Why hasn't there been one longrunning series that didn't eventually tun to shit?
Berserk stopped being good once Femto merged the worlds, and turned to utter garbage once it became Boatserk and this loli harry potter island ripoff.
One Piece became mediocre as sin once the time skip happened.
Dragonball stopped being good after Frieza.
Naruto and Bleach stopped being good after their first arc.
Ippo turned to shit a while ago.
Vagabond is boring now with that farming crap.
The only worthwhile series that had approximately 30+ volumes is Lone Wolf And Cub and it had under that but close enough.
Who will write the great epic of our time that will have 50 or more volumes with all them being gold? Is such a thing even possible?
JoJo
![3278747-dc-detective-conan-17352255-857-933[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ShyeLil.jpg "3278747-dc-detective-conan-17352255-857-933[1].jpg")
Baki
>>143174966
>Why hasn't there been one longrunning series that didn't eventually tun to shit?
Hypothesis 1:
If you want to tell a story, then things must happen in that story.
Hypothesis 2:
If things happen, things change.
Hypothesis 3:
You choose what stories you read based on what you like.
1+2+3+4:
The longer a story you picked up continues, the more the probability approaches 1 that the things that made you pick up the story in the first place change and become unappealing to you.
Exceptions would be manga without a story but a never-changing status quo, like for example >>143175046.
The fact that you know about anything that happens in half of these manga says more about your taste than their quality.
>>143174966
>Dragonball stopped being good after Frieza.
But Cell was the best villain
>>143175095
Are you saying berserk, dragon ball, vagabond, one piece were never good?
The reason is sleep deprivation.
>>143175154
No, I like Berserk and Dragon Ball.
>>143174966
Okay while we're here. Can anyone tell me WHEN Ippo turns to shit? I want to read everything before that.
It's an inescapable law of nature, anon.
>30+ volumes
You don't like Blade of the Immortal, OP?
Because you're and EOP of the worst kind, OP.
>>143174966
I can only think of three ways to avoid a decline:
1 constant episodic nature with just a couple of hints towards the main storyline (and about it>>143175046 is perfectly right), which works since the main story has never been the reason to read the whole stuff.
The cons are pretty obvious: the main storyline gets quite predictable and most importantly the shocking moments must be as few and moderate as possible (otherwise you get another Ah!my goddess).
2 You end it before your audience grows up/the author gets tired.
Actually One Piece in that regard is still doing strongly, it's just that you've grown up and can now notice the usual formula.
3 You keep changing while mantaining some premise. Examples: Vinland Saga, Jojo.
I refuse to believe Berserk has turned out wrong until we get to see the next eclipse.
You should read HSDK. It starts out as shit and stays shit, but adds a bunch of nude Shigure.
>>143174966
Gintama is still running, you know.
>>143175418
I somehow got bored of the fanservice in this series, and I'm typically a mindless sucker for this sorta thing. The girls were all hot and everything too, I dunno what happened.
>>143174966
>Dragonball stopped being good after Frieza.
It stopped being good when Z started and then went back to being great again with Super.
Guyver
>>143175418
>It starts out as shit and stays shit
This.
If consistency and lack of decline are your thing you should really check this suggestion, OP.
Shounen series last long enough that the kids who like them when they start end up growing out of them. It's not that the series "turns to shit". Your tastes just changed.
>>143174966
>Something something all Rumiko Takahashi's long series
>>143174966
What about HxH?
>>143175473
I think it's the balloon tits; having some relation to actual female anatomy is way hotter IMHO.I still want to lick hereyebrows.
>>143175086
this looks pretty autistic, but I have to agree with you. It's why Lone Wolf and Cub was gold throughout, each volume is episodic yet somehow builds towards the overall world and mythos and subtly advancing the plot, and it only really focuses on the main "plot" the last 10 or so volumes.
It's also why Phoenix would've been great if it continued on and had a lot more volumes.
Also Berserk could've benefited from that with more episodic shit like the Lost Children, while still advancing the narrative. And yeah the longer it goes on, the longer your risk deviating from what it initially was and alienating your old audience (happened with Berserk and arguably even Dragonball).
>>143175148
Cell was okay as a villan, but the arc was just cliche as hell. I mean come on time travelling prophetic sword wielding badass from THE FUTURE just made it hard to take it seriously. This is also when the series went overboard with the shounen powerups (and it imo negatively influenced the industry) with everyone turning SSJ or USSJ or whatever. At least the buu saga tried to be creative (even if it fell flat) with the fusions.
>>143175452
Good one, I bet you think the simpsons is still good right?
But yeah I've come to the conclusion that the best manga are relatively short and only a few volumes (LW&C being the exception) because they don't beat around the bush and tell the story it needs to do and do it well (Nausicaa, Akira) or regurgitate past plot points (one piece) or end up being one long soap opera (Berserk)
>>143174966
Why has OP turned to shit ?
Stay away from manga and find something that can statisfy your 3 second attention span.
>>143175867
Consistently decent, occasionally great.
>>143176027
One Piece turned to shit because everyone and their mothers can use Haki as a get out of jail free card now, most of the crew members sans the monster trio are useless (especially best strawhat robin), and the current art is messy and cluttered and frankly ugly. Also dressrossa dragged like molasses.
Gear 4 looks retarded btw, it looks like my younger brother drew it.
>>143175985
>autistic
The Godwin used by people who can't into intellectual discourse.
>>143176110
hey m8, I agree with your points. Just saiyan.
>>143175599
no it's more like the writers run out of juice or fall off. I mean it's unreasonable to expect someone to shit out gold for over 20 years straight. Most musicians "fall off" and stop releasing good albums past their prime. This applies to these longrunning authors who start off strong but run out of juice and write themselves into a corner and constantly repeat past plot arcs.
>>143174993
Especially since jojolion is so far better than all of the other parts
>>143176250
early jojo was meh, and 5 was crap. He started off crap but ended up being good, so he's the reverse I guess?
>>143175211
As a different man from this fellow, I would also like to know this information.
>>143176273
5 is great
>>143176199
The usual problem of every artist: once the creativity instance wears off, that's nothing you can do about it except maybe do something else...but given Japan's commercial model, it's a trap you can't help but fall into it.
>>143174966
Hunter x Hunter
>>143176250
This. JoJolion is GOAT. Everyone seems to love the other JoJo parts as well but I feel like they're all varying degrees of mediocre besides Part 4 and Part 8.
Araki never left time to have the characters interact meaningfully, it was just 95% fights and 5% plot made up on the spot, which he has thankfully has remedied in JoJolion.
>>143176450
I was about to say this but HxH would be about the 700-800 chapter mark were it nor hiatuses so Togashi may have turned it to shit too, if he didn't take so many breaks.
>>143176105
I'm pretty ambivalent about Haki. Observation Haki seems sorely underused. The series would have probably been better without it, but the "finding the weakness of Logia" card was also getting old. Conundrum, writing-wise.
The crew could use a LOT of improvement, yes. They feel out of focus, which is fucking odd for this series.
The art doesn't feel as cluttered to me as in Fishman Island or Dressrosa. I think Oda remembered to let panels breathe right around Zou, while also retaining his efficiency for panel usage.
Gear 4 is really hard to defend on here but, from certain angles, I like it. Unfortunately the introduction panel for it is the worst it ever looks. It's pretty hard to make look good, gotta draw it very specifically.
>>143176273
One thing is irreversible decline, another is having high and lows.
That's the reason why One Piece is still good and Naruto was a clusterfuck. No one believed Kishimoto to be able to wrap up a decent ending since he had already broken every premise the story had.
If you ask someone what was the best/worst part of Naruto it will always be the chuunin selections + tournament OR Zabusa's arc as best and everything else as worst.
If you ask the same question about One Piece, there'll be more variety in the answers.
Jojo definitely has its high and lows, but even part 5 has its epic moments.
>>143176250
Dunno, Jojolion it's wonderful but there's something about Steel Ball Run that warms my soul everytime i read it.
>>143176665
haven't check read it, it's on my backlog. Hopefully it'll be the series I need.
S L E E P D E P R I V A T I O N
Mangaka regularly get 3 hours of sleep. It is enough to slowly drive a man insane, possibly resenting your own story for chaining you to a neverending work prison, etc. Not to mention all the negative effects on your body and mind. Novelists etc are babby-tier when it comes to how demanding their job is vs mangaka.
>>143174966
Maybe having 10+ years of other manga and life just changed your tastes.
>>143175086
That sounds like a pretty reasonable possibility.
>>143174966
>Berserk stopped being good once Femto merged the worlds, and turned to utter garbage once it became Boatserk and this loli harry potter island ripoff
The Sea God arc was short, chapter wise. And the parts at Falconia were good. And we've had less than 5 chapters on Elfland. I think it's too early to tell if Berserk has completely jumped the shark.
>>143177111
Also we never take into account EDITORS and surveys.
It's the reason why Hitsugaya and Trafalgar Law got so much exposition, the reason why Dragon Ball kept going with the same format despite Toriyama being bored of it, the reason why many new series keep on repeating the same formula.
Editors and ratings.
>>143175211
>>143176298
Up to about chapter 650 it was great and was probably the pinnacle of sports manga
>>143174966
>Berserk
>merge world, blame loli for ruining the manga
this same argument again. Did berserk fags became this delusional.
>reading all of the entry tier manga
man, this thread stink. why is OP always so shit?
>>143177343
Already said before, I think it'll all come down to the second eclipse and how will Miura make it.
It depends if he'll have the balls to make Guts' party pay hard.
>>143177111
I get 3 hours of sleep a night and still muster up the creative energy to make top grade shitposts on chinese imageboards. That's an awful excuse.
Holyland was fairly long running and that was one of the greatest manga I've ever read.
>>143177387
Thank you. Been looking for the answer to this for eons.
>>143174966
>this loli harry potter island ripoff
>witches didn't exist before harry potter
>>143175418
I am on bord with this. HSDK is never great. But it never gets worse, and thats something that is wortha lot once you sit down and read for hours.
Just a reminder that if you complain about the farming arc from Vagabond and Vinland saga, you are no longer allowed to cry when a story has no character development.
>>143176688
Steel Ball Run is really good.
And I don't really enjoy JoJo stuff at all past the references.
>>143174966
Vagabond is done with the farming.
Sangokushi did really well for 60 volumes, but it's not really an original story so there's that.
>>143178002
Each JoJo part is just really,really short. Once you get past the introductions and first few stand fights, it's only a few more fights until the the final battle.
Not to mention that the characters barely interact outside of stand fights. Part 6, particularly, was boring as fuck and SBR is pretty weak as well except for D4C.
>>143177999
I never got why people complained about the farming arc is Vinland, it was actually pretty hype towards the end and even the SoL-like parts were decent.
>>143177695
Writing shitposts is small time.
Try drawing a unique comic page for every single shitpost you make.
>>143175500
Shut the fuck up who can even read that shit.
>>143178263
It's bearable now that I can read them through and through, but it's just painful as a serialisation in both cases. Especially for Inoue's manga since his writing is weak so the content is guaranteed to be shittier in small doses, added to the past hiatuses.
>>143178181
>Each JoJo part is just really,really short.
Steel Ball Run is 24 volumes. It's pretty long
>>143178422
kek that series is the king of hiatuses and makes Berserk and even Bastard look like One Piece with it's releases.
Also why does no one complain about Yotsuba hiatuses?
>>143174966
>What is Glass Mask?
>What is JoJo?
>What is Sangokushi?
>What is HxH?
>What is Giant Killing?
I could keep going. Not to mention that some of those you mentioned were fine until well after 30 volumes, and that most of the really long-running series aren't even fully scanlated because by the time scanlation became common they were already too long for anyone to bother. Yes, a lot of stuff loses its appeal when it runs too long, but you really sound like you need to read more.
>>143178530
SoL manga.
>>143178530
Because it's a fucking SoL, it's not like you're waiting anxiously to find out what happens next.
>>143178522
SBR is the longest JoJo part but even then nothing really started happening until Valentine stole the corpse from Johnny, so it felt alot shorter than it was.
Not to mention a lot of the SBR stand fights were really weak and felt filler-ish like Chocolate Disco and Magenta Magenta
>>143178429
I guess it's just different for us. I really care about the characters, so watching them transform and become better people makes me happy. Berserk, Vinland Saga, and Vagabond all change dramatically as the series progresses, and I think that's what makes them great stories.
>>143178568
>>143178613
speak for yourself I want to see more Asagi
Because long running series are usually the result of writers who don't know how to end a story, or don't want to end a story that should have ended already.
>>143178711
I do too, but it's not like I can get anxious over it.
Does Gantz count as a good long runner? I mean, that last arc was really weak but everything else was was a 11/10 especially the Osaka arc.
Pacing.
I don't mind LO, but LO's problem was its insanely long tournament arc. The first 3-4 volumes of world building was top notch.
>>143178770
The concepts are great even in the third phase, but the last chapters are way too absurd for me.
>>143178770
>anything in Gantz
>11/10
>even above a 5/10
Gantz was fucking awful, commit sudoku.
>>143174966
>Dragonball stopped being good after Frieza.
Cell and Buu weren't as good, but they were still decent.
>over 30 volumes
>still epic
Gotcha covered there brother.
>>143178926
>Still lewd
fyp
>>143178926
It's only epic if they fuqq
>>143178855
>1st mission arc
>Everyone dying vs. Temple statue aliens
>Kei soloing the aliens in the next mission
>Nurarihyon
>Everyone getting fucked up by the italian statues immediately after Osaka
Gantz was literally HYPE:The Manga
>>143179007
Not him, but I dropped it after the temple statue aliens because everything up to then had been shit and that topped it off.
>>143174966
>longrunning
>Lone Wolf and Cub
Are you talking about volume count or runtime, nigger? Pick one and stick with it.
>>143179031
post-temple statue aliens is when Gantz start to get better and the MC starts to become slightly less of a shithead.
>>143178926
TLR was garbage though; He only really got epic lewd in Darkness.
>>143176105
Haki was a necessary evil for faggots like Smoker and Kizaru
>>143179170
This. You're making it really hard for people to discuss this with you, OP, when you say "long-running," then "30+ volumes," then name Lone Wolf and Cub as a counterexample anyway, and then say "50 or more volumes". You need to be consistent or there's nothing to talk about.
>>143178926
>epic
>>143178965
>fyp
>>>143178975
>fuqq
>>143179365
One Piece is a power level manga anyway, so they would've been beaten at some point, with or without Haki.
>>143179488
I was wrong, I meant series approaching 30 or so volumes, and I noticed most series over 30 volumes brick out.
Yes a few longrunners tends to have more than 30 good volumes (One Piece or Ippo for example) but I say it's harder to wrap conclude the series than just keep stretching it out all in the name of "worldbuilding" or increasing tension. It's why Nausicaa (the manga is so great) it tells a great story while having no fluff and a lot less filler while still being more epic in scope than longer series. LW&C doesn't seem that long compared to say One Piece or Ippo but 28 volumes (just short of 30 is still a longrunner).
I just listed 50 more as just a query asking if there'll ever be a 50+ volume (cause some people might consider 30 volumes long, but not LONG) wondering if there'll be a serious that keeps the same narrative drive, has no filler, and wastes no time or beats around the bush while being that long.
>>143179691
series*
I still enjoy Berserk and Vagabond, going from an 10/10 to a 9/10 is no big decline.
Jojo and HxH are still good too, Araki and Togashi are better than most battle shounen mangaka at keeping it fresh. For me, the worst thing in a long running battle or sports series is predictability, and they avoid it.
>>143179691
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think of long-running as a matter of time, not chapters/volumes. Like, LWC wouldn't be long-running, because it took just six years (and it only got like 120 chapters, they're just long chapters so the volume count adds up).
>>143178547
>Giant killing
Godspeed, anon
>>143179908
I mean do you consider Legend of the galactic heroes a long anime?
>>143178672
It has the strongest incipit of all the series imo
>>143180027
>incipit
wut
>>143180015
Wait, long or long-running? I'd actually say yes to both, but it was twice as long-running as LWC, and anime standards for both length and time duration are very different from manga standards, in the first place. A fucking three year anime is a long-running anime.
>>143174966
>The only worthwhile series that had approximately 30+ volumes is Lone Wolf And Cub and it had under that but close enough.
OP your pic is of an amazing series with 30+ volumes.
>>143174966
As quantity increases, quality decreases.
>>143180166
Last Order was shit though.
>>143179691
You're retarded. Most manga don't even get that far.
>>143174966
>Vagabond is boring now with that farming crap.
Shit taste detected.
Also someone with no knowledge about Musashi detected. Doing mundane stuff too made him so awesome and prevented his style from getting convoluted by adding religious nuances to it.
Just how to cut someone down, plain and simple.
>>143180117
Eh, I feel like if LotGH was a manga it'd have roughly give or take around 30 or so volumes. Assuming we're talking about the anime and not the LN
>>143180347
well of course, I'm talking about the ones that do get long. I'd actually love nothing more than a long running epic manga that never falters and wastes no time or lulls and has a deeply satisfying ending.
>>143180093
Not him but I think he means this
>>143180429
>well of course, I'm talking about the ones that do get long.
It's like asking why we don't get more monte cristos or War and Peace, man. Because it's hard as fuck to write stories like that. Let alone to draw all of it.
>>143180714
Doorstopper epics would be more comparable to like (pulling this out of my ass) but I don't know lone wolf and cub, or monster, or ashita no joe length while One Piece, ippo and assuming berserk gets that long would be more comparable in length (though i'm not gonna say quality, although u can say it if you want) those fantasy schlock with like 8 books (Eye of the world, Malazan, harry potter, those garbage)
>>143180863
>u
>can't get Wheel of Time's title right
>fantasy schlock
0/10 post
>>143177377
Damn so the manga industry isn't that much better than the american comic industry, what with all the way superheroes have to be shoehorned into some comics.
>>143177452
I thought the merging of the worlds was great anon, just that it never really followed up to it. It's telling that despite the world supposedly being worse than ever, people still think it got lighter in tone than before. It just shows how poor Miura is at showcasing how shit the world is now.
>>143181749
>Damn so the manga industry isn't that much better than the american comic industry, what with all the way superheroes have to be shoehorned into some comics.
Correction - WSJ isn't that much better. The industry itself is broad as fuck, so the question is just finding a publication that takes the kind of content you want to write.
Blade of the Immortal is over 30 volumes
And by your own qualifier, One Piece works, the timeskip in Volume 61, that means 60 volumes of gold (plus, it's been hyping itself back up in most recent arcs)
>>143177695
Except these people have been doing it consistently for longer than you've been able to type
>>143180863
Wheel of Time is fourteen books and over 11000 pages, and every book is fucking gold, the payoff was definitely worth all the years of waiting because each book just got better than the one before it with all the worldbuilding
>>143174966
Because all stories need to have an eventual goal and ending
>>143182145
I look at One Piece's situation this way. By the time it ends, it'll probably be about as long as Jojo once Part 8 is done. The "bad arc trilogy" is 20 volumes, which is just a little longer than an average Jojo part (16-18 volumes). So liking up until FI/PH/DR isn't really that much different than liking everything up until Stone Ocean.
>>143178530
>>143178568
>>143178613
Also people do complain about Yotsuba hiatuses, atleast on here
though people here complain about everything so there's that
Gintama
>>143183278
I would have agreed with this if it wasn't for the latest manga arc.
