![[USS]_Fate_stay_night_[Unlimited_Blade_Works]_(2014)_-_03_[BD_720p_H264_AAC].mkv_snapshot_12.29_[2016.06.21_22.26.17].png](https://i.imgur.com/ghHHMMU.jpg "[USS]_Fate_stay_night_[Unlimited_Blade_Works]_(2014)_-_03_[BD_720p_H264_AAC].mkv_snapshot_12.29_[2016.06.21_22.26.17].png")
>Illya can completely overwhelm Rin with 0 problems
>Leysritt can match a servant in strength
Okay, so how exactly are Einzberns bad at combat?
>>143143110
Magecraft is all about preparations
Any competent mage can stand toe-to-toe with much more powerful enemies when they've had the necessary time to prepare and the option to fight in a position where they are advantaged.
It isn't about powerlevels so much as it is about tools and practicality. Fate as a franchise is full of situations where the main characters ignorantly charge into an enemy mage's stronghold, get tossed around and then escape or make a comeback through pure plot convenience.
Ilya is a child of nature, even in older interviews she was maybe called the strongest magus within Fuyuki during the war. Being in Fuyuki gives her more power especially, since the land is in tune with her due to the grail. In the fourth and fifth wars, Ilya would be the greatest "Normal" magus.
However there was one obvious one within Fuyuki that was said to be far beyond her as well, who is also a grail. But its more of a situational thing to create such a beast, so she's not regarded all the time as better.
Despite Ilya being the top magus, it was said Tokiomi or Kayneth could give her a bad match up since they're more "a certain type". Rin charges in forwardly like a magical bomber, and falls on her face. Kayneth or Tokiomi however would recognize that thing is probably stronger than them, so they'd go the back route from the onset and remove her connection to nature which nerfs her power.
Sneaky types tend to go tactics, old typical magus people are more inclined to go the back route whenever they can with underhanded methods. Rin is more new age where she gets involved and believes in her power, but this can also fuck her up as shown several times in F/SN where she would just fight people directly.
>>143143403
>In the anime, there is a fight scene between Rin and Ilya, but are there any mages who could even win against Ilya in a magecraft fight in the actual Fate/stay night, Fate/Zero, or Fate/hollow ataraxia games? <ukw>
>Nasu: Frankly, she is the top mage in Fuyuki. Still, first-class mages would follow the "since she's a child of nature, just cut her off from the land first" plan, so it's not like she's invincible. Kayneth and Tokiomi could give her a run for her money. Rin is just relentless. But if we're talking about the dark girl who contaminates the land itself...
>Takeuchi: ...Sakura's magecraft skills are really fit for a boss, aren't they.
Worst than melvin
>>143143593
Don't bring /fgog/ shit in here
Don't bring /a/ shit in /fgog/
>>143143110
>Okay, so how exactly are Einzberns bad at combat?
Illya passed out after shooting one magic blast at Gil.
>>143143687
That's because he reflected the blast back at her with a mirror, and it hit her.
Read the game again
>>143143225
This. Preparation and matchups are key to battles between mages and even Servants, you can't just assume "the strong will beat the weak".
Kayneth is an incredibly competent magus, but Kiritsugu was basically the perfect counterplay to him both in his anti-magus skillset and cutthroat mentality.
Sasaki Kojirou is one of the weakest Servants out there, but put in the right position to limit his opponents' options, he was an indomitable barrier, enough to make even absurdly strong servants like Berserker struggle.
Avenger is THE weakest Servant in terms of fighting other Servants, but he actually synergizs extremely well with Bazett and her trump card, making the pair a very viable threat.
Et cetera, et cetera.
The idea that "you can't win a Grail War if you don't draw one of the three knight classes" is borne of similar ignorance. There's a reason Caster is almost always a significant threat in every Grail War.
>>143143110
Rin vs Illya was not even canon
>>143143225
>>143143751
So are we talking about Fate or batman?
>>143143403
How does one become a child of nature?
>>143143751
>Sasaki Kojirou is one of the weakest Servants out there, but put in the right position to limit his opponents' options, he was an indomitable barrier, enough to make even absurdly strong servants like Berserker struggle.
What?
>>143143733
Nope, she just faints.
>>143143110
>glasses sensei beat the shit out of saber, arguably the most powerful servant for 1 on 1 combat
Fate is for watching your waifu in HD or in sexy Prisma animation, anything else is just you being fucking mental
>>143143761
>written by Nasu for a ufotable series
>not canon
It's the closest you can get to it other than a remake of the VN.
>>143143895
Glasses sensei died and Saber didn't so it hardly matters
>>143143895
>Saber
>arguably the most powerful servant
>doesn't understand how Kuzuki's SNEKS work
Fuck off secondary.
>>143143862
What what? Did you not read the fucking VN? Assassin fought off every single Servant, he just needed Caster's help for Berserker.
>>143144084
Every one of these other than the Lancer one are really unfunny.
>>143144201
I like Berserker's.
>not doing labours
>>143144264
It feels like it misses the point, and is badly done.
>>143144380
What is the point then?
>>143143761
It was written by Nasu. He even defends it in one interview.
>>143143110
Plot convenience.
>>143143403
>Kayneth or Tokiomi however would recognize that thing is probably stronger than them
>Kayneth
>recognize that little girl is stronger than him
He would throw a bitch fit and die like a fag.
>>143144961
Kayneth is an expert when it comes to typical magus shit. He knows all about magus shit and how to handle it.
Where he runs into trouble is when it becomes non-magus or heretical shit.
>>143145020
Kayneth is a magus on the same level as Willy Wonka. And we know how Willy did vs a really good magus.
>>143145163
>Still, first-class mages would follow the "since she's a child of nature, just cut her off from the land first" plan, so it's not like she's invincible. Kayneth and Tokiomi could give her a run for her money.
>>143143110
They're not. See how effortlessly she can overpower Shiro
>>143145224
Could is the keyword. They would need to plan perfectly and get lucky. Of course they could win if everything worked well for them. We are talking about a series where Shirou kills Gil.
>>143145329
>We are talking about a series where Shirou kills Gil.
and look who is Gilgamesh in this case. Ilya is the top dog, Tokiomi and Kayneth are the ones who will take down the king, using simple magus knowledge. You can realize you're reaching here; the interview says both of those guys can give her a bad fight. Interview isn't saying "I mean maybe it COULD happen, maybe, if everything was perfect, but there's no way it'll happen since they're way too arrogant". Rather its implying this could very well happen.
>>143145665
They are not the protagonist with plot armor like Shirou. Nasu just said that she's not invincible and they could maybe beat her.
She also has a maid that can match a servant with B rank strength.
>>143145937
Reaching even harder to say interviews are surely wrong and there's no way she'd lose to those shits, okay then. Discussion over.
People will reach only the conclusion they want.
>>143145997
Do you need to be reminded of all the dumb shit Nasu said in interviews?
>>143145287
Anime?
>>143143505
Sakura is such fucking shit.
>>143143862
Sasaki Kojirou has the higher ground.
>>143147587
You're certainly rude
>>143145997
It's Nasu, where japanese teenagers can beat legendary heroes.
All he said is that she's not invincible. She's still by far the best magus to compete in the wars. Unless you count Sakura.
>>143143110
>>143147394
No anon, it's live action.
>>143150075
None of this was explained in the VN dumb fag. Stop justifying Nasu's shit writing.
![[UTW]_Carnival_Phantasm_-_11_[BD][h264-720p_AC3][4D74F474].mkv_snapshot_09.16_[2015.08.22_09.52.11].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VDHJQ4V.jpg "[UTW]_Carnival_Phantasm_-_11_[BD][h264-720p_AC3][4D74F474].mkv_snapshot_09.16_[2015.08.22_09.52.11].jpg")
>>143147394Carnival Phantasm.
I WANT TO DEITO AKIHA
>>143150195
I want to make someorigamiwith Akiha.
>>143143110
Fate is just a really poorly written series.
