How much value do you put into visual direction?
Sometimes it's enough to keep me watching even if the show is mediocre.
A lot
More important than plot or dialog.
Boring visuals or crappy animation shut down my interest like nothing else.
>>143182262
This, makes me kind of wonder. What are you watching this season?
>>143181774
A great deal
without visuals, anime is just shoddy literature or cinema
I loved the fishing scenes in angel's egg so much, wish the rest lived up
>>143182327
Amanchu
>>143182807
>Amanchu
Oh, I meant the spring one.
To this day I wonder how did Persona get away with it.
>>143182846
I dropped everything except Kiznaiver but I don't like that very much
>>143182902
Because japs aren't anal about taking inspirations like amerifats.
>>143182999
>inspiration
I dunno, man. It's almost a direct transition. And being one of final forms doesn't help.
For being shittily animated and low budget the original berserk anime looked amazing
>>143183419
Even so, japanese don't care that much. They constantly take elements from other works and insert them into their own if they find it cool and think it fits.
>>143183607
Was there any backlash at all about digimon/summer wars? Or they didn't care either?
>>143181774
what is meant by that term
I see it used as a catch-all for "how gud it look", but I don't think that's the right usage. because "how it looks" is literally all-important for animation, so.
>>143183512
Is this the same background artist or wat
>>143183791
>>143183648
The same guy directed the digimon movie and Summer Wars.
>>143183835
Direction>>Writing>Animation
>>143183874
>>143183874
Reverse search isn't working. It seems like it's now geared for identification like the cpatcha, which is useless
>>143183836
I know. And they are almost identical.
>>143183915
>>143183892
Doesn't direction encompass all of those?
Can we interpret the "direction" of a work the same as "the direction where one should go" and that in the end what makes a good direction is homogeneity in ideas?
>>143183977
I think that's Ie Naki Ko, the background artist/art director is Shichiro Kobayashi. Didn't know he was on Berserk too but that explains a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1tiKOsCz2M
>>143184021
>>143183512
berserk anime >> manga
>>143184266
The animators of Berserk can actually draw unlike Miura who can only spam strokes.
>>143181774
In a feature film, it's the primary element. Other elements are important, but they are of secondary importance.
In a series I give it equal importance to writing, but the writing in each individual episode is secondary to the visuals of that individual episode.
>>143184021
I don't think so, at least in my opinion its more like this:
>Writing
What's going to happen in the show
>Direction
How is it going to happen
>Animation
Visual performance of those two other concepts
>>143184313
Too bad the animation is a travesty
>>143181946
source?
>>143184349
What's going to happen is just the story, you could have a good story that's badly written.
I put more value in it than I do live action media. When you literately control every element of what's happening there's no reason your scenes can't be well framed and have things like pleasing colors and and decent composition. I'm not expecting greatness but I like to see when people put forth a good faith effort towards visual direction.
>>143183892
I honestly think it's silly to try and rank elements this way. Direction and writing in particular are sort of hard to separate a lot of the time - the specific story being told is pretty closely linked to how you tell it.
>>143184510
If it's badly written then it wouldn't be so much of a good story
>>143184661
In traditional film making it's pretty easy to separate, unless, of course, the director is the screenwriter.
Due to the way anime is produced though the lines definitely become blurred.
>>143184313
Huh, I thought I was the only one who didn't care for Miura's art.
>>143181774
My opinion really hasn't changed all the times you've asked that question.
https://cuckchan.org/a/search/text/How%20much%20value%20visual%20direction/type/op/
>>143184430
Phantom World, episode 7
>>143184661
Because direction is a mean for the writing to develop itself, therefore it works around what the writing is, but even then direction can express feelings and situations that can go beyond what is actually written
I think The Soultaker could be a good example of what I'm trying to tell you, a show where Shinbo creates such an endearing and captivating atmosphere for what I can only describe as the dumbest of writings
>>143181774
Why not just call it storyboarding since that's the actual name for the job?
>>143181774
It's a highly visual medium, so a lot.
>>143186392
What's the difference between a highly visual medium and a slightly visual medium?
>>143186511
A book with some pictures is a slightly visual medium.
>>143186567
What about a medium visual medium?
>>143186567
VNs is a slightly visual medium composed of thrown together elements
>>143184661
writing: the content
direction: how said content is executed/presented
>>143181774
A lot. Cool and dynamic visuals are the main thing anime has to offer that other mediums largely don't.
>>143181774
None. I'm blind.
>>143186692
This is also true.
>>143186643
A graphic novel or manga with too many words, but still pictures on every panel.
>>143181774
so you just watched this yesterday and now are making threads with it? nice
>>143187151
Don't everyone do that? I'm repeating myself all the time here, a living propaganda.
>>143187151
I watched it yesterday for the fourth time.
>>143184266
what a garbage opinion. The only good thing about the anime was the soundtrack, which was surprisingly great. It's terrible otherwise.
>>143189622
>liking the crappy manga
opinion discarded
>>143189622
Miura's art sucks and the anime adapted everything before the story turned shit.
>>143189786
>>143189713
you have shit taste m8, and it looks a million times better than the slide show garbage. Also look at this pleb, the golden age isn't even the best part of the story.
>>143190247
There are actually people who will defend that garbage manga.
i don't mean to turn this into a recommendation thread, but i wonder what everyone's favorite visual tour de force is
the first GITS film has such an undeniably genius visual flare that I can't help but love it.
are there any really obscure efforts anyone enjoys?
>>143189622
>Only the soundtrack is great
The guy doesn't even know what he's talking about, jizzing on Miura's art like he a saint and not realizing the beauty of Shichiro's art.
Also Umakoshi's character designs are better than Miura's.
>>143190849
>Also Umakoshi's character designs are better than Miura's.
My nigga
>>143181774
I swear I have seen this same thread at least 20 times, when will you stop? are you trying to become a meme?
>>143190849
Who the hell are these nobodies, would oyu memorize Korean sweatshop animaters too who animate the terrible One Piece anime?
The anime literally does nothing better than the manga other than having a great soundtrack. The colors suck a huge dick and had odd choices like making Gennon pink, it's tied together on a shoestring budget and looks like a literal slideshow, and the eclipse came left field and feels like a cheap M Night Shymalan twist compared to the manga (which had the Black Swordsman arc to really give weight and anticpation to it). Also terrible and worst possible ending to leave off on.
The movies would be better if it didn't have the shit CGI.
>>143181774
Historically, anime has differentiated itself with better-funded Western animation through its use of striking frames and visual design.
Strip away the over-the-top antics, the magic powers, the lolis, the tsunderes, and you're left with shitty action and sci-fi storytelling at worst. Very few anime are well written. Very few directors or companies care about making unique, interesting characters; they simply want something that will sell merchandise.
Visual design is just as important as the writing and characters for me. It's hard to think of any shows that succeed despite having bad visual design, while a ton of good shows have mediocre writing.
>>143190837
The Hakkenden is crossing my mind, but there're a lot, more or less unknown.
>>143191003
>Umakoshi
>a nobody
>>143191003
>would oyu memorize Korean sweatshop animaters too who animate the terrible One Piece anime?
I'd like to know who'se responsible for the great backgrounds of One Piece early anime but there're too much background artists on it on ANN. Also One Piece composer is really good. One Piece has (or had) a lot of qualities.
>The anime literally does nothing better than the manga
I think the designs and the backgrounds are better than the manga. Plus, you can't really compare an anime and a manga like that, as you noticed a manga don't have soundtracks, nor colors, and a lot of other things.
>budget
Like it does everything.
Jap artists in anime industry are self-aware slaves that are fueled by passion. Still sad for them though.
>>143191011
>while a ton of good shows have mediocre writing.
like what?
>>143191003
It only adapts the best arc and leaves out CUTTING EDGE shit like Wyald and BLACKED, so it's already an improvement over the manga.
>>143191011
Well there are some narrative devices that I like in anime that aren't too common in western film and shows. You rarely have works with jigsaw-puzzle exposition like you do in Eva, Utena, Lain or Angel's Egg.
>>143190970
I'm not even the guy that started it. I just rewatched Angel's Egg recently and decided to use it to make this thread.
>>143191242
If you think Guts getting raped was unnecessary and cutting that out was an improvement, that your stupid 12 year old who only knows how to talk by meme speak.
And Conviction is better than Golden age, also the Eclise had nowhere near as much precedent to it as compared to the manga which was much better by having The Guardians of Desire Chapter.
>>143181774
film is a visual medium, therefore visual direction should become its main concern, audio is secondary.
/tv/ here
which anime is the most kino
>>143191662
Magnetic Rose
60%. 30% plot, 10% sound effects.
>>143191662
Musashi Gundou is definitely kino.
>>143191662
What are your top 10 films?
>>143191242
this
>>143191729
The sound effects of Arslan blew my mind.
>>143191791
Yeah, overall Arslan was bretty gud, don't know why most people here didn't like it
>>143184810
>>143190970
Reminder that this is a forced meme:
https://cuckchan.org/a/search/text/How%20much%20value%20visual%20direction/type/op/
>>143191995
It's not a meme of any kind.
![[UCCUSS] Urusei Yatsura 2 Beautiful Dreamer (BD 1264x720p AVC AACx3).mkv_snapshot_01.02.54_[2016.05.04_19.54.03].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Pmldrjq.jpg "[UCCUSS] Urusei Yatsura 2 Beautiful Dreamer (BD 1264x720p AVC AACx3).mkv_snapshot_01.02.54_[2016.05.04_19.54.03].jpg")
>>143191003
>Shichiro
>Umakoshi
>nobodies
The sweatshops that do inbetweens are the nobodies. Learning to recognize talent in production is the first step of really enjoying anime.
Anyway, you have :
Composition (generally an outline for plots, mixed with writers often)
Writing (the script, dialogue and basic action)
Direction (basically storyboards)
Designs (concept art for characters, mechs, basically anything animated)
Backgrounds
Keyframe animation
As the major components of a work. Often there's blending of roles, directors or writers will have more or less influence, but its a rough outline. It also means there's no absolute order for importance among the parts, but direction and writing are generally the most important, with designs and backgrounds being secondary, and animation being the least important, since it's usually fluff on the base visual presentation. They also really play off each other. Good direction is infinitely improved by good dialogue and art direction, etc.
Not even going to attempt to get into voice acting and soundtracks though.
>>143192421
>designs and backgrounds being secondary, and animation being the least important
That just doesn't sounds right
>>143191003
>and the eclipse came left field and feels like a cheap M Night Shymalan twist compared to the manga (which had the Black Swordsman arc to really give weight and anticpation to it)
The anime had the first ep to do that (even if at this point, it might be even wiser to skip it, to get the full twist in your face at the end of the series).
There are also some element of foreshadowing here and there (talking about the Behelit, Zodd saying that Griffith will betray Guts, etc).
Both approach are fine imo, though I prefer the anime one. Full bad end twist are interesting when done well.
Also, I don't think the end is a bad conclusion.
>>143192498
Best way to get perspective is watch old Dezaki shows like Ashita no Joe or Nobody's Boy Remi to see how unimportant fancy animation is when everything else is done well.
>>143192657
Given that we are talking about anime and not some still show I just can't agree with that because at the end of the day it's the action on screen what actually matters (And by action I don't mean action scenes but the actual visual development), pretty backgrounds are easier to make than objects moving properly on screen because you have lower standards and a bigger margin for errors
Just look at the examples given by you guys, besides the fact that they look like if they were made on a fabric canvas with oil painting they look boring, plain, generic and overall uninteresting
>>143193088
>they look boring, plain, generic and overall uninteresting
If you're honest while saying that we're clearly not on the same wavelength.
I think the backgrounds I linked are by themselves amazingly beautiful, and really inspired. There's a feel to them. The feel is amplified by the great soundtrack, possible dialogues and sound effects, and the overall direction.
I agree that what the guy said about Dezaki is a bit biased by his certain love for those shows, but he's not totally wrong either. Dezaki, Anno, and those people, they used creativity as a mean to create interesting things even with low budget, and those guys in particular are smart people that imagined means to amplify scenes by making them a painting, which, like you said, cost less to animate, take less time and effort/talent, but is more impactful in the flow of events.
>>143193088
Next time you watch a show pay close attention to how much time is used on still shots, still shots with nothing but mouth flaps, and pans over a frame or other tricks, where next to no technical animation is happening. It's a huge percentage of a typical episode, while designs and backgrounds are a factor in the visual quality of practically 100% of the frames.
>>143193344
Dezaki is just the most extreme example of slideshows with good direction and writing. There's also truly awful shows he's worked on like Sword for Truth where greatly improved animation couldn't make up for missing all the other things his classics had.
>>143192473
call me a pleb but what is this from?
>>143193815
Dragon Heaven
>>143193921
bless you good sire
>>143181774
>how much value to you put into the visual direction of a visual medium
Only actual idiots and retards will argue that the visuals are anything except the single most important facet of anime.
>>143193731
Of course it is important, that's what budgeting is all about, it doesn't mean its artistic value is increased by the amount of presence it has, besides that animation is not only key animation
>>143193344
Those drawings are so plain that they look like something than most amateurs art students could come up with, they lack detail and for some the perspective doesn't make sense, I get the "feel" you're talking about, they are surely different to what you see in most anime, but they are really not something I would call praiseworthy, or at least not as much as smooth and consistent animation, the kind you'd see on a movie from Satoshi Kon for example
But then again I guess that poorly painted backgrounds are more important than dynamic animation where character's movement blends with the visual means of storytelling
Anime is a visual media, its only natural visual direction play a big part in it. You can make a anime with ok visuals, but you gonna miss very nice way to convey a messenge
![yipmsq8h7faaxswrlxls[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/z0CtFuO.jpg "yipmsq8h7faaxswrlxls[1].jpg")
>>143192421
>Directed by Mamoru Oshii
dude is a fucking genius. he's the best. i don't think there's anybody better at directing visuals.
>>143186801
In the case of anime, film and theatre the presentation IS the content. Screenplays are specifically written to be performed. I don't watch a movie to receive dialogue or learn about a plot, I go to see a show be performed. While dialogue make up an important portion of the content I am looking for, so do blocking, acting, rhythm, sets, lighting and background shit.
People keep going back to see Shakespear again and again. Every play has been done to death and everyone knows what will happen. His writing is good but by this point the writing itself isn't the draw, it's seeing how it will be performed. The man left enough room in his work so that others can build upon it.
![VzseN12[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8tojATg.jpg "VzseN12[1].jpg")
>>143194522
woops the one I just posted is some amazing fanart. whatever.
>>143194540
Sorry but what is blocking?
>>143191662
Kino no Tabi
>>143194590
I know it's not his most popular, and likely isn't the overall best, but I think is visual direction in Gosenzou-sama is the most interesting and engaging work he ever did.
>>143191662
>>143191011
And through film-style cinematography.
>>143191662
Kaiba.
>>143194955
>55
KAIBA KISAMAAAA!
There's zero point to visual media without aesthetics. Just read a book or listen to a radio drama instead.
>>143181774
Very important. Good visuals can salvage a show thats lacking in plot or dialogueI'm looking at you shingeki no kyojinsince it makes the show inherently enjoyable to watch. Just look at, Redline, its pretty lacklustre in plot, dialogue, pacing and characters but its still a cult classic due to the nonstop explosion of sights and sounds it provides.
How do you feel about the visual direction in Steins;Gate?
>>143195083
But Shingeki isn't that beautiful
>>143194691
Gosenzosama isn't all that fancy or dexterous, it just sticks to a gimmick which is pretty cool. What makes that show tick is the animation rather than the directing.
>>143195129
I'm just saying the animation was enough to keep a lot of people watching an otherwise painfully mediocre show, not that it was as good looking as redline
>>143195074
This is a dumb attitude. A litfag could just as easily say "there's no point to literary works without prose quality, just watch a movie." Every fucking medium has formalists, there's no medium that's just pure story.
>>143195083
>>143195322
SnK looked like fucking shit, what the hell are you saying? It had awful coloring, bad CGI backgrounds for a lot of city scenes, mediocre designs (that at least beat the manga's shitty art), awful thick lines, reused footage/assets everywhere, and unfinished animation.
>>143195374
I don't purely agree with absolute media specifity but if you aren't willing to consider the formal aspects to a work as worthwhile content in their own right then you're just narrowing your own appreciation of things.
Rather than "reading a book", he should say "if you aren't interested in aesthetics then just stick to rhetoric"
>>143195441
>unfinished animation.
What do you mean?
>>143195554
purplerectangles.jpg
>>143195596
Need a better version of it
>>143195765
There was also a whole action scene that was unfinished and looked shitty
>>143195791
Not as bad as the fight with Death Spots in Grimgar.
>>143181774
I put a lot of value into that hair.
That hair.
>actually watching anime
>>143194295
What's this from? The green-haired girl reminds me of Dream Hunter Rin but nothing else really matches.
>>143196032
Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou
>>143195966
hair is very very very important
Yes I like hair a lot.
Thanks.
>>143194670
It's the way the characters are placed, positioned and the way they move. Sort of like choreography, but it's more general.
Like writing, music and voice acting, blocking can be whole show in itself (dance) but when used in a show often realise on the other elements to communicate clear meaning.
The movie in the OP >>143181774 is a good example of anime that leans primarily on blocking (as well as setting) to tell the story.
>>143181774
if you don't value visuals in a visual medium, you're a fucking idiot
>>143196584
Thanks
>>143196346
>>143196192
>>143196169
madoka is best
End of Evangelion is one of the most well directed anime films of all time
>>143199674
I don't believe you.
>>143199949
Watch it again then, i think it's too bad that people often see EoE as just "wtf did i watch" and do not pay attention to the extraordinary directing and filmmaking that went into it.
>>143200070
Show me something extraordinary from it, then.
![[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 09 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_01.52_[2016.06.11_16.23.03].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eOF6Q4Y.jpg "[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 09 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_01.52_[2016.06.11_16.23.03].jpg")
![[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_07.57_[2016.06.23_07.35.53].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BB2SBIl.jpg "[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_07.57_[2016.06.23_07.35.53].jpg")
>>143200197
>>143200138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNKCZFNAED0
My favourite scene in the film is actually when gendo shoots ritsuko and his death scene but i could not find it.
Anyway show me a better, more emotional and climactic fight in any anime or anime film, protip: you can't. Bad directing could have easily fucked this whole bit up
![[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_10.07_[2016.06.23_07.36.19].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/oZlwpfs.jpg "[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_10.07_[2016.06.23_07.36.19].jpg")
>>143200242
![[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_12.17_[2016.06.23_07.37.00].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RTsBEGm.jpg "[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_12.17_[2016.06.23_07.37.00].jpg")
>>143200274
![[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_15.38_[2016.06.23_07.39.10].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rouJbHu.jpg "[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_15.38_[2016.06.23_07.39.10].jpg")
>>143200314
![[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_20.44_[2016.06.23_07.35.18].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jykNKrS.jpg "[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_20.44_[2016.06.23_07.35.18].jpg")
>>143200365
>>143200270
I think of Anno were a good director he would have directed his character designer to make Asuka less fucking ugly.
>>143200314
Are these random screenshots supposed to be good cinematography or are you making a different point here?
![[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_20.52_[2016.06.18_01.40.49].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BvbMwFb.jpg "[Ohys-Raws] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken - 10 (TBS 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_20.52_[2016.06.18_01.40.49].jpg")
>>143200400
>>143200404
>Asuka less fucking ugly
you take that back u fuk
>>143192473
This looks really Moebius like.
>>143196661
>muh visual medium
>>143200595
Why the fuck would you watch anime if you didn't care about the visuals? It's literally the only reason you would use animation to a tell a story and not any other medium
![[Kami Translation] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken (2016) - 03 [720p][10bit][338EAF28].mkv_snapshot_01.20_[2016.06.23_08.09.11].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5oldj7a.jpg "[Kami Translation] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken (2016) - 03 [720p][10bit][338EAF28].mkv_snapshot_01.20_[2016.06.23_08.09.11].jpg")
>>143200453
![[Kami Translation] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken (2016) - 03 [720p][10bit][338EAF28].mkv_snapshot_20.41_[2016.06.23_08.18.07].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/cvVCIzY.jpg "[Kami Translation] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken (2016) - 03 [720p][10bit][338EAF28].mkv_snapshot_20.41_[2016.06.23_08.18.07].jpg")
>>143201125
![[Kami Translation] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken (2016) - 04 [720p][10bit][8D2305CE].mkv_snapshot_00.13_[2016.06.23_08.21.19].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FM8ZcYa.jpg "[Kami Translation] Magi - Sinbad no Bouken (2016) - 04 [720p][10bit][8D2305CE].mkv_snapshot_00.13_[2016.06.23_08.21.19].jpg")
>>143201215
>>143184266
This. So much this.
>>143201445
>>143201489
>>143201513
>>143201489
>>143201445
I appreciate a lot of what KyoAni does as a graphic designer semi well versed in the technical aspects that would be required to pull of their works, but I have never liked their style.
Hyouka is great though.
>>143201513
>>143200697
Why are you talking about the decision to make it an anime? I'm a viewer, I didn't fucking make that decision. I watch an anime if I think I'll enjoy it. The visuals may or may not be important for that, it varies.
Kyoto and Shaft are far and away the best at visual direction.
>>143181774
I usually don't put too much importance in it,. but it's something I definitely appreciate when done well.
>>143200197
>>143200242
>>143200274
>>143200314
>>143200365
>>143200400
>>143200453
>>143201125
>>143201215
>>143201280
Sinbad is fucking horrible, though. A few decent stills is all it has going for it.
>>143201445
Hyouka is really good.
>>143183686
Mainly shot composition, consistent overall designs for all the people and objects in the worlds style, and things like color palette choices. all very important for what make films good and are necessary when making something look competently put together.
all of it
I will forgive a fuck load if it looks great
>>143202426
In Oshii's case there's almost always a fuckload of stuff to forgive (or not).
>>143201707
What i am saying you imbecile is that the only advantage anime has over any other medium is that you have complete full control over the product and the visuals, so if the visuals are boring or badly done there is literally no reason to watch that anime or for that anime to be made in the first place
>>143202997
I agree with this regarding all animated movies
I don't think they have to be outlandish but the visuals have to come together in some meaningful way
Actually I just realised I make an exception and excuse atrocious presentation if it's delivering something really unique, like if it's obvious animation was chosen as a budget option because no sane person would fund/produce
>>143195112
Considering i'm a RF technician/Electrical Engineer that picture is making me erect.
>>143191386
It was unnecessary, completely gratuitous and stupidly evil for the sake of being evil.
