mentioned IQ; that was only you.
Intelligence does factor into mathematical ability you fucking idiot. It factors into every study you can possible think of.
>hurrrrrdurrrrr everyone can be Einstein or Pauli if they try hard enough
Just kill yourself.
>>143806142
>>143806315
Calculus was offered at my high school along with Advanced Placement Calc AB/BC for the more advanced students. You could take both as early as junior year.
Granted, I don't know how California schools are supposed to compare to the rest of the country.
pic related
Wow ameridumbs are a disgrace.
In Canada you take advanced functions (precalculus) and then calculus in grade 12. They're both required courses if you want to get into any worthwhile program at a good university.
Is it America that's stupid? Or tripfags?
>>143810178
Gloucester High School in Ottawa, currently at Carleton. It was a decent HS except for the couple people every year who get shot/stabbed in the housing complexes directly beside the school.
>>143810112
Nah, you are just retarded, m8
>>143806201
This
American here, calculus is available in High School, Bear is fucking stupid
>>143810325
This. Took Precalc+Calc AB my junior year and Stats my senior year.
>>143810354
Tripfags. Most American schools offer Calc AB at junior or senior levels to the general student body, many high schools offer students the ability to study at unis if they are significantly advanced.
>>143810306
>You made the claim first, retard, so you can go first and prove to me that there aren't any generic factors involved with intelligence.
>what is burden of proof
>literally being this stupid
>Intelligence does factor into mathematical ability you fucking idiot. It factors into every study you can possible think of.
>conflating intelligence with IQ
>Feynman had an IQ of 125 so therefore he can't do math as well as Einstein
What a dumbass lmao.
>hurrrrrdurrrrr everyone can be Einstein or Pauli if they try hard enough
>implying mathematical abilities and intuition cannot be honed from practice
>using early 20th century scientists as a measure of intelligence
>Einstein is smart
Fucking embarrassing.
>>143810325
AP classes are offered everywhere as long as you aren't stuck in a shit school
t. Arizonan that took Calc AB and BC in high school
>>143810112
what the fuck
just learn higher math and become even better
>>143810032
The whole school day. My system would follow thus:
Grade 1
70% cognitive development - 30% free play
Free play being children just left to their own devices with puzzles, objects, playgrounds and so on.
Grade 2
80% cognitive development - 20% free play
Grade 3
70% cognitive development - 20% free play - 10% self-study
Self-study: Students pick and choose disciplines, study themselves and present findings to class/teacher. Eg: Read a book about plants - tell your class about it.
Grade 4
60% cognitive development - 20% free play - 20% self-study
Grade 5
50% cognitive development - 20% free play - 20% self-study - 10% self-guided projects
Self-guided projects: Students get to create, implement and execute projects around their school. Eg: Clean-up project - student leader creates project, gets go-ahead from teacher, gathers other students who are interested in participating, cleans-up the school, writes a report, presents it to class & teacher. Projects ramp-up in complexity as students continue their education.
Grade 6
40% cognitive development - 20% free play - 20% self-study - 20% self-guided projects
Grade 7
30% cognitive development - 20% free play - 20% self-study - 20% self-guided projects - 10% work-placement
Work-placement: Students can pick and choose work places near their school to learn new skills and get experience.
Grade 8
30% cognitive development - 10% free play - 20% self-study - 20% self-guided projects - 20% work-placement
Grade 9
30% cognitive development - 10% free play - 10% self-study - 10% self-guided projects - 10% work-placement - 30% optional allocation
Optional allocation: Students allocate percentage of their time to either self-study, projects or work placements.
cont'd
>>143810216
>ask him to try to count R
>he will say he can't
Which doesn't show there isn't a bijection between R and N. Now, to be fair, you never claimed that you could teach a 6th grader this specifically, but being able able to index the rationals diagonally is totally something a 6th grader might comprehend.
>>143810433
>mentioned IQ again
>Last statement is "Einstein was dumb lol"
Didn't even read your post. Here's your final (You).
>>143809118
My nigga.
>>143810290
if you think scala is consistent or well-designed (it's such a mish-mash of paradigms and features that this video exists: https://youtu.be/TS1lpKBMkgg), Haskell will blow your mind, let alone SML.
>>143810485
> t. Matt Damon
>>143810354
Nah, that tripfag is just an idiot. And I'm pretty sure most of the people "confirming" his delusions are idiots who were never eligible to take Calculus and are thus unaware of it being offered, people at the mercy of bad public schools (typically in shitty counties and/or states), or people from outside of the USA who want to bitch about the US for whatever reason.
That said, public education here is a real mixed bag with factors that include but are not limited to where the school is, what kind of teachers it's attracted, student demographics, economic breakdowns, etc.
>>143810433
Feynman had an average IQ of 125, but his mathematical ability was genius tier. Everything else was subpar, bringing him down to 125. The fucker couldn't even spell.
Stop perpetuating the "hard work beats genetics" meme.
It literally doesn't even come close. It doesn't matter how hard that average kid studies on his ochem test. I'll just study for an hour and shit all over his score.
>>143810493
Cont'd
Grade 10
20% cognitive development - 10% free play - 10% self-study - 10% self-guided projects - 10% work-placement - 30% optional allocation
Optional allocation: Students allocate percentage of their time to either self-study, projects or work placements.
Grade 11
20% cognitive development - 80% optional allocation
Grade 12
100% optional allocation
By year 12 a student should be sufficiently educated in one area or another to either continue on to university or start work. Any skills required further down the line can be quickly acquired through self-study, using cognitive ability and learning strategies acquired through education.
When I'm finished with my current projects I'm interested in starting an experimental school using this method.
>>143810612
So what does a kid do during cognitive development you goddamn autist
>>143810583
I went to a Catholic school and had no problems, no stupid strikes or flaws with my education. 10/10 would recommend.
And no, they didn't shove stuff down your throat like you hear on reddit. Hell, religion was always the most open class.
>>143810529
>Einstein is smart
>basic application of EM to inertial reference frames to derive special relativity is difficult
>making your mathematician friend (Grossmann) do 80% of the heavy lifting for your paper to develop general relativity is difficult
>discards cosmological constant in his work due to his philosophical inclination
>being a stubborn idiot who doesn't accept QM as the (more) correct description of reality than classical mechanics
>tries to find a theory of everything without deep knowledge of gauge theory
>becomes a crazy geezer that no one cares about after his relativity two-hit-wonder
Oh wow so fucking smart right? Because the media says so right?
>can't give any more examples of scientists that show IQ correlates with intelligence
Pathetic.
>>143810509
I thought that anon was saying he would just show him Cantor's diagonal afterwards.
>>143810529
are you retarded or just baiting?, I really can't tell at this point. The other dude is supporting everything he says, you just throw a lot of "ifs", "buts" and condescending remarks trying to support your illogical and flawed personal opinions and try to pass them as facts.
Why are you guys talking about education?
I thought we were all autistic NEETs here
>>143810703
And Brownian motion and the photoelectric effect are just nonexistent?
>>143810586
>Everything else was subpar, bringing him down to 125. The fucker couldn't even spell.
>making shit up
Reminder that he also gets more pussy than you can even imagine. This shows his abilities as a social butterfly, which takes more IQ to maintain than anything besides mathematics.
>>143810493
>>143810612
That's kind of what we do already if you substitute cognitive development for what we do in class already, self guided projects for extracurriculars, and self-study for homework. Only useful thing there is work allocation to get your foot in the workplace, but it's difficult to get kids into those without them fucking with the actual work being done so that usually turns out to be some guided tour bullshit only a few companies can actually afford to do. You really aren't bringing anything new to the table.
>>143810774
>Brownian motion
No measure theory. It's a mess of stat mech circlejerk.
>photoelectric effect
Is that really so difficult to grasp?
They were mediocre works mate. Works that someone else would've done if Einstein didn't do it.
>>143810751
You can't live in California and afford buyfag shit on a minimum wage job, man.
>>143810744
>He's supporting his statement
He dropped the rocket science discussion because he knew he was wrong and then ignored the fact that his country would collapse if 90% of students dropped out of middleschool like would be the case if /sci/ decided curriculum.
Then he moved onto IQ when I never said anything about IQ, refuses to source his claims that intelligence is not genetic at all despite being the one to mention this first, and then started shitposting about how Feynman and Einstein are retards because muh IQ despite IQ being a flawed system and literally no one but him is mentioning it.
Not going to feed a retard (You)s for such low effort trolling.
>>143810509
>>143810719
I'm not about to show a sixth grader who doesn't even know how to construct the reals the diagonal argument.
>>143810493
>>143810612
As someone who was homeschooled (from age 4 to 13) this sounds a little too freestyle but that isn't necessarily a bad thing as I think most kids (or at least I certainly was) are interested in a variety of topics themselves (particularly I was big on physics, basic chem, and ancient history when I was age 8-12). However I'd stress the importance of guided mathematics studies, I believe a person in grade 10+ or even 9+ is capable of tackling statistics and trigonometry even though (at least at my charter high school and top tier public high school) they wouldn't encounter those subjects until Grade 11 (or 10 for statistics).
>>143810886
>As someone who was homeschooled (from age 4 to 13)
I'm so sorry.
>>143810665
Don't expect an "educator" to give you a precise definition. This is one of the reasons why western education is so much down the shitter. You have "educators" who don't know what the fuck they're talking about and don't know the first things about the stuff they're teaching.
>>143810827
The ability to conceptualize those explanations is worth something. And although you say that somebody else would have discovered it, the fact that Einstein was able to do two of them show that it wasn't just a coincidence that he found them.
>>143810881
Why not? It doesn't seem more complicated than that grid of rational numbers to me.
>>143810798
No, we don't.
Currently, in our system, Teachers teach, students study.
In my system teachers are just facilitators. Students do all the teaching, either themselves or their peers.
My system shifts the onus to the student.
And our current system is highly inefficient when it comes to cognitive development. In my system students are at near 100% focus when studying, boosting their learning capabilities beyond anything imaginable.
Imagine if you had kids that could memorise a book in one reading! Kids that could solve mathematical problems without being shown how, just by their own problem solving skills! Kids that could sit for hours at 100% concentration with no distractions! Kids that take the initiative to study themselves and complete their own projects without prompts!
That is what my system can accomplish.
The difference is night and day.
>>143810859
Sometimes I wonder if people like you are ever going to be happy. Always being right, always looking at other people's small mistakes against the huge one you do and what is even worst, using the smallest thing that you can find in a very valid and sound argument to justify your actions, opinions and decisions.
Go on, nobody will change yours or the other guy's mind, but if you leave the discussion without even accepting that stuff that you believe might actually be wrong, then I just hope I never meet you in real life and have the most boring and pretentious conversation in existence.
>>143811034
I think you might want to stick to posting on 4chan, instead of trying to manage actual children.
>>143810927
Don't be, the state tested me at a 12th grade or higher reading comprehension level, 10th grade for writing, 8th grade for science and mathematics when I was in the 6th grade I had a comparably easy time in middle school and graduated high school with somewhere about 60 college credits from AP courses passed and taking classes at the local college.
It probably wouldn't have worked if my parents had been fucking stupid or workaholics.
>>143810353
Math education is truly trash and Common Core is no improvement.
>>143811034
>Imagine if you had kids that could memorise a book in one reading! Kids that could solve mathematical problems without being shown how, just by their own problem solving skills! Kids that could sit for hours at 100% concentration with no distractions! Kids that take the initiative to study themselves and complete their own projects without prompts!
Very elaborate and eloquent troll. I'm surprised at the quality.
>>143806315
Kids were taking calc 1 in junior year in my school, a lot even had done calc 3, I chose Linear Algebra instead. Plus get this, kids got an AA alongside their hs diploma, pretty neat
>>143810886
>trigonometry
>10+
I taught my brother what the trigonometric functions do when he was 13. It's much easier when you do n in terms of the unit circle instead of fuddling around with triangle and so-ka-toe-a first. You don't even need to explain Pi if you just use Tau as the circle constant (which you can just say is T for turn).
>>143811063
>without even accepting that the stuff you believe may be wrong
I do not believe that an elementary school child would ever be able to comprehend actual "rocket science." It has nothing to do with intelligence, but maturity of the mind.
I do not believe intelligence is completely independent of genetics and that anyone can be the next Feynman, Einstein, Pauli, Plank, Maxwell, etc just by trying hard enough. There are natural limits (intelligence) to what a given person can ever hope to accomplish in life. It doesnt matter how hard you try if you're trying to accomplish something far beyond your limits. This is why we have things like placement testing in literally every fucking country on Earth.
And I don't believe in feeding shitposters who are walking /sci/ memes.
So why should I give a shit about his shitposts?
>>143811213
>You don't even need to explain Pi if you just use Tau as the circle constant
What would even be the difference?
Aside from making it so that your brother does it differently from literally everyone else.
>>143811103
Common Core is a standard you fucktard. How many fucking times do I have to say it: CC does not influence how mathematics is taught, just how mathematical abilities are evaluated.
And desu CC is a godsend in this fucking godforsaken piece of shit country which has voted to get rid of Euclid as a standard text in elementary and high schools.
>>143811034
>Imagine if you had kids that could memorise a book in one reading! Kids that could solve mathematical problems without being shown how, just by their own problem solving skills! Kids that could sit for hours at 100% concentration with no distractions! Kids that take the initiative to study themselves and complete their own projects without prompts!
You sounded very convincing, and had me very interested until this.
>>143810964
That and the fact that they don't teach the basics of business, personal finance, and advice like pic related so that you don't end up with a shit job when you walk out of HS or pile up hundreds of thousands in debt via college.
>>143811034
>Students do all the teaching
>Students are at 100% focus
Students are human beings, they really aren't giving a shit about anyone but themselves regardless of what magical system you put them in.
>>143806142
Where in the fuck do you go to school? If I'd stayed in high school I would've been doing calc in senior year.
>>143811262
>CC does not influence how mathematics are taught
How can a person be so stupid and wrong?
>>143811226
>There are natural limits (intelligence) to what a given person can ever hope to accomplish in life.
I agree, but I believe that those limits can be surpassed and that a mind can develop new ways of imagining things that were impossible before.
>>143811001
The existence of real numbers does need to be properly explained before introducing Cantor's diagonal though.
For example, you need to show that there are numbers that aren't in the rationals by showing the irrationality of sqrt(2) and develop the intuition that rational numbers aren't truly complete and real numbers can fill in the "gaps" of the rational numbers.
Otherwise you'll lose the student in your proof and call Cantor's diagonal "some weird math trick"
>>143811092
>>143811182
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpajoF4Uyew
>>143806869
anon, is this OC? if so, we should be friends.
https://defuse.ca/b/tsZoso7t
^ password is the most fundamental result of CT, all lowercase, followed by ramanujan's number
>>143811303
>>143811282
>he's a retard who listens to the media who blames all retarded curricula made by dumbass teachers on CC
>>143811253
Because its so piss easy that way and you can then just multiply by 2 to get Pi in place of it if you need to, but otherwise you just think in fractions of a circle.
>>143811226
You shouldn't. We humans take ourselves too seriously anyway, just believe what you want, as long as you feel it is something that is supported with real facts and die of old age surrounded by the people you love. That's the best we can do.
>>143806142
When I went to university in the US and some people my age were taking a class called "pre calculus" I was seriously choked.
What math do you even do in high school? Do you just stop at multiplication?
>>143807581
It was the same for my school. If you were retarded your freshman math class would be pre-alg, if you were not as retarded but still not that smart then it would be algebra 1, and if you were normal or above average then you were put in geometry. My studies would have gone geometry -> algebra 2 -> trigonometry -> calculus.
This was in Hawaii. It's one of the lower ranked states in education as far as I'm aware, so I'm baffled by OP.
>>143811515
Most people take Pre-Cal in highschool.
Only retards take Pre-Cal in university
>>143811544
For me it was geometry --> algebra --> trig --> statistics (or calculus, I took statistics)
>>143811316
>the most fundamental result of CT
That's a bit subjective isn't it?
>not Yoneda
>not Baire
>not Freyd
>not Beck
Hint pls
>>143811515
Well, if I saw pajeet laughing at me for taking pre calc before going to the gym, I would have choked you too.
>>143811582
I think statistics was a college prep class for my high school, but I didn't stick around long enough for it to be an option for me.
>tfw you'd be getting a 0 on every test.
>>143811515
This was how I felt when I started high school and there were people my age taking pre-algebra. What the fuck were they doing in middle school? No seriously, what the fuck? Were they literally learning multiplication and division at age 13-14?
Pre-algebra for 8th grade would fucking absurd, let alone high school. Pre-alg should be a 7th grader's class unless genuine cognitive impairments are involved, and I say this as someone who can't do math to save my life.
>>143811749
You could always take the free online autism test
>>143811588
note that you have to actually click decrypt; pressing enter doesn't work for some retarded reason. if you still can't manage it, here's another one: https://defuse.ca/b/5wZ4cnxl
the password is the name of the website you probably got that image from, all lowercase
>cancerous tripfag being retarded as usual
sure sucks going to a shit school.
>>143811817
Autistic people are good at math though since it's cold and logical and doesn't require any social graces. I think I've actually heard of companies seeking out autistic employees for such purposes.
>>143811817
I'm not autistic, I just can't do math.
>>143811814
They weren't learning shit other than how to cheat, they're the ones who wouldn't shut up in class and didn't do homework.
>>143806142
>he can't take the integral of a fucking trinomial
o I am laffin
>>143811958
Anon, I was one of those people who never did homework and usually fucked off in class (albeit quietly) and I'm still confounded by the idea of doing fucking pre-algebra in high school. It's fucking pre-alg.
>>143807739
I took AP Calc my senior year in HS. Only got a 3 on the AP test for it, but still was able to jump into 3rd semester Calculus at Uni the next year, so it had to have been close to the pacing of the college course.
>>143812080
I came into high school not giving a fuck about algebra, and then it got so bad I flunked it.
and then I proceeded to understand it. it wasn't that hard, I just literally didn't care about it at all.
>>143812106
I had to take business calc for my Economics degree and I was shocked to hear so many student saying it was their second or third time passing it while I got an A in it.
>stopped halfway through 1st year of highschool
>exploited a government program meant for adults that didnt finish hs
>Enrolled into the best uni at the age of 15
>everything was very easy at first
>then everything turned into hell
>i have to self study 8 hours after 12 hours of school
>very little to no sleep
>only get barely passing grades
Only advice i can give to my underaged friends is don't skip highschool. Evryone around me thought i was the second coming of Christ just because i can easily solve the slightly harder problems. Do not skip on the basics
>>143811949
>cold and logical
Not true. It's warm and intuitive.
>>143811588
(same anon as before)
holy fuck, I just noticed that that diagram is from a paper by coecke, he wrote literally my favorite paper to date (quantum picturalism).
>>143812297
>stopped halfway into 2nd year of high school
>got a GED
>didn't enroll in uni
>not in debt from student loans
>not studying myself to death
>not rich either but I still get by thanks to having a great dad who doesn't mind me living with him since he's almost never home anyways
Feels good
>>143811865
Not that anon, but the diagram was taken from Abramsky & Coecke's categorical QM paper.arxiv doesn't seem to work as your password
>>143806142
Were you in the special ed class or something OP?
If you don't know at least the basics of calculus by the start of senior year you might be legit retarded
>American Education System
>even in bachelor program they have multiple choice and grade curves
>paying literally for their grades and diploma
>no University in 'Murrica would make it harder than it is now since they would weed out their cash cows
Yeah. Get your degree in some good country like Germany, Austria or Swiss. Some country where education is valued and not the money you obligatory money you have to invest.
>muh Harvard and Ivy League
And no - research is not education for mankind.
>>143812513
>I'm too lazy to get a scholarship and get a decent degree without being in debt so I will instead hit 35 living with my parents.
You must be so proud of yourself man
>>143811588
>>143812574
(same anon again)
yeah, it's the *other* website a diagram like that would be likely to be found. the website that tends to contain diagrams of that nature.
