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Did Joe actually make a pun in the original dialogue or are the CR subbers fucking with everyone

He said "buta" but that's the only moon word I can understand
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Actaully fuck it, make it "old anime AND ALSO MANGA" thread
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>>143335256
>He said "buta" but that's the only moon word I can understand

That's probably just a little bit of adapation, Satsuki Kiryuin.
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>>143335687
What do you want with me you fucking spic.
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>>143335256
I have both Ace wo Nerae and Oniisama e I have no idea what to watch first. Also in my backlog is Lupin III. I know everyone loves the first season, but is it worth to go further if your not a hardcore fan? I'll watch Cagliostro though.
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It was a pun on tonzura (escape) and "ton" being the on reading of buta (the same ton as tonkatsu).
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>>143335874
I love Lupin but even I couldn't possibly watch EVERY SINGLE EPISODE of season 2. I mainly stuck to episodes recommended by people, mainly the animation stand-out ones listed on Anipages but also some brought up by anons on /a/. I honestly don't know what to say because S2 has some FANTASTIC episodes but I could easily see it being an extremely draining experience to watch everything. I say look up online which episodes people consider good and watch those.

S3 is extremely underrated; people's main reasoning for shitting on it is the art style, but it's by far the closest TV Lupin ever got to looking like the manga. Much like S2 it's very hit and miss with some episodes being generic and others being super fun, but it's much, much shorter and easier to watch in its entirety.

I say check out the manga too, as it's my absolute favorite version of Lupin; sadly though I can't link the Mediafire for the scans an anon uploaded because Desustorage is down.

I've not seen any of Dezaki's shoujos outside of an obnoxious video by faggot Let's Play goons Chip and Ironicus riffed on Aim for the Ace as if it were the worst anime of all time because the tasteless morons at ADTRW told them to and made me top watching dumb goon videos. Particularly sad since Chip is apparently an illustrator by trade.
>>143335912
Thanks for the info brah.
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>>143336284
Actually you know what? I'm just gonna post a chapter of the Lupin manga I scanned badly from my first volume of the 70s series.
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>>143336284
Lupin S2 is fun all throughout.
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>>143336328
Also, if people told you the Miyazaki episodes of Lupin are shit: don't listen to them. They're admittedly more family-friendly but they're not nearly as sedated as Cagliostro and very, VERY well animated for their time. Miyazaki himself did animation for them and it's a loose type of animation he will never, ever do again. And Takahata co-directed, so it doesn't feel held back by "Miyazakiness".

Meanwhile, while some of Osumi's episodes are fantastic (the Goemon introduction ones are brilliant) he also directed one or two utterly bland, humorless, not even particularly badass, talking-heads episodes.
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>>143336407
>>143336348
I guess you could try to marathon it; I'm not saying my opinion is gospel. I just personally honestly couldn't because it's so long and it's easy to get a little tired of the Lupin formula if you watch it for so long.
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>>143336433
Thanks for the scans dude.
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>>143336433
>>143336407
Oh and: to be honest, the red jacket episodes of Miyazaki don't have Takahata reining him in so they do feel a little too "Miyazaki" for their own good in a way. But they're still fun the same way Cagliostro was fun.

Out of the movies, the best one I've seen that's also tonally fitting to be a Lupin movie is Mystery of Mamo.
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>>143336465
>>143336479
Also: I've only seen the first Dezaki TV special but it was very well done. Feels pretty goofy in a "80s anime staff trying and failing to understand how computers work" kind of way but Lupin in itself is goofy so it was fine, and the idea of stealing the Statue of Liberty is amazing.
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>>143336501
Already seen Ashita no Joe, Rose of Versailles, and Takarajima. All fucking great anime.
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>>143336526
>>143336501
I watched the early, non-Dezaki episodes and while the visuals were great, the writing was often enjoyable purely in an ironic way. People say Joe is melodramatic but god damn RoV was something else.

I've heard it gets genuinely good once Dezaki takes over ththough.
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>>143336534
>>143336569
Have you seen both seasons of Joe or did you only watch S2 or skip to S2 once Rikishi died?

Because I watched S1 in its entirety and I'm now watching S2 and I think S1 is really special and should not be missed. It's clearly Dezaki's first anime before he decided "ok, this is my style" so as a result it's really, really experimental.
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>>143336569
When did Dezaki take over it? I remember distinctly it changes into his style, because later on I started seeing his iconic painterly transitions throughout the whole show.
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>>143336625
It uses all sorts of weird-ass effects; for example, the punch that Rikishi uses to take out Joe in their final match is animated using watercolors. NOTHING else in the series, from what I remember, is drawn that way. And it's not like it was a "postcard memory" thing either, they just colored every frame using water colors.
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>>143336674
>>143336648
I don't remember but I think around episode... 15, or something?
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>>143336704
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>>143336625
Watched all of it. Got to S2 skipped to Carlos Rivera and his enjoyed his comfy Christmas episode and his match with Joe. I don't know what I prefer. Either ANJ 1's Carlos fight or ANJ 2's. It's a really close one on both. ANJ 1's ends as a better ending of the series, but the other goes to bring one of my personal favorite moments in anime. Although ANJ2 has the best ending to an anime ever made. FIGHT ME!
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>>143336721
cow_and_chicken_END.mp3
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>>143336674
I specifically remembered that. It was an interesting take on a fight and I think it succeeded to bring the point across.
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>>143336768
I have absolutely no idea what is happening in the last panel.
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>want to watch/read older series
>only partially translated
>no updates in forever

Is Cyborg 009 '79 episodic enough I can still enjoy it?
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>>143336749
I'll be honest, I skipped to the very end to see how S2 does it; I actually prefer the movie version of the ending. The way Yoko dropping Joe's boxing gloves synced to the music was fantastic.

I didn't skip anything in S2 and I'm actually RIGHT at the bit where Carlos wears a santa suit right now. I don't really like that S2 dropped the whole traveling boxers arc completely, to be fair; it could've been shorter, sure, but not removed (and for the record yes, it was in the manga too). S2 is more consistently well drawn and animated (except for that one moment when they forgot to draw half of Tiger's arm, what the fuck?) but I'm kinda sad to see the weird experimentation of the first season go. Also, the animation uses less overt smears & squash & stretch than Joe S1 did in its stand-out moments: https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/23462/animated-artist_unknown-ashita_no_joe-fighting-sme

Regardless, it's still a very good show with great direction.
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>>143336948
I want to watch the whole series with a friend again. But I did not see the movie. Where does the movie pick up in ANJ2?
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>>143336814
Monkey Punch draws genitals using and symbols. Melon Cop cuffed Lupin's dick.
>>143336899
I read a bunch of the Cyborg 009 manga, at least from what was on Madokami (18 volumes), and it's really fucking good. That, Fantasy World Jun and Sabu & Ichi made me appreciate Ishinomori as a fantastic creator.
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>>143336978
I didn't watch the whole movie either, just saw the finale on Youtube. But IIRC it just summarizes all 49 episodes so I doubt it's that good overall, but god damn is the ending amazingly executed.

Also, holy fuck Ishinomori sure loves harming and killing animals.
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>>143337135
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>>143337043
>>143337169
*male and female symbols
I GUESS 4CHAN DOESN'T SUPPORT THEM
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>>143337209
Also, does anyone know where the fuck the Youtube person got the fansubs for the rest of the Cyborg 009 2000s TV series that are uploaded? Bakabt only has the officially-translated episodes.
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>>143337228
Okay that's enough animal torture for one thread.
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So the anime is any good? I read a bit of the manga and didnt like how they did the first couple episodes
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>>143335874
Oniisama e... should be first. As much as I love Ace wo Nerae I consider Oniisama a masterpiece, in certain points even better than Roses of Versailles. The ending made me angry in a bad way though.
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>>143337228
last comments on bakabt say there's a torrent of Cyborg_009_All_51_Episodes of bad quality toonami rips
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>>143337337
What bothered you about it? Since I was the other way around; I'm not a fan of Chiba's art and I don't think it gets consistently good at any point. He sometimes draws a more detailed and anatomical panel or page when shit hits the fan, but most of the art looks like a poor attempt at post-Tezuka stylized cartooniness that's not nearly as good as the art of people who knew what they were doing like Ishinomori and Tezuka.

Meanwhile I loved the anime's use of dramatic color schemes, perspective and sketchy lines.
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>>143337479
I'm not talking about bad quality Toonami rips (I don't think Toonami even dubbed the whole thing?) but pretty good-quality fansubs. There are Youtube videos of them.
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>>143337547
>>143337937
This spread is probably the best example of what bothers me about Chiba's art.
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>>143337972
The more detailed "ok this is an iconic moment" shots are good, but the anime keeps them AND adds some extra ones that were never there in the manga.

You know that dramatic perspective scene from Kill la Kill episode 1 where the boxing guy looks down on Ryuko after beating her up? That's taken straight from the 70s Dezaki anime and was never in the manga.
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>>143337345
I'll be honest, even though I constantly say "ignore the fanbase" it would be really, really hard for me to separate Oniisama from the brokebrained Tumblr-tier troons cumming over it. I'd have to train myself with Rose of Versailles and Ace first.
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>>143338010

If there's something I definitely like about KLK, is that. The implementation of old-school styled art direction and other elememts from old anime.

I also remember the lolrandom co-protagonist's family looked like they were straight out from Dokonjo Gaeru.

I wish the story went on a different direction during the second half, though.
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>>143339123
>>143339123
Yeah I was REALLY disappointed in what Nakashima did with KLK. I can't even tell if he cared too much ("I need to make this totally different from Gurren Lagann ergo I will user an experimental storytelling style") or cared too little ("I will make shit up as I go along because who cares") but it was really sad to see him fuck up so badly. KLK was an entire show about nothing, but it also lacked the visuals of RE: CH episode 1 or Dead Leaves to make up for the lack of story. I still think episode 1 is really, really good though.

Really I think GL was better as far as using 70s anime-isms goes and also was a better show overall. They even referenced the pretty unique-looking stock explosion from Zambot 3 which I've never seen anyone else bring up.

Also Panty & Stocking referenced Joe a bunch in Stocking's weight loss episode which was neat.
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Also, read Ishinomori's Sabu & Ichi. Good stuff.
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>>143337345
>The ending made me angry in a bad way though.
How so?
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I really enjoyed Ashita no Joe. Both seasons were great in their own ways, but season two handled Carlos far better. Honestly didn't feel much from the ending. Yokos confession was absolutely perfect though and most of the fight was good but I just didn't like the very last episode all that much.

Rose of Versailles on the other hand I don't think is anywhere near as good as people say. It felt like shitty melodrama for over half of the series. It was honestly like watching a soap opera.

It had some great moments sprinkled throughout like Rosalie confronting her mother and Oscar and Andre's love scene but a lot of it was just generic drama. It didn't help that the score was generic as well aside from only a couple songs.
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>>143340630
>I really enjoyed Ashita no Joe. Both seasons were great in their own ways, but season two handled Carlos far better. Honestly didn't feel much from the ending. Yokos confession was absolutely perfect though and most of the fight was good but I just didn't like the very last episode all that much.
Watch the movie version of the ending; it's the one I actually actually found myself crying at. The final moments in the TV version are pretty meh and redundantly written (the monologue was not fucking needed Dezaki, god dammit)
>Rose of Versailles on the other hand I don't think is anywhere near as good as people say. It felt like shitty melodrama for over half of the series. It was honestly like watching a soap opera.
That's how shoujo traditionally is. There's the occasional exception like the Utena anime which is done by people with the self-awareness to realize everything is ridiculous, but by and large the shoujo genre is completely devoid of any sense of "wait, maybe what I'm writing is stupid". There's this dead seriously written shoujo manga about bullying and self harm whose name I can't remember where the bully characters act like the most cliche melodramatic anime villains imaginable despite the intent being to create a serious work that will open people's eyes about real world issues that school kids face.

I've actually read that Dezaki was not a fan of any of the shoujos he adapted except for Versailles which he actually read the manga for, but it was in an article by colossal idiot Jonathan Clements full of made-up bullshit (like "the Clannad movie was Dezaki's last work" completely ignoring the TV anime he did shortly before dying) so I can't be sure. But god knows, maybe it's based on reality; even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
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>>143340938
To add to this Dezaki actually made the ending of Oniisama E less melodramatic and much happier. In the original, they announce, out of fucking nowhere, that the girl died a couple of years after marrying the titular "Oniisama". It's announced in the final few lines of monologue from the MC and is ridiculous as shit.

Shoujo manga in general outside of a few exceptions like Maruko-chan is fucking bizarre and alien to me. It's like the comic book version of telenovelas where those who grew up on them "get it" and everyone else just goes "what the fuck".

I mean sure, Joe can get pretty melodramatic but not on the level of RoV.
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>>143341077
In fact the reason I prefer the movie version of Joe's ending is because it's subtler. I guess you could call the song "cheesier" but it synced far better with the visuals and the addition of an extra post-death monologue by Joe absolutely ruins the TV version for me.

Here, watch the movie version if you haven't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExHozD7lpDA

It's weird since I actually really really love most of Dezaki's manga-to-anime changes (for example, I love the way S1 made a bigger point out of Joe throwing away his freedom for something greater instead of just going straight from "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT BOXING" to "man, I REALLY gotta learn boxing") but some of them are just mind boggling. Like when Robert gives the kids a bunch of money to buy cigarettes. What the fuck?
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How are the AsJ movies? I've read the manga already so I'm not going to bother with the anime
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>>143341468
>instead of just going straight from "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT BOXING" to "man, I REALLY gotta learn boxing"
The manga didn't do this either
Joe's transition was a massive focus across the early volumes and I dunno how you're even interpreting it like that
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I'm gagging at the mere suggestion of people skipping into S2 of Ashita no Joe. Jesus. The first show starts out rough, but it's so endearing that I loved it overall more than S2. It was the definition of comfy for me.

Anyways, favorite manga/anime of mine, beating out Captain Harlock. I got to watch Matsumoto Leiji draw 999-verse characters for two hours at an event last year, and it was beautiful, but about half a year back, I got to see an Ashita no Joe exhibit in Ginza, with the last page (pencils/inks) on display. I stood in front of it and had manly tears, it was pretty powerful. Shared the exhibit with Ace o Nerae, and two other works that really should get attention in the West - Kyojin no Hoshi in particular.

>>143337547
I think you're underestimating Chiba's skill - it's incredible, and his growth as an artist throughout the series is one of the most astounding artistic achievements I've seen in manga.

He wasn't technically masterful, but he was a beast who made manga an art, rather than an enterprise.
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I'm enjoying Zambot 3 quite a lot, my second non-Gundam Tomino and it's really impressive for it's era, you really feel for the civilians getting their houses smashed to shit.
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>>143343505
>The first show starts out rough,
What? The best-animated episodes are the first and last. If anything it starts off on a really high note and then gets rough.

But even then the roughness felt purposeful. Scenes like the one where Joe gets his ass kicked by Danpei felt like the anime staff turning the show's cheapness into an asset. The art was just as dirty and gritty as the story.

I think a lot of Chiba's drawings show skill but that, during Joe's run, he wasn't very good at drawing super-stylized, big-eyed post-Tezuka characters even though he constantly tried. I've skipped to the final volume to be 100% sure of this opinion and I still feel that way.
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>>143344386
I'll watch that one day but it'll be really hard since the average episode is extremely cheap and rushed even by normal 70s TV anime standards. Pretty much everything that's not a Kanada episode or the final episode is wonky as hell.
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>>143346202

Some of the scenes are quite well animated like the transformation sequence from episode 4 I think it was.
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>>143346461
I'll be honest, I kinda just rolled with what Ben from Anipages said. But he's been wrong in the past, I've called him out on it in a friendly way and he's admitted it. So god knows maybe there are more stand-outs than that.
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One thing I like about Tezuka and the artists his rise to fame directly or indirectly gave birth to is that they cared a lot about having creative paneling and using the medium in an interesting way.
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>>143335256
speaking of joe, what the fuck happened to the weird doctor? he got the launch treatment and was forgotten? was he some filler character that got scrapped on the new joe?
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How come the series sucks so much while the movie is a masterpiece?
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>>143353734

I enjoyed the series quite a lot but I agree it can be a bit of a drag sometimes and doesn't feel like it is going anyway.

>Dat Ideon poster
Always wanted one for my room
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>>143353734
I've not seen either but does the movie make sense if you've not seen the series?
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>>143354005

I'd suggest watching the series before the two movies, even though the first movie sums up the first 24 or so episodes just watch it anyway.
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>>143354005
The had to cut the last 3 episodes for the series so it ended in a weird way that left room for interpretation.
The first movie is recap and while I honestly haven't seen it I assume it's good. The second movie Be Invoked starts from the last episode of the series and shows the real ending.
Funny how similar it is to NGE, even in that regard.

I would recommend you just watch the movies, the series really isn't worth the time.
If you can tolerate the ugly visuals and people acting like retards for no reason for 40 episodes than go for it.
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>>143354431
I was ok with people acting like retards in Xabungle cuz it was a comedy but even then it got a little too awkward for its own good at times
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>>143354431
How do you even care when everyone's slaughtered at the end if you hated them? Holy crap.
Also tominoisms spice it up because at least it isn't boring like dialogue in most anime any era. There's also the "oh shit" progression that's better over a long span of time.
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>>143355420
Art and fights aren't usually bad either.
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>>143336328
these are some good scans anon

text looks really nice
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>>143355420
I don't hate the characters I just think that the drama isn't handled very well a lot of times. It has some great moments I won't deny that.
But it drags on for so long that everything felt the same because it happened 8 times already just on a smaller scale.
Again, there are some cool fights but most of them are pretty boring and not memorable in the slightest. There were no memorable enemies, like Char. I can't remember any of the Buff Clan military persons by name except Gije. There's no Char, no Garma, no Lalah.
While it was fun to watch out for Gundam references, the stupid tracking device got me pretty mad.
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the qpop "classic manga" art show makes me want to kill someone it's like a glorious gathering of cancer
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>>143355504

Gunbuster referencing this was quite magnificent. It wasn't until my second viewing I realized it was from Ideon.
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>>143356235
this is in a real fucking art gallery
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>>143356363
I had no idea what the clusterfuck on the bottom right was meant to be but then I realized it's Godzilla because the idiot who drew it could not think of an actual classic manga

also

>haha we totally care about the CLASSIC OSOMATSU MANGA guys, not just the anime because we want to fuck the twins or make them fuck each other
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>>143356419
This is meant to be Hyouma Aoi from Combattler V but it just looks like a horrible misunderstanding of the art style in Sym-Bionic Titan
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>>143356419
I meant bottom left here by the way

fug
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Currently watching Galaxy express 999.
It's really nice. I think I'll watch his other stuff. Too bad the manga aren't translated.
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>>143356235
for the record this is what Leiji's pin-ups looked like

(they were not garbage)
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>>143356651
I've wanted to get into Galaxy Express but the TV anime doesn't seem particularly interestingly directed and is also INSANELY fucking wrong. I'd like to watch the Rintaro movie with the cool-as-fuck Kanada animation in the climax but I assume it's not nearly as cool if you've not followed the characters for a very long time.

The manga looks nice and it feels like a bunch of stylistic stuff was lost in translation from comic to cartoon. The manga's art is a whole lot weirder in a good way.
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>>143356867
The horses have such bizarre designs.
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>>143356910
Also I know it's a meme opinion to shit on Leiji for sameface on his girls but that's kind of a meme opinion; not because it's wrong (it's not) but because so much anime is worse about sameface and no one points it out

Eva is good but so many characters have the exact same facial structure it's hilarious

LOOK AT THOSE WEIRD ASS HORSES ON THE FINAL PANEL LEIJI IS BEST HORSE MANGAKA
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>>143356867
>INSANELY fucking wrong
I mean long. Not wrong.

I'm fucking dying
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carlos rivera is secretly a robot
>>
fuckin owned
>>
>>143356651
>>143356867

Don't marathon 999, that's the advice I'm giving, I started it next month a year ago and I've been taking it nice and slow making the journey seem as long as it does in the series and I've enjoyed the pace. Just do not marathon is my best advice. I did it for the first couple episodes but becomes kind of repetitive, each episode follows pretty much a similar formula.
>>
you stupid bitch
>>
I love the facial deformation when someone gets punched really hard in Joe so much
>>143357230
Yeah it seems like an episodic sort of show where the protags travel all over the place and meet people etc and is likely as hit-and-miss as those sort of series tend to be. But I still suspect that the movie has way more of an impact if you watch it after developing an emotional connection to the characters and experiencing their journeys first-hand even if their journeys aren't always "10/10 would watch/read again" material.
>>
>>143356172
Harulu "dad wanted a son" Ajiba was a decent villain even if Buff clan generally sucks.

It's not just the unintentionally amusing writing I liked by the way but there's some good serious stuff too (at least is visible through the drama if nothing else). I don't recommend marathoning but it's still worth giving a try.
>>
>>143357373
Yeah this is the first scene I can say without any doubt was done far better in the 80s show. The others were different and it was kinda hard to pick a favorite; but no, this is fucking better. No question.
>>
>>143335687

One of the best series' out there. Fight me u niggas.
>>
>>143357511
>the way the sketchy audience slowly gets up as Tiger hits the ground
so good

bravo dezaki
r
a
v
o

d
e
z
a
k
i
>>
>watching pre-2000s anime
how can you endure it?
>>
>>143357645
By having good taste.
>>
So, what i should do? Watch or read Ashita no Joe?
>>
>>143358172
watch then read honestly, but i think most people will say the other way around. having the sound/voice to joe makes it so much more impactful
>>
>>143358338
Joe's voice happens to be a singer. It's not obvious at all to me though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCsRM-TB99Y
>>
>>143358338
Ask in a manga-focused thread and people will say "fuck the anime, read the manga". This thread naturally attracts people who like anime because I posted a cap in the anime in the OP.

I personally prefer the anime hugely but I understand those who prefer the manga; if you're not a fan of over-the-top theatric execution you won't care much for what Dezaki did with it.
>>
>>143358599
the theatrics really lead to it having really high highs
>>
>>143335874
Lupin is not meant to be watched as if it was supposed to go somewhere.

It's a weekly apponjitment, it builds up a relationship with the viewer through repetition.

best used as a break from something else, no hurry at all.
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