Is this the greatest shounen of all time?
>>143201341
Nope.
Naruto says hi.
>>143201341
yes
>>143201471
>>143201341
We all know it's dragonball and z
Naruto is better.
>>143201594
oh come on
>>143201559
>DBZ
>greatest shounen ever
Compared to One Piece, JoJo, and FMA? Get the fuck outta here. Only Dragon Ball pre-Z era can stand up to the best of them.
>>143201683
i like dbz and db too but it is inferior to one piece,jojo,and fma
>>143201341
spoilers are out
>>143201735
That's what I'm saying.
That's bot Kinnikuman
>>143201341
>Nobody dies
>Every arc is the same, lots of running and waiting for the nakamas to finish their fights while Luffy jobs to the final boss.
>When everybody finish their fights Luffy wins against the final boss with an asspull powerup.
>Rinse an repeat
The only good part was from Sabaody until Marineford
>>143201787
>>Nobody dies
you mean the strawhats don't die
>>Every arc is the same,
stoped reading right there
>>143201683
>>143201735
>One piecefags this delusional
>>143201787
Exactly! dragonball and z had a story unlike one piece
>>143201836
>this shitposting
>>143201836
>dragonball and z had a story unlike one piece
falseflagging
>>143201787
This, One Piece is overrated as fuck.
>>143201341
>all girls look like nami, robin or are unhumanly ugly
>almost all men look like luffy, zoro or are unhumanly ugly
>the once great humor is in steady deckine
>fishmen island was so boring that i lost all interest in the series at all because after 5 attempts, i can't force myself to read through it
It baffles me how this is more famous than most anime
>>143201908
''This'' he says...
all of his points are wrong you know
>>143201826
The enemies don't die either.
They're always shown inbetween chapters, like Eneru on the moon.
The only people who died were Whitebeard and Ace
>>143201341
Hell fucking no.
>>143201934
there's no need trying to talk to them one piece as the most delusional fanbase ever
>>143201826
Only Monet, Whitebeard and Ace have died, people only die on timeskips.
Oda backpedals too much on deaths, if they weren't needed plot devices Ace and Whitebeard would be alive, hell i bet Monet will come back in a bullshit way.
There is no tension in One Piece.
>>143202007
Name a better one then.
>>143202023
This. They're literally more retarded than the Nuruturds.
>>143201471
uh oh, everyone wave back and say hi to the retard to make him feel better
>>143202025
>Oda backpedals too much on deaths
name one instance besides Pell
>>143201987
>The enemies don't die either.
and thats a good thing cause you may see them again
if lucci died we could never have the potential to see him grow
killing enemies is the easy way out for writers
>>143201341
Nah son.
>>143202037
At least Naruto had a few good fights with some real effort put into them.
One Piece's fights are the anime equivalent to two manlets flapping their arms at eachother.
>>143202034
Kenshin manga just detroys your precious One Piece of shit with little to no effort. So does FMA.
One shit is better than Fairy Tail, Naruto and Bleach, I can give you that.
>>143201987
>The only people who died were Whitebeard and Ac
>what is bellmere
>what is thatch
>what is brooks crew
>what is fisher tiger and otohime
>>143202034
Its not one piece of shite that's for sure
>>143202023
>>143202037
Its good to know that there are other people as sane as I.
>>143202025
>he reads stories cause he wants characters to die instead of doing things that matter
wew
>>143202096
>Better than Naruto
Yeah, try again. I get that it's cool to hate but Naruto is actually decent-good.
>>143202094
>At least Naruto had a few good fights with some real effort put into them
underage
>>143202135
I'm pretty sure that wants "Raising tension" something you one piecefag don't understand
>>143202156
calling people don't get you your /a/-golden membership card
>>143202201
*I'm pretty sure that anon wants
>>143201341
No.
>>143201787
You forgot overusing sob stories for almost every fucking character, it's gotten to the point where it's more surprising if a character doesn't have a tragic back story attached to them.
>>143202201
>he has a golden membership card
But why?
>>143202201
>"Raising tension
marineford arc
ennies lobby
alabasta
dressrosa
pretty high tension right there
tension doesn't come from death only
>>143202156
Mad One Piece loser detected.
>>143202089
Uh-oh senpai, looks like we might have a Gohanfag here.
>>143202080
Pagaya and everybody hit by Enel's ray, Sabo, everyfuckingbody on water7/Enies lobby, i mean CP9 where suposed to be a crew of assasins and nobody died at their hands, and the buster call was shit also, it was suposed to be a masive wave of destruction but neither a single marine or a franky pirate died.
>>143202272
>Gohanfag
Wrong Bob, my favorite characters are Goku,Beerus and Jaco.
>>143202265
>>143202321
>Beerus
Even worse, a furfag.
>>143202276
so you dicard everything great about one piece cause main characters don't die
ok
>>143201787
Also every arc need to have a forced time limit, the bomb in alabasta, the arc in skypeia, Robin, the fucking ship on fishman isle, bird cage, etc.
>>143202264
>>143202104
>>143202083
No replies
>>143201787
>Every arc is the same
Oda's cheapass trick to continue the story for eternity. One Piece is a literal filler manga.
>>143202264
>marineford arc
>ennies lobby
these are only ones that are memorable the rest are i haven't read/watch them or i just don't remember them.
>Dressrosa
was so boring i didn't feel no tension in it.
The best shounen of all time is Rurouni Kenshin.
>>143202104
Now take out the deaths that happened in a flashback.
>>143202354
Wrong again Bob, he don't have fur.
>>143202264
Ennies lobby's tension died as soon as every CP9 member turned out to be a joke.
Water7 was the only good part of that saga.
>>143202435
Yes, but the manga only. The anime sucks donkey balls.
>>143201341
No, yotsubato is.
>>143202437
>deaths don't matter in a flashback for some reason
YuYuHakusho is objectively the best shounen ever made, prove me wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DehmPOkrtRc
COMFY as FUCK.
>>143202472
I don't see any problem with it i think it was very good.
>>143202264
>Raising Tension
>Dressrosa
>Enies Lobby
Is this a joke? Sure there was some tension in Marineford because this was the only arc that Luffy wasn't with his crew and it was the first time that characters actually died
Sure there was some tension in the Alabasta arc because it was Luffy's first time fighting a Shichibukai.
One Piece exemplifies everything that is wrong with shonen. It goes on for so long that it literally becomes a waste to kill off any of the main characters. Oda doesn't even have to do THAT much to add tension. He could literally just kill off random, established characters that don't do anything. Just killing someone, like perhaps, King Riku - would've added so much more to the Dressrosa arc.
Oda tries too hard to add tension by giving us flashbacks of shit that happened like twenty years ago. Would it be too much to ask to focus on the present?
>>143202602
This.
>>143202534
YYH is shitbut the OP is pretty good.
Opfags got btfo this fast
i love dragon ball gt
>>143201559
You are correct. This is the manga that inspired pretty much every shounen since it began.
>>143201341
DB, HxH, YYH, Gash, Yotsuba.
>>143206042
>DB
Is Boku no Hero Academia
One piss.
>>143201787
Other than gear 2, 3 and 4 Luffy wins his fights with just strength so it's not often he gets an asspull powerup
>>143201934
>all girls look like nami, robin or are unhumanly ugly
Here's one from the chapter just released. Already gets rid of your first point.
>>143201787
>Nobody dies
One of the Yonkou killed her son just last week on screen.
Yes
>best characters
>best world and story
>funny but sometimes gets deep
>mostly good fights
How can other shonens even compete?
>>143207633
>One of the Yonkou killed her son just last week on screen
Oooh, stop the presses. Filler the manga has some deaths. That completely invalidates all the filler content!
>>143208768
>best characters
Nope
>best world and story
Wrong
>funny but sometimes gets deep
Funny yes, deep not so much.
>mostly good fights
You mean like one?
>>143207633
dude just accept that One Piece is literally the same every arc. No one important dies anymore. Probably the only popular battle shounen that does that.
>>143209893
>Probably the only popular battle shounen that does that.
So it's not plain like the rest and has a unique route? What's the issue?
Seems to me One Piece just hops from island to island, repeating the same formula. You introduce some side characters, some of them die, they have a tragic backstory, none of the Strawhats die, and then they move on.
The whole thing feels like filler.
>>143210052
This, a good series but massively overrated.
>>143201787
If you don't think Shanks and his crew along with Mihawk aren't going to die than you're an idiot, I bet you probably thought Ace and Whitebeard weren't going to die either.
>>143202096
>better than Naruto
If we exclude part I Naruto? Sure
>>143211432
It had tons of arcs better than the best of part 1.
>>143202534
YYH is just a DBZ clone
>>143208768
Bait/10
I like toriko
>>143215528
Me too but some people here don't so stay quiet.
>>143201341
No this is, and the fact the thread has gone as long as it has without mentioning HnK really shows just how summer it is
>>143202089
>the same grey that toriyama uses for saiyan blue on goku
>>143215809
Toyable draws Super manga.
>>143201341
>>143215990
One day.
>>143215656
>HnK
>Boring invincible MC with a bland personality beyond "Muh manly tears".
>Even the strongest villains will eventually job to him because of his martial arts that can copy other techniques, making any tension in the fights evaporate the moment he gives a speech or pulls out another kung fu move
>Annoying kid characters who become forgettable side characters as they grow after the time skip.
If we're allowed to count Phoenix than that would be it. But it feels more seinen than shounen.
>>143215990
its much more boring than One Piece.
>>143216109
So you didn't watch it
>>143216313
I watched it all the way to Kaioh.
Prove me wrong.
>>143201341
One Piece is dying
>>143202219
This
>>143216429
>Boring invincible MC with a bland personality beyond "Muh manly tears".
You are going to explain how he is boring. He is far from invincible through most of the series, he is simply better than the majority of who he fought. Souther and Raoh both almost kill Ken as well as a couple martial artists that almost got the jump on him. Of course only Raoh was a true match for Ken, and the majority of the series is not a battle of their strength but the ideologies that follow them. Who is better: a natural but reluctant savior or a natural but reluctant conqueror?
>Even the strongest villains will eventually job to him because of his martial arts that can copy other techniques, making any tension in the fights evaporate the moment he gives a speech or pulls out another kung fu move
The only time Muso Tensei comes up is between Raoh and Ken and both of them mastered the technique. After Raoh's epiphany if he had not given his life to Yuria then Raoh would have likely beaten Ken, even Kenshiro admits to this. The fight between Raoh and Kenshiro was no longer about might or ability but a concession of who was more just in their actions.
>Annoying kid characters who become forgettable side characters as they grow after the time skip.
Annoyance is a matter of taste, Bat and Lin never were anything other than side characters who were first introduced to develop Ken and show his softer side. They later go off and help the orphan's in the later arcs of HnK. HnK 2 isn't the same show so I don't need to go into it.
>>143216169
>feels more
That's not how it works, nigger. It's based on publication. Phoenix is shounen and small parts are shoujo. I assume OP means battle shounen, though.
>>143216297
pity reply
>>143216899
>he is simply better than the majority of who he fought
Sounds invincible to me.
>Souther
His weakness was shit, and once Kenshiro figured it out he kicked his ass. I'll give you Raoh though.
>You are going to explain how he is boring
Silent, brooding MC who can kill people with ease are a dime a dozen and inherently boring. The only guy worse is Duke Togo and the only reason why I hold Kenshiro over him because he at least as some backstory.
>The only time Muso Tensei comes up is between Raoh and Ken and both of them mastered the technique
You are forgetting the times Kenshiro copied moves from other schools, including Nanto moves like those he leeched from Shu. What's the point of having a unique martial art if you're going to just use other styles? And he gave Jagi shit for this too.
yeah nami's tits are gigantic
that's how you measure a shounen's quality
>>143201341
No, but it ranks high on the list. I say this while having a Mugiwara flag hanging over my bed.
>>143216910
It just felt like it dealt with mature themes on a grander scale than most shounen, and even seinen now. And I guess I like to put maturity or the way a work explores themes as being seinen or shounen.
>I assume OP means battle shounen, though.
Unfortunately most people do when they say shounen.
>>143217173
>Sounds invincible to me.
Having two confirmed losses where both he almost died in and was just barely saved counts as invincible?
>His weakness was shit, and once Kenshiro figured it out he kicked his ass. I'll give you Raoh though.
Souther was a powerful martial artist and arguably may have been the strongest South Star master particularly due to similarities between his style and Hokuto Shinken. Combined with his unique anatomical difference, it allowed him to almost kill Ken due to it throwing off his entire style. Of course Ken is the superior fighter and once he realized how to adjust he won but it doesn't change the fact Souther almost killed him.
>Silent, brooding MC who can kill people with ease are a dime a dozen and inherently boring. The only guy worse is Duke Togo and the only reason why I hold Kenshiro over him because he at least as some backstory.
You realize Kenshiro created a lot of those tropes, as HnK created a lot of trends and ideas employed in every shonen that followed. Kenshiro was battle hardened and had nothing to live for other than his revenge, but even as an assassin who tried to close himself off from the world he kept proving to be a natural hero and savior despite him not wanting to be.
>You are forgetting the times Kenshiro copied moves from other schools
That is Musou Tensei. It is an unconscious implementation of all South Star schools who were his comrades that fell beside him, which Raoh did as well, because its the true mastery of martial arts in blending what works into your style. This was not a shitty attempt at using styles that they don't know like Jagi did, this was mastery and implementation caused by Hokuto Shinken being the root of all martial arts that the South Star branched off of. The reason Ken, Raoh, and Toki are all unrivaled is they literally know the greatest martial art in existence and remember in their mastery Ken was the weakest of those 3.
>>143216644
nah. it will have another happy ~5 year until oda finishes it. and then all the extra shit for years.
>>143216928
OP's world building and the personality of its characters is way better.
>>143217482
>two confirmed losses
Out of how many wins? At that point the tension is killed since you know Ken will find a way out of it somehow in the inevitable rematch. Almost guaranteed.
>You realize Kenshiro created a lot of those tropes
I see this as a con, regardless if HnK created a lot of those trends and ideas.
>greatest martial art in existence, Ken was the weakest of those 3
Yet he was the chosen successor. And the guy who ends up beating Raoh. And his stronger brother Kaioh.
I enjoyed HnK years ago but even I can see it is not the best shounen.
Nop
>>143218514
Dragonball yes.
DBZ was boring.
>>143218394
Winning does not make someone a bad character, especially since a lot of the fights Ken had were not about his own survival but if he could save someone or preserve something in the process. Not to mention several fights were unclear if Ken could win, and the entire second half of the show is about building up Ken vs Raoh and it was unclear if either would survive as the fight they had at the midpoint of HnK ended in a draw that seemed like mutual assured destruction. But even that, Raoh left with a single debilitating wound while Ken left almost dead.
>I see this as a con, regardless if HnK created a lot of those trends and ideas.
But you said your issue is its "dime a dozen" and it is so plentiful because Kenshiro and the series created these ideas and executed them the best. You are not saying objectively there are issues with Ken, you are saying subjectively you have an issue with him seeming watered down by everyone copying him.
>Yet he was the chosen successor. And the guy who ends up beating Raoh. And his stronger brother Kaioh.
Did you watch the show? Fucking Toki was the true successor and was superior in skill to both of his brother but due to his illness he contracted by saving Ken and Yuria he sacrificed his future. Raoh was much stronger than Ken, and Goken himself said Raoh is possibly the most powerful and fearsome student to ever learn Hokuto Shinken in its entire history however he did not have the mindset and failed the final successor test. He himself goes on to admit he feels like hes kind of robbing Raoh because on sheer talent, skill, power, and effort Raoh is superior to Ken but his dangerous mindset means he cannot inherit Hokuto Shinken.
Don't bring up Kaioh, HnK2 is utter schlock and is only good for pure 80s cheese and crazy fights that are more hilarious than they are tense.
>>143201683
FMA has some subtle themes that I would say take it to some seinen gray zone. If it's no seinen then yeah FMA is the best Shounen ever.
>>143201471
>>143201594
First part is cool, then powerlevels happenned.
>>143201341
>not early Bleach
>>143219641
When they left Karakura town to go to Soul Society is when Bleach went from a fun/solid series to complete crap and has since followed a downward spiral of shit.
>>143201940
t. assblasted shitpiece fag
get fucked nignog, your favorite ｃｏｍｉｃ is shit and there's nothing you can do about it
>>143217284
>And I guess I like to put maturity or the way a work explores themes as being seinen or shounen.
You're wrong, then.
>>143201341
Don't know, it's still shit, I mean, except for the pirate setting it's totally dbz.
Find me a single reason why one piece could be considered original.
>themes: usual shit about friendship and hard work
>characters: bidimensional characters with the usual shitty tragic background
>plot: is there even a plot that's not "let's go to an island, beat the baddies and save the day"?
>>143201471
how, it was so bad that even the writers new it when it came to the end.
they just gave up and started asspulling everything
>>143201341
Not even top 50
>>143220581
so are you saying the difference between seinen and shounen is assvapor other than publication? You can have mature shounen that deal with complex themes and juvenile trap that just has tits and gore than it'd be seinen?
>>143222792
Yes. It's just a fucking publishing/marketing label.
>>143201836
>>143202534
YYH is literally 90's Bleach.
>Hi I'm just an ordinary high school boy Yusuke
>nope I'm actually is also a spirit detective
>nope I'm actually also half demon, half shinigami half quincy half vizard
>>143201471
Fuck off Narutard
>>143201683
>>143201735
>One Piece
Shit
>JoJo
It's just a meme
>FMA
Emoshit
Dragon Ball is the best
Shaman King is second best
>>143225525
>Shaman King
nig it's fairy tail tier.
I think gash bell is better.
>>143209893
>Probably the only popular battle shounen that does that.
Bleach
No-one ever dies in Bleach
>>143201787
>Luffy has gotten a power up three times
>>143219767
Soul Society arc was good
Everything after that(basically after Aizen was revealed) was shitexcept for the anime filler arc "The Bounts"...that was pretty based
>>143225906
>Ichigo is a decent guy not a douchebag thug pieece of shit like Yusuke
Ichigo used to be douchebaggy in the early days
That was back when he was still a somewhat decent character with personality
>>143225554
No it's not
It's one of the best Battle Shonen Manga ever made
Go fuck yourself
>>143226235
Yeah especially when death literally no longer mattered so no fights meant anything and the main characters just constantly died over and over
>>143201341
No jokeGash Bell is pretty fucking great
>>143218657
dbz its just for the tv show, the whole manga is called db.
>>143201341
>>143215656
not sure but i think hnk its more like a seinen not a shonen
>>143201341
>>143226419
That happened in like the last 40-50 chapters of the manga only
>>143201341
I am pretty sure its Pokemon
>>143227431
>>143216169
>>143218964
Kill yourselves, you retards. Why are you even posting on /a/ if you don't know anything about manga?
>>143227431
Its a shounen through and through, it was originally published in jump. Content and good execution does not define that, just what demographic its marketed towards.
>>143227573
It was closer to the last 100 and that doesn't change how abysmal it got once they reached the final arc. Shaman King is a fun read with some great characters, but its horrible ending/last stretch and various flaws means it really shouldn't be considered "the best shounen"
>>143201683
DBZ is less complex and rougher than those three, I wouldn't say it's on their level (although Jojo is in it's own scale, and I'm not saying this because I like it but because it's super weird), but DBZ is still very good despite changing the recipe between DB and Z, I think. There are a lot of interesting ideas and nice character development that were allowed by Z and not by DB. Especially since Goku was an adult and had a family.
>>143227671
calm the fuck down old man , thats why i said not sure.
>>143227696
Bullshit
Death is a joke in DB for most of the manga yet that is considered great
And the whole "Death makes you stronger" is a belief in Shamanism so it's not just retarded bullshit
SK is more of a Plot-oriented Shonen
Like for example the death of the main characters serves as Character Development(Ren letting himself be killed to get rid of his guilt for killing Chrom for example,Lyserg getting over his desire for revenge,Yoh reaffirming his beliefs etc. etc.)
>"the best shonen"
I never said it was the best...I said it was "the second best" after Dragon Ball
>>143227702
He used to have a douchebag personality like beating 5 guys and telling them to call the ambulance before he did it
Jojo, HxH, Dragon Ball and Hokuto no Ken are all better than One Piece.
>>143228134
Well so is Yusuke
>>143228004
Death became a joke in DBZ once the Saiyan's were introduced, yes, but at least death had longer consequences than a single chapter. Fights stopped mattering in Shaman King because nothing was getting accomplished anymore and people kept dying. There are various other series that also go into character depth and motives, thats not something rare or unique thats a basic necessity to tell a not shit story. The last hundred chapters are fucking crap because theres constant needless drama and pointless fighting that ends in nothing because character death mean fucking nothing.
>I never said it was the best...I said it was "the second best" after Dragon Ball
So you're what, like 14? Watch more anime if you have this low tier of an opinion. Neither of those are in even the top 5 of shounen.
>>143228133
Not really.
>No, you dont like what i like and my opinion is better than yours wahaha
you guys are autitics lol
>>143227944
The fact that you're not sure is the problem.
>>143227671
I know Phoenix is a shounen you retard, I said it "feels" more like a seinen. In terms of themes explored and the way it explored those themes, no shounen is as mature as it. And if it was released now, it'd definitely be a seinen (same for Devilman)
>>143228292
No death was a joke in DB from like the beginning because of the Dragon Balls(and I know,I know it if you die 2 times you can't be revived back then but AT made sure that didn't happen so it's pointless)
The last 100 chapters(or I would say the last 150 chapters) were kinda weaker and lazy but not because there was a lack of character death drama(which is generic writing at best) but because the Tournament was pretty much disregarded and for long stretches of time it felt like everyone was running around the village and just getting into battles for no reason(not to mention the technical aspects such as the art getting lazier)
And when you look at it from a broader perspective Shaman King is a battle of Ideologies/Religions not a battle inbetween 2 random character to show whose dick is bigger like 99% of other battle shonen are
Takei increasingly felt less and less inclined to draw battles as time went on but the plot stayed strong from beginning to end with some minor hiccups here and there which is the most important thingand fuck you the ending was great(the kanzenban one not the original princess ending)
They're definitely in Top 5 Battle Shonen Mangas ever made
I don't give a shit what your hipster ass says
Stay mad
>>143228327
I like One Piece, but If you don't think it's extremely formulaic and that Oda spends more time in shitty characters, the strawhats running around and sob flashbacks then you are retarded. If One Piece was cut to half the chapters it would be a way better manga, too much uninteresting filler shit.
Yotsuba
Gundam: The Origin
Ashita no Joe
Nausicaa
Azumanga
Beelzebub
GTO
Phoenix
FMA
Black Jack
Cromartie High
All better desu.
>>143228942
>black jack
>nausicaa
this only. everything else - pure garbage
>>143229180
>Yotsuba, Ashita no Joe, Azumanga, GTO, Phoenix, Cromartie High
>garbage
Unless you said Hunter x Hunter, you're wrong.
>>143228617
> if it was released now, it'd definitely be a seinen (same for Devilman)
Same with a bunch of old shounen, and a bunch of old shoujo would be josei, and a bunch of current stuff could easily run in magazines for different demographics (I wouldn't bat an eye if Sengoku Youko were a seinen in Young King, for example, but it's not). It doesn't matter. If you bring "feels like" into the equation then the whole discussion becomes a mess full of nebulous personal opinions about hundreds of different manga.
>>143228617
>>143222792
>>143217284
I fucking remember you, you were in that awful "READ THE THREAD" clusterfuck a few months ago. You haven't improved your posting, have you been lurking at all?
>>143201471
Maybe the first part
>>143228899
triple dubs confirm
![[m-x]FOTNS_vol1_ch1_pg005.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UJRJQHY.jpg "[m-x]FOTNS_vol1_ch1_pg005.jpg")
HxH>Naruto>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>OP, Naruto Shippuden>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DB, FT, Bleach, other shits...
This is objectively the correct answer.
>>143201341
He'll die before it ends
>>143226064
>liking the bounto arc
>>143201341
Think you linked the wrong picture OP
>>143201559
Dragon Ball Z is lame. Everyone has the same powers and the settings are so plain and boring.
Please don't say Hunter x Hunter. This manga is beyond shounen.
