What's the consensus on diebuster?
Great sequel or fancy flcl bullshit that's so far up it's own wacky aesthetic that it completely misses the mark of what made gunbuster interesting in the first place?
Product of it's time oder missunderstood masterpiece?
Good sequel, product of the time, misunderstood.
>>143516940
What rubbed me the wrongest way was that it was so obvious it was by the flcl director.
So gainax went through three generations Anno, FLCL dude and imaishi with flcl dude being the weakest link.
>>143517011
>It's everything a sequel should be. And it's better than Diebuster.
I agree, gunbuster is really better than diebuster.
GROOOOOOOOVIN' MAGIC
>>143517042
Tsurumaki isn't bad. I think the best thing he's done was FLCL. His episodes of other Gainax shows also tend to be among my favorites.
Of course, then there are the Rebuilds.
It's not a sequel, more of a reference series if anything. Diebuster is a completely new story that happens to exist in the same universe as Gunbuster.
It's a fantastic animation that was ahead of it's time
Gurren Lagann is conceptually a better shot at a gunbuster 2 than the real gunbuster 2.
It's basically the same theme
>mankind sealed itself off from higher access to technology because big threat from outside
>lost technology aquired
>lost technology saves the day but only because of HARD WORK AND GUTS
Gurren Lagann was basically imaishi's fuck you to Tsurumaki.
>>143517298
Tsurumaki worked on Gurren Lagann, though.
I know I sound weird for saying this, but I remember there were these jelly beanbag chairs the crew of some ship were sitting in that could also act as protective shields and I think that's one of the coolest sci-fi inventions ever
>>143517251
>It's a fantastic animation that was ahead of it's time
FLCL was arguably better animated and I don't see what's supposed to be ahead of it's time in diebuster, but feel free to elaborate, maybe I'm missing something.
>>143516825
It's great. God tier OP too.
Most of the time I see people love one but have no strong opinion of the other.
While I somewhat enjoyed Gunbuster, I loved Diebuster way more. I liked the more wacky, outspoken personalities and I found Noriko, Onee-sama, and Coach kind of annoying.
>>143517431
There are a lot of little things like that in Gun/Die to appreciate.
>>143517470
I don't, but I also like the 70s.
>>143517389
No shit, he's gainax. He did storyboards and key animation in a few episodes. He didnt direct it or write it though. Diebuster and FLCL are the things where he directed and created the original concept.
![[EG]Gunbuster_OVA_06_BD(10bit_1080p)[0192B027].mkv_snapshot_26.47_[2016.06.28_17.35.74].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qNklxle.jpg "[EG]Gunbuster_OVA_06_BD(10bit_1080p)[0192B027].mkv_snapshot_26.47_[2016.06.28_17.35.74].jpg")
>>143516825
>Great sequel or fancy flcl bullshit that's so far up it's own wacky aesthetic that it completely misses the mark of what made gunbuster interesting in the first place?
I just finished Gunbuster, and loved it.But I absolutely hated almost everything about FLCL.
Should I even bother with it?
>>143517520
And I really doubt, based on that, that Imaishi was harboring any ill intentions against him.
>>143517549
Do you like Gurren Lagann?
>>143517549
Diebuster is basically a different series. But its also not nearly as LOLSORANDUM as FLCL
>>143517563
Well no. But it's quite obvious that it's his own version of a gunbuster sequel, only with swapped genders.
Imaishi also did key animation on diebuster.
So their roles were reversed for diebuster and gl
>>143517621
I guess you could say that; other would argue about Getter Robo fervently.
>>143517042
FLCL guy is good. Anno is his weakest link, go figure.
>>143516825
>What's the consensus on diebuster?
That you should watch it and form your opinion. You should also lurk 2 years before posting.
Nice rec thread
>>143517726
Nothing about this thread is a request.
Better than gunbuster, 7/10
>>143517613
I had mixed feelings about it. The world-building is shit compared to Gunbuster and NGE, and nearly every single fight gets resolved with some kind of asspull. That said, I enjoyed the animation and soundtrack. The characters weren't nearly as irritating as FLCL's.
>>143517549
>But I absolutely hated almost everything about FLCL.
Main reason I couldn't get into diebuster.
Having Lal'c drive around on a motorscooter in episode 1 was such a self-masturbatory "HEY REMEMBER FLCL? MY ZANY THING IS GIRLS ON SCOOTERS! moment.
Basically if you hate FLCL diebuster will be fucking painful to watch for you, it's still a good anime though, but you will loathe the fucking thing 90 percent of the time while having to admit it's a pretty good anime, if you just were more into that fucking style it's done in.
>>143517726
Sure it's not buddy. "Muh consensus" threads always are in one way or another and are always fucking cancer.
I recommend killing yourself, and you should respect my consensus.
>>143517798
Diebuster loosely shares worldbuilding with Gunbuster, just on a stylistic tangent. Give it a try, I guess.
>>143517042
Anno > Imaishi > Tsurumaki
Eva > FLCL > Tengen Toppa
The FLCL style is one of my favorite styles of all time, so of course I loved anything like that. The story of Diebuster was also an improvement from Gunbuster, I felt.
>>143517694
Dunno. I feel like FLCL guy lacks substance and tries to make up for it with being wishy washy.
Anno tries to be deep and shocking, Imaishi tries to be over the top and hyper and flcl dude is just "meh whatever" and tries to make things interesting by making them vague or having characters talk over shots of power lines, trees or upside down houses. Basically a gen x anime director.
>>143517859
Pretty much.
>>143517859
Anno > Tsurumaki > Imaishi
>>143517859
>Eva > FLCL > Tengen Toppa
Gunbuster/Eva > Gurren Lagann > Panty Stocking > Diebuster > FLCL.
Flcl is just horseshit. Its animated super well, but that's about it.
>>143517726
>spoonfeeding
>lurk 2 more years before posting
>nice rec thread
The tryhard trinity, this is a rare sight.
>>143517899
Well, the style is the substance. I mean, the overall direction, animation techniques, voice direction, that sort of thing.
People talking over power lines is much more of an Anno hallmark than anything.
>>143517932
What has Tusurmaki done, other than FLCL and fucking up the rebuilds?
>>143517951
I completely disagree.
>>143517951
Eva > FLCL > TTGL > Diebuster > Gunbuster > PSG
Shoulda called it flclbuster!
>>143517990
Diebuster, episode direction on other shows.
>>143517951
Diebuster > Panty > Eva > Gun > FLCL > TTGL
TTGL was complete garbage desu. At least Kill la Kill and Ryuuko and Satsuki foil. The rest is just personal taste.
Hono no Tenkosei > Appleseed
That's what really matters.
What I like about gunbuster was the pop hard scifi elements and the sense of dread from the space fights that later got turned into a complete 26 episode series with several movies starring charlie brown.
What I liked about diebuster was nono and her story and I would have preferred if some of the stylistic choices were a bit more subtle.
Like the character designs and the whole topless shit.
>>143517951
FLCL > Eva > Gurren Lagann > Diebuster > Gunbuster > Panty and Stocking
>>143516825
It's shit.
Gunbuster was the only good thing Anno created.
Does no one in this thread like Gunbuster more than Diebuster?
>>143517298
>Guren shit
>in a same sentence with Gunbuster
Kill yourself.
>>143518192
>>143518132
Gunbuster > Gurren Lagann > Evangelion > Panty and stocking > Nadia > Royal Space Force > Oruchuban Ebichu > Diebuster > FLCL
You all have awful taste.
>>143516825
I liked it a lot.
>>143518303
>hurr im so contrarian
You are so dense that you missed all the beats because you like being grumpy and disliking stuff that's popular.
I guess in the 80s you would have shat your pants how you dont like gunbuster and everyone has to watch ideon.
>>143518375
calm down autist
>>143518485
You were triggered by someone using two words you didn't like in the same sentence.
>>143518252
I hated every second of Diebuster. It was a complete insult to Gunbuster. I watched it only to able to say I watched it and hated every second of it.
I hope mods will drive this thread down.
>>143518602
You obviously feel very strongly about this.
>>143518252
I liked gunbuster far more.
But I also dislike FLCL, it's just not my thing other than being well animated.
Basically FLCL is like kevin smith directed an anime.
It's something you think is deep when you are a teenager and when you rewatch it as a grown up you find out that it's just metaphors for sex, dicks and pussies and a bunch of rambling inbetween.
But at least FLCL has nice visuals
>>143518375
And there is nothing wrong with that.
Fuck off.
>>143518375
Sperg.
>>143518656
Well neither is with prefering gurren lagann to diebuster.
Sometimes something is really more popular because it's more entertaining to a larger group of people and well made.
>>143518616
If you don't feel strongly about Chinese cartoons you should stop coming here.
This is just my honest opinion.
>>143518673
>>143518656
>>143518485
ITT truth hurts.
>>143518709
>and well made
I hope you aren't implicating that Gurenn was well made.
I wouldn't call it a good sequel but I do call it a good show.
I much prefer it over gun buster.
Better plot, weaker but larger cast of characters. More consistent in that all of it is pretty good while gb was definitely end heavy.
I understand why someone would dislike diebuster because of its over the top attitude but I don't know what people like about the first one.
It feels like it is your typical hipster taste to liking original, older anime. Either that or just because people seen gunbuster first when they were young and view it with nostalgia.
>>143517932
How would you describe Tsurumaki's style? What characterizes his visual direction?
>>143518802
Yes, that's what I'm implying.
Not everyone here needs to be a contrarian shitheel who is so insecure in liking popular things that he has to make all kinds of stupid claims.
Theres a reason gurren lagann is popuarl. It's because it's a enjoyable, well made anime that connected with a lot of people
I'd almost feel sorry for you
>>143518827
Girls on mopeds. And being zany, but not excel saga or puni puni poemi zany but only mildly zany in a bland and flavorless way that existential teenagers might like
>>143516825
The latter
>>143518633
I think that's a pretty terrible comparison. I see what you mean, I just disagree completely.
>>143518827
Not him, but the fact that the thing he's currently known for are the rebuilds speaks volumes.
>>143518838
Kill yourself.
>>143518819
Why is a larger but weaker cast better? How is the plot better?
It has nothing to do with the fact that it's older, and I watched both at pretty much the same time.
>>143518867
You've clearly only seen this and FLCL.
To be honest, I didn't like it that much. The ending, however, made it all worth it and it was goddamn perfect.
>>143518035
Pretty much this. Though if I had to expand it with the other Gainax works:
Eva > FLCL > TTGL > Diebuster > Kare Kano > Wings of Honneamise > Gunbuster > Abenobashi > Nadia > Panty and Stocking > Re: Cutie Honey
The rest doesn't matter.
>>143516825
>What's the consensus on diebuster?
Mixed, as I'm sure is obvious.
Personally, I loved it. I thought it did a great job continuing the "spirit" of the original while exploring its own themes. It felt like the main characters got more development than the original pair and the setting design - characters, costumes, environments, etc. - might the best I've ever seen.
>>143517468AH AHAH AH
>>143518891
I liked FLCL when I was 14. Recently rewatched it and completely disliked every second of it.
And even back then I couldn't really put into words what I liked about it other than "the atmosphere".
Eva gets that 2deep4u reputation, but I think FLCL reigns supreme as the smug anime expert favourite where nobody can properly describe what they actually like about it other than describing in great detail how it's a "coming of age masterpiece"
>>143519022
Those are pretty unsubstantiated reasons to dislike it.
>>143518966
If I had to go that far
Puchi Puri Yuushi > Diebuster > PSG and the rest I'm not really that passionate about
>>143518930
Rebuilds have a bad script, not bad direction. Plus they fail because they are obscuing a masterpiece. FLCL, Diebuster and I Can Friday by Day are all great with the first two being amazing but I can't really say much anything speficic about Tsurumaki, especially nothing that Imaishi wouldn't do better. I prefer FLCL to anything Imaishi did, but as a director I respect him more.
>>143518956
>You've clearly only seen this and FLCL.
I've seen the rebuilds too.
As far as I can tell other than end of evangelion and the aforementioned he didn't really direct anything. (And no, episode director is something different than directing a entire show)
>>143518252
I loved Gunbuster's last 3 episodes but found the first 3 kinda boring.
>>143519106
Yes it does, when it's a good portion of the show and deviates wildly from the rest.
>>143519039
Well what are reasons to like it?
Literally the clerks of anime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HusokNYOPSY
>>143519113
That's probably because both halves are going off of two different things. I just happen to like both.
>>143519152
Why are you pushing this comparison so much?
>>143519113
Episode 3 is where it gets good.
Especially when noriko first gets into real combat and sumissu is eaten.
>>143519022
>nobody can properly describe what they actually
A mix of over the top absurdity with melancholy. It's wacky but also heart touching at the same time. The plot is masterfuly crafted and it's vague and shattered exposition fits perfectly with the atmosphere but also invokes the atmosphere of confusion you had as a child. That's why we have head horns instead of boners. We know it's kind of related to sex but we still don't exactly get it. In the same way as a kid popping a boner you might have heard of sex or maturity but can't really grasp it at all. In a similar way it's something you're ashamed of but in the end you accept it and maturity can become a powerful tool. On top of all of this there's a creative setting, a colorful cast of characters, great design, coloring (despite being digital), shot composition, animation and the use of all the more zany, post-modern elements made it a perfect anime for the opening of the new century.
>>143519022
>I liked FLCL when I was 14. Recently rewatched it and completely disliked every second of it.
Weird, I thought one strength of FLCL and Diebuster is that they get better on re-watching.
Both contain tons of scenes and foreshadowing in each episode that only makes sense later (although I can see why that results in bad pacing too). Nono splitting things in half, for example.
>>143516825
I like gunbuster more because the ending parts are better and it's more weighty but diebuster has its perks
Also, I didn't expect shitposting this hard for an old show that wasn't one of the really old ones
>>143519282
Sorry this was a grammatical mess, but I think more than english being my second language this happened as an effect of me really loving the show and getting a bit overexcited when I get to talk about it.
>>143519222
Because both things are teenage moodpieces and how much you like them depends very much on your age and nostalgia for them.
Replace randal with mamimi and dante with naota and you got a scene from flcl.
>>143519399
No, I understand.
>>143519301
I agree, my feelings for a show have never changed as drastically with FLCL. Throughout the years it jumped from a 6 to a 10. With Diebuster I rewatched it very shortly after knowing that's the best course of action.
>>143519410
I could not possibly disagree with you more. They are complete opposites.
>>143519282
Exactly my point. It's basically very hard to describe whats so good about it without writing lengthy paragraphs.
>>143519492
What did you expect? You can't judge something by how well fans of it can articulate their own personal opinion.
>>143519472
That's what you are claiming.
>>143519580
As opposed to what you are claiming.
>>143519492
What's weird about that. I don't know any show that wouldn't take at least as long to describe its merits. Hell, something like Eva would take a lot longer for me.
If you really want to sum it down then I'd go with the first thing I mentioned. The mix of surreal, wacky absurdity and melancholy on the other hand.
I mean mixing touching, dramatic moments with comedy isn't exactly anything unique in anime. But I think FLCL not only stands out by making both of these its strong points but also never makes you cringe out with them contrasting each other.
It's a shitty sequel but a great show.
>>143519653
In a word, juxtaposition. I think it's perfect.
I got like 3 episodes in before I got too bored.
>>143518750
I hope you're not too hurt.
>>143519529
The point being that if you like or dislike FLCL depends on very many personal factors.
I'd say what you described can be put under "general mood" of the anime.
That's what I mean by "moodpiece".
FLCL doesnt really stand out in anything other than great art and "mood". The action is medicore and not very exciting because they're meant to be taken metaphorical. The characters are bland because they are to be taken as stereotypes that serve as metaphers.
There is no narrative tension, because the entire narrative is a metaphor for teenage sexuality developing.
Nothing about it is really exciting or gripping if you grew out of it. Then it's just a bunch of wank.
>>143519624
Well I gave an example but I'm sitll waiting for how you think it's a polar opposite.
>>143516825
I don't think it was a good sequel, I honestly feel the sequel stuff was just added for marketing reasons.
I can't say I liked the show much, I found all the characters annoying and the standard "Adults suck! Kids rule" bullshit got on my nervers really fast.
>>143519653
I like about eva that it's a twist on the hot blooded teenage robot pilot genre by turning him into socially awkward charlie brown with a harmen of mentally defective waifus and pitting him against a bunch of creepy otherworldish foes that cant be argued or reasoned with.
Because I like robots, monsters and slice of life that turns really dark.
>>143519770
Whether something is symbolic or a metaphor or not has no bearing on the quality of said thing. The action and characters can be taken at face value.
>>143519790
In terms of pacing, style, characterization, themes, the age of the characters, genre, even use of color, they are complete opposites.
>>143520001
>In terms of pacing, style, characterization, themes, the age of the characters, genre, even use of color, they are complete opposites.
Give an example.
I think the rambling over mundane things while loafing about is a very flcl thing.
>>143520001
>Whether something is symbolic or a metaphor or not has no bearing on the quality of said thing. The action and characters can be taken at face value.
Well but they are lacking in that department.
Because if taken at face value none of the fights are exciting because they lack motivation and just "happen" and if you look at the meta it's "oh, he's in puberty".
What are the stakes in flcl?
>>143519770
>FLCL doesnt really stand out in anything other than great art and "mood". The action is medicore and not very exciting because they're meant to be taken metaphorical.
To be fair, it is only 6 episodes long.
>The characters are bland because they are to be taken as stereotypes that serve as metaphers.
Maybe they weren't wholly original, but Haruko and Mamimi (and maybe even Ninamori) were well-developed and not the typical archetypes that appear in most stories. They deserve some credit for representing.
>the entire narrative is a metaphor for teenage sexuality developing
And sometimes a show is just entertainment and you shouldn't expect much "meaning" or depth from it. Haruko herself said something like "It takes an idiot to do cool things. That's why it's cool!"
On a similar note, I think Diebuster did a slightly better job in exploring deeper philosophical questions. There was some reminiscing on technological progression and the contrast between the nature of humanity and the pursuit of godhood, which is something I enjoyed.
>>143519770
>There is no narrative tension, because the entire narrative is a metaphor for teenage sexuality developing.
This is my biggest gripe with the series. All of the episodes have some over the top action that gets dramatically concluded, and immediately forgotten about. Just so Naota can continue being a mopey adolescent protagonist.
>>143520001
>The action and characters can be taken at face value.
The problem is that the narrative is a goddamn mess if you were to take it at face value. FLCL basically forces you to look at everything from an allegorical perspective.
>>143520173
>This is my biggest gripe with the series. All of the episodes have some over the top action that gets dramatically concluded, and immediately forgotten about. Just so Naota can continue being a mopey adolescent protagonist.
This.
Everything is consequence free and shrugged off because it's so detached and "whatever".
>>143520173
The plot isn't that complicated, it's how it's approached and alluded. It's far reaching and hinted at.
Nothing is forcing you to do anything.
>>143520227
So?
>>143520123
The entire thing.
There are no scenes in FLCL that go on as long as any from that movie.
>>143520158
They would be exiting even if you took them completely out of context.
>>143520266
>and hinted at.
There's a certain point where omitting information and leaving it up to speculation because everything is vague since the plot also happens to be a huge metaphor for a boy wanting to fuck his dad's young adult housekeeper who is being flirty to him.
You can still do metaphors for something and have a coherent and exciting plot.
But flcl is basically as consequence free as a beefed up garfield strip.
>>143520158
All of the battles are triggered by the actions of the characters or their interactions. They represent overcoming their mental and personal troubles.
>>143520294
It's just not very exciting.
>>143520344
>They would be exiting even if you took them completely out of context.
No, because for that they are too wishy-washy.
Then it's basically a demo reel.
>>143520359
What's not coherent about it? I'm talking about the plot, the space patrol and space pirate stuff.
>>143520409
An exciting demo reel with good animation and music.
You're saying "because the tension and consequences operate on a different level than the real world it is ineffectual." That's silly.
>>143520400
So you are agreeing?
>>143520467
No, because the motivation for the fights is character drama.
>>143520467
What makes you think that?
>>143520359
That's not the point of FLCL
FLCL is all about taking the generic, over done coming of age story and subverting it hard.
It starts out with our protagonist trying to be a cool and mature adult. Complaining that all the adults in his life don't act like it at all.
By the end, instead of adults helping to guide him and him becoming mature, he reverts, and accepts the fact that he's a kid who likes sweet drinks.
Although I agree with you that if you don't know its a subversion of the coming of age plot than a lot of the plot just doesn't work. If I could redo flcl I would make it much more obvious what its about. Everyone I recommend it too I tell them that so they don't just think the plot elements are all nonsense and they get a lot more out of it with a slight spoiler.
Why the fuck did Nono get her tits out more than a few times plus pantsu shots of her puffy vulva, yet Lal'c only got an ass shot?
>>143520461
Well some people like eating testers at the supermarket, some people would rather prefer a full meal.
>>143520415
So are we pretending flcl has a coherent narrative now?
Because it's burried under layers of convoluted bullshit.
Yes, I realized naota is in puberty and he really wants to fuck that housekeeper thats twice his age and keeps being firty towards him.
Yes I also realize that the layer plot is that the housekeeper wants to catch the space pirate king by pulling stuff out of people's heads that are connected to their sexual insecurities.
It's a case of "I get it, but it's not half as smart as it thinks it is and not very interesting either".
So what are the stakes here? What happens when naota just wanks into the bathtub? What happens when the space pirate king doesnt appear? Does it even matter?
The actions carry no consequences, so what would happen in case of a failure state? We dont know and we dont care. Stuff just happens.
No narrative tension.
>>143520603
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it worked fine when I first watched it.
>>143520603
How is that a subversion?
Oh yeah and that day he learned a life lesson "I guess I should enjoy youth and stop trying to be grown up so hard"
How is that not a typical comming of age conclusion?
Hey and I guess all adults are phonies too man
>>143520691
Opposite for me. Didn't care much for it at first. Read about online and rewatched it later and came to appreciate it.
>>143520679
The narrative tension comes from wondering what will happen to the characters. Will Naota actually die if he never learns to swing the bat? No, but if he doesn't he might as well be because he'll never do anything important. Each episode is about a character's personal problem and how it gets resolved.
>>143520679
Watch a 200+ episode battle Shonen if you want a full meal.
What you just described is coherent, so I don't see the problem.
A show does not need narrative tension to be good. A show can be surreal and still have narrative tension. A show can not operate at all similarly to how things work in the real world and still have narrative tension.
It sounds like your only complaint is "I don't think people who do like it like it for the right reasons, or reasons I agree with."
I really dident like it past the first Epsoide
It came out before TTGL iirc and kinda had the same issue that KLK would have
Gunbuster>TTGL<diebister=KLK
>>143520902
Fuck
Gunbuster > TTGL > diebuster=KLK
>>143520741
Its not original but it is subverting the coming of age story.
The coming of age story is all about a young boy who goes on an adventure and all of the adults teach him and give him wisdom that helps him mature and develop. Just like another anime we've been talking about, Gurren Lagann.
In FLCL, all the adults are actually detrimental towards his learning experience. They all make fun of him and try to prevent him from growing up.
Haruko is actually the metaphor for puberty. Not Naoto.
>>143520806
>What you just described is coherent, so I don't see the problem.
No, it's not. Because the different meta layers are interesecting too much, making for a convoluted narrative.
People like flcl because its colorful and they like shitty engrish garage rock.
>>143520805
And will bob the builder really fix it?
Well I guess so. But he might as well get drunk.
You always wonder about characters. Thats not a very good argument. You even wonder if shrek will leave his swamp or if charlie brown will kick the football.
That's not a thing unique to flcl.
>>143520994
Oh, fuck you.
>>143520994
Wow, other stories have character drama? What a massive surprise! Of course other shit has character drama you moron, it's the characters and their arcs that are unique, not the fact that it has character drama.
>>143520992
>The coming of age story is all about a young boy who goes on an adventure and all of the adults teach him and give him wisdom that helps him mature and develop. Just like another anime we've been talking about, Gurren Lagann.
No, that's the hero's journey
>>143517042
And what's wrong with it being obviously made by Imaishi? It's fine the way it is, it's his style. If they went after Anno's style just for nostalgia they'd fail horribly.
There's no neeed to be insecure about watching colorful over the top action shit, you're watching cartoon.
>>143521116
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Dimension_Cavalry_Southern_Cross
>>143520994
I don't get why people post like this. Are you trying to actually convince people or trying to bait them? By trying to dodge their points you actually fit their criticism of you to a T
>>143521113
Well so flcl's only redeeming feature in the writing department is that it bareley manages to make you care about shit that even garfield manages to do?
Will he get that lasagna? Well I guess he will.
And here's my main issue with flcl. It's a bunch of wishy-washy pretentious bullshit that basically is too much up it's own ass to realize that there's no narrative tension at all.
>>143516825
I think it was fantastic. It didn't stick too hard to just being "Gunbuster 2" and had it's own style and flavour. Many sequels need to do this more, and Diebuster pays it's respects to it's predecessor with many links to the first series without just being a continuation of that ended story.
It makes sense it would look and feel different. It was made many years after Gunbuster and in the anime, an even greater amount of time had passed.
It was faithful without being uninspired or a cash-in.
I'm very satisfied with it.
>>143521142
That doesn't change his point, it actually enhances it.
>>143521205
I'm retarded, thanks anon.
>>143521202
>And what's wrong with it being obviously made by Imaishi?
Imaishi isn't the director of flcl. Imaishi is the director of gurren lagann.
>>143521234
What? No one ever said that.
Are you drunk? You keep talking about newspaper comics.
Every complaint you gave is just a series of copy and pasted phrases.
>>143519691
Wouldn't juxtoposition be if they contrasted each other? I mean that can be cool too, but I feel in FLCL it blends like a smothie made of some sad, surreal and funny.
>>143521234
No dumbass, the best part of the writing is how engaging the characters are and how unique their development is. Not the fact that it has character drama. Don't put words in my mouth.
>>143521350
Yeah, that's a good point.
>>143521255
>That doesn't change his point, it actually enhances it.
Gurren Lagann is the classic hero's journey.
FLCL is the classic coming of age story, like catcher in the rye.
Coming of age is about growing up and the struggles connected to it.
Hero's journey is something ENTIRELY different.
How am I even supposed to discuss this shit with you if you keep on confusing your terminology?
I guess flcl is a anime for people lost in a haze of teenage confusion
Arigato, Gunbuster
Sayonara
My thoughts on this thread: FLCL is a goddamn perfect masterpiece and I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who doesn't like it.
>>143519912
It's not a twist since not every mecha is about hot blooded teenagers. In fact there way by far more of those after Eva than before. All of Gundam is awkward teenagers with fucked in the head waifus.
flcl isn't really random because there's always logic as to why things are included, and there's always connections between the things that show up to some theme, aesthetic, plot point, or character.
it's just hyper vignetting, which is really chaotic if you're not used to it. and the main reason for this is it simulates the familiar uncertainty of pubescence in the viewer. complex, obscured narratives like this also only really work when there's a simple, pure, and understandable theme to it as an anchor.
this is really nothing new, its just a more modern usage of filmmaking techniques that have existed for over 50 years (see: pierrot le fou, annie hall)
i mean it's fine if you think it's pretentious or just bad, but it's absolutely not shallow or dumb
>>143521386
That was the first post of mine regarding this topic you have responded to.
The two are not mutually incompatible. In fact, they're the same thing, and often found together.
>>143521350
I think it's both. Part of the beauty is that those emotions we think are opposites are actually deeply connected.
>>143521480
If it were pretentious then it would be both shallow and stupid by definition.
>>143521226
>By trying to dodge their points you actually fit their criticism of you to a T
What points?
If you claim that flcl is good you should be able to explain yourself. You are the people claiming that flcl is good.
So far the only arguments are
>it has character drama, well sort of, nothing is at stake but it's metaphors anyways, but its a demo reel
You guys are as wishy-washy as flcl.
You cant even decide on what you like about it.
Well is it the character drama that devaluates that "not meant to be taken literal" action scenes or is it the action scenes that lose their impact because they are metaphors?
It's just a formless, shapeless goo of conflicting directions.
>>143521556
We're not objectively determining if the show is good or not here. People can only say their opinions. So far, you've done an awful job at that yourself.
>>143520679
>So are we pretending flcl has a coherent narrative now?
What's not coherent about it? Evil alien corporation wants to flatten out earth, there's an organization that wants to defeat them. An alien girl wants to free an alien that the corporation took over and take his power. She uses the boy to teleport robots from the corporation's facility.
That's FLCL's non-metaphoric plot layer in a nutshell. It's not incoherent, it's just that the exposition is intentially vague.
>>143521350
That's why I love FLCL so much. It really knew how to manipulate it's atmosphere and change the feelings of it's viewer exactly when it wanted to.
Most shows can't do that, even when it shifts from Happy->Sad->Funny moments, it all feels samey and you just have some stock music playing and characters reacting, but there's not much in the way of camera angles, stylistic changes in drawings and animation, or item placement to draw the eye. It's really... mass produced with minimal effort.
Can't blame japan with the amount of anime they pump out every single day, but it's good to always look for the show that the animators and directors go out on a whim and decide to take it seriously.
>>143521481
>The two are not mutually incompatible. In fact, they're the same thing, and often found together.
Only if you move the goalposts.
If you're seriously claiming that catcher in the rye, THE BOOK people think about when saying "coming of age" is about adults teaching a boy and giving him wisdom to mature, you are so full of shit.
You are literally bending definitions to fit your criteria now.
I don't have a problem with the actual content of FLCL, but it did give me a goddamn headache.
>>143521486
>I think it's both. Part of the beauty is that those emotions we think are opposites are actually deeply connected.
Someone is high off his own farts.
>>143521556
I'm not any of those people, I thought it was simple and fun and had a lot of visual flair, while you run around telling people they can't like it because you thought it was confusing and metaphorical
Something being a metaphor or being exciting doesn't make it less good
>>143521629
What the fuck? I'm saying that the heroes journey and a story about growing up aren't different things.
>>143521556
You're assuming multiple people are the same one.
>>143521614
>What's not coherent about it?
The fact that it
>is intentially vague.
As claimed by yourself.
Because it only serves as a backdrop for heavy handed sex and puberty metaphors.
The fanfiction in your head does not replace a coherent narrative.
Thats the entire point here. It's incoherent and vague. Because it has no exposition. But because it is so vague the action that serves as backdrop for the metaphors loses it's non-metaphoric impact, thus making you care less about the implied metaphors.
>>143521142
You are talking about overlapping aspects of a coming of age story none the less. The hero's journey could be a coming of age story if thats what happens. A coming of age story also can have a hero's journey and often does.
I feel like you are just side stepping the whole point. The point is that the story isn't about sex (entirely) and is moreso about accepting your a kid. Not puberty, but even before that, just a kid.
>>143521386
Are you stupid? Catcher in the rye is actually known for subverting the classic coming of age story.
You just proved you based all your bullshit on the entirely wrong definition.
Subverting does not mean you are not apart of the genre but catcher in the rye is well known for being different from the ones before it. Someone please get the /lit/ police in here.
>>143521782
Is it bad because it's heavy handed, or because it's intentionally vague? In your opinion.
>>143521697
coming-of-age story is a genre of literature and not simply a story about someone growing up.
Star Wars is a example of the hero's journey, but not a coming of age story and you will be hard pressed to find someone calling it that way.
The Sandlot is a coming of age story, but not a hero's journey.
>>143521782
Vague and heavy handed are opposites, now you're the wishy washy one
>>143521858
I did not say that all heroes journeys are also coming of age stories or vice versa.
>>143521782
So what, it not being in focus makes it incoherent by default?
>>143521824
In order to subvert a genre, a work almost always needs to also be a part of that genre.
>>143521830
It's bad because it fails to engage the viewer on a craft basis, other if he deludes himself to read stuff into it like some of you lunatics in here.
>>143517951
Kare kano> eva > flcl> psg> ttgl
>>143521782
>Because it has no exposition
Sorry for butting into your conversation, but some people like that in a show.
Also I've learned not to expect "non-metaphoric impact" from any anime, if I'm understanding that correctly. All problems can be solved with the power of friendship/guts/hard work/rider kicks if you believe in yourself, and that's good enough for me.
>>143521916
You mean you. It failed to engage you.
All the plot points people have been talking about are addressed specifically in the show.
>>143521957
Exactly.
Not every show has to spoonfeed the viewer.
>>143521824
Yeah, go over to /lit/ and claim the hero's journey and a coming of age story are the same thing.
Let's see them point and laugh at you.
>>143521898
But that's the only context in which your argument would make sense to begin with.
>>143521916
>It's bad because it fails to engage the viewer on a craft basis
But FLCL and DB are both very well crafted, senpai. They may emphasize mood and cinematography over narrative, but that doesn't make them bad. I found the scene-to-scene direction very engaging.
>>143517859
sasuga anno the master
>>143522084
How can't it be?
Why are we all ignoring the fact that FLCL is a work of animation first and foremost and in that note, it is clearly Gainax's greatest creation.
>>143521916
You not understanding or not liking something isn't the same as it being bad, this is now even worse than I previously suspected
Everything was able to be explained in the thread and yet you somehow were too myopic to notice the explanations, but given that you couldn't even understand FLCL that explains everything.
You can't cover up your own faults by wrapping your misunderstanding in authority and claims of objectivity you don't have.
>>143522084
For example in here you claim he says they're the same thing when in reality he's saying that you could have both in one story
The problem isn't FLCL, it's your lack of reading comprehension
>>143522120
I am not that person.
>>143522063
>Not every show has to spoonfeed the viewer.
While on the other side shoving down constanty paper-thin sex metaphors down the viewer's throat?
>>143521957
I did not claim that it needs more exposition.
I claim that the exposition given is not enough to make you care about what's happening considering how fucking obnoxious the meta aspects are.
Oh yeah, he grows a horn because errections.
Figured that one right out sherlock.
>>143522121
Agreed, narrative is overrated imo.
>>143521782
I said the exposition is intentionally vague, the story itself is coherent. I'm starting to think you're just butthurt you didn't get it the first time and feel like a cartoon insulted your intelligence. Boo-hoo. Welcome to fuckin anime.
>>143522172
Then the argument you're arguing in favor of, not that it would make a difference.
>>143522158
>You not understanding or not liking something isn't the same as it being bad
Oh I understand it very well.
My comment that sparked this entire head-up-your-ass discussion was:
>But I also dislike FLCL, it's just not my thing other than being well animated.
I said, "it's not my thing" and every single of you flcl-autists kept shitting your pants how I claim "it's bad".
Yes I don't like it and I gave you reasons why I didn't like it after you cried and bitched about it.
>>143522158
>For example in here you claim he says they're the same thing when in reality he's saying that you could have both in one story
Again you're being really fucking dense.
This entire thing started with him claiming.
>FLCL is all about taking the generic, over done coming of age story and subverting it hard.
Which is basically bullshit since the definition of "coming of age story" is
>a genre of literature and film that focuses on the growth of a protagonist from youth to adulthood
which flcl completely fits. And "subverting" the coming of age story is not really a thing anymore, because the only subversion possible was benjamin button about a guy aging in reverse.
>>143522384
And my theory is that you are such a fucking moron that you felt smart for having figured out that flcl is about sex.
Yeah, I got that the first time.
I'm wondering how you can be so smug and pretentious when you clearly are so fucking dense.
The non-metaphoric story of flcl is JUST NOT VERY EXCITING or well told. Since it serves as a backdrop for a bunch of puberty metaphors they fall flat on their phase, because the non-metaphoric plot is just simply too vague and uninteresting to be really engaging.
In my opinion watching flcl is like drinking a good glas of red wine, it's a perfect blend of many diferent tastes and intellectually heightens your mood.
>>143522533
Do you mean the space pirate story? Because that one is intentionally generic. Or do you also dislike the character stories?
>>143522638
>Because that one is intentionally generic.
Is it? To be honest I have never bothered to read up interviews.
Can I get a source for that?
I figure it's intentionally barebones because the clever idea was to tell about the puberty and sex problems of a teenager through metaphors.
The problem is just that again, it falls flat on it's nose, since everything is "intentionally" vague and generic.
But in order for the metaphors to work as intended the DEVICE which they are transported with needs to be engaging in the first place.
Of course you can have a epic robot fight symbolize an internal struggle.
But if the reasons for the robot fight are so wishy washy and vague because there are no consequences it loses it's impact.
The consequences for the non-metaphorical actions are purely metaphorical.
It's just broken.
>>143522533
I'm not exactly smug because I figured out FLCL, though yes, deciphering narratives does give me some satisfaction because I'm not an autist. But right now I feel smug because I've met someone as dense and insecure as you, it does kind of boost up your consequence when you know there are other people that can get this butthurt over an anime.
And wow you're just back pedalling. First you said it's incoherent and now you're saying it's either uninteresting or vage. You can have a complex, consistent and dense story with very vague exposition and you can have a conistent story that's uninteresting (for you). You don't even have the confidense to stand by your original claim or the guts to admit you were just plain wrong.
>>143522825
Yes, it is not engaging at all, in your opinion.
>>143522825
No, it was boring so the story could focus on the character drama, which was the actual story. Whether it was intentional or not doesn't even matter that much, it's not the focus.
>>143522825
>But if the reasons for the robot fight are so wishy washy and vague because there are no consequences it loses it's impact.
That's just dumb, I cared more about Naota hitting the bat than about unnamed millions dying with each lazy still in Legend of the Galactic Heroes. It's the context that matters here. Everyone had a childhood, and most had moments when they were insecure or had doubts in their confidence. FLCL strikes the right cords with that. You meet this character, you either feel sorry for him, he grows on you or you associate with him and you don't even thinking in the context of death/life you care about how these things will effect him emotionally.
>>143522968
I actually think the background plot was great in execution, not to disagree with the gift of what you're saying.
>>143523038
Gist*
>>143522825
>>143522968
What's exactly generic and boring about a boy who teleports robots through his heads via an alien girl hitting him in the head in the guitar? Is this somehow a common thing in anime, because if so I want you to give me similar titles. And not one, since that would still make it fairly unique. But ten would suffice for now.
>>143522841
Wow you are the definition of the "enlightened by my own intelligence" pasta.
>And wow you're just back pedalling. First you said it's incoherent and now you're saying it's either uninteresting or vage.
I honestly can't keep track of your arguments for you unless you put trips up.
Point me to where I contradicted myself.
I'm not backpedalling.
>you can have a complex, consistent and dense story with very vague exposition
Yes, certainly.
>You don't even have the confidense to stand by your original claim or the guts to admit you were just plain wrong.
I stand by my original claim. I certainly have to confidence for that.
Now if you please would point out what you think my original argument was in the first place?
I just lost completely track of what your point is here, because you keep sidetracking.
I just wonder if you know what half of the words you use mean, because I feel like you're completely lost in translation here.
You make weird claims and statements that can only stem from you not even speaking good enough english to understand what I'm trying to say here.
Should I put it in simple english for you?
What exactly about my point won't you understand?
Do you know what a meta level is?
>>143523119
We're talking about the space pirate plot, which is a pretty typical "beat the evil corporation" thing. That's not the real story, of course.
>>143523038
What was executed well about it?
>>143523179
You've been talking with multiple people, and making your own share of typos. Quite a lot of them, actually.
>>143523119
>What's exactly generic
Where did I say it was generic?
Where did you pull that from again?
Half of the time I'm arguing here against claims you guys are making yourselves.
Are you people really not able to differentiate between the literal and the metaphorical level?
>>143523296
It was left vague enough to be mysterious and interesting, in my opinion, and hinting at the fact that the world is much larger than we are seeing without negatively impacting the core story.
>>143516825
How convenient, i watched it this wee. I really enjoyed gunbuster, but diebuster felt kinda meh in comparison, mainly because i didn't feel as invested in the characters.
>mfw i forgot nonoriri was gunbusters MC name
>throughout i was trying to figure out whether diebuster was set in the same world as gunbuster (jupiter kinda tipped me off tthough)
>right at the very end i remembered and wa completely overwhelmed (mfw)
Worth it for that moment honestly
>>143523381
You didn't, some other guy did.
>>143523414
That sums it up well.
>>143523340
>You've been talking with multiple people
And unless you put trips on I will have to assume all of you are the same person, because all your points blend into another.
>>143523340
>and making your own share of typos
Who has been talking about typos?
Strg + F typos gives me exactly ONE post and that is yours.
>>143523179
>Wow you are the definition of the "enlightened by my own intelligence" pasta.
>Do you know what a meta level is?
lol
>>143523492
>not even speaking good enough English
Your words.
>>143523204
The parts I mentioned are still part of the main non-metaphoric plot. You don't just pick whichever parts you find more generic and make a case out of them. You have to look at the whole thing, even without the metaphors it's still a pretty crazy and uniqu story.
>>143523403
But that's speculation on your part anon.
To me it looks like the plot was sort of an afterthought for the setting.
What would you say flcl's plot is and what would you say it's story is and what is the setting?
>>143523492
>If people don't trip I'll assume they're all the same despite clearly conflicting opinions and vastly different writing styles
Wow, you're dumber than I thought you were.
>>143523622
But the space pirate story is almost completely disconnected from the actual story. Of course I can pick that out if I want.
>>143523569
>>143523544
I asked this because I had the impression half of his arguments were stemming from him not properly understanding what I was meaning when I was talking about things in flcl being "metaphorical".
I'm still not sure how I was backpedalling by calling the literal plot of flcl vague.
>>143523635
It's not necessarily speculation, it's my opinion, and what I took away from the show.
>Plot
Naoto dealing with things
>Story
His growth process
>Setting
The Earth, with the added elements of the Mechanica, space patrol, and so on
>>143523179
Most of your post is worthless so I'll just focus on this one:
>Now if you please would point out what you think my original argument was in the first place?
You argued here that the plot of FLCL is not coherent and "consequence free":
>>143520359
I responded to you summarizing the non-metaphotic plot here:
>>143521614
Later on I explain it's not that it's incoherent but that the exposition is sparce. You then try to say that's somehow the reason it's incoherent even though those two have nothing to do with each other. Then you stopped mentioning the plot being icoherent even that was the point you started out with.
>>143523692
And yet you can't even stop getting btfo by someone really dumb so far as that your entire argument (if there was one to be had) has boiled down to a "no, you're the dumb one" shit flinging.
Bravo.
And yes, you type exactly like every other asshole on the internet.
If you think your point deserves special recognition put on a trip so people can identify you in a discussion.
I guess your point was that flcl is really deep and that you need to be really smart to get how it's about sex and stuff, huh?
>>143523876
No, my point was that FLCL has engaging character drama and therefore has narrative stakes. You stopped arguing about that a while ago though.
But no, intelligent people can actually determine different writing styles. It's not even that hard.
>>143523792
All of these are connected.
Haruko is an alien but also represents what Naota percieves as maturity
Medical Mechanica is an evil corporation that wants flattens human brains which is a metaphor for the adult world that's boring and bland.
Naota summons robots through his horn which is a metaphor for his sexual development.
Agent guy is someone who wants to capture Haruko but also represents an adult who never really grew up.
The plot is convoluted to for the sheer zaniness but it also reflects the feeling of confusion someone has while growing up.
>>143524038
I know.
>>143523969
Not him, but I didn't really find the character drama that engaging. I guess it just boils down to personal taste.
>>143524256
That's a cop out. Why didn't you like it?
>>143523860
>Later on I explain it's not that it's incoherent but that the exposition is sparce. You then try to say that's somehow the reason it's incoherent even though those two have nothing to do with each other. Then you stopped mentioning the plot being icoherent even that was the point you started out with.
Well should I have repeated the same argument in every post for your private autism?
Yes, the NARRATIVE of flcl is incoherent because the exposition is sparse.
Still the same point.
You somehow turned me saying narrative into you saying plot in the argument I was having with you.
So now for you, because you seem to be too confused to comprehend the point being made.
FLCL has a incoherent narrative.
FLCL has a barebones literal plot (or rather two of them)
FLCL has a hamfisted metaphorical plot.
One literal plot is teenagers having puberty problems, this one is rather barebones and blunt.
The other literal plot is the housekeeper being a secret alien and this one is really vague and carries almost all the hamfisted in-your-face metaphorical elements in it, but still expects to be taken literal in order for the story to work.
Now the way the literal plots cross in order for the hamfisted sex metaphors to appear creates a narrative that is pretty incoherent.
>>143523969
>But no, intelligent people can actually determine different writing styles. It's not even that hard.
>tips fedora
Sorry, to disappoint. You don't have a distinct style. It's just smug messageboard chatter.
>>143524256
That's completely fine.
>>143524347
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it does not have to be substantiated
>>143521957
literal conflict is uninteresting in all media. Genre fiction is just boring.
>>143524458
>t. I only watch smart anime for smart people like myself
>Diebuster thread turns into autistic shitflinging over FLCL
Just another day on /a/
>>143524454
Yes, you're entitled to your opinion, but why are you sharing it if you have no reasoning to support your opinion?
>>143524538
You don't need to. No one does, it's not a criteria.
>>143524365
>The NARRATIVE of flcl is incoherent because the exposition is sparse.
No, there are many other ways to relay narrative than exposition. In fact, almost all of them are far, far better than exposition.
>>143524591
What? Yes, you're entitled to HAVE an opinion but why would you share that opinion if you couldn't defend it? Do you think anyone cares thay you have an opinion?
>>143524597
Oh well, can we just agree to disagree then? I see no point in continuing this.
No hard feelings. I guess you are es entitled to your opinion as I am. (And this goes to the several people who defended flcl here)
Let's just all agree that the flcl sequel better not be utter shit, because even I have to admit that flcl is a classic. (Even though I dont like it for entirely subjective reasons I guess).
I think the discussion got a bit out of hand and really led nowhere in the end and most of you are probably alright anons.
>>143524651
No one has to care, and you don't have to explain an opinion to have it.
>>143524819
Well, that's like your opinion man.
>>143524768
It's going to be interesting seeing what happens, that's for sure.
>>143524819
If no one has to care, why are you subjecting me to your opinions? Clearly you must expect me to care if you're bothering to tell me.
>>143524768
Fuck off you coward. You're points never made any sense and giving up does not make me think more kindly of you.
>>143524836
Say what you want, at least it's an ethos.
>>143524876
Prepare for NTR is my prediction.
Also prepare for a new wave of haruko themed lewds.
>>143524909
You're being an ass, now.
>>143524933
There's a silver lining there, I suppose.
Yuri too.
>>143524958
Yes, I will be an ass to unreasonable idiots, especially if they waste my time by pulling a "let's just agree to disagree LOL."
>>143524347
I previously made posts about how all of the dramatic action scenes never change the protagonist, the tone, or plot. I personally felt like the way FLCL explored its themes of growing up and puberty were done in less esoteric and roundabout ways in other series. NGE in particular managed to incorporate these aspects into the story in a significantly better way. Shinji's relationships with other characters grow and change over the course of the series, and the rest of the cast is affected by this in a way that's much more concrete than FLCL's "Nothing exciting ever happens here." However, NGE and FLCL differ greatly in their runtime, tone, plot, and much more. This is why I feel like it boils down to your own preference. FLCL may have been a over-complicated mess with no tangible payoff for me. But for you, it was a unique and entertaining coming-of-age story with interesting characters.
At the end of the day, there's plenty of series that'll end up producing contrasting opinions for a myriad number of reasons. There's no point getting worked up over it.
>>143525045
But the protagonist and almost all the other characters clearly do change by the end.
>>143524518
I for one can't wait to see all the shit flinging during the next two(!) seasons.
>>143524365
>FLCL has a incoherent narrative.
It's not. I explained the plot here:
>>143521614
How the hell is this incoherent?
